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post #8671 of 9373 Old 11-13-2011, 09:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Stan54 View Post

My goodness, the movie channels MGM, AMC and TWC look absolutely brillant here on TWC. It's hard to take my eyes off of them. Marvelous HD picture.

I think you need some prescription glasses.
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post #8672 of 9373 Old 11-14-2011, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by jcalabria View Post

Already running MPEG4 for certain season pass sports package HD channels... definitely in Charlotte and I believe Central NY as well. Biggest obstacle to wider deployment is that only the newer generations of boxes can do MPEG4. All those 8300/4200 and older series boxes don't.

Hmm...it seems like it's going to have to be one of those things where they have to set a date to have it done by, no? Or do they not believe it's a priority?

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post #8673 of 9373 Old 11-14-2011, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by DigitalfreakNYC View Post

Hmm...it seems like it's going to have to be one of those things where they have to set a date to have it done by, no? Or do they not believe it's a priority?

Still a lot of those older boxes out there, but at least they are starting the process, and doing it in a controlled manner (starting with low penetration services). Here in NC they are even offering to swap older boxes for season pass subscribers VIA MAIL ORDER, including the return of the old box. They are guaranteeing availability of up to four MPEG4 boxes per household that subscribes to eligible services.

I don't think its much of a priority in NYC for sure, where bandwidth availability is not yet as big of a concern as it is elsewhere and they have not (AFAIK) fully deployed SDV yet (in comparison, here in Charlotte we are essentially 100% SDV). On the other hand, we still have a nearly full complement of analogs running here, with only three deleted so far from the classic 50-550MHz analog package. I suspect we we will see further reductions in analog count to reclaim bandwidth before we see more any widespread deployment of MPEG4 distribution of mainstream programming.

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post #8674 of 9373 Old 11-14-2011, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by jcalabria View Post

Still a lot of those older boxes out there, but at least they are starting the process, and doing it in a controlled manner (starting with low penetration services). Here in NC they are even offering to swap older boxes for season pass subscribers VIA MAIL ORDER, including the return of the old box. They are guaranteeing availability of up to four MPEG4 boxes per household that subscribes to eligible services.

I don't think its much of a priority in NYC for sure, where bandwidth availability is not yet as big of a concern as it is elsewhere and they have not (AFAIK) fully deployed SDV yet (in comparison, here in Charlotte we are essentially 100% SDV). On the other hand, we still have a nearly full complement of analogs running here, with only three deleted so far from the classic 50-550MHz analog package. I suspect we we will see further reductions in analog count to reclaim bandwidth before we see more any widespread deployment of MPEG4 distribution of mainstream programming.

In NYC, we currently now have 12 QAM channels for SDV - they have yet to move anything significant over to it though - just anything they've been adding over the last year+, along with the sports packages. We're at about 130 channels in our lineup in SDV - about half are HD.

They had announced plans for major SDV movement over a year ago, but didn't go thru with it.

we also still have over 30 analog channels still in service.... all locals, along with a few others (TBS, CSPAN, TV Guide, Food)
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post #8675 of 9373 Old 11-14-2011, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Berk32 View Post

In NYC, we currently now have 12 QAM channels for SDV - they have yet to move anything significant over to it though - just anything they've been adding over the last year+, along with the sports packages. We're at about 130 channels in our lineup in SDV - about half are HD.

They had announced plans for major SDV movement over a year ago, but didn't go thru with it.

we also still have over 30 analog channels still in service.... all locals, along with a few others (TBS, CSPAN, TV Guide, Food)

Thanks. That's about where I thought NYC was currently at... whereas the rest of TWCs footprint still has their full complement of (close to) 78 analogs and is running 750MHz plant, while NYC has either 860MHz or 1GHz plant.

Even with the near 100% SDV deployment, the bandwidth squeeze here has resulted in massive and unacceptable reductions in PQ here over the past 9 months or so... something has to change but I suspect it will be analog reduction well before it is any widespread MPEG4 rollout.

