Verizon FiOS HDTV - Page 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 8Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 12:25 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
fredfa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: San Antonio TX 78251
Posts: 49,069
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Dish better kick it up at least bunch or it is about to get left in the dust by digital cable, FiOS (and its other telephone company iterations), and DirecTV.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
fredfa is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 12:26 PM
Advanced Member
 
LonghornXP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Largo, Florida
Posts: 787
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

Isn't Rainbow a separate company yet?

Is any company really seperate anymore these days.
LonghornXP is offline  
post #33 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 12:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
LonghornXP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Largo, Florida
Posts: 787
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredfa View Post

Dish better kick it up at least bunch or it is about to get left in the dust by digital cable, FiOS (and its other telephone company iterations), and DirecTV.

I agree and I also must add that these next 5 years might be the best ever TV years for customers. So many companies getting into the game with pricing and content wars. Oh fun times are ahead of us oh yes they are.

I for one can't wait and its about time we consumers could have companies fighting tooth and nail for our business like most other industries.
LonghornXP is offline  
post #34 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 12:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jagouar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 5,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
either way verizon ig going to take over the market imo.... who really would want dish or directv or cable if you can get more channels for cheaper with verizon? I know as soon as its ready in my area im jumping on board.
jagouar is offline  
post #35 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 12:29 PM
Advanced Member
 
brewer4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hartford CT
Posts: 601
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredfa View Post

Dish better kick it up at least bunch or it is about to get left in the dust by digital cable, FiOS (and its other telephone company iterations), and DirecTV.

Agreed. The partial Voom package isnt enough. FIOS and SBC coming along with the direct HD punch set to happen next year with D*, Dish Network better get going. A wait and see approach will not serve them well. 2004 and early was for early adopters. You are either HD now or plan to be served!

Great news (rumor)!!

The Meaning of Life...Well there's nothing really special...Try to be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try to live together in peace...
brewer4 is offline  
post #36 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 12:29 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Q of BanditZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: blurayoasis.com
Posts: 15,242
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagouar View Post

either way verizon ig going to take over the market imo.... who really would want dish or directv or cable if you can get more channels for cheaper with verizon? I know as soon as its ready in my area im jumping on board.

I was reading in the WSJ: It's not just Verizon, but a whole bunch of these companies like SBC, Adelphia, and others are going to be putting out very simillar services.

It's like one forumer asked a few posts up: Is there anything as a seperate company anymore?

No, not really.

It's going to be fascinating as hell to watch this all unfold. I'm tantalized!

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
Q of BanditZ is offline  
post #37 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 12:30 PM
Advanced Member
 
LonghornXP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Largo, Florida
Posts: 787
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagouar View Post

either way verizon ig going to take over the market imo.... who really would want dish or directv or cable if you can get more channels for cheaper with verizon? I know as soon as its ready in my area im jumping on board.

Don't ever count out satellite because you never know what they might do to reduce their drawbacks and to entice customers towards them. Money always has a way of enticing customers one way or another. The more choice we have the better. Also as long as say DirecTV has Murdock and NFL Sunday Ticket they won't be going anywhere.
LonghornXP is offline  
post #38 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 12:33 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 45,876
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
According to inside sources, a very high percentage of SBS technical capabilities are working on their fiber initiative.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

Ken H is offline  
post #39 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 12:33 PM
Moderator
 
CPanther95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 23,797
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Q of BanditZ View Post

It's going to be fascinating as hell to watch this all unfold. I'm tantalized!

I'd be more excited if my local cable company wasn't also my local phone company with a 1 or 2 county territory.

But it will be great for competition.
CPanther95 is offline  
post #40 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 12:36 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Scott Greczkowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Newington, Connecticut
Posts: 1,393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

According to inside sources, a very high percentage of SBS technical capabilities are working on their fiber initiative.

This Ken is true, the company I work for is currently working with SBC on some of these things.

The great thing is the consumer is the winner in all of this, and this is a great push for HDTV.

HD is finally going mainstream.

