Do you want Director's vision (OAR) or would you rather have the extra "goodies"? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm quoting this list from Home Theater Forum. I know there are alot of OAR fans, but this is disturbing. In addition to the T-3 scenes discussed in another thread, there are quite a few movies where the "Fullscreen" version contains a lot more "goodies".

Quote:
Originally posted by Matt Pelham; Orlando, FL @ Home Theater Forum
Here's a list of movies where the fullscreen version contains more nudity:

Abyss, The (confirmed: additional shot of Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio's breast in the resuscitation scene.. only amounts to one additional shot as the OAR has two breast shots with the full frame having three.)

Bonnie and Clyde (confirmed: Faye Dunaway's breast visible in the scene at the window in fullscreen version.)

Bully (confirmed: full screen unrated version contains a shot of male nudity, full frontal, from Nick Stahl, viewable via a mirror, and possible, unconfirmed, additonal brief female nudity.)

Carrie (confirmed: Sissy Spacek's full frontal nudity in shower scene, only topless and butt in OAR. Additonal info here.. sounds like one would need to find the CBS/Fox VHS and not the later MGM/UA which was reframed to remove the full frontal shots.)

Cat People (unconfirmed: possible extended views of Nastassja Kinski in fullscreen version (butt?).

Cheerleaders, The (confirmed: a few full frontal shots are matted out from the OAR The Cheerleaders Collection dvd but are present in the full frame VHS.)


Embrace of the Vampire (confirmed: extends to show Alyssa Milano's butt in first scene and an extra topless scene(s) later on. Both versions on current release though the unrated version is widescreen and the R rated version is full frame so it may or may not contain the aforementioned butt/topless shots on that fullscreen version.)

Fraternity Vacation (confirmed: "B-Queens Barbara Crampton and Kathleen Kinmont both had brief full frontal nudity in the fullscreen version of this movie, but the widescreen cropped the scene so that only breasts were visible."

Friday the 13th Part V: A New Beginning (unconfirmed: as posted by Julie Walker.. "may suffer from overmatting cutting off much of the nudity durring a key sex sequence in the woods". This would likely be full frontal nudity of Deborah Voorhees. Currently available on dvd in widescreen only.)

Ghost Story (confirmed: full frontal nudity of Alice Krige in open matte fullscreen version that is covered by the matte in the OAR version.

Hitcher in the Dark AKA Hitcher 2 (confirmed: current R1 dvd release is 1:85 (can't find confirmation on whether this is its correct OAR or if it was shot 4:3 and matted for the dvd release.. DVDAf classifies it as "Incorrectly Framed Transfer") which omits some nudity that was/is present in full frame versions (Midnight Video info).
Jackie Brown (confirmed: open matte version shows Bridget Fonda's butt at about the 1:10 mark. Currently available in OAR only.)

Kalifornia (confirmed: In the FF version, Michelle Forbes shows a very brief flash of her bush during a sex scene with David Duchovney. In both the widescreen and fullscreen, there is a fleeting glimpse of a tuft of her pubic hair seen in silhouette. A second later, she shifts her legs, and in the fullscreen version her bush is visible in light for a couple of frames.

Kama Sutra: A Tale of Love (confirmed: In the scene late in the movie where Indira Varma goes down on her knees in front of Sarita Choudhury and kisses her thigh, you get more breasts)

Killing Me Softly (unconfirmed: ? Unrated version contains both fullscreen and widescreen on dvd.)

Mischief (confirmed: extended footage from the waist down, full frontal, in the open matte version of Kelly Preston.. OAR and fullscreen. Not available on dvd yet.)

National Lampoon's Vacation (confirmed: as posted by MJKTool.. "There are basically three boob scenes here. The first is when the Psyco music starts and she (ed. note Beverly D'Angelo) is washing herself in the shower. In the fullscreen version the frame cuts off right beneath both her tits. In the widescreen it crops off on top of her tits so you dont see them. The second scene is when Clark opens up the curtains startling her. In both the widescreen & fullscreen versions you see both breasts fully bouncing up and down. In the fullscreen you seer her panties...widescreen you dont. The third and final scene is when she says "Claaark". In the fullscreen version the frame cuts off right beneath the nipple. The widescreen crops the tits out completely." Both versions are available on dvd seperately (full frame has been discontinued but is still currently available.)

Poison Ivy: New Seduction (confirmed: extended topless shots of Jamie Pressly not seen in OAR version..

Pump Up the Volume (confirmed: open matte version contains footage that extends to approximately Samantha Mathis's navel compared to the OAR version that barely shows her entire breast..

