Arrested Development - Creator Hurwitz says "NO" to Showtime. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 01:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Looks like they're replacing it with a Prison Break repeat on 10/10. :-(
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post #2 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 04:55 AM
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I cant believe FOX would actually renew the show only to cancel it after 3 episodes. Besides, last I checked I thought there was baseball on that night?

I vote for canning The War at Home and moving Arrested back to 830 on Sundays.
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post #3 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 05:49 AM
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Lots of Fox shows go on hiatus in October due to baseball.

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post #4 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 06:23 AM
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Arrested Development is in trouble, again, whether it's being replaced or just on hiatus for October with other shows. #86, was it?

My question is, why are people not watching it!? It just makes me so angry, damn it.
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post #5 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 06:44 AM
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damn, not good news. more people need to watch this great show
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post #6 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 06:55 AM
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I'm of the opinion that Nielsen families are more morons. Apologies to any families named Nielsen, I'm referring to the families they compile the ratings from. ;)
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post #7 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raln
Arrested Development is in trouble, again, whether it's being replaced or just on hiatus for October with other shows. #86, was it?

My question is, why are people not watching it!? It just makes me so angry, damn it.
I doubt this show will get cancelled, it keeps winning emmies (as it should) and there are a lot worse shows on fox that continue year after year. if there's a place for Stacked on Fox's schedule, there can be one for AD.
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post #8 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 07:13 AM
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Yeah, that's why The Simpsons has been on for 15 years. Stupid comment.

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post #9 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 07:27 AM
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I tell you those guys that run networks are the biggest idiots. I dont like to bad mouth too many folks publically but they do this stuff every year. A show works in a particular time slot, they move it and it gets killed. Very few shows that move time slots do better than their previous ones. If it aint broke, dont move it.

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post #10 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bidger
I'm of the opinion that Nielsen families are more morons. Apologies to any families named Nielsen, I'm referring to the families they compile the ratings from. ;)
I've said this before but I think the Nielson ratings system is broke. Its not really capturing what America is watching. They are making adjustments but you talk about a broken monopoly. Not only does this make or break shows, it also dictates on where billions of advertising dollars are spent. Talk about power in the hands of the few who are not even DVR users.

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post #11 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by brewer4
I've said this before but I think the Nielson ratings system is broke. Its not really capturing what America is watching. They are making adjustments but you talk about a broken monopoly. Not only does this make or break shows, it also dictates on where billions of advertising dollars are spent. Talk about power in the hands of the few who are not even DVR users.

Why would advertisers be concerned with that DVR users are watching? We skip the commercials anyway.
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post #12 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer4
I tell you those guys that run networks are the biggest idiots. I dont like to bad mouth too many folks publically but they do this stuff every year. A show works in a particular time slot, they move it and it gets killed. Very few shows that move time slots do better than their previous ones. If it aint broke, dont move it.

So -- talking only about ratings -- what time slot did "AR" ever work in?

It averaged 5.9 million viewers last year, (in 101st place, behind such ratings disasters as "Complete Savages", "Clubhouse" and "The Contender").

Its audience actually declined about 5% for the year. So even those few who watch the show are slowly drifting away.

What would you have the suits at Fox do? Send goons with guns to every Nielsen home and force people to watch "AR"?
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post #13 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 10:30 AM
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I wish Fox would cancel this show and move on already.

I'm tired of being beaten upside the head about how great this show is and how no one is watching. Every season, there's anxiety or a campaign being started to get it renewed. We're what, a whole 2 episodes into the season? Please, Fox...This is one show you NEED to cancel.

Same thing goes for The Office on NBC. The quirky crap doesn't work..just go the traditional sitcom route till you find a hit..
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post #14 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 10:38 AM
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FOX kept this afloat because it is praised by critics and is award-worthy. It's not like they don't have room in the schedule.

If they're going to cancel anything, it should be Major League Baseball - that jumped the shark about 20 years ago. :)
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post #15 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 10:38 AM
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I can't get into the show myself.

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post #16 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 10:47 AM
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Actually lots of shows do better when they are moved to a new night... X-Files comes to mind, started out as a Friday night show, they moved it to Sunday at 9, and look what happened. Can't think of any others, but I'm sure there's plenty of NBC shows that started off on a night and then were moved to their "Must See Thursday" and took off... I think Friends was always Thursday, but was ER?

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post #17 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djsmokyc
Why would advertisers be concerned with that DVR users are watching? We skip the commercials anyway.
Thats actually not entirely correct. They have shown that a good portion do not skip commercials and most still breeze/watch commercials. I dont remember the links to the ariticles but I found it interesting that commercials for the most part are still partially seen.

