Wheel Of Fortune and Jeopardy in HD - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 409 Old 10-29-2006, 05:47 PM
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Can't turn poo into ice cream no matter how you hard you try...

That's definitely true. We just try to keep the poo from stinking up the place!

btw- Ask Mark S. if that's what roses smell like (poo). He'd think it funny.

I tend to be critical and upfront. That's just me. :)
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post #272 of 409 Old 10-30-2006, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by TVOD View Post

I'm no where near bdfox18doe's station so i can't speak for how it actually looks, but I suspect it looks quite good.

They look VERY good, much better than we expected.They have a nice friendly operator interface as well. IF Sony can fix the issues with the decks, specifically a lack of closed captions, they'll have a winner on their hands. (even tho they do 1440x1080i only). The center-cut downconversion is perfectly done. You do have to add a DNF controller to get GPI control tho..

We also have to transcode to 720p as well. So far haven't had any viewer complaints on PQ.. For first generation, no repeat value news, XDCamHD is ideal,
especially at 35mb/s. And, the latest release of Final Cut-Pro will take via firewire the 35 mb/s files generated by XDCamHD.

For the cost of these decks, I think you will see them used a LOT as a drop in VTR replacement that is affordable,allows simultaneous HD & SD4x3 playout, and the discs are only $27 each..IF they can fix the CC issue.. Here, I have +70 VTR's that will have to be replaced, either with VTR's or servers.. Since we originate both FOX and ABC affilate's (with News) out of here, it's not a simple project. Then there are the other 4 stations we have...

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post #273 of 409 Old 10-30-2006, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by bdfox18doe View Post

They look VERY good, much better than we expected.They have a nice friendly operator interface as well. IF Sony can fix the issues with the decks, specifically a lack of closed captions, they'll have a winner on their hands. (even tho they do 1440x1080i only). The center-cut downconversion is perfectly done. You do have to add a DNF controller to get GPI control tho..

We also have to transcode to 720p as well. So far haven't had any viewer complaints on PQ.. For first generation, no repeat value news, XDCamHD is ideal,
especially at 35mb/s. And, the latest release of Final Cut-Pro will take via firewire the 35 mb/s files generated by XDCamHD.

For the cost of these decks, I think you will see them used a LOT as a drop in VTR replacement that is affordable,allows simultaneous HD & SD4x3 playout, and the discs are only $27 each..IF they can fix the CC issue.. Here, I have +70 VTR's that will have to be replaced, either with VTR's or servers.. Since we originate both FOX and ABC affilate's (with News) out of here, it's not a simple project. Then there are the other 4 stations we have...

Good to hear you are having good experience with them.

A lot of us over here were a bit disappointed that the BBC decided not to include Sony in their "Starwinder tapeless" trials. They have mainly been using P2 from Panasonic (which Sport used at the Turin Winter Olympics) and Thomson's Infinity devices - both mainly in SD.

The low media cost of the XDCam SD and HD ranges seem to be a major benefit - and Sony's user interfaces are pretty good (if you can drive a BVW 75 you can quickly get used to most of their other VTRs and VDRs...)
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post #274 of 409 Old 11-08-2006, 08:29 PM
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Starting tonight, Jeopardy's "Celebrity Tournament" is running for two weeks. It's set in Radio City Music Hall. If your station has it in HD, check it out even if you don't normally watch it. The set and the interior shots of the hall are fantastic. I'm going to keep one of these on my DVR for demonstration material.
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post #275 of 409 Old 11-09-2006, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jtbell View Post

Starting tonight, Jeopardy's "Celebrity Tournament" is running for two weeks. It's set in Radio City Music Hall. If your station has it in HD, check it out even if you don't normally watch it. The set and the interior shots of the hall are fantastic. I'm going to keep one of these on my DVR for demonstration material.

Could someone please post some caps from the tournament? We're waiting around for a while until KATC gets the delay equipment.

Thanks!
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post #276 of 409 Old 11-20-2006, 04:34 PM
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Now in HD on WMAR in Baltimore.

YOU ARE READING AVS FORUM

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post #277 of 409 Old 11-20-2006, 05:03 PM
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Tampa as well!!

Do you have Gannet for the O&O?
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post #278 of 409 Old 11-20-2006, 09:23 PM
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No, WMAR is owned by scripps or hearst. The Gannett station in DC doesn't carry WOF or Jeopardy.