Ready To Wear (Prêt-Ã*-Porter) (confirmed: The film ends with a nude fashion show. The first model, a blonde with long straight hair is shown fully nude in both versions. However, the fullscreen version gives a closer view of her bush. The second model, a brunette with short hair ), barely shows her bush at all (side shot) and from a great distance in the WS version, but a nice close view is afforded in the FS version.

See No Evil, Hear No Evil (confirmed: Joan Severance's breasts in hotel shower scene at roughly the 1:08-1:12 mark.)

Showgirls (confirmed: The NC-17 full screen version contains an extra Elizabeth Berkley bush shot from a distance during the pole dance scene that is covered by the matte in the OAR version)

Single White Female (confirmed: Jennifer Jason Leigh's full frontal nudity in shower scene, and another.. only topless in OAR. )

Some Girls (confirmed: Patrick Dempsey full frontal nudity probable in fullscreen version that is matted out in OAR version.

Supernova (confirmed: extended Robin Tunney topless footage. Both versions on current release.)

Wings of the Dove, The (confirmed: as posted by Buck Turgidson, "Helena Bonham Carter's fully exposed breasts are clearly visible at the bottom of the frame when she sits on the bed in profile, after she first undresses, in the 4:3 version."

World Is Not Enough, The (confirmed: Sophie Marceau nip slip in fullscreen version)
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post #2 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's a link to the T3 screenshot comparison:

T3 Widescreen vs. Fullscreen Screenshots
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post #3 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Here's a link to the T3 screenshot comparison:
I highlighted my estimate of subset of the fullscreen image that is used in the OAR version. I can't believe this...I thought the fullscreen version would always be a subset of the OAR version. I wish I would have never seen that.
LL
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post #4 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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That looks pretty exact. Close enough for government work anyway. Open matte is one thing, but if it's going to be that extreme a difference, it pisses me off.
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post #5 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 11:54 AM
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When you look at the number of movies that are listed above versus the number of oar dvds that have been released, the errors are few and far between. The studios tend to get oar right the majority of the time so I can live with a few missteps here and there. Now, if that list was longer, then me might have something to be pissed about.

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post #6 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by AFH
When you look at the number of movies that are listed above versus the number of oar dvds that have been released, the errors are few and far between. The studios tend to get oar right the majority of the time so I can live with a few missteps here and there. Now, if that list was longer, then me might have something to be pissed about.
Keep in mind though that that list was only "missing nudity" - where the difference between formats caused a loss of nudity. It is not a complete list of movies with format "errors".
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post #7 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 12:33 PM
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Is there a list or examples of OAR movies that show more than their fullscreen counterparts.
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post #8 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 12:38 PM
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I mean, would you able to see these missed nudities in the SD channels' Pan & Scan presentations? if so, I rather have the OAR HD version and just buy full frame DVD of the movie.

"How come you haven't changed anything?"-Omar
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post #9 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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It depends if they pan & scan the widescreen version of just use the fullscreen version of the DVD. If its the fullscreen version, you'd get alot more material.
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post #10 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 01:20 PM
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i always thought Oar showed more than fullscreen. This sucks, like somebody else stated, i wish i never seen that
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post #11 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by neo0285
i always thought Oar showed more than fullscreen. This sucks, like somebody else stated, i wish i never seen that
I wish I hadn't either, but since I did, I figured I'd share;)
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post #12 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 01:42 PM
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As for the posters original question (directos version or extra goodies) I would rather see the super35 open matte first to get the extra goodies, then OAR, and finally the cropped version last.

Ajay
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post #13 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 02:12 PM
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I would rather see OAR first, but if it will benefit to see the Super 35 Open Matte version for a specific movie, then I would go with the Open Matte. But, I do like OAR better.

"How come you haven't changed anything?"-Omar
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post #14 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 02:22 PM
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The title of this thread could use a tweak.

As the person that brought this up in the T3 thread, I was expecting this thread to relate to a bare bones OAR release vs. a 4:3 with lots of supplemental material.

I am all for boobies and bush, but thats not what I thought of when reading the words "goodies" in the context of a DVD;)

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post #15 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I think the moderators might frown on "Boobies" in the title. :)

The nudity isn't the point as much as the zoom/crop of 2.35:1 - or more to the point - a 4:3 format that not only has more vertical info but also more horizontal info.
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post #16 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
The nudity isn't the point as much as the zoom/crop of 2.35:1 - or more to the point - a 4:3 format that not only has more vertical info but also more horizontal info.
Understood.

I have a feeling that having such words in the thread is going to run some of us afoul of the forum rules.

