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post #721 of 12048 Old 02-13-2006, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jgNJ View Post

Your friend should get that in writing. Not to sound negitive, but I don't think they have the bandwith.


Not having the bandwidth I'm not 100% convinced. Here they removed all premium movie west coast feeds (10 digital channels I think) removed the analog HBO and Showtime channels and a number of PPV channels. So they do have room but just do not want to use it for a channel that shows HD some of the time.

I'm cannot recall what the ratios are:

How many digital channels = 1 HD channel

How many analog channels = 1 HD channel
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post #722 of 12048 Old 02-13-2006, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by willwhdtv View Post

Not having the bandwidth I'm not 100% convinced. Here they removed all premium movie west coast feeds (10 digital channels I think) removed the analog HBO and Showtime channels and a number of PPV channels. So they do have room but just do not want to use it for a channel that shows HD some of the time.

I'm cannot recall what the ratios are:

How many digital channels = 1 HD channel

How many analog channels = 1 HD channel

The reason I figured they don't have the bandwith is because in areas where they had the bandwith Comcast added a channel for UHD for the Olympics, but here they removed INHD2 to put in UHD. Because Comcast has partial ownship in INHD they would not pull the channel unless they had to.

I hope your right and the reason for this is that someone at the East Windsor head end doesn't know what they are doing.

I would guess the digital SD to HD is probibly about 4:1 but I'm not sure.
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post #723 of 12048 Old 02-13-2006, 12:40 PM
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I really hope they keep it. Battlestar Galactica looks AMAZING in high-def!

The quality of the Olympics broadcasts on UHD thus far are better overall vs. NBC-HD. The NBC feed kept dropping out, and the half-pipe competition looked like a poorly upconverted 480i image.
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post #724 of 12048 Old 02-13-2006, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willwhdtv View Post


I'm cannot recall what the ratios are:

How many digital channels = 1 HD channel

How many analog channels = 1 HD channel

Roughly 10-12 digital channels will fit in the space used by one HD channel. One 6Mhz analog slot can be used for 2 HD channels when converted to 256QAM.
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post #725 of 12048 Old 02-13-2006, 03:10 PM
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Any chance we'll see the Voom suite of HD channels?
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post #726 of 12048 Old 02-13-2006, 03:19 PM
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There's always a chance, but the probability of Voom on Comcast would be extremely low, at least for the near future.
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post #727 of 12048 Old 02-13-2006, 04:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by keenan View Post

Roughly 10-12 digital channels will fit in the space used by one HD channel. One 6Mhz analog slot can be used for 2 HD channels when converted to 256QAM.

One SD chan = ~1-2mbit/sec
One HD chan = ~10-20mbit/sec
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post #728 of 12048 Old 02-13-2006, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by HDHTPC View Post

One SD chan = ~1-2mbit/sec
One HD chan = ~10-20mbit/sec

Yes, but that's not what he asked.
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post #729 of 12048 Old 02-14-2006, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by balazer View Post

Comcast just started encrypting Discovery HD Theater where I live. It had been unencrypted, along with TNT, probably since launch. [Is this] A sign of things to come?


That may explain why COMCAST is challenging the SATs on the HD Lite issue, because that may be the beginning

I've got some nice open south facing property for a 10 ft C-band dish -just in case
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post #730 of 12048 Old 02-14-2006, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

One 6Mhz analog slot can be used for 2 HD channels when converted to 256QAM.

Dang if all Comcast analogs were shut down Comcast would have lots of bandwidth for HD. Just in my area we have about ~70 Analogs in the lineup. Since we have most locals already that would give them room for about 140 HD extra channels. Let's just hope they muse most of that BW for HD and not for SD . What about MPEG4 in Comcast? If they change would that also give them more room?
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post #731 of 12048 Old 02-14-2006, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Cucuy View Post

Dang if all Comcast analogs were shut down Comcast would have lots of bandwidth for HD. Just in my area we have about ~70 Analogs in the lineup. Since we have most locals already that would give them room for about 140 HD extra channels. Let's just hope they muse most of that BW for HD and not for SD . What about MPEG4 in Comcast? If they change would that also give them more room?

