D*HD-Lite vs E* HD screenshot thread *WARNING - LARGE PICTURE FILES TO LOAD* - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 346 Old 08-23-2006, 04:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

What decoder and player are you using for your screen captures? Both screenshots are soft, soft, soft.

VRD, DGIndex, mpeg-vcr, VLC and WMP with Dscaler video decoder. File size reduced using Photoshop (No way I'm gonna post 6 Mb jpeg files). Anyways my primary aim here is a comparison shots to which some differences are very obvious.

You want to see them sharp your just gonna have to watch them.
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post #182 of 346 Old 08-23-2006, 05:05 AM
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It is still possible to see that D*'s version is worse. The differences in the explosion at the back of the car are quite noticeable.
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post #183 of 346 Old 08-23-2006, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

VRD, DGIndex, mpeg-vcr, VLC and WMP with Dscaler video decoder.

No wonder they're so damn soft. We're probably seeing only half the resolution of the actual frame.
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post #184 of 346 Old 08-23-2006, 05:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow. You are definitely missing the point that I'm trying to make here.
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post #185 of 346 Old 08-23-2006, 07:01 AM
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The point was made with the first set of screenshots. D sucks more than E which isn't that good to begin with. I wouldn't pay for either one.
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post #186 of 346 Old 08-23-2006, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

No wonder they're so damn soft. We're probably seeing only half the resolution of the actual frame.

Yeah they are not the actual frame. Both have been softened for upload purposes. But esentially he is doing the same thing to both and then compare (the difference will still be there)
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post #187 of 346 Old 08-25-2006, 05:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cucuy View Post

Yeah they are not the actual frame. Both have been softened for upload purposes. But esentially he is doing the same thing to both and then compare (the difference will still be there)

Thank you. I couldn't have explained it better.

No way I'm going to upload 6 mb individual files on a high traffic forum like this.
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post #188 of 346 Old 08-25-2006, 06:39 PM
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I didn't mean jpeg compression. All the screenshots are soft like the decoder isn't properly deinterlacing and you're getting only half the resolution of the frame.
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post #189 of 346 Old 08-25-2006, 10:13 PM
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Regardless of the resolution, look at those blocks!
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post #190 of 346 Old 09-08-2006, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Bikini Destinations Acapulco
Those backgound water scenes from Bikini Destinations are now blockier and much less PQ detail ever since E* went 1440x1080i at these channel. That extra "pop" in PQ HD is gone. Even my GF notice it while watching these episode using Westinghouse 37" LCD.

No more full bit rate 17 Mbps 1920x1080i HD channels at E*

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post #191 of 346 Old 09-09-2006, 01:25 AM
 
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Yes, it sucks big time.

When you showed the E* full rate is that from a previous recording done before they switched encoding?
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post #192 of 346 Old 09-10-2006, 04:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDHTPC View Post

Yes, it sucks big time.

When you showed the E* full rate is that from a previous recording done before they switched encoding?

Yes.
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post #193 of 346 Old 09-21-2006, 04:07 AM - Thread Starter
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post #194 of 346 Old 09-21-2006, 04:35 AM
 
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If you can't see it there, you'll never see it.
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post #195 of 346 Old 09-21-2006, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVFanAtic View Post

If you can't see it there, you'll never see it.

Yup Little macroblocking squares galore. Flames are D*'s enemy.
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post #196 of 346 Old 09-24-2006, 03:01 PM
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I guess I feel a little better about switching to Dish from D*, but still, the macroblocking was out of control on Fantastic Four via Dish. I can't believe I'm paying over $70 bucks a month for this crap (if my rebates ever kick in- I've been waiting three months now!).

At least I know Desperate Housewives will look perfect tonight, oh yeah, I forgot, I GET THAT FOR FRICKIN' FREE from my OTA antenna.
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post #197 of 346 Old 09-24-2006, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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The lesser of two evils.

After this month I'm cancelling my premium subs from D*.

HBO and SHOWTIME HD Lite no more.
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post #198 of 346 Old 10-21-2006, 04:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Saving Private Ryan

E* 16.2 gb AVB 13.32 Mbps

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post #199 of 346 Old 10-21-2006, 07:03 AM
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Ok I have two very stupid questions...

1. How do you know what the bit rate is of all these things? Where do you get this information?

2. How exactly do HD movies work? What I mean is , I was under the impression that HD quality needed to be FILMED in HD. I'm sure that 2001 was not filmed as such, so how can you take a lower quality film and just suddenly "change" it to be this great HD quality?

Ok that's it for now.
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post #200 of 346 Old 10-22-2006, 01:23 AM - Thread Starter
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1. I use tsreader. There are many tools out there.

