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post #541 of 9377 Old 11-16-2006, 03:03 AM
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http://www.hdtvoice.com/voice/showth...708#post163708

This makes 12 NEW HD channels in the past 2 years for Comcast vs. ZERO for TWC. I bet those former Comcast customers that got switched to TWC in the Adelphia fall-out, are extremely happy to pay more and get (much) less HD channels.
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post #542 of 9377 Old 11-16-2006, 10:40 AM
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I just turned on my new set yesterday evening, and we now have HDNet and UHD here in DFW. Surprise, Surprise. Don't know how long it will last, but they are also in the clear on QAM, as well as INHD, but not ESPNHD.
I am pretty pumped about HDNet, that was about the only thing I missed from D* (once Sunday Ticket got so out of reach).
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post #543 of 9377 Old 11-16-2006, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

At first I thought this to be a device to deal with the analog to digital transition, but from the above post, it's purpose seems very different. From the text, one must conclude it's a :"install for each customer" type of device. As we all should know, this IS a real issue. I wonder if this could be deployed to nodes (in my system, it's fiber to a node, then conversion to cooper; each node accommodates about 500 customers and obviously this is all about urban areas as my node is 1/2 block away). Anyway, they are also talking 08 deployment, so nothing to get too excited about. By that time, we may have fully deployed SDV.

HOWEVER, a 8600 series SA box I find VERY curious. No such thing on their site, so it's probably a misprint and should be 8300. Sloppy stuff like that also gives pause as to everything else in the article...

Re "Jeff Huppertz led the development of Scientific-Atlanta's popular 8600 series of digital cable boxes":
http://www.sciatl.com/customers/Source/88d250.pdf
The 8600 series for which Jeff Huppertz reportedly led the development (past tense), was deployed in early 1990's, as described in the above spec sheet for the 8610.

==================================================
An ALL DIGITAL cable system would free up maybe 70-80 analog channels.
That's twice as many as are currently used for Digital. THAT'S HUGE!!!!

And there is nothing to prevent them from retaining the current "Basic" analog tier (about 20 channels), saving the cost of a converter for budget users.

These 50-80 freed up channels could then be used for other purposes, such as two or three HD channels per carrier, On-Demand/PPV including ala carte program downloading (aka IPTV), automatic software updates to HDTV's (under test in San Diego), data broadcasting (news, sports scores, theater skeds, stock prices, et.al.), much higher speed Internet connections and (my favorite) Video Phone service.

==================================================
Of course, for those homes NOT equipped with this new converter, Digital STBs (or CableCard HDTVs) would have access to these new digital channels.

Since some (or all) analog channels versions would no longer be available on the neighborhood cable feed, a Digital-to-Analog channel converter has to placed somewhere between the cable entry point and your TV's---could be the garage to feed multiple TVs.

Presumely this new converter would regenerate the analog channels (e.g. CH21-70+ or even CH2-70+), and COULD allow pass-thru of the higher digital channels.
However, it is not clear what would happen to the NEW digital channels in the CH2-70 positions if only some of your TV's had digital converters (or CableCard)....because the regenerated analog channels would replace them!!!!
They could be upconverted to higher digital channel positions (hmmm, may need better house wiring)....or they could use a Switched Digital Video (SDV) technique (making them incompatible with one-way CableCard)....or maybe they are deployed to individual TV's in "mixed" homes.....and condo/apts.

=================================================
PS: DOCSIS 3.0 doesn't magically push more bits per second. Channel Bonding can be used to LOGICALLY combine three 6 MHz QAM-256 channels (36 Mbps each) into a single 3 x 36 = 106 Mbps data stream. However, there is no net increase in data rate. Two to three HD channels can currently be carried in each QAM channel. With Channel Bonding, several more HD channels can be carried across the three channels due to increased efficiency in the Statistical Mutiplexer. Two or three HD channels is just too small a load to ensure that data bits can be "stolen" from channels with low activity in order to adequately cover bursty data rate requirements on other channels.
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post #544 of 9377 Old 11-17-2006, 04:21 AM
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High definition of greed at play in HDTV flap

(Excerpt) Time Warner (central Ohio) cable subscribers who actually like to benefit from their high definition televisions won't have that chance Saturday during the biggest game ever between No. 1 Ohio State and No. 2 Michigan.

