DIRECTV Sued Over HDTV Picture Quality - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 595 Old 09-20-2006, 08:53 PM
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The ATSC resolution standards were never adopted.
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post #92 of 595 Old 09-20-2006, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonscott View Post

I got it right here. ForsaleoceanfrontpropertyinArizona.com

That was so funny I almost forgot to laugh...Keep your day job, you are not good at the funny thing... Quite good at the stupid, foot in mouth thing....

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post #93 of 595 Old 09-20-2006, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vurbano View Post

Cut back the HD in ST, PPV, MLB etc and fix the problem, thats what you do.


how's cutting the hd for sunday ticket going to help anyone? it's one day a week for 17 weeks...

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post #94 of 595 Old 09-20-2006, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DB2 View Post

If this lawsuit accomplishes nothing else I hope that it scares ALL providers into NOT downrezzing HDTV signals.

or, when coupled with the trouncing directv is taking for bandwidth issues and serious lack of hd content, this will be a huge wakeup call for them to get their act together

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post #95 of 595 Old 09-20-2006, 09:53 PM
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It will?

This suit has been going on since November of 2004!

And have either the DNS or TiVo lawsuits, in which Dish has (badly) lost round after round after round, been any wakeup call for Charlie?

I wish I shared your view that this kind of suit will any more effect than a mosquito on an elephant.


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post #96 of 595 Old 09-20-2006, 10:44 PM
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It's one thing to have uneducated phone reps make outrageous claims but to have management say things like this:

"But relating to picture quality, anybody that thinks we don't take it seriously is mistaken. Across the board, I'll put our HD signal up against any of our competitors on a consistent basis. DIRECTV from day 1 has always been about providing great picture quality."

...is downright false advertising.

When management makes public comments that are obvious lies they should have to face legal action. Would this idiot be allowed to make up financial information to drive the stock price up?

Why is he allowed to make statements like this? He knows DirecTV's HD picture quality is lower than most (if not all) of DirecTV's competitors.
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post #97 of 595 Old 09-20-2006, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipp Jones View Post

That was so funny I almost forgot to laugh...Keep your day job, you are not good at the funny thing... Quite good at the stupid, foot in mouth thing....

I think your comment on where to send your money to help this guys lawsuit was stupid foot in mouth thing. Also, That was so funny I forgot to laugh? I haven't heard that since I was in elementary school. And yes that was along time ago.
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post #98 of 595 Old 09-20-2006, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talbain View Post

or, when coupled with the trouncing directv is taking for bandwidth issues and serious lack of hd content, this will be a huge wakeup call for them to get their act together

Corporate institutions sue all the time, and in particular Directv. It is _so_ nice to see them getting abused similarly.

I suspect that Directv legal when eventually have to spell out their bit rates and resolutions in all their ads (so they can be shielded from these lawsuits in the future).

The wonderful part is, joe six pack may have no idea his high-def set is wired with composite video, but he sure will know "lower numbers mean bad". In a raw numbers game between cable and Directv, they loose.
The cable companies may be able to get tons of advertising milage out of this as they claim much higher numbers.
Of course its the actual programming that matters.

Maybe next year at Cedia we could get custom t-shirts to hand out near the Directv booth .

It is so nice to see a company that uses deceptive advertising earn the publicity it deserves. Congratulations Directv.
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post #99 of 595 Old 09-20-2006, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredfa View Post

It will?

This suit has been going on since November of 2004!

And have either the DNS or TiVo lawsuits, in which Dish has (badly) lost round after round after round, been any wakeup call for Charlie?

I wish I shared your view that this kind of suit will any more effect than a mosquito on an elephant.

The actual heart of the suit, the picture quality issues, haven't even been addressed yet. All that's happened so far is the court disallowed DirecTV's request for arbitration.

So while it was filed in Nov 04, the "fireworks" haven't even begun yet.

Personally, I think the plaintiffs will lose the suit, but they may win the war if it draws attention to what the term "HD" actually means. A Pyrrhic victory if you will.
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post #100 of 595 Old 09-21-2006, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonscott View Post

then why dont you go out and sue your electric company. A person that wants electricity but has nowhere else to go. Is that what you think the legal system is for. grab an atttorney and good luck.


Last time I checked, however, My lightbulbs come in at their fully advertised wattage of 100. I can see perfectly in the rooms in which I have chosen to purchase 100 watt light bulbs. When I purchased my light bulbs, I wasn't in the least bit concerned that my provider would not be able to allow me enough electricity to fully illuminate a 100 watt light bulb.

I assure you, that if my provider did not live up to their advertised mission statement,

http://www.mdu.com/the_vision/vision_integrity.htm

I would join a lawsuit in a hurry.
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post #101 of 595 Old 09-21-2006, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike greer View Post

...When management makes public comments that are obvious lies they should have to face legal action. Would this idiot be allowed to make up financial information to drive the stock price up? Why is he allowed to make statements like this?....

Can you say "Enron"?
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post #102 of 595 Old 09-21-2006, 04:44 AM
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why are they downrezzing anyways? I'm assuming it's a cost issue?


