XX Torino 2006 Olympic Winter Games Day One (Saturday) - In HDTV on Universal HD! - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 84 Old 02-11-2006, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H
5.1 mix sounds like fine. Although I don't like the dialog in the main l/r channels.
The mix sounded fine to me too, but did anyone else have volume issues during the USA women's game? Watching through Comcast in Chicago, the volume continually got loud, then soft, then loud again. A few times it dropped out completely.

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post #62 of 84 Old 02-11-2006, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by homcom
Me, too.

Maybe that is what I should work on, getting an uncompressed feed of NBC and all the other networks straight from New York to my house. If thats too much, I would settle for the slightly compressed feed that the networks send to the stations. ;)
I didn't know a 120 to 1 compression of 1866Mpbs (1920 pels per line * 540 lines per field *60 fields per second * 30 bits per pel) to around 15Mpbs (Universal HD and NBC affialiates with Weather Plus) qualified as "slightly compressed".
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post #63 of 84 Old 02-11-2006, 06:02 PM
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** Sorry, wrong thread.
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post #64 of 84 Old 02-11-2006, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by brucebr
Getting picture dropouts (to black screen sometimes), and VERY loud audio pops. It's happening both OTA from KXAS in Dallas and on channel 82 on D*. Flipped over to the Green Mile and that looks fine so it's just happening on the Olympics. Was doing it earlier today on UHD as well. Nobody else is seeing this??
Didn't notice it on UHD but I was just getting the dropouts on NBCHD. You know this is the Universal HD thread right?

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post #65 of 84 Old 02-11-2006, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeLV
I didn't know a 120 to 1 compression of 1866Mpbs (1920 pels per line * 540 lines per field *60 fields per second * 30 bits per pel) to around 15Mpbs (Universal HD and NBC affialiates with Weather Plus) qualified as "slightly compressed".
I was talking about the feed sent from NBC to the local stations, which I believe is around 45 Mpbs.
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post #66 of 84 Old 02-11-2006, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Please keep on topic.

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post #67 of 84 Old 02-11-2006, 08:05 PM
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I saw some macroblocking during fast motion during the womens hockey, Russia vs Sweden. I didn't know it was women's hockey when I turned it on and watched for about ten minutes, thinking something's not right. It was 3-1 in the third, and when the puck got two inches from scoring, I thought, "this is rediculous, why didn't someone chase that thing into a score?"

Not quite as agressive as the male players, are they? The picture was way better than UHD's US OPEN tennis (almost unwatchable) but it was in 5.1! Do you know how rare that is for UHD? And I thought it was great 5.1. Really sounded like being in the stadium to me. That's all I saw today, because I skied all day. Perfect conditions again here in Colorado. Got to go watch the 480 widescreen skiing.
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post #68 of 84 Old 02-11-2006, 08:21 PM
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I watched a few women's hockey games this morning on Comcast UHD. Fair, at best, PQ. It was quite easy to notice here locally also. Comcast in Ocean NJ has UHD temprarily on INHD2, channel 207. They moved away form the USA women's game at around 12:30, to show a regional FSN (Islanders-Devils) hockey game, which had a clearly superior picture. Not even close ..
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post #69 of 84 Old 02-11-2006, 08:35 PM
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I'm trying to be nice. UHD had the worst "HD" quality since its inception, but sometimes recently it looks good, very good, and the 5.1 was really good this morning at the hockey game. I said the PQ wasn't perfect. Incremental improvemants are a good thing and should be aplauded and rewarded.

Not all of the skiing is in 480. Some of the women's freestyle coverage has to be HD. Lots of SD, but not all. Whoops! I'm talking W C NBC D* Feed. Go Bode!!!
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post #70 of 84 Old 02-11-2006, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kblee
The mix sounded fine to me too, but did anyone else have volume issues during the USA women's game? Watching through Comcast in Chicago, the volume continually got loud, then soft, then loud again. A few times it dropped out completely.
I never had complete audio loss, but on UHD through D* I definitely noticed several jumps between soft and loud. The video seemed to pause for a split second during most of the jumps. Really weird, like someone was flipping the "loud" switch on and off.
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post #71 of 84 Old 02-12-2006, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeLV
I didn't know a 120 to 1 compression of 1866Mpbs (1920 pels per line * 540 lines per field *60 fields per second * 30 bits per pel) to around 15Mpbs (Universal HD and NBC affialiates with Weather Plus) qualified as "slightly compressed".
Hmm - though in reality the 30 bits per pel is a bit optimistic for some sources...

