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post #7381 of 9424 Old 03-24-2010, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

I'm not saying manufacturers shouldn't put out product. I just think that the way things are right now indicates that it may not be a good time to do it. Panasonic put out a very limited number of 3D sets apparently because they claim they sold out quickly (without establishing exactly how many were sold). If it catches on, so be it. I stated earlier I have no gripe with the technology advancing.



I believe some you do. Panasonic's appear to be wireless.

http://www.panasonic.com/3d/Default.aspx

I read somewhere it was 2000 units of the 3D Panny sold.

Wired or wireless, it's still the need to connect, thus tethered.

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post #7382 of 9424 Old 03-24-2010, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCsoftball7 View Post

To me, the only way 3D will fly (in homes) is if it can be done without wearing the glasses. To wear them for a couple of hours, cool...to wear them every moment just to watch TV? Sorry, no sale here.

We already talked about how 3D is more likely to be found in dedicated HTs than televisions around the house. The President of Sony said in the Wall Street Journal he expects glasses-less 3D in about three years.

More evidence of how 3D is catching on -

"Panasonic Claims Strong 3D-TV Sales So Far

Wednesday March 17, 2010

Although prices are high and 3D TV content is essentially non-existent so far, Panasonic is claiming that it has already sold out of its first batch of 3D Plasma TVs and is now taking back-orders. Of course, we don't know how many 3D TVs were made available in the first round of shipments, and we don't know how many back-orders have really been taken. For more details, check out the report from Business Week."
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post #7383 of 9424 Old 03-24-2010, 03:38 PM
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I wonder if these new 3D shutter glasses are going to cause major eye problems for people down the road, especially children who are continually in "development".

Kinda like in the movie The JERK. Anyone wanna bet?
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post #7384 of 9424 Old 03-24-2010, 11:08 PM
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3D VISION PROBLEMS:
Very likely.....I've watched many a blurry demo at CES over the years
and have yet to find a pair of polarized or shutter glasses that didn't
cause problems trying to wear them on top of my regular glasses.
I'll bet prescription shutter glasses will cost more than an arm & a leg:
http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.j...leID=223100762
http://schubincafe.com/
http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.j...1100166&pgno=4
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/3dtv-analysis/
Since shutter glasses lose 3 dB (more than most sunglasses), you're
going to miss low light level details in the video picture and will be
frustrated trying to multi-task on your iPhone, iPad, PC, newspaper, etc...

At least 12% and perhaps 20+% of people have problems SEEING the 3D
effect (including my wife, who has perfect distant vision), with less than
5% of them caused by outright vision loss of one kind or another:
http://nzphoto.tripod.com/sterea/3dvision.htm
http://www.vision3d.com/whycant.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ken-le..._b_148752.html
http://www.connectmidmichigan.com/ne...aspx?id=253449
http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/01/15/3...ion/index.html
They claim 3D vision is something that can be LEARNED!!!!....sometimes...
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post #7385 of 9424 Old 03-25-2010, 07:21 AM
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My 3D experience is pretty limited... although I CAN say the red/blue stuff is terrible. I DID sit through Avatar 3D and gotta say that WAS damn good. Not to mention there COULD have been an issue in that one is MUCH closer to the screen and it really extends beyond your normal field of vision. So the "glasses" were very oversized, so I could shift my eyes around and see all sections of the screen without moving my head.

Same issue, why shutter? At this point, I'd go for a polarized glasses system LONG before I went shutter...

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post #7386 of 9424 Old 03-25-2010, 08:29 AM
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I've seen Polarized HDTV demos at CES...but it requires a
specially built LCD with a polarity switching cell layered on
top of the LCD pixels. The LCD pixels alternatively display
L and R images with the polarizing layer switching between
Vertical and Horizontal polarization. Hence the overall
image alternates between L and R images and the glasses
attenuate (imperfectly) the opposite polarization image.