Yes MPEG4 would give them more room but I think analog to digital conversion is the route they are currently taking, digital conversion of just the 35 Expanded Basic channels alone would give them room for over 60 HD channels, including room for the Expanded Basic channels.

On our system, excluding the music channels, we still have more analog than digital channels.
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post #732 of 12048 Old 02-14-2006, 11:44 AM
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I thought the ratio for HD using 256 QAM was more like three HD channels in a 6MHZ slot.
HD uses between 13Mbps and 19.2Mbps per channel and if you use the correct sampling techniques you may be able to squeeze three or two with a few non-HD channels.
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post #733 of 12048 Old 02-14-2006, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulGo View Post

I thought the ratio for HD using 256 QAM was more like three HD channels in a 6MHZ slot.
HD uses between 13Mbps and 19.2Mbps per channel and if you use the correct sampling techniques you may be able to squeeze three or two with a few non-HD channels.

Yes, with rate-shaping you can get more than two HD channels in a 38.8Mbps 256QAM 6Mhz slice of frequency, but Comcast to date, has provided the full ATSC standard of 19.4Mbps to all of it's HD channels, whether or not the channel is running at that bandwidth or not, which means, no more than 2 HD channels per 6Mhz slice of spectrum. I'm sure in the future that may happen, in fact I think some Time/Warner systems are doing it but what happens if you have say 3 stations in one 256 QAM slot and one of them starts to put through a signal up to it's 19Mbps limit, the other two signals and the 19Mbps signal will all suffer. With sampling techniques, as you mentioned, it may not be noticeable, but I'm fairly certain Comcast's policy so far is to send the signal "untouched"(other than QAM conversion). Once they start to rate-shape and use other compression technologies, the dark realm of HD-Lite starts to raise it's ugly head.

For example, if FOX continues to run at 15Mbps and another multicasting station is providing no more than 12-14Mbps that would leave almost 9Mbps to put some SD channels in the same slot. To the best of my knowledge, Comcast is not doing this, yet. That's not to say they won't in the future.

Reclaiming analog channel spectrum for use with digital channels seems to be the way they are currently headed.
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post #734 of 12048 Old 02-16-2006, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by JimsArcade View Post

I really hope they keep it. Battlestar Galactica looks AMAZING in high-def!

The quality of the Olympics broadcasts on UHD thus far are better overall vs. NBC-HD. The NBC feed kept dropping out, and the half-pipe competition looked like a poorly upconverted 480i image.


Indeed it's amazing, but I was disappointed that the episodes weren't current. I thought that UHD was broadcasting the new episodes. Still, looked great, but not what I expected.
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post #735 of 12048 Old 02-16-2006, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Cucuy View Post

Dang if all Comcast analogs were shut down Comcast would have lots of bandwidth for HD.

Eventually, that's the plan.

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post #736 of 12048 Old 02-18-2006, 01:34 AM
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I am theorizing that COMCAST is in effect setting up a trap to let competitors get comfortable with HD lite or some dumbed down variation - and THEN when the HD television critical mass finally hits - COMCAST goes on an all out lets say something like " HIGH DEFINITION AS IT WAS INTENDED" or "HD W/O THE LITE" a marketing campaign I believe could bring a wave of new subscribers because it will be the actual TRUTH and not easily refutable by certain competitors
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post #737 of 12048 Old 02-18-2006, 03:35 AM
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As KenH noted, Comcast's plan is to eventually go all digital and turn off all the analog feeds. They do not do so now due to the cost of supplying cable boxes to all analog only subscribers and the fact that they do not want to anger the analog subscribers with cable ready sets who do not want a box. Once that is done there will be enough bandwidth for gobs of HD channels.
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post #738 of 12048 Old 02-18-2006, 07:48 PM
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Why doesn't Comcast replace/convert all the analog channels with digital?
and would think that Comcast could get rid of some or all the so called "digital music" channels.
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post #739 of 12048 Old 02-18-2006, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post

As KenH noted, Comcast's plan is to eventually go all digital and turn off all the analog feeds. They do not do so now due to the cost of supplying cable boxes to all analog only subscribers and the fact that they do not want to anger the analog subscribers with cable ready sets who do not want a box. Once that is done there will be enough bandwidth for gobs of HD channels.