Interesting intellectual question about what the full uncompressed source resolution really is though.

Is it 4:4:4 10 bit (which would be 30 bits per pel), or do you drop down to the broadcast interconnect standard of 4:2:2 10 bit or 8 bit (which would be 20 bits per pel, or 16 bits per pel respectively), or do you think about the 4:2:0 8 bit (which would be 12bits per pel) that MPEG2 uses prior to motion compression (and DVD uses for that matter - and HD-DVD as well, though ISTR that BluRay allows for 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 at bit depths greater than 8 bit - optionally? Good for broadcast apps)

4:4:4 10 bit compared to 4:2:0 8 bit is more than a 2:1 difference in bits per pel
- prior to any of the heavy motion compression.

4:2:2 8 bit compared to 4:4:4 10 bit is nearly a 2:1 difference as well for that matter!
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post #72 of 84 Old 02-12-2006, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomagnate
Got to go watch the 480 widescreen skiing.
Where is the 480 widescreen skiing? Is there an SD US channel broadcasting widescreen Olympics coverage in 480/60i SD in the US, rather than 1080/60i? I thought all outlets that carried the Olympics over there were 4:3 480/60i or 16:9 1080/60i.

Only reason I say this is that if you are watching the SD skiing on a US HD channel - it is VERY likely that you are watching 576 widescreen skiing instead! (Bit like the widescreen British Open Golf shown on TNT-HD)

AIUI the SD coverage is upconverted from 576/50i to 1080/50i locally - and backhauled in HD - and therefore doesn't go near a 480/60i path? ISTR that NBC run their on-site operations in 50Hz (and thus any SD stuff they do will be 576/50i - though the host broadcast feeds of the 576/50i 16:9 SD covered events are already upconverted to 1080/50i HD before they are provided to broadcasters at the IBC - though if NBC are on-site they may run their own 576/50i or 1080/50i operation alongside to augment?)

Hopefully there won't be any 480/60i 16:9 links in the chain - I can't see why there would be?
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post #73 of 84 Old 02-12-2006, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kblee
The mix sounded fine to me too, but did anyone else have volume issues during the USA women's game? Watching through Comcast in Chicago, the volume continually got loud, then soft, then loud again. A few times it dropped out completely.
Here's what I observed, I heard commentary thru the rear speakers of that annoying Mike Emerick. Then whenever they popped up the NBC olympics tv schedules you the sound would get louder and then drop after it went away.
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post #74 of 84 Old 02-12-2006, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneals2000
Where is the 480 widescreen skiing? Is there an SD US channel broadcasting widescreen Olympics coverage in 480/60i SD in the US, rather than 1080/60i? I thought all outlets that carried the Olympics over there were 4:3 480/60i or 16:9 1080/60i.

Only reason I say this is that if you are watching the SD skiing on a US HD channel - it is VERY likely that you are watching 576 widescreen skiing instead! (Bit like the widescreen British Open Golf shown on TNT-HD)

AIUI the SD coverage is upconverted from 576/50i to 1080/50i locally - and backhauled in HD - and therefore doesn't go near a 480/60i path? ISTR that NBC run their on-site operations in 50Hz (and thus any SD stuff they do will be 576/50i - though the host broadcast feeds of the 576/50i 16:9 SD covered events are already upconverted to 1080/50i HD before they are provided to broadcasters at the IBC - though if NBC are on-site they may run their own 576/50i or 1080/50i operation alongside to augment?)

Hopefully there won't be any 480/60i 16:9 links in the chain - I can't see why there would be?
Sneals, you continue to amaze me. I'm sure you're right. I can just tell it's a mix of HD and something else, and it's all widescreen here.
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post #75 of 84 Old 02-12-2006, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomagnate
Sneals, you continue to amaze me. I'm sure you're right. I can just tell it's a mix of HD and something else, and it's all widescreen here.
Eeek - sorry to amaze! (I'm just an enthusiast when it comes to working out how large programmes get made! Just as well as I occasionally have to think this way for a living...)

I'm extremely jealous of you guys being able to watch any of it in HD. I'm 576/50i 16:9 only here - but at least I'm at the same field rate! I have yet to see a single 4:3 feed though - so that's good.

As expected you're probably seeing a mix of 1080/50i 16:9 and 576/50i 16:9 origination, all upconverted to 1080/50i and then converted to 1080/60i. I expect the 576/50i originations look like good 480/60i 16:9 upconverts (but AIUI only Fox and PBS really show much 480/60i 16:9 SD originated stuff - so the only other comparison is anamorphic DVD?)