Cost must be rather high to build the polarized displays.
OTOH, cost is very reasonable to add a polarization layer
on top of a DLP chip....as used in Mitsubishi & Samsung
HDTVs and ("Fake") IMAX 3D theaters:
http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/03/11...replaces-film/

A similar pixel overlay is apparently used in the various
demos I've seen at CES for the "Look Ma, No Glasses" 3D
flat panels...but since the very blurry images DON'T use
polarization, I'm guessing it might use some sort of
MOVABLE? diffraction grating like you see in greeting
cards, etc. where the image changes as you move your
head back and forth.....

"Word on the Street" is that this magical technology is
at least 3-5 years away.....but I don't think it will EVER
be good enough for home use....polarized eye contacts
for EVERYONE might be a better solution....

In active shutter technology, the cost increase is pushed
to the shutter glasses....which "should" come down in
cost whenever this monster goes into mass production,
but if you have a few friends over to watch a 3D "event"
you might want to pass the donation hat.....

I wonder if the active shutter glasses used in theaters
are compatible with any of the new "3D Ready" HDTVs...
Simply reusing theater issued glasses solves this problem.

And my old video card came with a set of active shutter
glasses for playing video games.....how hard is it to
"adapt" these....and other existing 3D glasses.....

About the only technical advantage I know of for active
shutter glasses is a much better ability to switch "OFF"
the image to the opposite eye. Both require running
the image refresh rate at half the "normal" rate, so
120 Hz LCDs would alternate L and R at 60 Hz rate.

FYI: You can't lie down and watch 3D on Samsung 3DTV
LCD but you can on Panasonic 3DTV Plasma:
http://tvtechnology.com/article/97018
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post #7387 of 9424 Old 03-27-2010, 08:37 AM
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Report re Time Warner (which divisions???) carrying "The Masters" Golf Tournament (Apr 7-11) in 3D.
Although I'm no Golf fan, note my comment re "bad venue choice" (no apologies to Simon Cowell)...
and possible "Cinema" vs "Home" 3D viewing distance problem:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=18352469
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=18345354
Be sure to follow links embedded in "appeal of 3D sports for fans has already been established":
http://hd.engadget.com/2010/03/19/co...ast-explained/

CableVision just did a live Hockey broadcast in TRUE 3D...uncovering some problems:
http://sportsvideo.org/main/blog/201...ith-3d-hockey/
http://www.lightreading.com/document...&site=lr_cable
http://www.multichannel.com/article/...stributors.php
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/25/3...f-the-night-w/

"The Masters" and CableVision's Hockey broadcasts employ "side-by-side" data compression,
squeezing both L and R images into a single frame by throwing away half the pixels
in each line, hence 1280x720 is down-rezzed to 640x720 (Q: is that still "HD"?),
whereas Blu-Ray 3D uses sequential format to provide the full resolution capability:
http://hd.engadget.com/2010/01/12/hd...de-by-side-3d/

Sat & Cable systems are limited to lower I/F rates using HDMI v.1.1 thru v.1.3 boxes.
And will be limited to this constraint until HDMI v1.4a STB/DVRs become available with much
higher inteface data rates (current Next Gen boxes are v.1.3 vice 3D Blu-Ray's v.1.4):
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...st_Formats.php
http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/index.aspx

Original "3D Ready" DLPs from Mitsubishi and Samsung reportedly will NOT be "Ready"
since an external (extra cost) 3D converter box is NOT yet "Ready"....

=====================================
Reportedly, there is an exclusivity deal in place to exclude Dishnet, DirecTV, AT&T and FiOS:
http://www.lightreading.com/document...&site=lr_cable
Appears to be a (weak) counter to DirecTV's 3D announcement....exclusive channels in June:
http://www.lightreading.com/document...&site=lr_cable

If they transmit a "Synthetic 3D" signal instead of TRUE 3D, this could seriously impact
future 3DTV sales, esp. after the "Double Fake 3D" demo at the SuperDome (see above).