Scott
SatelliteGuys.US / MultiChannel News
Scott Greczkowski is offline  
post #41 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 12:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jagouar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 5,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornXP View Post

Don't ever count out satellite because you never know what they might do to reduce their drawbacks and to entice customers towards them. Money always has a way of enticing customers one way or another. The more choice we have the better. Also as long as say DirecTV has Murdock and NFL Sunday Ticket they won't be going anywhere.

im not counting them out but once this stuff starts happening dbs will lose alot of subs.... i would be suprised if both dish and directv survive when their sub numbers start to drop (and they will). Cable is going to lose out on alot of subs too. But Ive thought this from the beginning that what verizon was doing would kill all the other providers and it seems that very well might come true.

Fios is basically as good as D*'s longest term plans in terms of capacity but they dont have to worry about having every LIL (the advantage of cable in that they can only worry about one area).

DBS is going to HAVE to go to much cheaper prices (below what verizon will have and we have already seen they are VERY low). The day of price gouging for exclusive content (such as ST) will be over very soon.
jagouar is offline  
post #42 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 12:39 PM
 
optivity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,907
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I recently switched to Verizon DSL and come to find out the service is better than RoadRunner and it costs $5 less per month! I'm returning my cable modem tonight.
optivity is offline  
post #43 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 12:50 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 45,876
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
If you think about it, the whole idea of one provider having every HD channel is technically possible, but unlikely from a number of other perspectives. The easiest example that comes to mind is NFL ST.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

Ken H is offline  
post #44 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 12:52 PM
Member
 
toy4two2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I call a HUGE BS on this one.

For one thing the cable companies have been snapping up local sports franchise broadcast rights, even putting in their own HD eqiupment to keep it exclusive.

For instance, here in San Diego, you can't walk 2 feet within PETCO park to watch the Padres without being bombard every step with "HD Brought to you by COX / SONY".

They even have their own CABLE channel, Channel 4SD, whose only purpose is to show Padres games and SDSU basketball games from COX Areana (nifty they just built a whole gym just for exclusive rights).

They REFUSE to let Directv or Echo show Padres games, it really blows, and consequently no one I know follows the Padres anymore because they can't watch them on TV (maybe a GOOD thing this year LOL).

I understand many markets (RSN) like Phillidelphia have the same cable company scum like TWC that owns the rights to all the games (Comcast I believe).

So I don't see how FIOS is going to break up the sports exclusivity deals in many markets. Are they really going to let Verizon come in with their HD truck and show the games.

I think Congress needs to get involved.
toy4two2 is offline  
post #45 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 01:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jagouar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 5,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
the padres have their games in INHD all the time.... thats where the rsn stuff is coming from. INHD will be able to vastly increase its programming too. Its not that far fetched at all.
jagouar is offline  
post #46 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 01:04 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
fredfa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: San Antonio TX 78251
Posts: 49,069
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
The funny thing, Toy4two2, is that Padres Owner John Moores has DirecTV


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
fredfa is offline  
post #47 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 01:12 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Scott Greczkowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Newington, Connecticut
Posts: 1,393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Whats funny is things like NESN HD is not made available to Dish and DirecTV, yet I am able to watch many of the RedSox HD games on Bell ExpressVu from Canada.

Congress really does need to step in here and do something.

Scott
SatelliteGuys.US / MultiChannel News
Scott Greczkowski is offline  
post #48 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 01:14 PM
Member
 
toy4two2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagouar View Post

the padres have their games in INHD all the time.... thats where the rsn stuff is coming from. INHD will be able to vastly increase its programming too. Its not that far fetched at all.

INHD is owned by Cable Companies.

The only time locals get to watch their Padres is when FOX broadcasts Satuday baseball. You have to have cable to watch the Padres.

How can John Moores have D*? He can't watch the Padres with that unless he "moved" to San Fran, LOL.
toy4two2 is offline  
post #49 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 01:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jagouar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 5,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by toy4two2 View Post

INHD is owned by Cable Companies.

The only time locals get to watch their Padres is when FOX broadcasts Satuday baseball. You have to have cable to watch the Padres.

How can John Moores have D*? He can't watch the Padres with that unless he "moved" to San Fran, LOL.