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post #279 of 409 Old 12-01-2006, 06:25 PM
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Was wondering if anyone here knows when KGO in SF will broadcast
these in HD. I was visiting someone with Direct TV in Sacramento over the weekend and was very impressed with the pic. Which brings another question that should probably be in another forum but here goes. I have Comcast for my HD and am happy with it. When I was watching their HD that they get with Direct TV I was suprised how good the picture was.(We both have similar Panny Plasmas). I never had Direct TV but have read many posts about HD Lite. SO is the HD Lite thing a thing of the past?
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post #280 of 409 Old 12-01-2006, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by twnpks05 View Post

I was visiting someone with Direct TV in Sacramento over the weekend and was very impressed with the pic. [...] When I was watching their HD that they get with Direct TV I was suprised how good the picture was.. I never had Direct TV but have read many posts about HD Lite. SO is the HD Lite thing a thing of the past?

"HD Lite" lives on, but if you were watching Jeopardy or Wheel of Fortune via KXTV on DirecTV, that is different beast, because the local HD channels are take off-the-air (in most cases) and recompressed from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4. While this can affect the picture quality, it does not (in my experience) result in picture degradation as severe as "HD Lite."

However, some might say you WERE watching an "HD Lite" picture, as those shows originate in 1080i (1920x1080), but since KXTV is a 720p station, they have to cross-convert it to 1280x720. As you've seen though, that doesn't necessarily mean the picture will be bad. This actually looks pretty darned good to me.
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post #281 of 409 Old 12-02-2006, 06:57 AM
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Not yet in HD here in Kirksville, MO (very small market), but I did notice last night that Wheel was letterbox (no pun intended). I thought that was interesting. It was one of those broadcasts that floats in the middle of the screen since the digital SD signal has black pillars and the show was letterbox. I'll probably need to ask the station, but does this mean that they were probably recording the HD feed? Does this indicate any progress or did Wheel just start letterboxing the SD feed?
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post #282 of 409 Old 12-02-2006, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videojanitor View Post

"However, some might say you WERE watching an "HD Lite" picture, as those shows originate in 1080i (1920x1080), but since KXTV is a 720p station, they have to cross-convert it to 1280x720. As you've seen though, that doesn't necessarily mean the picture will be bad. This actually looks pretty darned good to me.

yea..In our case, record & play via XDCamHD @ 1440x1080i.. then transcoded to 1280x720p.. and still looks quite good.

Bob

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post #283 of 409 Old 12-09-2006, 08:33 PM
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I really thought that survivor would be the first reality show to go HD, since there was a new season which started recently, but sadly thats not the case. I would like to see Deal, No Deal in HD, but hopefully in a year we will see a ton more HD station launch and have a lot of shows in HD.

Wow, seems like a waste to do Game Shows first in HD. I was really hoping for Survivor and Amazing Race though, I wonder if it's just too expensive with all the traveling equipment.
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post #284 of 409 Old 12-10-2006, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bmoney017 View Post

I really thought that survivor would be the first reality show to go HD, since there was a new season which started recently, but sadly thats not the case. I would like to see Deal, No Deal in HD, but hopefully in a year we will see a ton more HD station launch and have a lot of shows in HD.

Sorry to reply to an old post, but you do realize that there has been reality in HD for quite a while now, right? (Just not on CBS)

I believe FOX's first reality HD was "The Rebel Billionaire" (the Richard Branson reality show) back in 02 or 03, and then of course, they've done American Idol in HD for several years now.
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post #285 of 409 Old 12-10-2006, 02:08 PM
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And HD on Dancing With The Stars - good for appreciating those skimpy outfits No word on the Grease reality show on NBC next month, although it is being produced by the BBC who also did DWTS. I read it's being done in a HD capable studio, but I guess by now that's not uncommon.


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post #286 of 409 Old 12-11-2006, 03:45 AM
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Wow, seems like a waste to do Game Shows first in HD. I was really hoping for Survivor and Amazing Race though, I wonder if it's just too expensive with all the traveling equipment.

The economics for producing a studio-based multi-camera near as-live game show in HD and a location-based based multiple single-camera based heavily post-produced reality show in HD are very different.

I suspect that most studios that are upgrading from 4:3 SD or 4:3/16:9 switchable SD (composite analogue or component digital) to new gear are upgrading to 16:9 HD (HD component digital) - and for an as-live production for game shows the increase in costs for production are not as huge as they once were, especially if the show is as-live mainly and doesn't require much editing.

Upgrading the production infrastructure for a location based reality show will be much more difficult - and more expensive still - though the costs are coming down.