Did I not read that Comcast will have a under $100.00 ( cost to Comcast ) Digital Box that they are planing to give ( lease ) to all the analog customers, then they can hurry up the switch over to all digital.
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post #740 of 12048 Old 02-18-2006, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTV-luver View Post

Why doesn't Comcast replace/convert all the analog channels with digital?
and would think that Comcast could get rid of some or all the so called "digital music" channels.

To just decide to convert all analog channels right now would likely cause a huge churn for Comcast. There are a large majority of Comcast customers who are analog only, and any sudden attempt to force a change would: 1) cause a huge number of service calls, which would create a large backlog and annoyed customers due to service problems (remember, with digital, an actual signal test will need to be done, and some wire upgrades will be likely for a lot of customers; and 2) cause a lot of people to switch just because that is the last straw with Comcast. Some people just don't want to mess with their cable service which works well for them, and they don't see any need to upgrade.

The music channels, in total, likely only use the bandwidth of 2-3 SD channels at the most. They are a very small user of space.

I think that Comcast should start moving some channels, maybe once a month, over to the digital side. Not a digital tier, just to digital only. Start with some of the lesser viewed, less important channels, say Style, Food, and such, and gradually force users to get a box. Advertise "just call us and we'll get you a digital box", and gradually move those folks over.

Of course, the HDTV fan in me says, move Lifetime, Nick, and ESPN to digital, and that would pretty much assure a quick transition. They would lose a huge number of customers, also.
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post #741 of 12048 Old 02-19-2006, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by nightowl View Post

To just decide to convert all analog channels right now would likely cause a huge churn for Comcast. There are a large majority of Comcast customers who are analog only, and any sudden attempt to force a change would: 1) cause a huge number of service calls, which would create a large backlog and annoyed customers due to service problems (remember, with digital, an actual signal test will need to be done, and some wire upgrades will be likely for a lot of customers; and 2) cause a lot of people to switch just because that is the last straw with Comcast. Some people just don't want to mess with their cable service which works well for them, and they don't see any need to upgrade.

The music channels, in total, likely only use the bandwidth of 2-3 SD channels at the most. They are a very small user of space.

I think that Comcast should start moving some channels, maybe once a month, over to the digital side. Not a digital tier, just to digital only. Start with some of the lesser viewed, less important channels, say Style, Food, and such, and gradually force users to get a box. Advertise "just call us and we'll get you a digital box", and gradually move those folks over.

Of course, the HDTV fan in me says, move Lifetime, Nick, and ESPN to digital, and that would pretty much assure a quick transition. They would lose a huge number of customers, also.

Hi,you really are a nightowl. Comcast is going to ADS (all digital simulcast)in a lot of markets,will definitely be an improvement.Problem is Time Warner is buying a good many of the Comcast markets(DFW metroplex for one).So,Comcast is dragging their feet a little so as not to spend the dough.

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post #742 of 12048 Old 02-19-2006, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV-luver View Post

Why doesn't Comcast replace/convert all the analog channels with digital?

Because most all of their customers would lose all of their channels.



Quote:


and would think that Comcast could get rid of some or all the so called "digital music" channels.

Why? They use very little bandwidth.

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post #743 of 12048 Old 02-19-2006, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightowl View Post

To just decide to convert all analog channels right now would likely cause a huge churn for Comcast. There are a large majority of Comcast customers who are analog only, and any sudden attempt to force a change would: 1) cause a huge number of service calls, which would create a large backlog and annoyed customers due to service problems (remember, with digital, an actual signal test will need to be done, and some wire upgrades will be likely for a lot of customers; and 2) cause a lot of people to switch just because that is the last straw with Comcast. Some people just don't want to mess with their cable service which works well for them, and they don't see any need to upgrade.

I think that Comcast should start moving some channels, maybe once a month, over to the digital side. Not a digital tier, just to digital only.

Note, that if they decide to switch to satellite, they will need boxes at every TV anyway, although, they could reduce their monthly bill, that is why I agree with your assessment. At least with Cable, there is the current/future option of going CableCard TV or DCA TV; something that Satellite can't match. But, many people aren't even aware of CableCard.

