FOX-HD on D* should be LIVE now..? Yes, finally, as of 12/20/04. - Page 4 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 277 Old 10-31-2004, 04:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rkunces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 1,565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by carl033
I'm curious about what you are comparing. It certainly can't be PQ or customer service. Also, one of the advantages of satellite over cable is that you can take it with you when on vacation. Last week, at a rental in the Pismo Beach, CA area, I was able to compare the D* channel line up and PQ to the local cable offering. No comparison - the satellite blew the Charter Cable service away big-time. Plus I was still in the San Francisco Bay Area LIL spot beam, and got all my locals. If you want more details, I can give them to you.
My gut feel is that Fox HD and ABC HD will be here by early 2005. Be patient, and give D* an honest chance. In the meantime, enjoy the advantages available to you (ST, DNS, HD-Tivo, etc.) that cable may never be able to offer.
Couldn't agree more Carl. Directv while it takes a while to get their contracts in they get the job done. And with Directv's plan to add all these new channels in 05 in HD I'm willing to wait. Afterall my cable company can never offer the sports coverage that Directv has.......EVER
rkunces is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 277 Old 10-31-2004, 05:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Rakesh.S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,073
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally posted by carl033
. In the meantime, enjoy the advantages available to you (ST, DNS, HD-Tivo, etc.) that cable may never be able to offer.
I pay 7 bucks a month for a 2-tuner HD DVR here on CABLE

DNS isn't a big deal unless you live an area that can't get OTA

ST is the only thing i'm missing out on but I can catch most of what happened in HD on NFL Primetime anyway. I don't have 10 or 11 HDTV's showing all the games in HD at the same time.
Rakesh.S is offline  
post #93 of 277 Old 10-31-2004, 07:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jdspencer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 2,475
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Every area is different and thus each person has different options.

For me, my cable company doesn't offer enough HD to go for their HD DVR. I'm not sure they even have rolled out the HD version in this area. Our HD OTA is also very lacking, only ABC and PBS. I have DNS waivers for all networks. So the addition of Fox-HD on DirecTV will complete my network HD experience. Except for WB and UPN. :(
jdspencer is offline  
post #94 of 277 Old 10-31-2004, 08:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mx6bfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Delray Beach, FL
Posts: 6,891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally posted by Bschneider
FOX-HD E/W has now been changed from 86/87 to 88/89 when it goes full time. This change was made this afternoon.
ummmmmm Bob, do you have any extra cards I can borrow? :D

Ken, since it seems that the rumors about FOXHD not being live on D* are not true (which I agree with earlier post, never saw anything about E* vs D* in the news) can you tell us why there is a holdup?

HEY, you viewing dumbasses!

NOW!
NEW!
ALL NEW!

(insert name of show here)
NEXT!
8/9 PM ET
TUESDAY!
NEXT WEEK!
IN 2 WEEKS!


My Samsung 55" D8000 LED-3D tv settings.
mx6bfast is offline  
post #95 of 277 Old 11-01-2004, 01:04 AM
Member
 
edamon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by carl033
I'm curious about what you are comparing. It certainly can't be PQ or customer service. Also, one of the advantages of satellite over cable is that you can take it with you when on vacation. Last week, at a rental in the Pismo Beach, CA area, I was able to compare the D* channel line up and PQ to the local cable offering. No comparison - the satellite blew the Charter Cable service away big-time. Plus I was still in the San Francisco Bay Area LIL spot beam, and got all my locals. If you want more details, I can give them to you.
My gut feel is that Fox HD and ABC HD will be here by early 2005. Be patient, and give D* an honest chance. In the meantime, enjoy the advantages available to you (ST, DNS, HD-Tivo, etc.) that cable may never be able to offer.
not so much PQ but hassle-free one stop shopping.

Cable carries all the HD locals - directv carries 2.

and i miss my 6mbps cable modem..

I honestly don't see much of a PQ difference.. directv looks a little better
but not good enough to offset the modem and complete channel lineup.

my cable also didn't go out when it rained, lol.

As for giving Direct a chance.. I don't really have an option.. it's the
only option - unless this property decides to let adelphia back in (place
i moved to is only about 1 mile from where I was - they just made a
backroom deal with a company called rainbow - so it's either use the
community sat or get your own dish. The rainbow package was like
$20 and included all the 2nd rate channels and only like 20 of them.
If you wanted more programming - you had to sign up for direct - and
still pay them the $20, lol. So i just stuck a dish on my balcony.