.... Hoping to retain subscribers, Time Warner has given away HD antennas - more than 1,000 so far (at a cost of $20 each to the company).

http://www.columbusdispatch.com/feat...115-G1-03.html
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post #545 of 9377 Old 11-17-2006, 05:59 AM
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From the article above:

(If you have a tuner for your HD set, you just need an antenna to pick up the signal, although it might not be as high-quality as the cable delivery.)

Go Bucks!
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post #546 of 9377 Old 11-17-2006, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osu fan View Post

From the article above:

(If you have a tuner for your HD set, you just need an antenna to pick up the signal, although it might not be as high-quality as the cable delivery.)

Go Bucks!

WHAT??? OTA is far superior to cable.

Go Buckeyes or Wolverines...whoever gets ND to the BCS championship game (although they will probably get routed.)
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post #547 of 9377 Old 11-17-2006, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCsoftball7 View Post

WHAT??? OTA is far superior to cable.

Go Buckeyes or Wolverines...whoever gets ND to the BCS championship game (although they will probably get routed.)


Actually in my opinion OTA is "the same" or "About the same with a little less bandwidth" than my OTA. Guess it depends on how your local cableco gets the stations in and how much they do to it when it gets there.
I get a great picture on the HD Locals here in DFW with TWC, but when I analyze the bandwidth, its still a little less than OTA. So I suspect they are doing a little multiplexing or I think I heard someone call it "bandwidth shaping". I really need to set up another head to head competition, haven't actually done that in a while.
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post #548 of 9377 Old 11-17-2006, 07:27 AM
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TWC South Carolina maintains they pass all HD exactly like they receive it.
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post #549 of 9377 Old 11-17-2006, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osu fan View Post

From the article above:

(If you have a tuner for your HD set, you just need an antenna to pick up the signal, although it might not be as high-quality as the cable delivery.)

Go Bucks!

My reaction was more to the "although it might not be as high-quality as the cable delivery"...what utter nonsense.

Where do people think the cable companies get the broadcast? The more handling of a signal, the greater the likelihood of degradation.
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post #550 of 9377 Old 11-17-2006, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

TWC South Carolina maintains they pass all HD exactly like they receive it.

Even if they're not doing any "rate shaping" (which I don't believe for a second), they're still doing some filtering, or it's done by the STB/DVR itself. Several AVS members have documented the inability of the SA8300 to resolve all 1920 lines of resolution; more like 1200-1300. If anyone in the SC area can do a resolution test pattern examination to verify just what it is, they should post it.

But the point is, there's likely no cable company (or satellite company for that matter) that's delivering full-bore HD resolutions of a caliber like a "raw" OTA broadcast.
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post #551 of 9377 Old 11-17-2006, 05:28 PM
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Somebody posted this in a comcast thread...any truth to it?

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Originally Posted by bgall View Post

Time Warner and Bright House added A&E-HD last week, but I don't think anyone cares cause we never made a post about it

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post #552 of 9377 Old 11-17-2006, 05:46 PM
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I've heard of compresssion and rate-shaping but I don't know what filtering is. If it is dropping line of resolution it seems that would distort the picture.
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post #553 of 9377 Old 11-17-2006, 05:48 PM
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Brighthouse in the Tampa Bay did add A&E HD. It is officially a "preview" until it is permanently added 1/1/07.

I'm guessing this is our "replacement" when INHD2 goes dark on 1/1/07.
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post #554 of 9377 Old 11-18-2006, 02:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Even if they're not doing any "rate shaping" (which I don't believe for a second), they're still doing some filtering, or it's done by the STB/DVR itself. Several AVS members have documented the inability of the SA8300 to resolve all 1920 lines of resolution; more like 1200-1300. If anyone in the SC area can do a resolution test pattern examination to verify just what it is, they should post it.

But the point is, there's likely no cable company (or satellite company for that matter) that's delivering full-bore HD resolutions of a caliber like a "raw" OTA broadcast.