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post #103 of 595 Old 09-21-2006, 04:57 AM
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Since I have both Directv and TWC, I can see for myself how bad Directv's HD offerings are. Even the mpeg-4 local HD channels are noticeably inferior to Time Warner. For Robert Mercer to claim they are delivering high quality HD feeds is simply preposterous.

My HD DNS days are kaput!
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post #104 of 595 Old 09-21-2006, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MnGuy View Post

As an attorney myself, this is embarassing.

If you don't like the picture quality, subscribe to another service.

You still don't get it do you. Can you say MONOPOLY?

SUNDAY TICKET!

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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post #105 of 595 Old 09-21-2006, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ekattan View Post

I hope this grabs national attention. Directv has taken far to much davantage from it's unaware customers which is in fact an actual wrong doing.

I hope that the publicity make HD channels (DISC, HDNet, etc) take note and write minimum resolutions into their contracts. HD is going to explode in the next few years and I am sure future channels like TLC or THC don't want the product they have spent $$$ on looking like crap because the provider is down rezzing it.

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post #106 of 595 Old 09-21-2006, 06:03 AM
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post #107 of 595 Old 09-21-2006, 06:41 AM
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I just sent the link off to the Boston Herald hoping they will publish it. I think this needs to get into the local appers to get more exposure as opposed to trade publications. I would suggest others send it to their local news outlets.
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post #108 of 595 Old 09-21-2006, 06:51 AM
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I can't believe the D* quote from the article, "DIRECTV's High Definition service is high quality, true HD service under accepted definitions for satellite TV".

What is that, they make there own rules for what "TRUE HD" is and this can be different for Sat then OTA, cable, etc.?

What a joke, there are standards defined and they're not adhearing to them!!! Their down rez'd HD Lite is a joke and this is 1 reason why I left them. I hope he wins the suit and they have to pump up the resolution again...
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post #109 of 595 Old 09-21-2006, 07:59 AM
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Given the time it will take for this suit to make its way through the legal system, I'm guessing that the plantiff will prevail and the court will force DirecTV to provide ATSC defined HD bandwidth and resolution at the same time as the new satellites come on line. DirecTV will have a huge advertising campaign that they are providing "high quality" service and that they are complying with the lawsuit and that they will then provide several new national HD channels to their loyal subscribers.
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post #110 of 595 Old 09-21-2006, 08:27 AM
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In the complaint quoted in post #31, it alleges that D* represented that they would be delivering HD as defined by the ATSC at full 19.4Mps. Did D* ever actually state that or is the complainant saying that is what he understood them to mean by 1080i and 720p? Also paragraph 19 seems to get the vertical and horizontal lines muddled up, though as they quote the ATSC articles that may not matter.

I agree with some here that the most likely outcome of this case is that D* and others will add a disclaimer to their advertising and marketing material stating that they "may" reduce bitrate and resolution at their discretion. I think that the competition are keeping quiet at present in case some one decides to take them to court on a similar issue. Or are they not permitted to highlight a current court case as sub judice?

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post #111 of 595 Old 09-21-2006, 08:49 AM
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Quote:


In the complaint quoted in post #31, it alleges that D* represented that they would be delivering HD as defined by the ATSC at full 19.4Mps. Did D* ever actually state that or is the complainant saying that is what he understood them to mean by 1080i and 720p? Also paragraph 19 seems to get the vertical and horizontal lines muddled up, though as they quote the ATSC articles that may not matter.

How are we going to define Real HD...it seems to me you can't do it on the bit rate nor can you do it strictly on the resolution (as anyone who has watched a NBC Norte Dame football game can tell you.) I mean how can you say "unaltered?" I don't know how DirecTV gets the local HD channels uplinked but I think in the SD world they took 45 mbps studio feeds, converted them to an MPEG2 stream and then uplinked. I think the HD studio feed (before MPEG2 encoding) is close to 100 mbps. If D* takes a 19.2mbps MPEG2 stream and converts it to MPEG4 there is going to be some loss regardless of bit rate as you are going from one lossly compression scheme to another. If they take a studio feed, who is to say that a 8 mbits MPEG4 stream is just as good as a 19.2 mbps MPEG2 stream. Are how about services that deliver MPEG2 streams directly with no studio feed? Again, just the act of transcoding from MPEG2 to MPEG4 is going to degrade the signal. This is going to have huge implications for both D* and E* as they are counting on MPEG4 to get them the capacity they need.

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post #112 of 595 Old 09-21-2006, 09:49 AM
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If people could do a side by side comparison between D* and a C-Band HD feed , they would be blown away with the difference .

Lately, even the master C-Band SD feeds appear to have more detail than a D* HD soft image.
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post #113 of 595 Old 09-21-2006, 10:34 AM
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sdwow - Does the C-band feed you refer to equate to the 45Mb/s studio backhaul feed mentioned in jmallory's post above? I do understand that C-band is also referred to the BUD (big ugly dish) feed.
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post #114 of 595 Old 09-21-2006, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenC View Post

sdwow - Does the C-band feed you refer to equate to the 45Mb/s studio backhaul feed mentioned in jmallory's post above? I do understand that C-band is also referred to the BUD (big ugly dish) feed.