Then again, there have been other threads pertaining to porn and what not that make this one look pretty tame.

Back to the point, IIRC, Air Force One is another title where the full frame version has quite a bit more information.

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post #17 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 04:38 PM
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Is this really a comparison of OAR vs Fullscreen or a comparison of Zoomed and Cropped vs Fullscreen?

I can't imagine that the Fullscreen version has more footage per frame than the theatrical release - the true OAR.

It's one thing if the "widescreen" video is formatted incorrectly - but that's not comparing OAR to Fullscreen.
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post #18 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Guess it depends what the theatrical release showed. Anyone know if it was more like the fullscreen or the 2.35:1 DVD release?
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post #19 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 04:54 PM
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As far as t3 goes, someone that saw it twice said they saw all the "goodies" at the theater.
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post #20 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by deArgila
I can't imagine that the Fullscreen version has more footage per frame than the theatrical release - the true OAR.
Well, not exactly. http://www.cs.tut.fi/~leopold/Ld/FilmToVideo/ has a good review of why fullscreen video/dvd versions of movies might have more info than the OAR versions. In fact, I seem to recall reading on this site that James Cameron actually prefers the fullscreen version of T2 to the OAR!

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post #21 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 05:51 PM
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i always thought Oar showed more than fullscreen. This sucks, like somebody else stated, i wish i never seen that
Well, if you just want a film to fill your screen, then buy the fullscreen DVD and stretch/zoom it all you want to fit whatever your screen's aspect ratio is. If you want to see "more," then you'll have to buy widescreen or fullscreen DVDs based upon the way the movie was filmed. If you want to see boobies, find some porn.

The fact is that for 2.35:1 anamorphic films to be shown in 16:9 or 4:3 aspect ratios, pan and scan must be used. Most 1.85:1 films take a 4:3 frame and matte the top and bottom. "Super 35" films (e.g. Terminator 3) at an aspect ratio of about 2.35:1 are extracted from a 4:3 frame as well. The Recruit is one film I know of that was filmed in Super 35 and shown as 2.35:1 in theaters and then modified by the director to 16:9 for DVD.

The T3 widescreen DVD transfer is strange. There's a huge thread about it over at the Home Theater Forum for those curious about it.

Widescreen/aspect ratio info:
http://www.widescreen.org/aspect_ratios.shtml
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...reenorama.html

Quote:
I seem to recall reading on this site that James Cameron actually prefers the fullscreen version of T2 to the OAR!
I believe this is a very old quote that he made when the highest resolution home video option available was Laserdisc.
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post #22 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by jonathan_little
The T3 widescreen DVD transfer is strange. There's a huge thread about it over at the Home Theater Forum for those curious about it.
If this was an anomaly, than it's not that big a deal. And it's not that I want boobies (necessarily :) ) but I don't want an image that is heavily zoomed to make sure the boobies are out of frame either.

If the widescreen 2.35:1 DVD is much more zoomed than the 2.35:1 theatrical release - I'd love to know what jackass took it upon himself to "reshoot" the movie through his own editing.
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post #23 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
If the widescreen 2.35:1 DVD is much more zoomed than the 2.35:1 theatrical release - I'd love to know what jackass took it upon himself to "reshoot" the movie through his own editing.
I'd like to know this myself.
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post #24 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 07:06 PM
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I want to watch a movie the way it was made. I don't buy DVD's because of 'goodies'.

When will D* stop pushing HD-Lite while charging us for full HD? Digital input on a CRT is a reality, not a possibility.
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post #25 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheFerret
I want to watch a movie the way it was made. I don't buy DVD's because of 'goodies'.
If you buy the Widescreen version of T3, you won't get the goodies OR the way it was made. Fullscreen version is the only way to see the material that was in the theatrical release. That's screwed up.
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post #26 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 10:19 PM
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OAR

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post #27 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 10:21 PM
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post #28 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 10:26 PM
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no, but what he's saying that the Theatrical release and the DVD release may not contain the same information in the frame. If the DVD release and the theatrical release were 100% identical, I think this topic would be moot.
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post #29 of 34 Old 06-13-2004, 10:46 PM
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Problem is, some people aren't reading this thread before posting in it.
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post #30 of 34 Old 06-14-2004, 04:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I should've titled the thread 2.35:1 or fullscreen DVD - which is better. I didn't realize the widescreen DVD was not actually OAR when I started the thread. It sucks when the widescreen DVD is the worst transfer behind - Theatrical OAR, 16:9 HD version, Fullscreen DVD, SDTV version.
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