It's Back: The Broadcast Flag. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 302 Old 10-02-2005, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I am sure everyone has seen this article. Its absolutly looking bad for everyone who loves HD.

http://news.com.com/Politicians+want...l?tag=nefd.top

I have contacted the offices of every congressman and Senator in the Article. We need everyone on this forum to contact these evil bastards and tell them to stop this nonsense. We own the airwaves.
Apparently Hollywood believes that everyone in the United States who own an HDTV will record it on a computer or DVR with an HD Tuner and send it to everyone on the internet. Although they have the right to protect their content in the form of DVDs and VHS, when they broadcast their content on our airwaves (the people of the United States own the airwaves) they forfeit the right to regulate how and when we watch television. The correct plan of action is for the Hollywood to discontinue to use out airwaves and let competition decide what people watch and how people use the airwaves we own.
REGULATION FROM BIG AND CORRUPT GOVERNMENT IS NOT AN OPTION!
If ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, PBS and PAX don't want to broadcast over our airwaves, then let someone else use them who will. No one is putting a gun to their head and they should never feel that they have a monopoly. Do they have a Monopoly? I have contacted both of Colorado's Senators and my Congressman. I urge everyone on this forum to do the same. Please contact them and ask them not to support the broadcast flag. Fair use of our airwaves should never be sacrificed because Hollywood have deep pockets to buy off our politicians.

PLEASE CONTACT YOUR REPRESENTATIVES.
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post #2 of 302 Old 10-02-2005, 11:09 PM
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Here is a list of the "representatives" who are representing those in Hollywood pushing this crap.

http://www.boingboing.net/2005/10/02...jerks_who.html
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post #3 of 302 Old 10-03-2005, 12:26 AM
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this should be made a sticky or emailed to every avsforum member or something...
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post #4 of 302 Old 10-03-2005, 04:03 AM
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So, are you saying that Hollywood should stop providing programming for all over-the-air broadcasts?

That only leaves INFOMERCIALS. :(

Ken English, Sr. Engineer, KSL-TV.
"The postings on this site are my own and don't necessarily represent the Company positions, strategies or opinions."
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post #5 of 302 Old 10-03-2005, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenglish
So, are you saying that Hollywood should stop providing programming for all over-the-air broadcasts?

That only leaves INFOMERCIALS. :(

I suppose the infomercials would be OAR and not interrupted by commercials? Figures.

What we watch from Hollywood on broadcast television is not high value content. Hollywood movies are cut, edited, time-compressed, interrupted by commercials, and not presented in OAR.

Such content is not a substitute for unedited and uncut versions distributed on premium channels or sold as DVDs.

And I left out the bit-rate. The WeatherPlus subchannel is causing artifacts on ND football HD broadcasts. Pristine HD? Ha! That supposed high value content that needs to be protected is more like "blue light special" content. Why bother?

I have not forgotten that the networks went up on the Hill asking for 6MHz for HD.

Regards,
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post #6 of 302 Old 10-03-2005, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsb_hburg
What we watch from Hollywood on broadcast television is not high value content. .

Obviously, the studios don't agree with your position..even tho you may be right..

Bob

The views expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent those of the FOX,ABC,CBS,or CW Networks,MeTv, my employer or its parent company. Nor my wife for that matter!
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post #7 of 302 Old 10-03-2005, 06:37 AM
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What about a first-run series like LOST where they are expecting significant revenue from DVD sales?

Not that I'm for the broadcast flag -- I'm definitely not -- but to say there's no high-value content on broadcast television is flat-out wrong.

David Forbes

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post #8 of 302 Old 10-03-2005, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenglish
So, are you saying that Hollywood should stop providing programming for all over-the-air broadcasts?