Well, first, only a handful of TVs will resolve 1920 lines - and most of those are your CRT Projectors.

Second, it appears the limitation is most likely in the SA STBs themselves - not the cable companies as cablecards seem to alleviate much of the lower resolution issues.
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post #555 of 9377 Old 11-18-2006, 06:55 AM
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Actually, the "1920" is the horizontal pixel resolution of a 1080i or 1080p signal. "Lines" would refer to the vertical resolution, i.e. 1080 in a 1080p set. Or in a "1080i" signal.

AND AFAIK, 1920 x 1080 sets are mostly LCDs right now.

Interesting about A&E, was that just blind speculation? Not that Id be unhappy about it, but in my system, InHD2 was part of a pay tier. That tier had ESPN HD. So my wild ass speculation would be ESPN2 HD. While I'd FAR prefer A&E, I'd guess the majority would go for ESPN2.

Time Warner NYC (Man North Head End) - 8742HD DVR ODN 5.2.0_9

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post #556 of 9377 Old 11-18-2006, 02:55 PM
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Like they recently did with MSG HD it looks like TWCNYC has made YES HD a full time channel on 708. No longer will have to endure the many times when they forgot to turn the channel on for Nets and Yankee games.
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post #557 of 9377 Old 11-18-2006, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Even if they're not doing any "rate shaping" (which I don't believe for a second), they're still doing some filtering, or it's done by the STB/DVR itself. Several AVS members have documented the inability of the SA8300 to resolve all 1920 lines of resolution; more like 1200-1300. If anyone in the SC area can do a resolution test pattern examination to verify just what it is, they should post it.

But the point is, there's likely no cable company (or satellite company for that matter) that's delivering full-bore HD resolutions of a caliber like a "raw" OTA broadcast.

Complete garbage.
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post #558 of 9377 Old 11-18-2006, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinivey View Post

Complete garbage.

Could you clarify that statement, what are you saying is complete garbage?
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post #559 of 9377 Old 11-19-2006, 01:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebkell View Post

Could you clarify that statement, what are you saying is complete garbage?

well, we know this statement is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

But the point is, there's likely no cable company (or satellite company for that matter) that's delivering full-bore HD resolutions of a caliber like a "raw" OTA broadcast.

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post #560 of 9377 Old 11-19-2006, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebkell View Post

Could you clarify that statement, what are you saying is complete garbage?

Everything he stated. He has no idea what TWC does in South Carolina. I am trying to figure out what exactly the purpose of this thread is. Information varies between system. Nothing appears to be nationally anymore.
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post #561 of 9377 Old 11-19-2006, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinivey View Post

Everything he stated. He has no idea what TWC does in South Carolina. I am trying to figure out what exactly the purpose of this thread is. Information varies between system. Nothing appears to be nationally anymore.


Ok, that's what I figured, but just wanted to make sure, you could have been referring to the test pattern as complete garbage, that was the only reason I asked.
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post #562 of 9377 Old 11-20-2006, 07:33 PM
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I think the reason for this thread is to counter the other thread "What's the next HD channel for Comcast?", but for TWC.
The Comcast thread has about four times the posts as this one, but wait, Comcast actually ADDs HD channels, plays nice with Sinclair stations (as I understand it) to get HD locals and so on.
Comcast also differs in its HD channel offerings from location to location, just as TWC does in HD channel lineups, but eventually, Comcast's HD channel additions do "add up" to more than what TWC has at any given location, at least more recently, IMO...maybe its just me.
So what news is there about HD on Time Warner Cable...there really isn't much...ever...but its worth keeping the thread alive...just in case TWC gets its "act together" and starts playing the Comcast role...adding HD channels!
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post #563 of 9377 Old 11-20-2006, 08:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinivey View Post

I am trying to figure out what exactly the purpose of this thread is.

To give AndyHDTV a place to post his emails from Fred and viceversa - which amounts to no news, high hopes and great disappointment.

I would be more appropiate to label it rumors about TWC or things that I hate about TWC.