"Alice in Wonderland" was shot in 2D and then converted to Synthetic 3D, with ample time
for human intervention to guide the automated process:
http://www.straight.com/article-1732...ice-wonderland
This will NOT be possible in live sports events, so they would appear more like cartoons,
with objects assigned to various depth layers, but lacking any sort of depth contours....
http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/92532
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post #7388 of 9424 Old 03-27-2010, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post

"The Masters" and CableVision's Hockey broadcasts employ "side-by-side" data compression,
squeezing both L and R images into a single frame by throwing away half the pixels
in each line, hence 1280x720 becomes 640x720 when displayed (Q: is that still "HD"?),
whereas Blu-Ray uses sequential format to provide the full resolution capability:
http://hd.engadget.com/2010/01/12/hd...de-by-side-3d/

AIUI (not positive), side-by-side 3D-format Masters golf coverage on special HD channels will only be at 1080i, with ~3 hours each day from the last 9 holes. ESPN's standard 720p (weekdays) and CBS's 1080i (weekend) would parallel the 3D-channel coverage part of the time. So the 1080i 3D format would have ~1 million pixels per frame rather than standard HD with ~2 million pixels. 640X720 wouldn't be HD, IMO. -- John
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post #7389 of 9424 Old 03-27-2010, 09:57 AM
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Can you cite a reference for 1080i s-b-s 3D format????

Engadget quote re Hockey on CableVision & consequent projection at Madison Square Garden:
"As for format, the hockey game was shot in 1080i/60 but projected in 720p/60 in the Theater at MSG ."
Bottleneck could have been either CableVision STB's HDMI I/F and/or the DLP Projector....
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post #7390 of 9424 Old 03-27-2010, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post

Can you cite a reference for 1080i s-b-s 3D format????

Update, from Display Daily:

Quote:


....the final cuts are multiplexed and encoded using the RealD scheme. This features a version of checkerboard or quincunx filtering (sampling) of the two video streams, which are then packed in a side-by-side configuration for transmission. This encoded signal is now a 20 Mbps 1920 x 1080/60i feed that goes directly to the Cablevision plant for distribution to subscribers. This high quality feed is passed right through to subscribers into the set top box and over HDMI to the 3DTV.

Quote:


....there was some discussion about decoding the RealD signal at the Cablevision plant and re-encoding in a non-proprietary filtering and packing format (the simple decimated side-by-side format which is a mandatory broadcast format according the HDMI 1.4a). But ultimately, the signal was passed right thru to consumers. The upside of this approach should be a higher quality image. The downside is that the signal should only be viewable on 3D displays that have RealD decoding embedded in them, such as the 3DTV sets from Panasonic and Samsung (who was a sponsor of the event).


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post #7391 of 9424 Old 03-27-2010, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post

Can you cite a reference for 1080i s-b-s 3D format????

Got my info from various posts this week with Ron, who wrote the FAQ for the 3D Display section of AVS 3D. Not official, but he went into great detail. (A visit to the FAQ, then a search by user name should locate posts.) -- John
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post #7392 of 9424 Old 03-29-2010, 07:20 AM
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Bright House Birmingham, Alabama has announced The Sportsman's Channel in HD.

http://birmingham.brighthouse.com/pr...s/default.aspx

Since Bright House Piggybacks on TWC's deals, it is very possible Time Warner has a deal for this channel.
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post #7393 of 9424 Old 03-29-2010, 07:40 AM
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Thanks, here's the Display Daily article re CableVision's 3D "demo":
http://displaydaily.com/2010/03/25/c...n-3d-telecast/
Since I'm currently watching on a 6-year old 1024x1080i panel, if 960x1080i is the "interim"
standard for 3D, I shouldn't complain TOO much....but when I upgrade, I want to make sure
I'll be able to display 1920x1080p (progressive) 3D signals when they become available in the
future (next year?) in Next-Next Gen STB/DVRs with MPEG4 IPTV....and HDMI 1.4a vice 1.3.

Unfortunately, I suspect that "sports" channels might chose 640x720p side-by-side format
for the same reasons they currently use 720p....a faster frame rate....but lower resolution....

BTW: New 3DTV sets have RealD embedded into them...older Mitsubishi (& Samsung)
need an external 3D Adapter, not yet available....but "soon":
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...9422&Itemid=47
http://hdguru.com/legacy-samsung-3d-...-directv/1386/
But if it is only designed to work with HDMI 1.4 for Blu-Ray (sequential),
can/will it be upgraded for 1.4a (includes side-by-side)??? Hope they have a plan.....