The reason game shows have gone HD first is that the economic tipping point for studios going to HD was reached before the tipping point for location single-camera shows.
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post #287 of 409 Old 12-11-2006, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by TVOD View Post

And HD on Dancing With The Stars - good for appreciating those skimpy outfits No word on the Grease reality show on NBC next month, although it is being produced by the BBC who also did DWTS. I read it's being done in a HD capable studio, but I guess by now that's not uncommon.

Be interesting to see the NBC-commissioned "You're The One That We Want" BBC-produced show (selecting a male and female lead for Grease) and how it compares to the BBC original "How Do You Solve A Problem Like Maria?" (selecting a female lead for The Sound of Music)

In the UK Maria came from the same studio as Strictly Come Dancing - but Maria was produced prior to the studio being HD-capable for live transmissions.

The production values of the shows were similar and they ran in the same time slot (Saturday early evening for the main show and later in the evening for the results show) and the use of HD really benefits Strictly - even for SD viewers the picture quality is better. (Though costumes are probably more important for Strictly than they were for Maria)

It will be interesting to see if it is in HD. If a similar show were to be produced by the BBC in the UK now, there would be a fair chance it would be produced in HD - and as the show has been commissioned relatively recently, it may have been pitched with an HD budget, rather than pitched and commissioned with an SD budget.
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post #288 of 409 Old 12-11-2006, 08:00 AM
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The reason game shows have gone HD first is that the economic tipping point for studios going to HD was reached before the tipping point for location single-camera shows.

The other reason these particular shows went HD is that they are owned by Sony, shot at Sony Pictures with Sony equipment and creates more HD programming to sell Sony HD sets. It's reminiscent of the early days of color in the US with RCA and NBC.

BTW, I finally viewed an episode of the X-Factor. The set is impressive, especially the marques. It was the show from one week ago, and I was surprised at all the pyrotechnics in the studio. The Brit camera work is much more aggressive and manic than what is typical in the states, even compared to UK productions in the US. On a larger display it can create a bit of vertigo. I noted that was also true on SCD, and I read on a forum how some SCD fans were unhappy about that and encouraged viewers to write the BBC to calm the camera moves a bit. From the credits I saw that the X-factor is done at Fountain Studios, and from their website that they are using Sony cameras. Seems Sony cameras are more popular there than I suspected. I wonder what their plans are for HD.


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post #289 of 409 Old 12-12-2006, 01:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TVOD View Post

The other reason these particular shows went HD is that they are owned by Sony, shot at Sony Pictures with Sony equipment and creates more HD programming to sell Sony HD sets.

You beat me to it....though I don't know that the Sony HD set sell through is the reason - I believe its pushing the Sony HD Pro Line to the Broadcasters which was more likely the reason.
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post #290 of 409 Old 12-12-2006, 06:59 AM
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The other reason these particular shows went HD is that they are owned by Sony, shot at Sony Pictures with Sony equipment and creates more HD programming to sell Sony HD sets. It's reminiscent of the early days of color in the US with RCA and NBC.

Yep - similar to the situation over here. Sky have equipped with HDC-1500 and HD Cam SR Sony gear at their centre, and have a co-marketing deal with Sony for their domestic gear. (So Sony and Sky advertise as partners for receivers and displays)

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BTW, I finally viewed an episode of the X-Factor. The set is impressive, especially the marques. It was the show from one week ago, and I was surprised at all the pyrotechnics in the studio.

Yep - the X Factor is quite an impressive set. Lots of LED screens and some quite flashy effects lighting. Pyros normally appear towards the end of the run - but are pretty popular on LE shows over here in general - though they are used even more in Sweden I think. (LE shows are HUGE there - especially their Melodifestivalen series - which make The X Factor look tiny...)

The problem with The X Factor, for me, is that the lighting/racking on people is VERY flat and dull. People close-ups look quite lifeless - it is all about the wide shot. In comparison, the "look" of Strictly Come Dancing is much glossier and sparklier, with much nicer looking flesh tones and faces.

Also - as a satellite viewer I really notice that ITV1 use SD-lite (544x576) rather than SD (720x576) that the BBC use - especially noticable in 16:9 - which makes it all look a bit softer.

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The Brit camera work is much more aggressive and manic than what is typical in the states, even compared to UK productions in the US. On a larger display it can create a bit of vertigo. I noted that was also true on SCD, and I read on a forum how some SCD fans were unhappy about that and encouraged viewers to write the BBC to calm the camera moves a bit.