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post #8676 of 9373 Old 11-14-2011, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jcalabria View Post

Thanks. That's about where I thought NYC was currently at... whereas the rest of TWCs footprint still has their full complement of (close to) 78 analogs and is running 750MHz plant, while NYC has either 860MHz or 1GHz plant.

Even with the near 100% SDV deployment, the bandwidth squeeze here has resulted in massive and unacceptable reductions in PQ here over the past 9 months or so... something has to change but I suspect it will be analog reduction well before it is any widespread MPEG4 rollout.

NYC is 860MHz (and i'm still not sure how they're using the last 4 channels - some say on demand but i've yet to see it myself)
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post #8677 of 9373 Old 11-14-2011, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by scorpiontail60 View Post

I think you need some prescription glasses.

Seriously, Hell On Wheels on AMC and The Silence of the Lambs on MGM were crystal clear and with the sharpest definition one could hope for with HD. I tend to jump around the dial quite a bit and these channels as well as TCM looked just great. There must be parts of the country that do not receive high quality service. That is unfortunate and I hope that it can be corrected. HD pictures like this are simply stunning and everyone should be seeing the same thing.
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post #8678 of 9373 Old 11-14-2011, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Stan54 View Post

There must be parts of the country that do not receive high quality service. .

Bit rates per channel vary by system. It may indeed look very good for some.

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post #8679 of 9373 Old 11-14-2011, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by STEELERSRULE View Post

Just looked at my TWC statement online for next month:

I went from $115.99(before taxes and fees) to $130.98(before taxes and fees). Boy, am I P**sed off! That is like a 13% increase(off the top of my head).

I have RoadRunner Standard, and Digital Cable Bundled, with 2 HD SA4250 Boxes and remotes.

And my only options are either this, or DirecTV, and Dish(with no broadband).

I am thinking on going to the TWC office and complain to see if I can at least get the cost back downto where it was, or at least cut in half. An $8 increase I can live with. And I am NOT going to add Digital Voice. No way.

Would I just be wasting my time? Should I even bother? And if I do go, should I ask to speak to a Supervisor, and not the young ladies who work the counter(who are very nice by the way where I live. I would not go in with an attitude)?

And this is a warning to those of you who get TWC via NEOPA(Northeast Ohio and Western PA).

I can't believe this. I am done ranting/fuming. 13%(at least) increase!? WTF!?

13% LOL how about going from $55 to $113 in one month. And that's just with digital cable with a DVR (nothing else). I called and they were able to get it down to $81. But I'm still not happy. And that was with threatening to switch to Directv.
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post #8680 of 9373 Old 11-14-2011, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by STEELERSRULE View Post

Just looked at my TWC statement online for next month:

I went from $115.99(before taxes and fees) to $130.98(before taxes and fees). Boy, am I P**sed off! That is like a 13% increase(off the top of my head).

I have RoadRunner Standard, and Digital Cable Bundled, with 2 HD SA4250 Boxes and remotes.

And my only options are either this, or DirecTV, and Dish(with no broadband).

I am thinking on going to the TWC office and complain to see if I can at least get the cost back downto where it was, or at least cut in half. An $8 increase I can live with. And I am NOT going to add Digital Voice. No way.

Would I just be wasting my time? Should I even bother? And if I do go, should I ask to speak to a Supervisor, and not the young ladies who work the counter(who are very nice by the way where I live. I would not go in with an attitude)?

And this is a warning to those of you who get TWC via NEOPA(Northeast Ohio and Western PA).

I can't believe this. I am done ranting/fuming. 13%(at least) increase!? WTF!?

First, I think you would be wasting your time going to the local office. I think you'll have better luck calling the TWC number and talking to the billing department. Ask them how you can get back to your old rate.

They may have a promotion that they can give you that will lower your rate for a year. They may offer you some additional service as compensation instead.