That only leaves INFOMERCIALS. :(
If they won't provide the content in full bandwidth HD, then let some one else provide it. Its competition and the local providers ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX should never think they have a monopoly. If they won't provide full bandwidth HD because they believe everyone in the USA is going to steal from them, then they should have their stations pulled from our airwaves and given to someone who will. I wouldn't mind taking the local ABC station from their current owners worthless hands. They broadcast from a clothes hanger on the top of their 3 story building in down town Denver. This is typical business as usual for our congress which is the most corrupt institution in America. We have got to stop this. I would love to see ABC, CBS and FOX have a little heat put on them.
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post #9 of 302 Old 10-03-2005, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David F
What about a first-run series like LOST where they are expecting significant revenue from DVD sales?

Not that I'm for the broadcast flag -- I'm definitely not -- but to say there's no high-value content on broadcast television is flat-out wrong.

It is cut, it is edited and perhaps it is time-compressed in some markets. The DVD would not have these failings. The DVD would also have extra features and perhaps have deleted scenes. The next-generation DVD might offer full bit-rate.

I am not so sure a series such as Lost is on the same plane as A-list movies which clearly constitute high-value content.

A-list movies shown on broadcast television lose their high-value character when they are shown cut, edited, time-compressed, bit-rate reduced, cropped and zoomed. What is there to protect?

Regards,
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post #10 of 302 Old 10-03-2005, 09:14 AM
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For the lazy of you out there:
http://action.eff.org/site/Advocacy?id=129

the EFF has a simple web form.. enter a name, address and e-mail address, and they'll send a fax and email to your representative and senators.
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post #11 of 302 Old 10-03-2005, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwijib0
For the lazy of you out there:
And you think EFF ACTUALLY WORKS? They are treated as a radical lobby group by the legistature and are ignored (in the same catagory as Green Peace and other so called "tree huggers"). You would be get more bang for your buck if you just wrote a letter and mailed it. By doing that, you force their staff to deal with it. An email or fax can be handled by one person and then trashed. A letter is tougher to just do a way it since it goes through more hands in a legislative office.

But between you and me, BF is coming. Maybe not today, but Hollywood will not stop until it is enacted. You can bank on that.

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post #12 of 302 Old 10-03-2005, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is the contact info for the "EVIL 20". I have contacted everyone of these bastards. I hope everyone else does the same. Mary Bono and Lee Terry seem to be spearheading this thing. They are the only offices that know anything about the issue. Please, call these corrupt scum bags and tell them our government is not for sale.

Ed Towns
2232 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
Phone: (202) 225-5936
Fax: (202) 225-1018
Zip Code to Give Office when Calling 11207

Jim Shimkus
513 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
Phone: (202) 225-5271
Fax: (202) 225-5880
Springfield
3130 Chatham Road, Suite C
Springfield, IL 62704
Phone: (217) 492-5090
Fax: (217) 492-5096

George Radanovich-R California
1111 J Street,
Suite G-103
Modesto, CA 95354 Phone: (209) 238-9200
Fax: (209) 238-9500
e-mail: george@radanovich.com

Mike Ferguson
Washington, DC Office
214 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
202-225-5361 - office
202-225-9460 – fax

Representative Marsha Blackburn - Tennessee's 7th District
509 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
202-225-2811
202-225-3004 fax

Bart Gordon
Washington Office:
2304 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
Phone: (202) 225-4231 Fax: (202) 225 6887

Mary Bono
Washington, D.C.
405 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Phone: (202) 225-5330
Fax: (202) 225-2961

Lee Terry, R-Neb
Washington Office
1524 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
(202) 225-4155 phone
(202) 226-5452 fax

Omaha District Office
11717 Burt St.
Suite 106
Omaha, NE 68154
(402) 397-9944 phone
(402) 397-8787 fax

Ed Whitfield, R-Kt
Does not allow phone calling of his office.