I don't know for sure but in the old analog days the BUD signals were standard NTSC broadcast video. I am not sure but I believe HD signals are MPEG2 compressed before they are uplinked for a National Network like HBO. Obviously, things like live sporting events are different and I believe they use different satellites for that.

Also note, that 45 mbps was for a SDTV feed, I believe the intermediate HD feed (what would come out a remote truck at a sporting event) is double that.

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post #115 of 595 Old 09-21-2006, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevOne View Post

I believe it's reasonable to assume that when you hear "HD" advertised, you're getting 720p or 1080i unless specified otherwise. The ATSC defines 720 as 1280x720 and 1080 as 1920x1080. IMO, it's safe to say by default, they're the governing HD body.

The courts will decide if the suit has real merit. In civil cases preponderance of evidence is what matters. Is it safe to assume what you're supposed to get when you hear 720 or 1080? I think the court may agree....

Agreed. In a civil case if a particular word or phrase is at issue (such as 720P and/or 1080i) the word or phrase will be given its "plain and ordinary meaning" unless there is a contract with an unambiguous definition of that word or phrase. In this case the plain and ordinary meaning of 720P is 1280 x 720, and 1080 is 1920 x 1080i. If the meaning is debated the court would look to accepted standards -- such as the ATSC definitions.

Also "preponderance of evidence" means only that the plaintiff must show that something is "more likely than not" to have occurred -- I.E. the scales of justice need only tip to 51/49.

In short, I think Directv has some problems here.

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post #116 of 595 Old 09-21-2006, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MnGuy View Post

As an attorney myself, this is embarassing.

If you don't like the picture quality, subscribe to another service.

Easier said than done. I have no other option for HD. My local cable has no HD and I can't receive E* because of sat positions and a wall that blocks them.

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post #117 of 595 Old 09-21-2006, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpeckinp View Post

Easier said than done. I have no other option for HD. My local cable has no HD and I can't receive E* because of sat positions and a wall that blocks them.


Hmmm...Maybe you should sue your local cable company for not providing exactly the service you want? Sue E* and make them move their sats? Sue the people that built the wall?

My point is if you don't like the service D* provides, get rid of them. This law suit is a waste of time. Let the market sort it out, not the Courts.

Wow, spoken like a Republican. Did I really write that??

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post #118 of 595 Old 09-21-2006, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don H View Post

You still don't get it do you. Can you say MONOPOLY?

SUNDAY TICKET!


Don't throw around words you don't understand.

DirecTv does not own the NFL, and DirecTv does not have a monopoly. Indeed, it was the advent of DirecTv that ended the cable monopoly on multi-channel pay television service. Without D* and D*, the cable companies would have had no competition at all until the telecos entered the market. Do you remember the days of cable before DBS? It was awful. It's great to see cable having to work hard to compete. It's good for all of us.

DirecTv paid for exclusive rights to the NFL Sunday Ticket, to gain a competitive advantage over cable. Maybe cable has a competitive advantage in HD picture quality. As a consumer, one must look at the plusses and minuses, factor in costs, and decide accordingly.

This lawsuit is dumb.

"Some have the speed, and the right combinations, but if you can't take the punches, it don't mean a thing."
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post #119 of 595 Old 09-21-2006, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MnGuy View Post

Hmmm...Maybe you should sue your local cable company for not providing exactly the service you want? Sue E* and make them move their sats? Sue the people that built the wall?

My point is if you don't like the service D* provides, get rid of them. This law suit is a waste of time. Let the market sort it out, not the Courts.

Wow, spoken like a Republican. Did I really write that??

Are you serious? Your argument is completely and utterly ridiculous.

The consumer is being deceived here, and the examples you gave do not fit the pattern. Cable companies and E* have disclaimers [as does D*] that service is subject to location [remember the D* ad? '.. as long as you have a clear view of the southern sky !!'].

Now if D* advertises HD programming, and the common accepted standard for HD is 1080i (1920*1080) and 720p (1280*720), it would be cheating if D* doesn't disclose to the user that their HD offerings are not at commonly accepted HD resolutions. The user has been deceived, and deserves to be compensated. The user has been led to purchase equipment with the promise of delivering HD programming, and commit to years of service with penalties for early termination.

At the very least, the users need to be disclosed the operating terms of service delivery where it differs from the generally accepted standards, with the option of discontinuing the service without penalty.

I have D* with their HD package and the HD-Tivo, having committed to 2 years of service with them, but now I also have access to Adelphia cable to compare the difference between the quality of D*'s offering to what is available from cable. D* HD programming is sub-par compared to my cable's HD.
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post #120 of 595 Old 09-21-2006, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MnGuy View Post

This lawsuit is dumb.

So was the one when the lady spilled coffee on her legs. Read a McDonald's coffee cup next time you go there.

HEY, you viewing dumbasses!

NOW!
NEW!
ALL NEW!

(insert name of show here)
NEXT!
8/9 PM ET
TUESDAY!
NEXT WEEK!
IN 2 WEEKS!



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