You also have the option of discontinuing a DVR and just using their converter box if you currently have two DVR's, You even have the option of connecting a TV directly to the cable without their box at all if you have a TV that includes a QAM tuner. You will only get the major local stations if you do that, but you can get them in HD.

You can keep TWC for internet and switch to a satellite TV service, I don't think that will be cheaper, but you could use it as a threat if you are really willing to do it.

You can also explore Verizon or AT&T's offerings in your area. In my case AT&T isn't cheaper.
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post #8681 of 9373 Old 11-14-2011, 04:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bdfox18doe View Post

Bit rates per channel vary by system. It may indeed look very good for some.

Nope! AMC master satellite distribution feed is 8 Mbps MPEG-2. Even Verizon FiOS subscribers receive this feed. If your Time Warner feed of AMC has a higher bitrate then that means they're being stupid and re-encoding it to a higher bitrate, reducing quality whilst wasting additional bandwidth.

AMC HD is **** for everyone. If you think 1080i MPEG-2 at a bitrate of 8 Mbps is "the sharpest definition one could hope for with HD" then something is wrong with your vision.
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post #8682 of 9373 Old 11-14-2011, 04:58 PM
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I'm not quite sure why everyone is complaining about their rates being raised. TWC is doing EVERYTHING in its power to make sure your rates don't get raised by niche programming (like NFL Network). They would rather raise your rates for a good reason, like more money in their pockets.

In all seriousness, I returned 2 HD boxes (which I haven't watched for 2 years) and my rate RAISED by $40 per month. OUCH!!!
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post #8683 of 9373 Old 11-14-2011, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by scorpiontail60 View Post

Nope! AMC master satellite distribution feed is 8 Mbps MPEG-2. Even Verizon FiOS subscribers receive this feed. If your Time Warner feed of AMC has a higher bitrate then that means they're being stupid and re-encoding it to a higher bitrate, reducing quality whilst wasting additional bandwidth.

AMC HD is **** for everyone. If you think 1080i MPEG-2 at a bitrate of 8 Mbps is "the sharpest definition one could hope for with HD" then something is wrong with your vision.

You need to read more and type less...What I said was "bit rates VARY by TWC system"..and that it" may look good to SOME". Some TWC systems may be reducing it even more than what the distro feed is making it look like real poo. (Not that would happen here with TWC) You can't soley associate PQ with bit rates..it depends on the vintage;algorithms and setup of the encoder being used..A 1999 Harris Flexicoder will not look near as good as a 2010 Harmonic Electra 9000 running the same bit rate.

As to AMC HD being **** for everyone..That is higly subjective...maybe you should be kind enough to call up the folks at AMC and show them the error of their ways?

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post #8684 of 9373 Old 11-14-2011, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bdfox18doe View Post


As to AMC HD being **** for everyone..That is higly subjective...maybe you should be kind enough to call up the folks at AMC and show them the error of their ways?

They already know the error of their ways. Cramming 4 HD channels into one qam tends to result is poor quality along with IFC/WE/Fuse.
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post #8685 of 9373 Old 11-14-2011, 05:33 PM
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They already know the error of their ways. Cramming 4 HD channels into one qam tends to result is poor quality along with IFC/WE/Fuse.

Agreed, as with TWC..it is a concious choice.. decisions which are being made by bean counters and marketing folks (not engineers)..who know nothing about and could care less....nor see.. about quality.. Plus you have to remember..the US consumer accepted VHS and its inferior quality over that of beta and its superior quality.

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post #8686 of 9373 Old 11-14-2011, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bdfox18doe View Post

You need to read more and type less...What I said was "bit rates VARY by TWC system"..and that it" may look good to SOME". Some TWC systems may be reducing it even more than what the distro feed is making it look like real poo. (Not that would happen here with TWC) You can't soley associate PQ with bit rates..it depends on the vintage;algorithms and setup of the encoder being used..A 1999 Harris Flexicoder will not look near as good as a 2010 Harmonic Electra 9000 running the same bit rate.