My point was its a win/win for both verizon and inHD if it were to happen. InHd gets vastly more programming to choose from and verizon gets inHD/the contracts. Cox and others are part of the cable conglomerate that own INHD so the better that channel is the more its worth.
jagouar is offline  
post #50 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 01:23 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
fredfa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: San Antonio TX 78251
Posts: 49,069
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
jagouar: I don't know where you are getting your numbers from

"...DBS is going to HAVE to go to much cheaper prices (below what verizon will have and we have already seen they are VERY low). The day of price gouging for exclusive content (such as ST) will be over very soon....


-- but is it difficult to at least give some credence to the CSFB pricing analysis?

"..."Our pricing comparison indicates that Verizon's video plans offer greater value at all segments of the market versus its cable competitors and at the high end of the market versus satellite competitors," CSFB said...."


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
fredfa is offline  
post #51 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 01:40 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
DaveFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Natick MA
Posts: 17,175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Here's hoping they start wiring up multi-dwelling condos soon.

XBOX Live: Wagmman
PSN: Wagg
BFBC2: Wagman
Steam: Wag

My Second Life character looks and acts exactly like me except he can fly.
DaveFi is offline  
post #52 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 01:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CycloneGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Boyds, Maryland Useful Posts: 15
Posts: 6,477
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

Here's hoping they start wiring up multi-dwelling condos soon.

Just like SBC is working on its own secret FTTP initiative, so is Verizon also looking at FTTN. FTTN w/VDSL will also allow Verizon to service MDU using their existing copper. No need to run fibers all over a condo building.

Going to sign up for Dish Network?
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
me for a
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
referral number that will give you a $50 credit on your first bill.
CycloneGT is offline  
post #53 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 02:03 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
DaveFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Natick MA
Posts: 17,175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by CycloneGT View Post

Just like SBC is working on its own secret FTTP initiative, so is Verizon also looking at FTTN. FTTN w/VDSL will also allow Verizon to service MDU using their existing copper. No need to run fibers all over a condo building.

It won't come soon enough. I think I've mentioned a number of times that my town has had FIOS since June yet I can't get it.

XBOX Live: Wagmman
PSN: Wagg
BFBC2: Wagman
Steam: Wag

My Second Life character looks and acts exactly like me except he can fly.
DaveFi is offline  
post #54 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 02:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bill Broderick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Huntington Station, NY, USA
Posts: 1,490
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Verizon is probably a week away from getting a franchise agreement with its first Long Island locality. They know how disliked Cablevision is on Long Island and are making it one of their first targets.

The problem is that they need to negotiate individual franchise agreements with each individual locality (with Cablevision fighting against each agreement). Verizon is trying to make the case that they should be granted franchise agreements statewide, like they have done in Texas.

My town is one of the localities that they are currently in negotiations with. As soon a FIOS is available to me, I will cancelling D*. If Cablevision didn't suck so badly, I would have dumped D* when they decided to screw HD customers with their "Super Fan" crap.
Bill Broderick is offline  
post #55 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 02:09 PM
Senior Member
 
bobm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Cupertino, CA
Posts: 441
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by CycloneGT View Post

Just like SBC is working on its own secret FTTP initiative, so is Verizon also looking at FTTN. FTTN w/VDSL will also allow Verizon to service MDU using their existing copper. No need to run fibers all over a condo building.

That's backwards. Verizon is FTTP and SBC is working with FTTN. SBC will use copper and VDSL2 for the last mile.

Bellsouth is still on the fence and basically waiting to see if SBC can pull off the lower cost option. Lots of doubts there due to the technical hurdles that have to be overcome.
bobm is offline  
post #56 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 02:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jagouar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 5,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredfa View Post

jagouar: I don't know where you are getting your numbers from

"...DBS is going to HAVE to go to much cheaper prices (below what verizon will have and we have already seen they are VERY low). The day of price gouging for exclusive content (such as ST) will be over very soon....


-- but is it difficult to at least give some credence to the CSFB pricing analysis?