Bobby Rush,
Washington Office
2416 Rayburn HOB
Washington, DC 20515
phone: 202-225-4372
fax: 202-226-0333

District Office
700-706 E. 79th. St.
Chicago, IL 60619
phone: 773-224-6500
fax: 773-224-9624



Vito Fossella
Washington D.C.
1239 Longworth House Office Building,
Washington D.C.
20515
P: (202) 225-3371
F: (202) 226-1272
Staten Island
4434 Amboy Road, 2nd Floor
Staten Island, NY
10312
P: (718) 356-8400
F: (718) 356-1928

John Shadegg
Washington, D.C.
The Honorable John Shadegg
U.S. House of Representatives
306 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
(202) 225-3361 phone
(202) 225-3462 fax
Arizona
The Honorable John Shadegg
301 East Bethany Home Road
Suite C-178
Phoenix, AZ 85012
(602) 263-5300 phone
(602) 248-7733 fax


Eliot Engel
Washington, DC
2161 Rayburn HOB
Washington, DC 20515
Phone: (202) 225-2464
Office hours: Monday-Friday 9 am - 5 pm
Bronx
3655 Johnson Avenue
Bronx, NY 10463
Phone: (718) 796-9700
Office hours: Monday-Friday 9 am - 5 pm

Albert Wynn, D-Md
The Honorable Albert R. Wynn
434 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515-2004
(202) 225-8699 PHONE
(202) 225-8714 FAX
The Honorable Albert R. Wynn
18401 Woodfield Road- Suite D
Gaithersburg, Md 20879
(301)-987-2054 PHONE
(301) 987-2097 FAX

Mike Doyle
Washington, D.C. Office:
401 Cannon HOB
Washington, DC 20515
Phone: 202-225-2135
Fax: 202-225-3084
District Offices:
11 Duff Road
Penn Hills, PA 15235
Phone: 412-241-6055
Fax: 412-241-6820











Congressman Charles A. Gonzalez
327 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515-4320
Phone: (202)225-3236
Fax: (202)225-1915
Congressman Charles A. Gonzalez
B-124 Federal Building
727 East Durango
San Antonio, TX 78206-1286
Phone: (210)472-6195
Fax: (210)472-4009

Charles Bass, R-N.H
Representative Charles F. Bass
ATTN: Page Coordinator
2421 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
(202) 225-5206

John Sullivan
Washington DC
114 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
Phone: 202 225-2211
Fax: 202 225-9187
Oklahoma
2424 East 21st Street #510
Tulsa, OK 74114
Phone:(918) 749-0014
Fax:(918) 749-0781

Rep. Frank Pallone
420 Cannon Building
Washington, D.C. 20515-3006
202 225-4671
MIDDLESEX
67/69 Church St.
Kilmer Square
New Brunswick, N.J. 08901
732 249-8892
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post #13 of 302 Old 10-03-2005, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsb_hburg
I am not so sure a series such as Lost is on the same plane as A-list movies which clearly constitute high-value content.
Shows such as Lost & Desperate Housewives are certainly considered hi-value content. Their ratings back that up.....but it seems that chances of getting them on hi-def DVD anytime soon are really slim, if ever.
This is no revelation, but the politicians are definitely not pulling this crap out of their own minds....they're no doubt gettin their palms greased. Most of them have probably never even heard of HD until they were approached by hollywood fat-cats.

"I knew you'd say that"...*BLAM!*
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post #14 of 302 Old 10-03-2005, 05:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paintit77
It's Back: The Broadcast Flag.
Has it ever gone away? Copy Protection paranoia has compelled me to cut back on my digital cable service from $158 to $66 per month. ;)
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post #15 of 302 Old 10-03-2005, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rezzy
Shows such as Lost & Desperate Housewives are certainly considered hi-value content. Their ratings back that up.....but it seems that chances of getting them on hi-def DVD anytime soon are really slim, if ever.
This is no revelation, but the politicians are definitely not pulling this crap out of their own minds....they're no doubt gettin their palms greased. Most of them have probably never even heard of HD until they were approached by hollywood fat-cats.
I would consider content such as HBO original series programming when broadcast on its respective linear premium channel to be high value because such content would be uncut, unedited, etc. HBO subscribers pay a premium for this level of service and quality.

Network original series programming is delivered free but is indirectly paid for by consumers through patronage of sponsors. This forum is rife with criticism of the networks' presentation of A-list movies because the movies are edited, cut and time-compressed to make room for more and more commercials. These negatives reduce the viewing value of the content. The same can be said for popular network series programming.