As to AMC HD being **** for everyone..That is higly subjective...maybe you should be kind enough to call up the folks at AMC and show them the error of their ways?

"beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
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post #8687 of 9373 Old 11-14-2011, 06:23 PM
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AMC, MGM and TCM look AT LEAST as good as any other HD channel on my set and they all look very, very good. Scorpion is mistaken about the picture quality of what I am seeing.
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post #8688 of 9373 Old 11-14-2011, 07:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Stan54 View Post

AMC, MGM and TCM look AT LEAST as good as any other HD channel on my set and they all look very, very good. Scorpion is mistaken about the picture quality of what I am seeing.



You can't educate those who don't desire to listen.
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post #8689 of 9373 Old 11-15-2011, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Stan54 View Post

AMC, MGM and TCM look AT LEAST as good as any other HD channel on my set and they all look very, very good. Scorpion is mistaken about the picture quality of what I am seeing.

That is the excuse TWC uses for their poor HD quality at times..especially
with local stations. I am NOT happy with the quality of my video carriage on TWC and have made it known to them..their excuse is it looks as good as anything else on the cable. Sad thing is..it CAN look really good if they want
it to.

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post #8690 of 9373 Old 11-15-2011, 05:53 AM
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I guess we are just blessed with a great TWC system here in Central Maine.
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post #8691 of 9373 Old 11-15-2011, 05:55 AM
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Compared to what?
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post #8692 of 9373 Old 11-15-2011, 06:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bdfox18doe View Post

That is the excuse TWC uses for their poor HD quality at times..especially
with local stations. I am NOT happy with the quality of my video carriage on TWC and have made it known to them..their excuse is it looks as good as anything else on the cable. Sad thing is..it CAN look really good if they want
it to.

No it can't. The feeds for most of the networks are absolute ****. Anything less than 30 Mbps for MPEG-2 or 15 Mbps for H.264 is sub-par, inferior to Blu-ray video.

Whilst Time Warner may be exacerbating the issue by further re-encoding the network feeds, the only channels with proper bitrates are ABC, CBS, and NBC's, prior to being re-encoded by an affiliate and then distributed on cable or over-the-air.

ABC master satellite distro feed is 24 Mbps H.264; NBC is 17 Mbps H.264; and CBS is 36 Mbps MPEG-2. All the cable networks are distributed at 17 Mbps MPEG-2 or less...
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post #8693 of 9373 Old 11-15-2011, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by scorpiontail60 View Post

No it can't. The feeds for most of the networks are absolute ****. Anything less than 30 Mbps for MPEG-2 or 15 Mbps for H.264 is sub-par, inferior to Blu-ray video.

Whilst Time Warner may be exacerbating the issue by further re-encoding the network feeds, the only channels with proper bitrates are ABC, CBS, and NBC's, prior to being re-encoded by an affiliate and then distributed on cable or over-the-air.

ABC master satellite distro feed is 24 Mbps H.264; NBC is 17 Mbps H.264; and CBS is 36 Mbps MPEG-2. All the cable networks are distributed at 17 Mbps MPEG-2 or less...

You're really out there with your "opinion" on this one..Since the average viewer will never see such high bit-rate feeds they are irrelevant to them. I see 1.5gbs uncompressed HD feeds everyday in a studio environment on professional monitors..as well as all the distro feeds. (with C and Ku antennas and commerical IRD's at home that see those feeds to compare to TWC, Dish,& DirecTv) And with +60 encoders and nearly 30 multiplexers..know what MPEG 2 and 4 feeds look like before the cable companies screw it up. Is ATSC sub par compared to bluray? well YES..and so is filet compared to chicken. But it is what it is..and TWC could do much, much better than they do with the bit rates..Which by the way, are not usually re-encoded..they are transrated (re-quantized)..there is a difference. Usually with CISCO DCM's..which may or may not be configured the same way between systems.

