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post #61 of 5617 Old 09-27-2006, 01:12 PM
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I'd sure like to see Jerry Springer go, but his fanbase of hardcore reality fans has made that impossible so far. Last night he all but asked for his fans to not vote him in for another week, so we can only hope they'll honor his desire.

I wonder if the professional dancers are accustomed to creating entertainment-based choreography to such restrictive rules?

Willa would get more votes if she would just stop talking about how hard she's working and how unknown she is. She looks great, but I'm afraid she might not last long.

Tim
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post #62 of 5617 Old 09-27-2006, 02:02 PM
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Well the judges didn't say anything embarrassing to Monique while her mom was there, instead Monique mooned her mom when her costume bottom fell down!

Between Monique losing her costume (good thing it had that strap connecting to the top in front or she would have totally lost it) and the judges suddenly getting picky about dancing the correct style and the hypocrisy over lifts, last night was sure a strange night.

I think it's a really twisted set of rules where Monique gets praised for doing a full-speed backwards flying jump off the stage (which I guess doesn't qualify as a lift since he caught her below his waist) but Emmitt gets castigated for a tiny little lift where Cheryl was only one foot off the floor. I guess stage diving into the mosh pit is legal, but jumping off the stage while your partner holds your hands (like Edyta did and got downgraded for) is illegal.
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post #63 of 5617 Old 09-27-2006, 02:40 PM
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I wish they would get rid of Jerry. He is painful to watch. Good thing his partner is nice looking.

My favorites are Willa and Sara. Entertaining combined with good eye candy.

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post #64 of 5617 Old 09-27-2006, 03:47 PM
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Willa is DEFINITELY attractive to watch, to say the least. Sara I could do without (but to each his own).

While I may have issues with what Jerry does OFF this show, I think he's been nothing but a gentlemen on it and very funny to boot. It seems that he's genuinely sorry for having to put his professional partner through this. And, at least from my perspective, he actually IS trying to learn the dances and do them properly. It seems that he actually is trying to follow the rules while Mario (either on his own or instructed to by the producers) is purposely ignoring them and getting rewarded for it (until last night).

=NLK=
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post #65 of 5617 Old 09-27-2006, 11:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, you Jerry Springer haters, I hate to disappoint you, but Jerry will be back next week to try his luck with the waltz (he wants to dance the waltz with his daughter at her upcoming wedding). He and Harry were in the bottom two, and it was Harry who got voted off (audience disappointed, wife Lisa was sad, partner Ashley was too teary-eyed to speak).

For those of you who wanted Willa to go away, sorry, but she was the 2nd person announced as being safe and advancing to the next week.

Jerry and Emmitt were the in the bottom 2 with the judges vote tally, but Emmitt escaped the bottom 2 after the audience vote was added in. Harry was actually tied for 4th after the judges votes, but (my guess) must have been dead last in the audience vote.
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post #66 of 5617 Old 09-27-2006, 11:29 PM - Thread Starter
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For those of you who want the numerics...If you assign the scores: 1st place=9 pts, 2nd place = 8 pts, etc. down to 9th place = 1 pt.

Harry and 3 others were tied for 4th place. So that gives Harry et al (6+5+4+3)/4 = 4.5 points for each. Jerry was alone in 8th (2 pts), Emmitt alone in 9th (1 pt).

Since Harry was last, he most likely got the lowest audience vote (again, 9pts for 1st, 8 pts for 2nd, down to 1 pt for 9th - and also assuming no ties in the audience vote). So Harry's total was (4.5+1) = 5.5 points for his overall score.

Since Jerry was in the bottom two but above Harry, Jerry had to have exactly 4 points (6th place) in the audience vote. Total (2+4) = 6 points for his overall score.

Emmitt was in last place after the judges, but escaped the bottom two, so he had to have more than Jerry's 6 points, so Emmitt had to have at least 6 points (4th place or better) in the audience vote. Total (1+at least 6) = at least 7 points for his overall score.

Maximum score - finishing first in both judges and audience vote is 18 points. Since there was a tie for 1st, max judges points was 8.5 - so the total maximum combined score this week was (8.5+9) = 17.5 points.

I may be over simplifying things, but sometimes the math can be confusing.
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post #67 of 5617 Old 09-28-2006, 01:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tluxon View Post

I'd sure like to see Jerry Springer go, but his fanbase of hardcore reality fans has made that impossible so far. Last night he all but asked for his fans to not vote him in for another week, so we can only hope they'll honor his desire.