All of the 576/50i 16:9 stuff I've seen has looked pretty good - though the lighting on the luge seems to be a many-splendoured mix of colours - which must be a nightmare to rack.
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post #76 of 84 Old 02-13-2006, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by SnakeEyes
Again, amount of HD coverage is not up to NBC, they rely on the host broadcaster like everyone else
I didn't realize that the host broadcaster was delaying most footage by 12+ hours. And providing so little coverage that NBC has to fill its primetime show with announcers/human interest stories.

My bad. :rolleyes:

AFAIK, the only live HD coverage is hockey. That's it.
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post #77 of 84 Old 02-13-2006, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by HDelmo
I didn't realize that the host broadcaster was delaying most footage by 12+ hours. And providing so little coverage that NBC has to fill its primetime show with announcers/human interest stories.

My bad. :rolleyes:

AFAIK, the only live HD coverage is hockey. That's it.
No where did I address the live situation. My response was only dealing with what is in HD and what is not.
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post #78 of 84 Old 02-13-2006, 07:04 AM
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Haven't been plagued by glitches, image breakup, and really poor resolution this time. I'm viewing both UHD and NBC via Time Warner Cable and a 8300HD STB limited to ~1290 lines resolution on a 9"-gun RPTV that can resolve more detail.

Watching the indoor skating some Sunday, the images appeared okay, but noticed that the large ad lettering around the interior edges of the rink seemed somewhat fuzzy. Don't think it was depth of field focusing or lighting since the skaters were nearby. Then the overall image seemed to lack the crispness delivered by HDNet's cameras most of the time, where, it seems, such nearby sign lettering is always sharp. Might this be related to some format conversion that's taking place, such as 50 Hz to 60 Hz, or something else? -- John
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post #79 of 84 Old 02-13-2006, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by SnakeEyes
No where did I address the live situation. My response was only dealing with what is in HD and what is not.

Perhaps, but my original post was about live HD coverage.

As for what is HD and what is not, its NBC's decision to rely on the host broadcaster. No one is forcing them to use it. Yes there are cost issues involved, but NBC shouldn't get a pass because they didn't want to spend money. NBC decided to rely on the host broadcaster and they have to live with the consequences.
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post #80 of 84 Old 02-13-2006, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by HDelmo
Perhaps, but my original post was about live HD coverage.

As for what is HD and what is not, its NBC's decision to rely on the host broadcaster. No one is forcing them to use it. Yes there are cost issues involved, but NBC shouldn't get a pass because they didn't want to spend money. NBC decided to rely on the host broadcaster and they have to live with the consequences.
When NBC pays $613 dollars for the rights fee to broadcast these Winter Games, it would be hard to justify adding any more costs that only add a very marginal gain in product quality. The $613 gets NBC access to the host feed, so spending more outside of what they already do for such such things as extra unilateral coverage and just the general expense of a production this large, would be a huge business risk that would be a hard sell to the suits at GE. Plus the decision to not do some events in HD, is not always a cost issues, in some cases it is a technical or equipment availability issue. If NBC were to do a totally separate production from the host feed, they would have to rely on secondary camera locations and other disadvantages of not being the host broadcaster.
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post #81 of 84 Old 02-13-2006, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDelmo
Perhaps, but my original post was about live HD coverage.

As for what is HD and what is not, its NBC's decision to rely on the host broadcaster. No one is forcing them to use it. Yes there are cost issues involved, but NBC shouldn't get a pass because they didn't want to spend money. NBC decided to rely on the host broadcaster and they have to live with the consequences.
I can't see any commercial operation, like NBC, taking any other decision. If the host broadcaster is providing a 16:9 mainly-HD feed, with high production values, I can't see any business case for spending massive amounts of money replicating the coverage to improve slightly technically. NBC must be spending a lot on the broadcast rights, and their unilateral operation doesn't sound cheapskate...

NBC is one of the main reasons that there IS any host broadcasting in HD after all...
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post #82 of 84 Old 02-13-2006, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneals2000
I can't see any commercial operation, like NBC, taking any other decision. If the host broadcaster is providing a 16:9 mainly-HD feed, with high production values, I can't see any business case for spending massive amounts of money replicating the coverage to improve slightly technically. NBC must be spending a lot on the broadcast rights, and their unilateral operation doesn't sound cheapskate...