-d
edamon is offline  
post #96 of 277 Old 11-01-2004, 09:33 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
leesweet's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern Virginia (South Riding), USA
Posts: 4,331
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Bschneider
FOX-HD E/W has now been changed from 86/87 to 88/89 when it goes full time. This change was made this afternoon.
Just late catching up here.... hm, this is weird... I know this matches the SD lineup, but a conspiracy theorist could think that they *knew* that they were gonna have to put up the temporary 88/89 first.... :D nah, must be a coincidence...

-Lee (See my profile for equipment.)
leesweet is offline  
post #97 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 06:00 AM
Advanced Member
 
perilous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Millstone (Monmouth), NJ USA
Posts: 719
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally posted by Ken H
Yes, and they are also misguided on this issue.
No disrespect Ken but aren't you stretching your logic just a little bit? It has been 10 months + since DirectV's "announcement" it was adding FOX-HD...

OK, well you heard it here first...I hereby announce that D-TV will add ABC-HD. The "fact" is that someday it WILL be added, so why not announce it now???
perilous is offline  
post #98 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 07:42 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 45,876
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally posted by perilous
No disrespect Ken but aren't you stretching your logic just a little bit? It has been 10 months + since DirectV's "announcement" it was adding FOX-HD...
No logic involved here. I've been told by impeccable sources that Echostar is not the reason why FOX isn't on DirecTV yet.

To the best of my knowledge, FOX & DirecTV are still in negotiations to add FOX HD. It's that simple.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

Ken H is offline  
post #99 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 07:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
herdfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Boondocks
Posts: 2,826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Ken H
To the best of my knowledge, FOX & DirecTV are still in negotiations to add FOX HD. It's that simple.
Negotiations for what? That's like negotiating with yourself. I understand that there are issues relating to common ownership, but as long as the deals are similar to what CBS and NBC have for carriage, there should not be an issue.

As has been said, they have had 10 months to get this done. What were they doing? Looks like my local will be up and running befor D*. Back when it was announced last January I would have bet $$$$$$ that D* would be up before my Sinclair owned station. I would have lost.

Please do not send me PM's asking for software! You will not get it.
herdfan is offline  
post #100 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 08:14 AM
Member
 
Cudahy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cudahy, California, USA
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Given the technical problems before and during the world series it seems much more likely to me that the "negotiations" are just a cover for fixing the technical problems.
Cudahy is offline  
post #101 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 08:32 AM
Senior Member
 
RDJR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cape Coral, FL, US
Posts: 436
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Negotiations??? Thanks for the info. Ken but that seems silly. They were able to negotiate the HD feeds for ST, the LCS and World Series but putting the channel up full-time is stuck in negotiations? This in addition to the fact that the channels are up on the birds. I'm not counting on anything until the Super Bowl at this rate.
RDJR is offline  
post #102 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 08:36 AM
Super Moderator
 
DrDon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 12,743
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Liked: 282
Quote:
Originally posted by herdfan
That's like negotiating with yourself.
While both companies have a common ownership component, they are still separate corporations. DirecTV is not a wholly-owned subsidiary of NewsCorp.
Quote:
Originally posted by RDJR
They were able to negotiate the HD feeds for ST, the LCS and World Series but putting the channel up full-time is stuck in negotiations?
Sunday Ticket is owned and controlled by the NFL, not DirecTV. MLB owns the rights to the LCS and World Series, so it's entirely possible those deals were struck with MLB. Retransmitting the full programming content of NY and LA television stations across the country is a whole different beast. Among other bugaboos is the issue of syndicated programming. The rights to all those daytime shows aren't always held by the Fox station in every Fox O&O market.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
DrDon is offline  
post #103 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 08:47 AM
Advanced Member
 
Compromise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Lake Tahoe, NV
Posts: 752
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Ken H
....To the best of my knowledge, FOX & DirecTV are still in negotiations to add FOX HD. It's that simple.
If this is truly the case, don't negotiations often fall apart in many deals? Since there is this possibility then wouldn't you say that the press release 10 months ago saying it was a done deal and we would get is was a "misrepresentation"? (NOTICE" I did not use the "R" word.)