I wonder if the professional dancers are accustomed to creating entertainment-based choreography to such restrictive rules?

Willa would get more votes if she would just stop talking about how hard she's working and how unknown she is. She looks great, but I'm afraid she might not last long.

Tim

Despite what others might think, that Jerry is still in shows it is still a popularity contest.

Willa had interviews locally prior to the first show and admited she felt she would not last long because she had the least name recognition of just about anyone on the show.

Say what you want, but the girl did her homework and knew how the game was played before she started - and better yet - she was right.

Like her or not (and the female judge said she had the most natural ability of any one there) by making the point over and over, it's finally cutting through to J6P and as she wasn't in the bottom 2 this week, they audience is finally beginning to vote on talent - not Q Scores.
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post #68 of 5617 Old 09-28-2006, 02:36 PM
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The odd part of Willa's situation this week was that, IMHO, it was her worst performance, but the first time she wasn't in the bottom two.

There were a few times when it looked like she wasn't sure of the steps and was hesitating to see what Max was doing. Or maybe she was over-compensating for Carrie's criticism last week that she was getting ahead of the music.


AFA Harry is concerned. Although he was a sentimental favorite of mine, I don't feel too bad. Realistically, Jerry should have already been gone and it should have been between Harry, Shanna or Sara who are all a notch or two below the others. IMO, Sara has pulled a little ahead of Harry, so Harry should have gone either this week or next week. So even in the most optimistic case he would have only had one more week.
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post #69 of 5617 Old 09-28-2006, 03:38 PM
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I'm all for honoring the rules, but the judges should keep in mind that "their show" isn't life and death, but remains on the air because it is entertaining. How does Len get off dropping Mario from a 10 to a 6 just because he broke a hold during the tango? What would be the harm in having mandatory deductions so his scores aren't tainted by a judge's emotion at the time?

Funny, but I don't remember these rule issues being such a big deal in prior seasons/episodes - is it just a new problem? Seeing the surprised looks on some of the professional dancers, it seems that there has been a lack of clarity among the partners as to how literally the rules were to be interpreted and what fair penalty would be applied. I for one would've liked it if this sudden crackdown on rule breakers wasn't taking such a subjective turn. It almost makes me want to pick up the phone and vote for those who are unduly (IMO) penalized - too bad I can't because I'm watching on a 1 or 2 hour delay (DVR).

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post #70 of 5617 Old 09-28-2006, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tluxon View Post

I'm all for honoring the rules, but the judges should keep in mind that "their show" isn't life and death, but remains on the air because it is entertaining. How does Len get off dropping Mario from a 10 to a 6 just because he broke a hold during the tango? What would be the harm in having mandatory deductions so his scores aren't tainted by a judge's emotion at the time?

Funny, but I don't remember these rule issues being such a big deal in prior seasons/episodes - is it just a new problem? Seeing the surprised looks on some of the professional dancers, it seems that there has been a lack of clarity among the partners as to how literally the rules were to be interpreted and what fair penalty would be applied. I for one would've liked it if this sudden crackdown on rule breakers wasn't taking such a subjective turn. It almost makes me want to pick up the phone and vote for those who are unduly (IMO) penalized - too bad I can't because I'm watching on a 1 or 2 hour delay (DVR).

Tim

Absolutely correct. Early in the first season Len paid passing respect to the rules of each dance, then dropped the matter. I think what happened is that when Mario came out and basically stayed in hold for 10% of the dance Len couldn't take it anymore and said something. Some way or some how the producers must have gauged the reaction and sensed that this stirred the audience and garnered even more call-ins, watercooler talk, etc., then told the judges to play that card the following week. Unfortunately, they forgot to tell the pros and celebs that the judges had suddenly decided to stick to the rules. Totally unfair.

BTW, the reason a break in hold SHOULD be heavily penalized is because you don't have to be a pro to comply with the rule. It's a simple thing to do. If you break the hold then it's clear that you did so intentionally, which is not fair to anyone who IS busting their butt to dance in hold and play by the rules. Keeping the hold and dancing is not easy.

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post #71 of 5617 Old 09-28-2006, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tluxon View Post

I'm all for honoring the rules, but the judges should keep in mind that "their show" isn't life and death, but remains on the air because it is entertaining. How does Len get off dropping Mario from a 10 to a 6 just because he broke a hold during the tango? What would be the harm in having mandatory deductions so his scores aren't tainted by a judge's emotion at the time?