"..."Our pricing comparison indicates that Verizon's video plans offer greater value at all segments of the market versus its cable competitors and at the high end of the market versus satellite competitors," CSFB said...."

Fios:
Digital Service 160 chanels + Basic (15-35 channels) $39.95
Sports/Movie Package Combination (41 channels) $14.95
Digital Video Recorder (includes HDTV channels) $12.95

Total: $67.85 (sans HBO, SHO etc but the reason i didnt include them was they are pretty much priced the same on both providers). But that gets you 221 channels (not including HD channels).

DirecTV:
TOTAL CHOICE® PLUS (Over 155 Channels) $45.99
HD Pack $10.99
Total: $56.98 (155 channels, no DVR included, less HD.... you add a HDtivo and that $11 difference more than goes out the window)

Dish:
America's Top 180 (with locals) $52.99
HD Pack $9.99
Voom $5.00
Total: 67.98 (180 channels, no DVR, less HD)

Its quite clear to me who is the best deal there. And the reason my comment about Dish and Direct going to have to drop prices because for the same money you get alot more. D*/E* cant compete with that unless they drop pricing.

Source for Verizon pricing: http://www.dslreports.com/r0/downloa...2/kTi26334.zip
jagouar is offline  
post #57 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 02:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CycloneGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Boyds, Maryland Useful Posts: 15
Posts: 6,477
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobm View Post

That's backwards. Verizon is FTTP and SBC is working with FTTN. SBC will use copper and VDSL2 for the last mile.

Bellsouth is still on the fence and basically waiting to see if SBC can pull off the lower cost option. Lots of doubts there due to the technical hurdles that have to be overcome.

hehe, Thats the public announcments that you are talking about. I'm talking about what they have up their sleaves. Verizon likes FTTN since it allows them to get into the MDUs cheaply. SBC likes FTTP for its obvious advantages. And since a SBC's deployed FTTN will take the fiber close the homes, moving to FTTP at a later date is feasible.

Bell South is in the FTTN camp at this time.

Going to sign up for Dish Network?
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
me for a
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
referral number that will give you a $50 credit on your first bill.
CycloneGT is offline  
post #58 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 02:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gecko85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: California
Posts: 2,173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Liked: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagouar View Post

D*/E* cant compete with that unless they drop pricing.

D* will be able to compete as long as they have NFL Sunday Ticket.

Also, they're giving away the HD TiVo's right now, practically for free. I got mine installed for $45.

Panasonic TC-P60ST60, Pioneer SC-1523-K, Oppo BDP-103D, Pioneer PL-550 + Cambridge Audio Azur 640P, B&W CM1 (fronts), B&W CM Centre, Athena Point 5 Mk II (rears), Hsu VTF-2
----------------------------------------
Sony 34XBR960, Onkyo TX-NR414, Sony PS3, Athena Point 5 Mk II (center and fronts), Wharfedale WH-2 (rears), Polk PSW10
Gecko85 is online now  
post #59 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 02:47 PM
Newbie
 
gwn21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
ZD Net just posted and article that said that Verizon switches on it's TV Service in Keller, TX.

Go over to ZDNet _dot _com and the article is called: "Verizon Switches on TV Service". (Sorry, can't do a Link until I get 5 posts.)

Keller residents will pay $12.95 for the basic service, which includes 15 to 35 channels, and $39.95 for 180 channels. Sports and movie packages can be added for $5.95 and $11.95, respectively.

It will be intresting on what's going to happen.... I just like to see what the 180 channels will be.
gwn21 is offline  
post #60 of 18283 Old 09-22-2005, 03:28 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
fredfa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: San Antonio TX 78251
Posts: 49,069
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
jagouar: if you honestly believe DirecTV will be undercut on price, you have just totally failed to do research on any Rupert Murdoch operation.

Once the scale is there to go national, he will be advertising on a national basis, something it will take Verizon years to come close to.

If I lived in Killen, TX, (or Long Island!) I would have signed up for FiOS months ago. It seems like a good deal.

But to seriously believe Murdoch will be undersold is to totally ignore his history on at least three continents.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
fredfa is offline  
Reply HDTV Programming

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off