For example, the Green Mile has been shown on ABC a few times; and it suffers from many an edited scene. There are usually one to two blocks of commercials lasting at least six minutes to disrupt the continuity of the movie in addition to the multiple smaller blocks of commercials. The end result is that the viewing experience of ABC's presentation of the Green Mile is substantially different than that of the premium channel. Is the network presentation sufficiently high value enough to warrant additional protection?

I perceive the hobbled network presentation of an A-list movie to be a commercial for the sale or rental of the DVD of that movie.

Regards,
Joe


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post #16 of 302 Old 10-03-2005, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rezzy
Shows such as Lost & Desperate Housewives are certainly considered hi-value content. Their ratings back that up.....
The interesting to thing to realize is that these shows would not be hig value content if they weren't on one of the broadcast networks. If they had instead premiered on cable networks, they would have a tenth of the ratings, and the prospect of much smaller DVD sales as a result.

So, yeah, absent the broadcast flag the studios could try yanking all of their "high value" content from broadcast TV. The only problem is that it will then be worth far less money -- and they'll lose more money from the reduced exposure that the programs get than they would have lost from piracy.
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post #17 of 302 Old 10-04-2005, 03:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Desmond
The interesting to thing to realize is that these shows would not be hig value content if they weren't on one of the broadcast networks. If they had instead premiered on cable networks, they would have a tenth of the ratings, and the prospect of much smaller DVD sales as a result.

So, yeah, absent the broadcast flag the studios could try yanking all of their "high value" content from broadcast TV. The only problem is that it will then be worth far less money -- and they'll lose more money from the reduced exposure that the programs get than they would have lost from piracy.
All true. Legitimate cable/satellite TV subscribers are apparently being "set-up" to be "hammered" with higher-costs and less ability to enjoy playing back the digital content on their A/V equipment the way they prefer. If those of us who honestly pay for these services are to be treated like criminals, eventually we will get pi$$ed off enough to find some alternatives. Hopefully enough people will cut their cable bills by $90 per month, which is the only way to get the attention of these "greedy" content/cable/satellite providers.
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post #18 of 302 Old 10-04-2005, 08:31 AM
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Isn't the fight already (sadly) over?

Most Monitors Won't Play New HD Video

Scott Spanbauer PC World Tue Oct 4, 2005

If you dropped a bundle on a high-end computer display or HDTV, you could be in for an unpleasant surprise when you slip your new high-definition DVD of Star Wars: Episode III into your Windows Vista PC. Vista, the next version of Windows that's slated to appear in about a year, will feature a new systemwide content protection scheme called PVP-OPM (see box below). If your monitor doesn't work with PVP-OPM, all you'll likely see is either a fuzzy rendition of your high-def flick or Hollywood's version of the Blue Screen of Death--a message warning you that the display has been 'revoked'.

High-Def Hard-Liners

Forthcoming Blu-ray and HD-DVD discs promise higher resolution than a standard DVD's 480-line maximum. But to protect its high-quality content from pirating, the film industry, along with disc and hardware makers, has created an umbrella content protection scheme known as AACS. If Windows is to play the new discs, Microsoft has little choice but to support AACS, which is where PVP-OPM comes in. According to Microsoft, PVP-OPM will prevent pirates from attaching recording devices directly to the PC graphics card's DVI or HDMI video outputs in order to capture a pristine digital copy of the disc's otherwise encrypted content. A related component, PVP-UAB, will prevent savvy computer owners from installing data capture cards in order to grab high-def movies straight off the PCI Express bus.

Unfortunately, PVP-OPM will also shut out plenty of law-abiding video watchers whose current displays aren't future-proof. To comply with the film industry's protection scheme, PVP-OPM employs HDCP technology to determine whether graphics boards and displays are allowed to output and display high-def video. If HDCP sees a blocked display (such as a video capture device) or one that does not support HDCP (including any HDTV with only analog connectors), it prevents output or reduces the video resolution until the offending display or protected content is removed from the system.