Funny, but I don't remember these rule issues being such a big deal in prior seasons/episodes - is it just a new problem? Seeing the surprised looks on some of the professional dancers, it seems that there has been a lack of clarity among the partners as to how literally the rules were to be interpreted and what fair penalty would be applied. I for one would've liked it if this sudden crackdown on rule breakers wasn't taking such a subjective turn. It almost makes me want to pick up the phone and vote for those who are unduly (IMO) penalized - too bad I can't because I'm watching on a 1 or 2 hour delay (DVR).

Tim


How many weeks are you into the competition in the US? In the UK the judges normally get harsher - particularly Len - on the technical aspects as the series continues, accepting that in the early days many of the competitors are new to dancing, and will struggle to stay "within the rules".

However as the series continues, they expect a higher technical standard, and usually penalise choreography that intentionally "breaks the rules", but will often be less harsh on choreography that doesn't but where a mistake causes the rules to be broken.
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post #72 of 5617 Old 09-28-2006, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone think that they may have to resort to doing disqualifications of couples for breaking the rules? Could make things even more interesting.

They might go to a soccer-style system: you get one warning (same as yellow card); the next time it happens, you get a 2nd yellow, which is the same as a red card - you're disqualified and out of the competition!

I can see Len now: "Mario, you did a lift. We told you, the rules specify no lifts in any of the dances! You're given a warning. (raises a yellow card) The next time this happens, you and your partner are out!"
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post #73 of 5617 Old 09-28-2006, 07:20 PM
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How many weeks are you into the competition in the US? In the UK the judges normally get harsher - particularly Len - on the technical aspects as the series continues, accepting that in the early days many of the competitors are new to dancing, and will struggle to stay "within the rules".

However as the series continues, they expect a higher technical standard, and usually penalise choreography that intentionally "breaks the rules", but will often be less harsh on choreography that doesn't but where a mistake causes the rules to be broken.

Completed week 3 of 10. Here's the rundown.
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post #74 of 5617 Old 09-28-2006, 11:59 PM
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Does anyone think that they may have to resort to doing disqualifications of couples for breaking the rules? Could make things even more interesting.

They might go to a soccer-style system: you get one warning (same as yellow card); the next time it happens, you get a 2nd yellow, which is the same as a red card - you're disqualified and out of the competition!

I can see Len now: "Mario, you did a lift. We told you, the rules specify no lifts in any of the dances! You're given a warning. (raises a yellow card) The next time this happens, you and your partner are out!"

Well this isn't exactly like getting caught using performance enhancing drugs - it's entertainment disguised as a dance competition. If they want to take the rules that seriously, then they shouldn't let the nationwide audience votes decide the outcome?

Wouldn't kicking someone out of the competition for breaking a hold and doing a lift be akin to taking away a driver's license for a parking violation and a speeding ticket? Seems an overly harsh penalty to me.

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post #75 of 5617 Old 09-29-2006, 12:14 AM
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It's a veil of legitimacy. It also makes for controversy which gets free publicity from the entertainment "news" shows.
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post #76 of 5617 Old 09-29-2006, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by humdinger70 View Post

Does anyone think that they may have to resort to doing disqualifications of couples for breaking the rules? Could make things even more interesting.

They might go to a soccer-style system: you get one warning (same as yellow card); the next time it happens, you get a 2nd yellow, which is the same as a red card - you're disqualified and out of the competition!

I can see Len now: "Mario, you did a lift. We told you, the rules specify no lifts in any of the dances! You're given a warning. (raises a yellow card) The next time this happens, you and your partner are out!"

Don't see that happening - whilst the judges have the ability to award low scores, the public can chose to ignore the technical side of the dances if they wish - and save a couple who have been harshly marked by the judges.

If the judges could disqualify a team, that would make them more important than the audience - which should never really happen in reality tv?
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post #77 of 5617 Old 09-29-2006, 03:01 PM
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In my opinion the rules exist to prevent 9 weeks of freestyle dancing. Something that would not benefit ABC or me the viewer. A dancer should be judged on their ability to express themselves within the confines of the dance step specified. I think they came down on the dancers because several of the dances were basically free style dancing and were in no way the dance specified.

I personally think the severity of the punishment is justified so that no one will consider doing it again.

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post #78 of 5617 Old 10-02-2006, 11:39 AM
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Poor Harry, the only reason people voted against him is because they hate his wife. In my opinion, the guy must be a saint to put up with that whiny beehatch. I'd like to see Willa go next, I'm sick of her talking about how hard she works and how she works out with Ultimate Fighter Chuck Liddell, then she gets pissed off and destroys a poor defenseless fern. If Joey and Mario break the rules again, i expect to see the judges give them a 5 or 6 across the board. That old codger guy is really getting pissed about it.