Same concern re 3DTVs....will they be upgradeable to HDMI 1.4a Cable, SAT & OTA formats???
Or will they always be limited to lower rez "kludge" formats....built-in obsolescence....
In the meantime, I'm advising my friends & family to wait for the dust to settle out....
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post #7394 of 9424 Old 03-29-2010, 09:53 AM
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Ok....back on topic now, did any recieve and new HD channels in Ohio this month yet? I posted some new additions last month and we have yet to receive those channels. I'm kind of disapointed they usually deliver on their promises to add new channels.
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post #7395 of 9424 Old 03-31-2010, 09:29 AM
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Need some advice: I have the Motorola HD box and I have the (seemingly known) problem in which the DVR will record series recordings on the SD rather than HD channel even when configured to the HD channel. I am told this happens when the HD channel has the exact same name as the SD version, without adding something like a "D" or "HD" at the end.

So, I figured I would do a chat with TWC and find out who I should talk to about possibly changing our local channel names to avoid this problem, and she said a tech could come out and "synchronize" the box, which would help it get a stronger signal and this may solve the problem.

Does that sound right? Is that likely to do any good at all?

I keep my huge Blu-ray collection stored at Netflix. :0)
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post #7396 of 9424 Old 03-31-2010, 12:54 PM
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That's got to be the stupidest CS story I've heard. I need to get a job with TW. Just leave my brain at home and schedule a service call for every kind of problem reported.

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post #7397 of 9424 Old 03-31-2010, 01:12 PM
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Yet another unresolved 3D problem: incompatible, non-standard,
3D glasses make it even more difficult to watch program as a group:
http://tvtechnology.com/article/97550
Another reason to sit back and let this all sort itself out....
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post #7398 of 9424 Old 04-02-2010, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phousley View Post

That's got to be the stupidest CS story I've heard. I need to get a job with TW. Just leave my brain at home and schedule a service call for every kind of problem reported.

I know I'm in the wrong Forum, But I've got one just as good for you.
I called Cox to tell them they were broadcasting a West Coast feed on a channel (which was correct), But the guide listings were for the East Coast feed. The CS Rep told me either my signal levels were bad or I had a bad box and would send out a Tech. I promptly declined and asked for a supervisor.

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post #7399 of 9424 Old 04-05-2010, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Known Deals Done With TWC, Not Available in All Areas

HD PPV
HD Movies OnDemand
HD Adult OnDemand
HD Showcase OnDemand

HBO-HD
HBO2-HD
HBO Family-HD
HBO Comedy-HD
HBO Signature-HD
HBO Zone-HD
HBO Latino-HD
Cinemax-HD
MoreMax-HD
ActionMAX-HD
5StarMAX-HD
ThrillerMAX-HD
WMAX-HD
@MAX-HD
OuterMAX-HD

Showtime-HD
Showtime 2-HD
ShowCase-HD
ShowExtreme-HD
The Movie Channel-HD
TMCxtra-HD

Starz-HD
Starz Comedy-HD
Starz Edge-HD
Starz Kids & Family-HD
Encore-HD

TNT-HD
TBS-HD
CNN-HD
Cartoon Network-HD
truTV-HD
TCM-HD
HLN-HD

Disney Channel-HD
ABC Family-HD
Toon Disney-HD
ESPN-HD
ESPN 2-HD
ESPN News-HD
ESPN U-HD

Fox News-HD
Fox Business Network-HD
National Geographic-HD
FX-HD
Speed-HD
Big Ten Network-HD
Fox Soccer Channel-HD
Fox Soccer Plus-HD
Nat Geo Wild-HD

Palladia-HD
Nickelodeon-HD
Spike-HD
County Music Channel-HD
BET-HD
MTV-HD
VH1-HD
Comedy Central-HD

Universal-HD
The Weather Channel-HD
Sci-Fi-HD
Bravo-HD
USA-HD
CNBC-HD
MSNBC-HD

TV One-HD
E! Entertainment-HD
Style-HD
G4-HD
Versus-HD
Golf-HD

A&E-HD
History Channel-HD
History International-HD
Biography-HD
Crime & Investigation-HD
Lifetime Movie Network-HD