There is seldom ever any correct news about TWC in it.
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post #564 of 9377 Old 11-20-2006, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVFanAtic View Post

To give AndyHDTV a place to post his emails from Fred and viceversa - which amounts to no news, high hopes and great disappointment.

because everyone is waiting for those one tiny markets to say "we got XXX in HD at last!" and that means at least TWC is actually adding something somewhere. Sure everyone else might never see it within their lifetime, but at least they know that somewhere that channel exists on TWC.

Like the new multiscreen iTV feature on TWC Hawaii. Sounds cool, and maybe one day the rest of us will see it. We can but hope. It's the only thing we have.


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post #565 of 9377 Old 11-21-2006, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinivey View Post

Complete garbage.

Excuse me, but just what part of my post was, as you so nicely put it, "complete garbage"? There have been a number of posts by AVS gearheads such as John Mason and others who have documented that the resolutions delivered by the SA STB/DVR's are not full-bore HD. Search and ye shall find them. There is clearly filtering going on somewhere in the chain that softens the picture TWC customers get verses those who pull in their HD channels directly over the air. Are you truly ignorant of that issue?
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post #566 of 9377 Old 11-21-2006, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Excuse me, but just what part of my post was, as you so nicely put it, "complete garbage"? There have been a number of posts by AVS gearheads such as John Mason and others who have documented that the resolutions delivered by the SA STB/DVR's are not full-bore HD. Search and ye shall find them. There is clearly filtering going on somewhere in the chain that softens the picture TWC customers get verses those who pull in their HD channels directly over the air. Are you truly ignorant of that issue?

I thought the same. However, it was discovered it was a limitation of the display device. Some ISF guys have confirmed it passes 1920X1080.
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post #567 of 9377 Old 11-21-2006, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCsoftball7 View Post

Some ISF guys have confirmed it passes 1920X1080.

I'm sure it does pass but not consistently.
Probably like Manning. Sometimes like Payton, most of the times like Eli.

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I thought we were cool de la?
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post #568 of 9377 Old 11-21-2006, 10:32 AM
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Just as I thought. Complete utter nonsense Eli garbage.
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post #569 of 9377 Old 11-21-2006, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Like the new multiscreen iTV feature on TWC Hawaii. Sounds cool, and maybe one day the rest of us will see it. We can but hope. It's the only thing we have.

oh boy, if Oceanic Time Warner in Hawaii is the standard of what people are holding out for then the rest of the country has it bad!

i'll trade you the interactive pet adoption channel, the pizza hut ordering channel, and the multi-screen sport channel for all my locals in HD, DVR software that doesn't make me cry, and *any* new HD channel.
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post #570 of 9377 Old 11-21-2006, 11:47 AM
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To pin down whether various TWC headends pass OTA (or fiber-delivered) HDTV significantly unchanged, stations would have to broadcast HDNet's downlinked resolution-wedge test patterns just as headends cablecast them. Very few stations transmit HDNet. That would provide better comparisons, although there still would be variables such as different STBs.

Also, AFAIK, TWC headends pass along the formats, such as 1920X1080i, they receive. They don't reformat them to, say, 1280X1080, like DirecTV's Hd-Lite. Question is, though, how much effective resolution (resolvable detail), if any, is lost when OTA and other program sources are processed at headends?

Haven't counted, but quite a few AVSers around the country reported similar readings to what I got a few years back (and currently) with my 9"-gun CRT RPTV (Philips 64PH9905): <1300 resolvable lines from NYC's TWC. A local ISFer at the time measured about the same (1280 resolvable lines) on a 1366X768 plasma. And this month another local member with a 1080p Ruby FP measured ~1335 lines . Someone on a Calif. TWC system (see last link) indicates he measured ~1920 with his 1080p display, although so far haven't read similar reports. Strictly speaking, all these measurements apply just to the cable channel(s) HDNet is being delivered on.

TWC has admitted to rate shaping signals, although this likely varies between locations. Rate shaping involving requantization , which can take place 'on the fly' without decompressing/recompressing signals, does lessen higher frequencies/resolutions and lets those delivering HD squeeze in more programming (bandwidth 'saving'). STBs also seem to play a role limiting resolvable details; I've measured significant variations between various models and smaller differences between two cable companies (RCN vs. TWC). -- John
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