Gotta love the hosts comment about him not having time to finish his cigarette during the break

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post #79 of 5617 Old 10-04-2006, 06:34 PM
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Los Lonely Boys were pretty good tonight. Good PQ.
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post #80 of 5617 Old 10-04-2006, 10:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Another shocker - Vivica got booted! Studio audience (and probably judges, too) very displeased with the result. Vivica and Monique were in the bottom two. Vivica, Monique and Emmitt were tied for 4th place after the judges vote. Jerry was in 7th after the judges vote, Sara was last.

My guess is Jerry had the highest audience vote and Sara must have also finished near the top. Vivica probably finished last in the audience vote.
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post #81 of 5617 Old 10-04-2006, 11:01 PM - Thread Starter
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By the way, my use of ordinals (point scoring) may or may not be valid anymore. Someone pointed out they're using a percentage system - couples score from judges divided by total judges points awarded. That number, expressed as a percentage became the couples points after the judges scoring.

Same thing applies to the audience vote: votes for a couple divided by total votes cast, expressed as a percentage, becomes the points after the audience vote. The two are then added together to get final point total.
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post #82 of 5617 Old 10-04-2006, 11:50 PM
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I'm glad this show went HD. I just wish the Russian red head was on this year!!!!!

Fredfa-"I agree with generalpatton78 "
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post #83 of 5617 Old 10-05-2006, 12:16 AM
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I couldn't believe that Ashly had five sisters, all with names beginning with "A". That family had to have some serious dance lesson bills.

I'm not sure if Jerry was really in the top two (since they said "in no particular order"), but I wonder how long before Jerry starts to feel guilty about his fans' indiscriminate votes eliminating the best and most deserving dancers.
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post #84 of 5617 Old 10-05-2006, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tluxon View Post

I couldn't believe that Ashly had five sisters, all with names beginning with "A". That family had to have some serious dance lesson bills.

I'm not sure if Jerry was really in the top two (since they said "in no particular order"), but I wonder how long before Jerry starts to feel guilty about his fans' indiscriminate votes eliminating the best and most deserving dancers.

Had to be. The further down you are after the judges vote, the higher you need to be in the audience vote to compensate (see my earlier posting using the ordinals: 1st = 9 pts, 2nd = 8 pts, etc.).

Since both bottom two in the judges vote (Jerry and Sara) were safe - they had to have a much higher percentage of the audience vote than Vivica and Monique did.
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post #85 of 5617 Old 10-05-2006, 02:48 PM
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I'm glad this show went HD. I just wish the Russian red head was on this year!!!!!

I'll second that nomination (I'm assuming you're talking about Anya, or was it Anna? )

Although, mentioning she's Russian really doesn't narrow it down by much on this show since about half of the women and a quarter of the men have been Russian or eastern block.

I wonder how much this show has increased the business at the Pro's schools.
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post #86 of 5617 Old 10-05-2006, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I still say... Cheryl Burke Rulz!!
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post #87 of 5617 Old 10-05-2006, 03:13 PM
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I wonder how much this show has increased the business at the Pro's schools.

I know that 2 new ones have opened here in Charlotte since the show got popular last year, after many, many years of only 2 (now there are 4 total).

edit: I was wrong about the number of new dance studios in town. There are now seven (7) of them! This show had to have had an impact.

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I still say... Cheryl Burke Rulz!!

You're right! IMO, she's by far the best of all the female "pros"; anyone who has her as a partner has a built-in advantage. Last year she carried Drew to the winning spot even though Stacy was clearly the best dancer.
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post #88 of 5617 Old 10-05-2006, 04:31 PM
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You didn't have to be a good lip reader to figure out what Tony Dovolani (Sara Evans' partner) said when it was announced that they were going on.
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post #89 of 5617 Old 10-06-2006, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I didn't see that, but it had to be "Yes, we're still in it" or "Crap, we're still in it".
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post #90 of 5617 Old 10-06-2006, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm surprised I didn't ask this earlier...

1) Does anyone know the process of how they match up the pro dancer with the celebrity? Is it a draw out of the hat? Are the pro dancers are given a list of the celebrities involved and told to pick the top three they want to work with?

2) What is the "wow" factor that keeps people coming back to watching the show? Obviously, the dancing on the show (and the judging) will never be of the same level of full-time pro competitive ballroom dancing.
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