'Supernatural' on The CW HD (& syndicated on TNT HD) - Page 82 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2431 of 2445 Old 11-18-2015, 12:42 AM
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I understand the point you're making, but the peace Jasmine(?) was offering in Angel was not exactly free was it? Wasn't it the peace of a tyrant?
Maybe... that was the argument posed in that episode... Jasmine promised peace on earth, with the sacrifice of "free will" to some degree and the fact that she essentially ate people to live... BUT she countered that her people-eating was FAR less than the number of people who were killed by other people every year anyway... so it's an interesting argument.

In Supernatural world, I could see the dilemma being that the Darkness might skew towards the evil angle BUT what if she fixed some problems of the world like maybe stopped wars and hunger and homelessness... but it would all be for her amusement... and the counter is that God lets you have free will, but that means he also allows the demons and his angels to possess people and kill them and fight holy wars and such.

There's lots of room for a psychological examination here.

Kind of like the stories, and Supernatural did one too, of "Death taking a holiday" and nobody dies... which sounds cool, until you realize people still suffer mortal injuries so instead of dying and finding peace in the afterlife they are forced to live forever in torment with the injuries that should have killed them. Which is better? Limited mortal life where you die randomly and tragically OR unlimited eternal life where you feel pain all the time?
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post #2432 of 2445 Old 11-18-2015, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post
Maybe... that was the argument posed in that episode... Jasmine promised peace on earth, with the sacrifice of "free will" to some degree and the fact that she essentially ate people to live... BUT she countered that her people-eating was FAR less than the number of people who were killed by other people every year anyway... so it's an interesting argument.

In Supernatural world, I could see the dilemma being that the Darkness might skew towards the evil angle BUT what
if she fixed some problems of the world like maybe stopped wars and hunger and homelessness... but it would all be for her amusement... and the counter is that God lets you have free will, but that means he also allows the demons and his angels to possess people and kill them and fight holy wars and such.

There's lots of room for a psychological examination here.

Kind of like the stories, and Supernatural did one too, of "Death taking a holiday" and nobody dies... which sounds cool, until you realize people still suffer mortal injuries so instead of dying and finding peace in the afterlife they are forced to live forever in torment with the injuries that should have killed them. Which is better? Limited mortal life where you die randomly and tragically OR unlimited eternal life where you feel pain all the time?
Although they make great canvases for short form art exploring the concepts, I've always seen it as a way to highlight the hook in those baited arguments. The key in both those situations is the asymmetric balance of power -- someone is trading away both an item of value and any potential to influence future amendments -- once the deal is struck, nothing prevents the tyrant/overlord/liberator from altering the rules away from the original deal or the perception of the original deal. The current arrangement with God - mostly hands-off with deliberately encouraged free will -- is about the best deal you can expect with that great a difference in power/control between parties.

Nothing is stopping either Jasmine or the Darkness from turning cruel, malicious, or just bored, capricious and uncaring -- and there would be nothing anyone could do about it - so why voluntarily enter into a contract like that? It's like getting into a Time-Share, you are never getting out...

Other examples abound: "Death by Roo-Roo!" [NSFW joke] or


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post #2433 of 2445 Old 11-23-2015, 05:02 PM
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Just for random levity... since Castiel is watching a lot of TV now... they need to have an episode where he is watching Doctor Who and comments that one of the people in an episode looks like Crowley... then have Crowley give an evasive response to that.
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post #2434 of 2445 Old 11-24-2015, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post
Just for random levity... since Castiel is watching a lot of TV now... they need to have an episode where he is watching Doctor Who and comments that one of the people in an episode looks like Crowley... then have Crowley give an evasive response to that.
You could have Castiel watching any sci-fi show in the last twenty years (or any TV action show for that matter) and you could get the same effect. Mark Sheppard pops up in nearly everything on television!


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post #2435 of 2445 Old 11-24-2015, 10:16 AM
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You could have Castiel watching any sci-fi show in the last twenty years (or any TV action show for that matter) and you could get the same effect. Mark Sheppard pops up in nearly everything on television!
Heck, they could riff on VIP.

After the reference to "the guy that looks like Crowley", you have have some dialog along the lines of:

Castiel: "...and further, what exactly is the appeal of Pamela Anderson? She seems...unskilled..."

Dean: "I can think of a couple of things that appeal to me...Try Baywatch. You'll not only see her in her element, but it's got 'The Hoff' in it. Everything is better with 'The Hoff'...and Burt Reynolds...and bacon..."

Dean (thoughtfully): "Great, now I need a sandwich..."

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post #2436 of 2445 Old 11-24-2015, 05:30 PM
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See... there's just so much potential! Sheppard is on seemingly every show I watch, eventually, so the possibilities are truly endless!
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post #2437 of 2445 Old 12-10-2015, 02:09 AM
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Did I miss something, or did they just rewrite the back story on Lucifer and the cage? I thought he was locked up with Michael, in a "cage" that wasn't bars, wasn't in hell, but was like a separate dimension only accessible using the rings of the horsemen of the apocalypse. This seemed just a bit too much of a retcon. I would think that the writers would have access to the DVDs, so they could go back and see what they wrote earlier.

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post #2438 of 2445 Old 12-10-2015, 04:46 AM
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Haven't watched this yet, and likely won't until after the weekend, but sounds like it. They might have kept the other three rings, but I thought they were only borrowing Death's. Then Dean went and killed Death - who I thought was previously described as: un-killable*; existing before God; and planning to reap Him. So if his ring disintegrated with him, the new canon has to ignore the previous canon.



* Is there is a difference emerging between immortal and something truly un-killable? It seems like immortal has kind of been diluted (across genres) to just mean: does not die naturally, since we kill immortal beings left and right.


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post #2439 of 2445 Old 12-10-2015, 10:00 AM
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Well I was kinda hoping they bring back the missing brother too. Overall seems like kind of a stretch. I'll give them a little room to explain it, but don't like rewrites of history either.
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post #2440 of 2445 Old 12-10-2015, 07:14 PM
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My two-word episode review:

Spoiler!
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post #2441 of 2445 Old 12-10-2015, 10:39 PM
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My two-word episode review:

Spoiler!
seriously. Emily Swallow holy ****.
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post #2442 of 2445 Old 12-10-2015, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post
Did I miss something, or did they just rewrite the back story on Lucifer and the cage? I thought he was locked up with Michael, in a "cage" that wasn't bars, wasn't in hell, but was like a separate dimension only accessible using the rings of the horsemen of the apocalypse. This seemed just a bit too much of a retcon. I would think that the writers would have access to the DVDs, so they could go back and see what they wrote earlier.
Remember, Lucifer said when the Darkness appeared, the cage was damaged. That's probably not even the original cage. It's not the same cage Sam was seeing in his visions. It was probably just something Lucifer conjured to trick Sam into coming to see him.
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post #2443 of 2445 Old 12-11-2015, 01:03 PM
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My two-word episode review:

Spoiler!
Definitely. It was well-featured in the episode

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post #2444 of 2445 Old Today, 04:45 AM
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I thought the last episode was pretty good. At first when I saw Claire I thought they were going to loop back to Castiel but they kept it discrete as a Jody/Claire/Alex episode.
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post #2445 of 2445 Old Today, 05:10 AM
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This episode just proved how good it can be when they don't have Crowley and the same old characters doing the same thing. Much better this week.


That scene at the kitchen table was awesome. Dean had me in stiches with his comments.

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