Discovery HD Theater
The Science Channel-HD
The Discovery Channel-HD
The Learning Channel-HD
Animal Planet-HD
Planet Green-HD
Investigation Discovery-HD

FUSE-HD
IFC-HD
AMC-HD
WE-HD

Food Network-HD
HGTV-HD
Travel Channel-HD

Hallmark Movie Channel-HD
Hallmark-HD

MGM-HD
QVC-HD
HSN-HD
Smithsonian-HD
MavTV-HD
The Outdoor Channel-HD
CBS College Sports-HD
The Tennis Channel-HD
Game-HD (MLB Extra Innings & NHL Center Ice in HD)
Team-HD (NBA League Pass in HD)
NHL Network-HD
MLB Network-HD
NBA TV-HD
RFD-HD
WGN America-HD
BBC America-HD
Jewlery TV-HD
Gospel Music Channel-HD
NHK World-HD
NASA-HD

Cooking-HD (Fine Living) --- (Launched on May 31st) Coming soon to various TWC Systems
Lifetime Television-HD --- (Coming soon to TWC in San Diego)
Sundance-HD --- (Coming soon to TWC in San Diego & NYC)
TV Land-HD --- (Coming soon to TWC in San Diego)
Pentagon Channel-HD --- (Coming soon to TWC in San Diego)
Discovery Kids-HD --- (Coming soon to TWC in NYC)
DIY-HD --- (Coming soon to TWC in NYC)
Ovation TV-HD --- (Launching in July 2010) --- (Coming soon to TWC in NYC)
REELZCHANNEL-HD --- (Launching in July of 2010) --- (Coming soon to TWC in NYC)
GolTV-HD --- (Launching in August 2010) --- (Coming soon to TWC in NYC)
ShowBeyond-HD --- (Launching in 2010) --- (Coming soon to TWC in NYC)
ShowWomen-HD --- (Launching in 2010) --- (Coming soon to TWC in NYC)
ShowNext-HD --- (Launching in 2010) --- (Coming soon to TWC in NYC)
TV Guide-HD --- (Launching in 2010) --- (Coming soon to TWC in NYC)



Negotiations Unknown With TWC


Cars.TV-HD
Pets.TV-HD
Comedy.TV-HD
MyDestination.TV-HD
ES.TV-HD
Recipe.TV-HD
Centric-HD
LOGO-HD
HDNet
HDNet Movies
Wealth TV-HD
Fashion TV-HD
Hustler-HD
TBN-HD
EWTN-HD
Fuel-HD
MTN-HD
World Fishing Network-HD
NFL Network-HD
NFL Redzone-HD
Sportsman Channel-HD
IndiePlex-HD
RetroPlex-HD
Epix-HD
Epix2-HD

Starz In Black HD --- (Channel Launching in 1h of 2010)
Starz Cinema HD --- (Channel Launching in 1h of 2010)
C-SPAN-HD --- (Channel Launching on June 1st 2010)
C-SPAN 2-HD --- (Channel Launching on June 1st 2010)
C-SPAN 3-HD --- (Channel Launching in July 2010)
Africa Channel --- (Channel Launching in August 2010)
Sprout-HD --- (Channel Launching in September 2010)
Fox College Sports-HD --- (Channel Launching in 2010)
Fox Movie Channel-HD --- (Channel Launching in 2010)
Fox Sports En Espanol-HD --- (Channel Launching in 2010)
BTNC-HD --- (Channel Launching in 2010)
BE Network-HD --- (Channel Launching in late 2010 or early 2011)
OWN-HD (Discovery Health) --- (Channel Launching in 2011)
Disney Junior-HD (SOAPnet) --- (Channel Launching in 2012)
ShowFamilyZone-HD --- (Channel Launch TBA)
FLIX-HD --- (Channel Launch TBA)
SI TV-HD --- (Channel Launch TBA)
BBN-HD --- (Channel Launch TBA)
Qubo-HD --- (Channel Launch TBA)
ION Life-HD --- (Channel Launch TBA)
MTV2-HD --- (Channel Launch TBA)
Chiller-HD --- (Channel Launch TBA)
Sleuth-HD --- (Channel Launch TBA)
Universal Sports Network-HD --- (Channel Launch TBA)
Oxygen-HD --- (Channel Launch TBA)