Boat name: Summer Compromise; Power train: twin 490 HP (w ATI Prochargers); A/V: sufficient
Compromise is offline  
post #104 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 09:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
herdfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Boondocks
Posts: 2,826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by DrDon
The rights to all those daytime shows aren't always held by the Fox station in every Fox O&O market.
Good point. And more related to FOX than others, but a very simple fix is possible.

Just turn the feeds on for primetime FOX owned programming and off afterwards. Just like the baseball games.

FOX's new season starts Sunday.

Please do not send me PM's asking for software! You will not get it.
herdfan is offline  
post #105 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 09:24 AM
Advanced Member
 
RScogland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 972
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It's election day, so lets have a vote. Please choose one of the following:

Ken H - this canditate is the forum moderator with a proven track record and credible sources. Ken is running on the longstanding "in negotiations" platform, commonly used by DirecTV.

Other - "Other" will sum up the forum members with no sources, who have decided Ken H is wrong, because they know he must be wrong. "Other" is running on the "nuh-uh" platform, which has been succesfully used on playgrounds for decades.

I will not divulge who I am voting for. However, maybe if enough people vote for "Other" and throw in a few taunting jabs, DirecTV and FOX will speed up negotiations and give us the channel faster.

(All in fun)
RScogland is offline  
post #106 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 09:37 AM
Super Moderator
 
DrDon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 12,743
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Liked: 282
Quote:
Originally posted by RScogland
the "nuh-uh" platform, which has been succesfully used on playgrounds for decades.
I assume you're including Washington, DC, in your definition of "playgrounds." :)

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
DrDon is offline  
post #107 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 10:08 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
leesweet's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern Virginia (South Riding), USA
Posts: 4,331
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
In a somewhat-relevant aside, whenever there are 'negotiations', there are lawyers, and there anything can and does go wrong, meaning off schedule. I'm not surprised things are taking longer, especially when the results of this could be the basis for other agreements for other carriage agreements with/for Fox-HD down the road. This is not a one-shot thing. (I am not a lawyer, but my father was...)

-Lee (See my profile for equipment.)
leesweet is offline  
post #108 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 10:23 AM
Advanced Member
 
bapenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Easton, PA
Posts: 699
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm sure this was mentioned, I didn't read through the whole thread. But my DirecTV bill now shows FoxHD on it along with CBSHD and NBCHD. Of course, I am charged 0 dollars for this since I am not in "range" to pick up OTA signals.

The Silver Screen Cinema
Co-Optimus (Co-Op Gaming)
The Weekly Release (Game, DVD, and Movie Release Dates)
bapenguin is offline  
post #109 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 10:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jdspencer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 2,475
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Could it be that DirecTV and Fox want to make sure they have all their ducks in a row so that E* can't sue later?
jdspencer is offline  
post #110 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 11:02 AM
Member
 
AMorrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Grapevine, TX
Posts: 123
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by DrDon
Among other bugaboos is the issue of syndicated programming. The rights to all those daytime shows aren't always held by the Fox station in every Fox O&O market.
Can you explain why this would be different for Fox compared to CBS/NBC? As an example, I can now watch 'Entertainment Tonight' on WCBS at 1830 CT instead of waiting for my non-O&O ABC affiliate to show it at 2305 CT.
AMorrison is offline  
post #111 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 11:10 AM
Super Moderator
 
DrDon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 12,743
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Liked: 282
It's not different, there's just a lot more OF it on the NY/LA FOX stations than WCBS/KCBS and a few more markets involved.

As for "Entertainment Tonight," it's a Viacom property as is anything from Paramount Pictures or King World. I would imagine Viacom would be all too thrilled to have your ABC affiliate cancel the contract if they're airing it that late.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
DrDon is offline  
post #112 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 12:41 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 45,876
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally posted by herdfan
Negotiations for what? That's like negotiating with yourself. I understand that there are issues relating to common ownership, but as long as the deals are similar to what CBS and NBC have for carriage, there should not be an issue.

As has been said, they have had 10 months to get this done. What were they doing?
Probably paying very close attention to Justice Department documents covering the special agreements made for this unique situation that allowed News Corp. to buy DirecTV.

As I've said before, when you're on the outside looking in, it's real easy to say 'what's the big deal'. When your tail end is on the line, it's another story.