NBC is one of the main reasons that there IS any host broadcasting in HD after all...
Stop confusing everybody with facts (or at least well-reasoned, knowledgeable opinions.) ;)
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post #83 of 84 Old 02-17-2006, 01:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneals2000
I can't see any commercial operation, like NBC, taking any other decision. If the host broadcaster is providing a 16:9 mainly-HD feed, with high production values, I can't see any business case for spending massive amounts of money replicating the coverage to improve slightly technically. NBC must be spending a lot on the broadcast rights, and their unilateral operation doesn't sound cheapskate...

NBC is one of the main reasons that there IS any host broadcasting in HD after all...

Fair enough. I completely understand NBC's decision to utilize the host broadcaster. I'm not 100% thrilled with it, but I understand why they do it.

But I do have a problem with the ridiculous tape delays. And that is purely NBC's decision.

Again, I understand why they package the day into a prime time special to max out the viewership. However, what is wrong with showing more complete, more live coverage along with a primetime highlight show? afaik, the host broadcaster is providing footage in realtime, not with a 6 hour delay. I'm trying to figure out the reason for not filling up UHD with more Olympic coverage. Are the reruns of Century City(or whatever happens to be on during the day on UHD) that important?

What I'd like to see is more complete (as in the event from start to finish) with as much live broadcast as possible. I'm referring to HD (or sd 16:9 as the case may be). Now I understand that with so many events occurring simultaneously that is difficult, but they could still do a better job than what they are doing now. They could offer some events(as in more than just hockey) live, with the rest taped. And really, what's wrong with going 24/7 olympic coverage on UHD? It's not like there is that much compelling programming on there (besides Battlestar Galactica, I'd say there was nothing).

What I'd personally like to see complete and hopefully live:

Hockey
Snowboarding
Alpine skiing
Skating
maybe bobsled and luge events.

And I'd have to say that considering the ratings, NBC isn't doing a very good job. I, for one, am only watching the hockey on UHD. And to be fair, I'm thrilled that they are showing the hockey live and in hd. But I've given up on NBC...
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post #84 of 84 Old 02-17-2006, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDelmo
Fair enough. I completely understand NBC's decision to utilize the host broadcaster. I'm not 100% thrilled with it, but I understand why they do it.

But I do have a problem with the ridiculous tape delays. And that is purely NBC's decision.

Again, I understand why they package the day into a prime time special to max out the viewership. However, what is wrong with showing more complete, more live coverage along with a primetime highlight show? afaik, the host broadcaster is providing footage in realtime, not with a 6 hour delay. I'm trying to figure out the reason for not filling up UHD with more Olympic coverage. Are the reruns of Century City(or whatever happens to be on during the day on UHD) that important?

What I'd like to see is more complete (as in the event from start to finish) with as much live broadcast as possible. I'm referring to HD (or sd 16:9 as the case may be). Now I understand that with so many events occurring simultaneously that is difficult, but they could still do a better job than what they are doing now. They could offer some events(as in more than just hockey) live, with the rest taped. And really, what's wrong with going 24/7 olympic coverage on UHD? It's not like there is that much compelling programming on there (besides Battlestar Galactica, I'd say there was nothing).

What I'd personally like to see complete and hopefully live:

Hockey
Snowboarding
Alpine skiing
Skating
maybe bobsled and luge events.

And I'd have to say that considering the ratings, NBC isn't doing a very good job. I, for one, am only watching the hockey on UHD. And to be fair, I'm thrilled that they are showing the hockey live and in hd. But I've given up on NBC...
I completely understand the tape-delay and interrupted event frustration.

I am finding the BBCi multi-screen coverage fantastic - I have never watched Snowboard Cross before - but watched yesterday's coverage from start to finish.

The BBCi Olympic Winter Games multiscreen service is a system where we get a choice of up to 3 un-interrupted live streams (host broadcaster vision with BBC commentary, but no BBC production - i.e. no backgrounders, no BBC replays etc.) - in addition to the main network programme (which is less interrupted than the NBC stuff by the sound of it) where each event is usually shown separately, and replays are mixed with live coverage of events that are likely to appeal to a UK audience. The replays are quite long, though sometimes tightened up, and there are also set-up features to get into replays of earlier events, or to get into live coverage. However the other entrants are covered pretty equally compared to any Brits, as are other heats...

However the BBC operates in a totally different broadcast landscape to NBC - and I quite understand the differences. It has 2 mainstream networks (one of which is showing a LOT of Winter Olympics) and can host up to 8 video streams of interactive content on satellite/cable (and 2 via OTA digital). It doesn't have to accommodate adverts - and can pay for the coverage from the licence fee.

We also only have this in 16:9 SD...
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