Here, they added Encore Movie Plex as an 'Enhanced' channel (meaning Digital, as opposed to 'Expanded' meaning Analog) great choice of tier names This was referenced in a postcard they sent, without saying what or how to get Enhanced service; I guess they hope people will call.

When we get our next prices/services card in March, effective April, I expect to see Enhanced service info. in print.

In Comcast ADS areas, I wonder which of these is the case?:

1. Requires new subs to have all boxes and/or CCs.
2. Offers Digital STBs by default, and only varies by request
3. Presents the customer with both options and hopes they take at least one box, for example.
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post #744 of 12048 Old 02-19-2006, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

Note, that if they decide to switch to satellite, they will need boxes at every TV anyway, although, they could reduce their monthly bill, that is why I agree with your assessment. At least with Cable, there is the current/future option of going CableCard TV or DCA TV; something that Satellite can't match. But, many people aren't even aware of CableCard.

Here, they added Encore Movie Plex as an 'Enhanced' channel (meaning Digital, as opposed to 'Expanded' meaning Analog) great choice of tier names This was referenced in a postcard they sent, without saying what or how to get Enhanced service; I guess they hope people will call.

When we get our next prices/services card in March, effective April, I expect to see Enhanced service info. in print.

In Comcast ADS areas, I wonder which of these is the case?:

1. Requires new subs to have all boxes and/or CCs.
2. Offers Digital STBs by default, and only varies by request
3. Presents the customer with both options and hopes they take at least one box, for example.

Boston is generally an ADS area. Movieplex is offer to anyone with STANDARD service and a box. I currently have digital platinum with premiere pack and basic so I do not get it
Besides with Digital plus what do you need it for?

As for what is happening,it is sort of business as ususal. Many folks with just analog continue to get just analog.

BTW I see ESPN2as the next HD channel for Comcast,along with full time coverage of the local RSN (in Boston)
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post #745 of 12048 Old 02-19-2006, 07:56 PM
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well, there are alot of dupicate channels either analog/digital or digital/digital
I don't new 4 MTVs, 3 OLN, and I love sports but I don't need 10 espn channel
and for HBO, Showtime, Cimemax, Starz and encore since I live in the west coast, I don't need the east coast feed.
theres about 40+ channels comcast could get rid of.
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post #746 of 12048 Old 02-19-2006, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

Because most all of their customers would lose all of their channels.

What is their plan then to meet the Feb. 2009 deadline? If I understand this right, by then most people would need new televisions or a cable box.
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post #747 of 12048 Old 02-19-2006, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by HDNair View Post

What is their plan then to meet the Feb. 2009 deadline? If I understand this right, by then most people would need new televisions or a cable box.

They will use a box like the Motorola DCT700 or something similar. This box is already being used in Calaveras County, CA

http://broadband.motorola.com/consum...oducts/dct700/
DCT700 All-Digital Set-top
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post #748 of 12048 Old 02-19-2006, 09:22 PM
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Well, I'll be happy to see analog go, not only because it will free up more bandwidth, but some of those analog feeds look generally crappy anyways. I assume channels like Cartoon Network are available digitally right off the Sat?

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post #749 of 12048 Old 02-20-2006, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDNair View Post

What is their plan then to meet the Feb. 2009 deadline? If I understand this right, by then most people would need new televisions or a cable box.

The analog cutoff does not directly effect cablecos.

In some areas, Comcast will gradually reduce analog channels, while adding digital cable and HD. Customers wanting the no longer available analog channles will have to get an STB or CableCARD tuner. The programming tier known as Limited Basic (10-15 channels) will remain in analog for quite some time, with analog versions of local DTV and a few select national channels.

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post #750 of 12048 Old 02-20-2006, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

I assume channels like Cartoon Network are available digitally right off the Sat?

I would assume the opposite: That in most cases, Comcast (or any other provider) will reduce the resolution and bitrate, just like they do today with their digital SD channels, in the interest of more channels to sell, or more services to sell.

Why do you assume the that won't be the case?
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