Costly Upgrades

If that scenario sounds disturbing, it gets worse: Few existing wide-screen desktop displays support HDCP. If you're one of the hundreds of thousands of current wide-screen desktop display owners, you can probably forget about viewing Blu-ray or HD-DVD discs on your nearly new (and far from cheap) monitor. To watch high-def content, you'll likely have to upgrade your monitor. A handful of HDCP-compliant displays from NEC, Samsung, Sony, and ViewSonic are just starting to appear, according to market research firm iSuppli. And manufacturers such as Dell have plans to incorporate HDCP support into future wide-screen displays, though details are scarce.

Think you could avoid this expense by sticking with XP? No such luck. To see HD, you'll have to upgrade to Windows Vista as well; Windows XP's security and driver models lack the ability to support HDCP. Consumers intent on viewing HD discs via their PCs will have little choice but to spring for the new operating system in addition to an HDCP-compliant monitor.

Decode the JargonAACS: Advanced Access Control System. A specification for guarding next-generation optical-media content created by the film, electronics, and software industries.HDCP: High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection. Intel's content protection scheme for digital displays, not supported by most currently available PC monitors.PVP-OPM: Protected Video Path Output Protection Management. Downgrades video resolution or blocks the picture entirely if the connected display doesn't support content protection.PVP-UAB: Protected Video Path User-Accessible Bus. Encrypts video content as it passes over the PCI Express bus from the high-def disc to prevent other PCI Express devices from intercepting the video stream.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/2005...E0BHNlYwN0bWE-


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post #19 of 302 Old 10-04-2005, 09:02 AM
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I currently have 2 HDTV's (1 projector, 1 CRT). The CRT (1st generation HDTV) only has Component Video In (no DVI/HDMI). The fact that my display won't be able to watch HD-DVD's in a few years really pisses me off. Why can't anybody think these things out ahead of time?

It just seems to me that this could scream class-action lawsuit against the manufacturers of the TVs and the distributers of the content.
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post #20 of 302 Old 10-04-2005, 09:11 AM
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I am trying to understand your point, mlbUC.

A TV manufacturer must make its product compatible with all upcoming electronics formats?

A content provider must make its product compatible with all previous formats?

If you don't, we will sue you?


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post #21 of 302 Old 10-04-2005, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredfa
I am trying to understand your point, mlbUC.

A TV manufacturer must make its product compatible with all upcoming electronics formats?

A content provider must make its product compatible with all previous formats?

If you don't, we will sue you?
Seems like a bait and switch to me... get me to buy a HDTV monitor, then 4 or 5 years down the road decide that I "don't have the proper connector to display HD DVDs." Then don't produce any kind of adapter to make it work on my TV, instead say "you have to buy a new HDTV that has the HDMI connection needed."

I was promised that my HDTV would display HD content down the road, which is a major reason why I purchased an HDTV when I did. There was very little HDTV programming when I bought my hardware, I did it because I didn't want to buy a digital tuner for a SD TV 5 years later. Under this new setup it will not display HD content produced by the content providers. Seems to defeat the purpose they were selling the TV's (they were selling them in order to be able to display HD, correct?).

All this does is cause me to not want to ever buy any new hardware or software (in this case, HD DVD) again. It appears it could be a waste of my money in the long run now, rendering my CRT TV obsolete in terms of watching HD DVDs. I wonder why so many people hate the MPAA and RIAA, when they are constantly gouging the consumers.

This may not directly be the fault of the manufacturer, but somebody is to blame for this. Promise one thing, then do another...
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post #22 of 302 Old 10-04-2005, 10:16 AM
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I am a broadcast flag noob and just came across this thread. Does this affect archiving to D-VHS in anyway? I am waiting for my D* contract to run out so that I can switch to cable so that I can potentially hook up one of their firewire boxes to my D-VHS recorder. Would this prohibit my ability to do this? This would only add to my outrage over the topic as a whole.
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post #23 of 302 Old 10-04-2005, 10:46 AM
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I don't know if the broadcast flag carries it, but one of these copyright protection formats only allows content to be recorded once. Firewire might be be the saving interconnect. I am sure others will post about this.