Yep - the current series of Strictly Come Dancing now has a new director who has slowed things down a bit. The original director for Strictly, Alex Rudzinsky, did the ABC Dancing With The Stars instead, and couldn't do both as they overlap I believe. (Though Len and Bruno did both shows - they must have loads of airmiles!)

I think that UK (and Scandinavian as well) LE coverage is a bit more fast-cut and whizzy-camera than US stuff - I think we've kind of got used to it.

The last few years of the Swedish Melodifestivalen have an incredibly high cut-rate - and lots of moving cameras (3 jibs, a radio steadicam, 3 or 4 rail cams as well as the usual mid-stadium rostrum cameras and side of stage peds.) The result is amazing - with no static shots at all (either the cameras are moving or altering the shot size) When done well it can look amazing - when done badly it makes you feel ill... The Swedes do it very well.

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From the credits I saw that the X-factor is done at Fountain Studios, and from their website that they are using Sony cameras. Seems Sony cameras are more popular there than I suspected. I wonder what their plans are for HD.

Fountain is an interesting studio operation. They have TWO studios with a large connecting door between them that can be electrically opened (the engine is an electric motor otherwise used to rotate battleship gun turrets) to allow the two studios to be used as a single space. When working together it is the largest single purpose built TV production space.

The BBC's TC1 (which is the normal home to Strictly Come Dancing, How Do You Solve a Problem, Strictly Dance Fever etc.) is usually described as Europe's largest "single purpose built TV studio" - because it is a permanent single space.

Because it is used so heavily it is usual for the Strictly set to go in on Thursday or Friday, TX on Saturday, and then be got out in time for a new show to go in for Monday. Standing sets aren't the norm at TV Centre. Not sure what happens at Fountain with The X Factor.

At the moment BBC TV Centre TC1 and The Hospital in Covent Garden are the only HD capable general production studios in the UK. Sky have some as well - but I don't think they are available on the open market.
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post #291 of 409 Old 12-12-2006, 12:59 PM
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Fountain is an interesting studio operation. They have TWO studios with a large connecting door between them that can be electrically opened (the engine is an electric motor otherwise used to rotate battleship gun turrets) to allow the two studios to be used as a single space. When working together it is the largest single purpose built TV production space.

Thanks for that info. When I looked a little deeper I saw the specs for Studio A & B combined, which is 133' 2 x 91' 4. Each studio is 91'2 x 60'6. I wonder if the sound isolation is compromised having the two studios so close when they are used independently. From what I've heard Jeopardy and Wheel share opposite ends of the studio with the audience in between, but I don't think they partition the studio and do the shows simultaneously.

I'd continue this in an Idol thread, but it's a bit early so I hope I can be a bit off topic for a moment. I've only seen the one week of The X-Factor, but I was surprised as to the formality of the dress. Simon Cowell in a suit is quite a contrast to the T shirt he usually wears on American Idol. I also liked the presenter. I did notice the lighting seemed flat, but I was assuming it was partly due to the file I was watching. I have yet to see a good file of SCD, but I'll keep looking. The HD stills gave a good impression. I'll have to look for Melodifestivalen too.


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post #292 of 409 Old 12-12-2006, 02:12 PM
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Thanks for that info. When I looked a little deeper I saw the specs for Studio A & B combined, which is 133' 2 x 91' 4. Each studio is 91'2 x 60'6. I wonder if the sound isolation is compromised having the two studios so close when they are used independently. From what I've heard Jeopardy and Wheel share opposite ends of the studio with the audience in between, but I don't think they partition the studio and do the shows simultaneously.

From what I've heard the door is VERY well engineered and provides excellent sound isolation. It is a very well regarded facility.

If you are interested in UK TV Studio History (i.e. what we'd call a "studio anorak" in the UK - and don't worry - I'm one) then Martin Kempton, a well regarded LD in the UK has created a fantastic site.

It is at http://www.tvstudiohistory.co.uk/ and his site is at http://www.martinkempton.com

Both well worth a look - though you can spend hours reading through the history site. It is one of the best and most comprehensive sites covering the production studios at TV Centre.