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post #18 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 11:09 AM
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Here's an interesting read.

http://www.oligopolywatch.com/2003/12/06.html

Broadcast grids or shelves

Broadcast media are limited resources. The airwaves can be divided into only a certain number of channels (frequencies) in each location. Separate frequency ranges are reserved for FM, AM, VHF, and UHF broadcasts, with other frequencies reserved for other forms of radio communication. The channels themselves are, in theory, leased competitively by the national government.

These channels are one dimension of the grid, the shelf system, that is the basis of broadcast media. The other dimension is based on the clock, the other limiting factor. The day is arranged into time slices, and those time slices compose the shelf locations available.

In fact, there are two broadcast grids, one imposed on the other. One grid is for content (programming); the other grid is for advertising. For the viewer or listener, what matters is the content grid, that is, when each program will start or stop. This grid is documented by the TV section of your newspaper or by your TV Guide. For viewers, advertising is what comes between segments of the program. For the stations and advertisers, the advertising grid is the important thing, interrupted occasionally by programs.

There was a time not ago when the three networks, ABC, NBC, and CBS were the whole show in television. There were VHF channels, and educational channels, yes, but these were sideshows only. The real action was on the three networks.

The networks were cash machines. They had the shelf space so desired by everyone, advertisers, program creators, and audience. Networks attempted to get the maximum value out of each slot, much like supermarkets getting the best per-inch return on their shelves. But with broadcast, the shelf space is severely limited. There are only 48 half-hour slots per day, and only six prime-time slots each evening.

While it is impossible to predict in advance what shows will be hits and which ones will miss, a large part of the game that executives think they can affect is in making marginal improvements. Every share point means millions of dollars to the networks, so the executive who can inch up the ratings of a few shows looks like a genius. To move any program slot up one audience share point is a seemingly attainable goal. For this reason, the networks are constantly making adjustments, so they can charge more money for the important slots, the commercials.

One of the most common is moving a show from one slot to another; this is done sometimes in hope of gaining more audience in the new slot; more often it is done in order to anchor a set of slots to allow for improved ratings for neighboring shows, just like the arrangement of shelves in a supermarket can help or hurt sales.

An example is the endless succession of TV shows NBC has placed between its two Thursday night hits, Friends and ER. Shows between those two always get an artificial boost in the ratings, at least at first. The few decent ones get moved to other night to set up new programming anchors (usually in vain). The majority start off strong and then fail. Nevertheless, NBC keeps slotting in new programs and making profits, no matter how eventually unpopular those programs end up being.

Of course, the growth in popularity of cable complicates the picture. The major networks are now competing not only against each other, but against a host of other choices. While rarely do these cable stations beat out any of the broadcast stations, they are predominant in a collective sense. The general slipping of network ratings makes their advertising slots less valuable. It also gives advertisers a wider range of choices, so there is more overall competition for advertising dollars.

The big network oligopolies have fought this in several ways. First, they own many of the cable channels, so they can catch lost revenue. They can, for example, build packages that involve both wider network advertising and les expensive ads on specialty channels. Second, they have restructured the advertising grid. Advertisements on TV eat up increasing percentages of program time. As one anti-TV on-line source puts it:

The American Association of Advertising Agencies (AAAA) and the Association of National Advertisers, Inc. (ANA) released their annual Television Commercial Monitoring Report showing the level of TV clutter. This clutter is defined as "commercial time, public service announcements, public service promotions, promotions aired by broadcast and cable networks, program credits not run over continuing program action, and 'other' unidentified gaps within a commercial pod."

The AAAA report showed that in the primetime slot, non-programming time on network television was 16:43 minutes per hour. The daytime level of advertising was 20:53 minutes per hour. Network news showed 18:53 minutes of commercials per hour and late night news aired 19:06 minutes of ads per hour. The most "cluttered" program in all of TV, according to the report, was ABC's Good Morning America.

Not only are there more ad minutes per hour, but there even more ads. Commercials have gone from a standard one minute in length to half-a-minute to 15 seconds. That way, they can charge higher fees per minutes, split up among two or four advertisers. It has the effect of cramming boxes on a shelf sideways, so that more of them can front the customer.

The network oligopolies have found a way to get around their biggest limitation (available time slots) by redefining that time. It's a way of creating added value where none existed before. And with lax FCC enforcement of any rules about ratios of programs to ads, we are slowly approaching the Platonic ideal of all commercials all the time. Oh, we have that already -- with infomercials.

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post #19 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djsmokyc
Why would advertisers be concerned with that DVR users are watching? We skip the commercials anyway.
Product placement. More and more advertisers are putting their "ads" in the shows itself.

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post #20 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ucsbgaucho
Actually lots of shows do better when they are moved to a new night... X-Files comes to mind, started out as a Friday night show, they moved it to Sunday at 9, and look what happened. Can't think of any others, but I'm sure there's plenty of NBC shows that started off on a night and then were moved to their "Must See Thursday" and took off... I think Friends was always Thursday, but was ER?
Seinfeld comes to mind as an example.