The lawyers are involved, commitments were made to the US Government. End of story.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

Ken H is offline  
post #113 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 12:42 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 45,876
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally posted by Cudahy
Given the technical problems before and during the world series it seems much more likely to me that the "negotiations" are just a cover for fixing the technical problems.
Wrong.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

Ken H is offline  
post #114 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 12:43 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 45,876
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally posted by Compromise
If this is truly the case, don't negotiations often fall apart in many deals?
Yes, they do, but in this case it's not if, but when the deal gets done.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

Ken H is offline  
post #115 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 01:09 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
leesweet's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern Virginia (South Riding), USA
Posts: 4,331
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by bapenguin
I'm sure this was mentioned, I didn't read through the whole thread. But my DirecTV bill now shows FoxHD on it along with CBSHD and NBCHD. Of course, I am charged 0 dollars for this since I am not in "range" to pick up OTA signals.
Mine has it also, but it's nothing to do with range. You have this on your statement if you have the "Network: Fox HD_*" flag on your D*.com account. You have *that* ever since they ran your account through the qualifying processor and found that you qualified for it (or you called or got waivers or whatever).

The new news from this month's statement is that it shows an October 12 (I think, from memory here...) "pro-rate" date for this, meaning they ran (mine, at least) 8 days before the original planned go-live date of 10/20. :)

Point is, of course: if you have that flag, 88 and/or 89 will be up the second the switch is thrown. (Whenever that happens...)

-Lee (See my profile for equipment.)
leesweet is offline  
post #116 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 03:41 PM
AFH
AVS Special Member
 
AFH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 2,988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally posted by herdfan
Good point. And more related to FOX than others, but a very simple fix is possible.

Just turn the feeds on for primetime FOX owned programming and off afterwards. Just like the baseball games.

FOX's new season starts Sunday.
No my friend, Fox's new season starts on Thursday night Nov 4 with North Shore and then my favorite, oh hell yes, The OC. I can't wait to see The OC in hd, rather, that would be Fox's version of hd which is something between Fox Widescreen and hd!

"I'm going to call them scallywags" - Ollie

Xbox Live: Stunt1on1
AFH is offline  
post #117 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 04:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
herdfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Boondocks
Posts: 2,826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by AFH
No my friend, Fox's new season starts on Thursday night Nov 4 with North Shore and then my favorite, oh hell yes, The OC.
My bad. I was referring to the start of Arrested Development.:D

Please do not send me PM's asking for software! You will not get it.
herdfan is offline  
post #118 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 04:52 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 45,876
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally posted by RScogland
It's election day, so lets have a vote. Please choose one of the following:

Ken H - this canditate is the forum moderator with a proven track record and credible sources.
You'd think this would have some impact on those who question me. It's not like I make this stuff up.

As for the track record, I can remember one instance (out of 17,000+ posts, over 5 years) when I was given info I stated as a fact that turned out incorrect. It was about ESPN HD being on Dish Network from inception. And on that issue, I was one among many with inside sources that were misguided initially. I did get accurate info a few days before the premier, which I relayed to the forum.

What's the expression, don't cast pearls before swine.....

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

Ken H is offline  
post #119 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 08:55 PM
Member
 
AMorrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Grapevine, TX
Posts: 123
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by DrDon
It's not different, there's just a lot more OF it on the NY/LA FOX stations than WCBS/KCBS and a few more markets involved.
I'm still confused then. Are you saying that they have to negotiate some kind of agreement for each syndicated show in each market that they cover?

Quote:
As for "Entertainment Tonight," it's a Viacom property as is anything from Paramount Pictures or King World. I would imagine Viacom would be all too thrilled to have your ABC affiliate cancel the contract if they're airing it that late.
Seems logical. There's not really any value to a show like "Entertainment Tonight" after the prime time shows that it tends to highlight have aired. I assume that our ABC affiliate is hanging on to it just to keep it out of the hands of one of the other stations.
AMorrison is offline  
post #120 of 277 Old 11-02-2004, 09:31 PM
Super Moderator
 
DrDon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 12,743
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Liked: 282
Quote:
Originally posted by AMorrison
Are you saying that they have to negotiate some kind of agreement for each syndicated show in each market that they cover?
If it's a syndicated program they don't have the rights to in a particular market, then yes, the rights-holding station and/or the syndicator will have to sign off on it, depending on how the contract is written. But given the small number of HD-enabled subscribers in each market, and the closed-end availability (only until LIL is available.. 2 years or so) it's probably not THE hurdle.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
DrDon is offline  
Closed Thread HDTV Programming

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off