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/coll...30/7004373.pdf

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post #8694 of 9373 Old 11-15-2011, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Stan54 View Post

I guess we are just blessed with a great TWC system here in Central Maine.

Doubtful. There are plenty of threads here on the poor quality of AMC. Your TWC can't be providing a higher quality feed because there is no such thing since it is low quality from the source.
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post #8695 of 9373 Old 11-15-2011, 09:28 AM
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Been reading this thread,

Is there any verified statistical data on bandwidth rates for TWC across systems and divisions? I certainly think that some TWC divisions are better than others, in some cases far better than others. Could that be an influence in picture quality? There are so many variables with picture quality, signal levels and nodes, that if a user from Maine is getting excellent PQ from TWC, shouldn't he be given the benefit of the doubt? Without actually seeing the picture on different channels and in different divisions, and without an assessment of a users' signal strength reading, box settings, even sometimes type and age of TV/type of hook up. (i.e HDMI vs Component) I don't think we can judge one way or the other.

To the poster in Maine, glad you are getting excellent PQ! What box make and model do you have?

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post #8696 of 9373 Old 11-15-2011, 10:12 AM
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Thought I'd mention that some new HD channels showed up today in Cincinnati (SW Ohio region?). Three new HBO's, Fox Sports Ohio Alternate, which will be nice when there is a programming conflict (though with the NBA on lockout it won't be as big of an issue this year), and Game Show Network HD. I'm really confused by that one, though. Isn't most of the programming from back in the 70's and 80's? I turned it on this morning and found Family Feud with Richard Dawson. I can't imagine there will be much HD programming on this channel. Also just realized that YES HD and NESN HD are on now as well. In my opinion these don't add much either because we won't get any pro sports on there, so I'm not sure what HD programming we will see on here either.
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post #8697 of 9373 Old 11-15-2011, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by rrainwater View Post

Your TWC can't be providing a higher quality feed because there is no such thing since it is low quality from the source.

You'll be lucky at best if it is even close to being as good as the source.

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post #8698 of 9373 Old 11-15-2011, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by danc8379 View Post

Thought I'd mention that some new HD channels showed up today in Cincinnati (SW Ohio region?). Three new HBO's, Fox Sports Ohio Alternate, which will be nice when there is a programming conflict (though with the NBA on lockout it won't be as big of an issue this year), and Game Show Network HD. I'm really confused by that one, though. Isn't most of the programming from back in the 70's and 80's? I turned it on this morning and found Family Feud with Richard Dawson. I can't imagine there will be much HD programming on this channel. Also just realized that YES HD and NESN HD are on now as well. In my opinion these don't add much either because we won't get any pro sports on there, so I'm not sure what HD programming we will see on here either.

The new GSN originals and the shows from maybe the last 1-2 years will be HD, which is nice. I think the old classics will still have the SD sidebars. We got GSN HD and about five other HD stations last month in Wisconsin. YES-HD and NESN-HD we have had for several months.

Jack

SA-8300-HDC: TWC Navigator: ODN 7.2.11

Metro-Milwaukee Wisconsin

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post #8699 of 9373 Old 11-15-2011, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by bdfox18doe View Post

You'll be lucky at best if it is even close to being as good as the source.

Actually, with those 4 channels, I haven't noticed TWC doing much to the feed at all.
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post #8700 of 9373 Old 11-15-2011, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by rrainwater View Post

Actually, with those 4 channels, I haven't noticed TWC doing much to the feed at all.

Anytime multiple channels are muxed together and modulated out there are flaws in the picture quality. Any system anywhere needs to have their best people choosing which sources and feeds to commonly mux together. Be it sports,news/weather, and movies how much Clamping and how the bit rate is squeezed into a 256-QAM leaving very little nul pids is important.

Also unless you have seen in person C/Ku-band feeds and compared them to OTA and Cable you can not just look at bit rates.It does not tell everything!!..End of story, do not google and throw crap on this forum about what you read..Googling...(scorpiontail60)

Rob

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