Arrested Development would have done better on HBO.
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post #21 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MnGuy
Lots of Fox shows go on hiatus in October due to baseball.
But this one isn't due to baseball.
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post #22 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 11:15 AM
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I really hate to say this, because I do love the show, but the last episode stank up a storm.

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post #23 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakesh.S
I wish Fox would cancel this show and move on already.

I'm tired of being beaten upside the head about how great this show is and how no one is watching. Every season, there's anxiety or a campaign being started to get it renewed. We're what, a whole 2 episodes into the season? Please, Fox...This is one show you NEED to cancel.

Same thing goes for The Office on NBC. The quirky crap doesn't work..just go the traditional sitcom route till you find a hit..
That's great logic. Don't every *try* to make quality, entertaining television because "the masses" don't get it...Instead, keep catering to the mindless by churning out formulaic crap. Yeah, that's a good idea.

Instead, why not try doing better promotion? Why not put your full support behind a series? Don't pre-empt the show with reruns of other shows...Don't constantly change time/day. Etc...

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post #24 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakesh.S
The quirky crap doesn't work..just go the traditional sitcom route till you find a hit..
You mean like "Evberybody Loves Raymond", "That 70s Show", shows with an obnoxious laugh track? Yeah, that crap floats, but not with me.
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post #25 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 11:21 AM
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The article above matches what I've been thinking. Networks dont actually care about individual shows. They care primarily about the collective viewing of groups of shows or timeslots. The former NBC Thursday night Must See TV juggernaut that ruled for years. If they can win the slots, they get more advert dollars and therefore look good to their respecitve boses which mean, more money for me. So I think the shell game isnt going to stop until they can get more out of slot. Unfortunately to shows like AD, it means eventual cancelation if they cant fit it into a group and/or the individual numbers dont add up.

Its too bad but I like the show. And the last one was definately under par. I hope this is not a trend.

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post #26 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 11:22 AM
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Fox wouldn't know what a good show was if it bit Fox in the ass and this includes AI b/c it is not a good show. It's karaoke for the lame!

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post #27 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gecko85

....why not try doing better promotion? Why not put your full support behind a series? Don't pre-empt the show with reruns of other shows...Don't constantly change time/day. Etc...
Better promotion? Fox has had "AD" stars involved in its Super Bowl programming and featured on its World Series and ALCS and NLCS games.

It has promo after promo in "American Idol" and other Fox hits.

It has featured "AD" characters in every conceivable Fox sports program.

Fox has spent millions trying to lure more viewers to the show.

Fox has tried to find any time slot where viewers would watch "AD".

It has gone far beyond what any other network would have done.

So now bitter "AD" fans blast Fox execs, or claim Americans are "stupid" or worse.

It is just a TV show. And despite Fox's best intentions and all its publicity efforts, most Americans clearly don't care to watch.

Perhaps it could find a home on HBO. But for a broadcasting network it appears to be an impossible sell.
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post #28 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gecko85
Instead, why not try doing better promotion? Why not put your full support behind a series? Don't pre-empt the show with reruns of other shows...Don't constantly change time/day. Etc...
Are you being serious?

The fact that this flop has been on the air for 3 years is promotion enough. Fox does AD mini-marathons ALL the freakin' time.

How much more promotion does a show need before the suits at Fox realize that it just doesn't work?

Desperate Housewives is the new wave of comedy...A 50/50 mix of humor and drama. Expect to see more of these shows in the future and less of Arrested Development and The Office clones.

Quote:
You mean like "Evberybody Loves Raymond", "That 70s Show", shows with an obnoxious laugh track? Yeah, that crap floats, but not with me
Yes..This seems to work for CBS, at least right now.
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post #29 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 11:54 AM
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I tried to watch the Office based on critical acclaim, Daily Show, etc. but I just didnt get it or laugh. I agree that AD may not belong on the networks. Curb Your Enthusiasm works great on HBO. I was hoping Dead Like Me worked on Showtime but that eventually got the axe too. Its too bad there arent places that can keep shows like AD and Dead Like Me.

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post #30 of 301 Old 09-29-2005, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer4
I tried to watch the Office based on critical acclaim, Daily Show, etc. but I just didnt get it or laugh. I agree that AD may not belong on the networks. Curb Your Enthusiasm works great on HBO. I was hoping Dead Like Me worked on Showtime but that eventually got the axe too. Its too bad there arent places that can keep shows like AD and Dead Like Me.
Cable was supposed to provide enough channels for us who like those less-widely-accepted shows. Unfortunately, it doesn't unless a show makes it to the likes of Nick at Night or TVLand.

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