Email Melinda Witmer at TWC Corporate, the SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT & CHIEF PROGRAMMING OFFICER if you want more HD Channels!!!
Melinda.Witmer@twcable.com
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No longer a subscriber. Not a sports fan and couldn't justify paying them for the just plain dumb cable HD channels they carry. I get locals OTA in better quality and use a TiVO for time shifting. Netflix streaming through Roku and and a Dell Zino HTPC round out my content.

So I recently see an ad for TWC on local TV. When they mention HD, logos for TCM HD, BBC America HD, and Comedy Central HD fly by. I probably would have stayed if these channels were available.

I chatted with the folks at TWC who told me they advertise those channels locally because they could be available in my area soon, but they're not right now.

How misleading (and possibly illegal) this is. Typical.

I'm a former Adelphia. My neighborhood is up against a south facing hill, so satellite not really an option - althought I'm in a much better place for OTA. With little competition, infrastructure hasn't been updated in much too long. U-Verse is available and I'm running Hot/Cold on this. Do I really want to have my house torn up for a copper last mile? I kind of think this is like pouring a gallon of water through a funnel.
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post #7401 of 9424 Old 04-07-2010, 02:49 PM
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My local ABC HD channel only comes in at 480p. Who should I be complaining to, the station or TWC?

I keep my huge Blu-ray collection stored at Netflix. :0)
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post #7402 of 9424 Old 04-07-2010, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Vance14 View Post

My local ABC HD channel only comes in at 480p. Who should I be complaining to, the station or TWC?

Check the Local HDTV Info thread for your location here and see if over-the-air viewers are experiencing it as well. If they aren't then contact TW.
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post #7403 of 9424 Old 04-07-2010, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Vance14 View Post

My local ABC HD channel only comes in at 480p. Who should I be complaining to, the station or TWC?

Are you sure your local ABC station is even broadcasting an HD feed? Aren't you out in the Time Warner Yuma/El Centro system?

And the FOUL!
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post #7404 of 9424 Old 04-07-2010, 04:22 PM
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To me, the only way 3D will fly (in homes) is if it can be done without wearing the glasses. To wear them for a couple of hours, cool...to wear them every moment just to watch TV? Sorry, no sale here.

I'm in total agreement!

Santa Claus has the right idea...visit people only once a year...Victor Borge
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post #7405 of 9424 Old 04-07-2010, 10:37 PM
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I am happy with the HD channels that TWC has but I don't cable DVRs and I'm getting tired of Tivo.
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post #7406 of 9424 Old 04-08-2010, 06:15 AM
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I am happy with the HD channels that TWC has but I don't cable DVRs and I'm getting tired of Tivo.

What are you saying?
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post #7407 of 9424 Old 04-08-2010, 09:23 AM
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Are you sure your local ABC station is even broadcasting an HD feed? Aren't you out in the Time Warner Yuma/El Centro system?

Yes, I am, but they have both a channel in the SD range and one in the HD range (700's), so I am presuming that it is HD. I have tried to write to them to find out what the situation is, but they have not written back.

I keep my huge Blu-ray collection stored at Netflix. :0)
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post #7408 of 9424 Old 04-08-2010, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by bidger View Post

Check the Local HDTV Info thread for your location here and see if over-the-air viewers are experiencing it as well. If they aren't then contact TW.

unfortunately, there is no thread for our area that I can see. Problem with living in a rural area.

I keep my huge Blu-ray collection stored at Netflix. :0)
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post #7409 of 9424 Old 04-08-2010, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Vance14 View Post

My local ABC HD channel only comes in at 480p. Who should I be complaining to, the station or TWC?

Be SURE to post the explanation when you have it!
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post #7410 of 9424 Old 04-08-2010, 11:42 AM
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Be SURE to post the explanation when you have it!

Will do!

I keep my huge Blu-ray collection stored at Netflix. :0)
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