Also interesting to see the mix of converted film studios and theatres early in the history of TV, then a purpose built era, and now shows moving back to sound stages at Pinewood and Shepperton. (Either with production facilities installed or OB trucks parked nearby. A truck I helped take a training course in a few weeks ago had just finished taping a sitcom as an OB at a film stage - at Pinewood I think though it might have been Shepperton)

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I'd continue this in an Idol thread, but it's a bit early so I hope I can be a bit off topic for a moment. I've only seen the one week of The X-Factor, but I was surprised as to the formality of the dress. Simon Cowell in a suit is quite a contrast to the T shirt he usually wears on American Idol. I also liked the presenter. I did notice the lighting seemed flat, but I was assuming it was partly due to the file I was watching. I have yet to see a good file of SCD, but I'll keep looking. The HD stills gave a good impression. I'll have to look for Melodifestivalen too.

Interestingly - the Pop Stars / Pop Idol format originated at ITV in the UK - but they have now let the licence to this format lapse in the UK I believe - and now favour The X Factor (which is a Simon Cowell production...) The show is a bit more formal than Pop Stars/Pop Idol - Cowell was always in a t-shirt on Pop Idol.

Kate Thornton, who presents it, is OK I think - but Ant N Dec who presented Pop Idol/Pop Stars and now present I'm A Celebrity (which is VERY popular in the UK) are the masters of the format. They are a double act who have worked together since acting in a BBC kids drama series in the early 90s, then had a pop career (shortlived) together, and then presented a saturday morning kids show (a big gig in the UK at the time) before graduating to saturday evening LE with Pop Idol. They are incredibly popular - very bright, very witty but very warm and very accessible. They are ITV's kings of Saturday night, and have their own very popular show "Saturday Night Takeaway" - which is itself a bit of an homage to an earlier BBC Saturday night show "Noel's House Party". (Noel Edmonds now presents the Channel Four show "Deal or No Deal"!)

Kate is pretty and competent - though she has a habit of shouting IMHO - and I'm not quite sure she always quite hits the right note.

I think Strictly is a much "classier" show - with a live band and live singers, very good looking lighting and camera colour balancing, and a very good "family" feel with contestants who take the show seriously and commit to it wholeheartedly, but also have careers that they can continue with irrespective of the judges comments. Sometimes the stress and pressure, and raw emotions of people knocked out of The X Factor can be a bit uncomfortable and hard to watch.

Strictly, in contrast, is fluffy, camp and fun, and looks fantastic. The show is punchier, and sounds much better. (It is apparently being balanced in 5.1 in a separate sound gallery?) The costumes and sheer riot of colour in the studio can just be lovely to watch.

ITV are famous for their "square" audience sound - where it just goes so loud and so into the limiters it sounds very flat and doesn't have much of a dynamic.

That said The X Factor is very popular, and the set and camera direction can be fantastic.
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post #293 of 409 Old 12-14-2006, 05:35 PM
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Jeopardy is HD tonight here in Denver. They must have just started either tonight or in the last few nights because it wasn't HD on Monday. Pretty surprized to see this... KMGH, the station that airs Jeopardy & Wheel, isn't exactly thought of as an HD Leader in this market. Nonetheless, seeing is believing. No reason to think Wheel Of Fortune won't be HD as well.
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post #294 of 409 Old 12-14-2006, 06:29 PM
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Hmm... Check that. Wheel Of Fortune not in HD...
Pretty odd, Jeopardy was in perfect HD, but Wheel is in standard Fuzz-O-Vision. Oh well, KMGH is probably still working out the kinks of recording the HD feeds of these shows.
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post #295 of 409 Old 12-27-2006, 03:34 PM
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WBBH Fort Myers should be able to pass through both shows in HD by the Spring of 2007 according to the Naples Daily News.

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2006/...tage_converte/

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post #296 of 409 Old 12-28-2006, 04:08 PM
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ha.. just came here to check why WoF wasn't in HD tonight on WTSP in Tampa... then an HD frame of Alex Trebek popped up for 20 seconds during a commercial break...
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post #297 of 409 Old 01-23-2007, 08:10 AM
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As of last night (01-22-07), KGO (ABC 7) is now showing these in HD!
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post #298 of 409 Old 01-23-2007, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jabbathespud View Post

As of last night (01-22-07), KGO (ABC 7) is now showing these in HD!

Like all the ABC stations that air these two shows in HD, cross-conversion is required from the show's native 1080i to 720P. KABC here in LA has been doing that and the results are very good. How does it look and sound on KGO?
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post #299 of 409 Old 01-23-2007, 09:00 AM
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Still no HD WOF or Jeopardy here in Chattanooga.
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post #300 of 409 Old 01-23-2007, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Hickey View Post

Still no HD WOF or Jeopardy here in Chattanooga.

Same situation in Boston.

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