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post #24 of 302 Old 10-04-2005, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrybud
I don't know if the broadcast flag carries it, but one of these copyright protection formats only allows content to be recorded once. Firewire might be be the saving interconnect. I am sure others will post about this.
I frankly don't care so much about what the broadcast flag does/doesn't allow. My issue is that it puts Hollywood in a position to regulate personal computers.

My cable provider is Netflix
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post #25 of 302 Old 10-04-2005, 11:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredfa
If you dropped a bundle on a high-end computer display or HDTV, you could be in for an unpleasant surprise when you slip your new high-definition DVD of Star Wars: Episode III into your Windows Vista PC. Vista, the next version of Windows that's slated to appear in about a year, will feature a new systemwide content protection scheme called PVP-OPM (see box below). If your monitor doesn't work with PVP-OPM, all you'll likely see is either a fuzzy rendition of your high-def flick or Hollywood's version of the Blue Screen of Death--a message warning you that the display has been 'revoked'.
This gets more "annoying" as each new scheme is introduced to limit the use of our "toys" & the "content" we pay for. I've spent ~$15,000 on PC's, HDTV's, DVD players and DD receivers since 2001.... it may be a long time (perhaps/likely(?) never) before I buy that HD-DVD player or the 65" SED panel I've been considering.
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post #26 of 302 Old 10-04-2005, 03:38 PM
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Congress is yet again trying to pass a broadcast flag even though its been shot down before in the past.

Here's a link to the article: http://www.boingboing.net/2005/10/02...jerks_who.html

If you oppose the broadcast flag, and I'm assuming most here do, do your part and contact whoever you can...The more the better.
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post #27 of 302 Old 10-04-2005, 04:00 PM
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Topics merged.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

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post #28 of 302 Old 10-04-2005, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optivity
This gets more "annoying" as each new scheme is introduced to limit the use of our "toys" & the "content" we pay for. I've spent ~$15,000 on PC's, HDTV's, DVD players and DD receivers since 2001.... it may be a long time (perhaps/likely(?) never) before I buy that HD-DVD player or the 65" SED panel I've been considering.

Most people won't buy the dvd players or dvds if they aren't compatible. Bad business decision. Someone shells out a few grand on a set, they'll be just fine watching regular DVDs until their set burns out. The temptation to buy a new tv JUST to watch HD DVD? It's just not there. Although I suppose when they start putting out HD DVD pornos it'll start to pick up. Perverts love new technology.
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post #29 of 302 Old 10-04-2005, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by paintit77
Ed Whitfield, R-Kt
Does not allow phone calling of his office.

Oh screw that guy... What type of weak excuse is that? He is a public servant.

He should be able to found at one of these numbers. Hell, call all of em.

Washington Office:

301 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515-1701
(202) 225-3115 Voice
(202) 225-3547 Fax

District Offices:

1403 S. Main Street
Hopkinsville, KY 42240
(270) 885-8079 Voice
(800) 328-5629 Toll Free
(270) 885-8598 Fax

200 North Main, Suite F
Monroe County Courthouse
Tompkinsville, KY 42167
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(270) 487-0019 Fax

Room 307
222 First Street
Henderson, KY 42420
(270) 826-4180 Voice
(270) 826-6783 Fax

Room 104
100 Fountain Avenue
Paducah, KY 42001
(270) 442-6901 Voice
(270) 442-6805 Fax
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post #30 of 302 Old 10-04-2005, 04:20 PM
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Whats stupid to me is many hdtv receivers already support the broadcast flag. The samsung OTA only SIR-T451 requires HDCP on the DVI port.

The broadcast flag would make all current PCI tuners illegal and requires that two major studios approve any new receiver. Imagine if that law was in effect when the VCR or Tivo came out? I doubt they would have made it to market.

OTA will never be secure since the broadcast flag is only bit in the psip stream and the signal is not encrypted. The pirates will have no problem recording it while the average person will lose their fair use rights.
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