2. It doesn't have to be shot in HD. Movies shot using film already has all the necessary information to be transferred to HD. Look at the recent showings from HDNETM, WORLDCINEMAHD, FILMFESTHD and MONSTERHD for example. And some of the classic release from HD DVD like The Searchers and Robin Hood.

I'm not going to go any further but use the search function to know more.
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post #201 of 346 Old 10-22-2006, 03:11 PM
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For now at higher resolutions such as 4K, film formats (especially IMAX) are the only practical medium for acquisition.
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post #202 of 346 Old 10-23-2006, 12:21 PM
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Maybe I'm nuts, but none of those screenshots look even close to what I'm seeing on my 43" Pioneer Elite plasma. [shrug]
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post #203 of 346 Old 10-23-2006, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmj713 View Post

Maybe I'm nuts, but none of those screenshots look even close to what I'm seeing on my 43" Pioneer Elite plasma. [shrug]

What is posted are idividual frames of the film. Put in motion its sometimes hard to see. But usually its very obvious.
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post #204 of 346 Old 10-23-2006, 01:12 PM
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Those blocks I'll grant you - sometimes where there's VERY fast action, I notice them (only momentarily, though). But those jagged edges and other things? I dunno. The image on my screen looks rock-solid for the most part, with pitch-black blacks, and saturated colors - not the washed out, pixelated crap these shots look like.
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post #205 of 346 Old 10-24-2006, 12:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmj713 View Post

Those blocks I'll grant you - sometimes where there's VERY fast action, I notice them (only momentarily, though). But those jagged edges and other things? I dunno. The image on my screen looks rock-solid for the most part, with pitch-black blacks, and saturated colors - not the washed out, pixelated crap these shots look like.


Your comments show exactly why D* and E* think they can they can get away with MPEG4 - anyone who thinks its not lossless (as mpeg2 is compressed as well - but not to the extent of mpeg4) is nuts.


Quote:
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What is posted are idividual frames of the film. Put in motion its sometimes hard to see. But usually its very obvious.


He is exactly right. That is the whole concept that mpeg4 counts on....it happens so fast you cannot make it out.
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post #206 of 346 Old 10-24-2006, 05:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmj713 View Post

Those blocks I'll grant you - sometimes where there's VERY fast action, I notice them (only momentarily, though). But those jagged edges and other things? I dunno. The image on my screen looks rock-solid for the most part, with pitch-black blacks, and saturated colors - not the washed out, pixelated crap these shots look like.

Screenshots are uncompromising isn't it? Unmolested from your tv set's video control, scaling and processing.

If you notice a few of us here have both providers and we can A/B them and see the difference in motion or PQ. Sometimes its subtle or not noticeable but most of the time the difference is glaringly obvious. Distracting and plain unwatchable. Just check another AVSer thread about D* The Island broadcast.

Once you understand HD-Lite there is no turning back. You are going to see what we are seeing.

You have been warned
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post #207 of 346 Old 10-24-2006, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

Screenshots are uncompromising isn't it? Unmolested from your tv set's video control, scaling and processing.

But that's the problem here. You're showing these screenshots as if THEY're representative of the HDTV quality one would expect to see on their set - which isn't true, even by your own admission. So I don't see what purpose this serves.

After this thread I was watching a hockey game last night in HD, trying very hard to look for this stuff. I could not notice anything. I pressed my nose against the screen, and then yes, I could see it was a little jaggy, but still not even close to the amount shown in these screenshots.
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post #208 of 346 Old 10-24-2006, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmj713 View Post

But that's the problem here. You're showing these screenshots as if THEY're representative of the HDTV quality one would expect to see on their set - which isn't true, even by your own admission. So I don't see what purpose this serves.

After this thread I was watching a hockey game last night in HD, trying very hard to look for this stuff. I could not notice anything. I pressed my nose against the screen, and then yes, I could see it was a little jaggy, but still not even close to the amount shown in these screenshots.

Watch "The Island" this Friday night on HBO-HD. All will be revealed! You have to wait till the action scenes start, about 35 minutes into the film.
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post #209 of 346 Old 10-24-2006, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by audiomagnate View Post

Watch "The Island" this Friday night on HBO-HD. All will be revealed! You have to wait till the action scenes start, about 35 minutes into the film.


Absolutely. After watching The Island Sunday on HBO-HD I was ready to cancel my service with DIRECTV because it looked so bad. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like I would get a huge improvement by switching to Dish Network. On the other hand, there is at least SOME improvement and if they give me a killer deal I might just defect from Direct to Dish.
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post #210 of 346 Old 10-24-2006, 12:13 PM
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Sorry, The Island is not my type of film. I did catch part of it while flipping channels, and it looked fine to me. Rock-solid.
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