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post #4621 of 6863 Old 01-09-2012, 08:59 AM
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Hello to everyone...
As a huge Dexter fan I accidentally googled this forum before Season 5 aired and then in fact in a few days read almost all of this thread from the very beginning...Since then I kept an occasional eye on this and looked for new episode reactions and weekly Dad's column review/overview/whatever it is...

This rewatch project thus has a additional value to me...

Since I am in a middle in of my exam period and have a problem with a procrastination I can't exactly watch and write down my thoughts and opinions, but I decided to register here and just try to discuss the show here...
This is one of the best forums I've seen people talking about this show, sure it's not that much of a challenge since I sometimes discuss this on imdb or the other sites/comments like on AVclub which likes to trash this show lately...

Here are my tidbits/corrections, don't expect anything deep, afterall english isn't my native language(if you didn't notice yet):

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Originally Posted by dad1153 View Post

Dexter's first words, 'Tonight's the night...', became an instant catch-phrase. The show has managed to insert 'tonight's the night' somewhere in every "Dexter" season premiere since except for S5 (because of the shock of what came at the end of S4 not making it possible... would have been totally out of character).

I believe you're mistaken Dad.
We've had classic opening with night drive in Seasons 1,2,4.
Then Miguel Prado had his "night" according to Dexter in episode "I Had a Dream" from Season 3.
Last addition to this tradition appeared in episode "Everything is Ilumenated" from Season 5, when Dex is looking forward to "old times" in his lab during packing photos of victims of Lance Robinson.
Funny thing is I don't remember hearing this line in Season 6...

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Dexter's first-ever on-camera victim, Mike Donovan (who molested and killed choir children), is taken hostage by Dex in a very similar way that Dex took Travis hostage this past season (wire around the neck from behind the driver's seat). Guess S6 had a lot more shout-outs to S1 than just the mentions/inclusion of the Ice Truck Killer sub-plots..

They even used the same music during this sequence, and I remember the feeling, while watching this, feeling that send me back to when this show wasn't just average/good, but extraordinary...

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Later in the episode there's an almost-throwaway scene where Dex sees the "widow" (though she doesn't know it) of Mike Donovan showing up at Miami Metro asking about her missing husband. It's a not-so-little detail (the victims/family members that Dex leaves behind by taking justice in his hands) that the show would pretty much forget/put behind as it went along.

I recall Season 2, when the Miami metro was overcrowded by the every family member of a missing persons from last 10 year or so as said by Batista.

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It goes without saying, but six years removed from present time everybody in the cast (except for David Zayas, James Remar and Lauren Vélez) looks so young and baby-like. Jennifer Carpenter looks 10 years younger as a Vice/Homicide cop than what she looked like on the show last year!

Debra had a curly hairstyle that made her look younger, I am pretty sure if we compare her in uniform outfits from Season 1 and Season 6 the difference wouldn't be as striking...
I remember to notice wrinkles on M.C. Halls face from Season 3 onwards, but although he looked tired in Seasons 4 and 5 for obvious reasons(the wig didn't help either), last year he was looking better than ever...

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The humid Miami weather gives the sweat in the actors' face (and on their clothes, particularly the back of Dex's shirt) a degree of authenticity and present day 'noir' that it lost since S2 when production moved to Los Angeles. It's dearly missed.

They moved the production in the middle of Season 1 according to this cool site "http://www.seeing-stars.com/dexter/index.shtm" (sorry, can't make it clickable yet). Another thing is that they changed the camera equipment starting with Season 3.

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When swimming in the canal at the start of "Crocodile" Dex is wearing shoes while in the water (we see them when he comes back aboard the Slice of Life). The hell?

... I mention this because this is a scene that sold me for this show beyond general interest...
"Look at them, they can laugh and play, it comes so easily for them. Even though I'm not one of them, even though sometimes I can really be a monster. Today, I am just a sea monster."

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We see Dexter testify in court during a case, something I can't conceive the current version of the show bothering to even consider doing. Except for scenes with Miguel Prado on Season 3 I don't recall another trip to the courthouse for Dex during the rest of the series. Anybody remember any other scenes of Dexter in court testifying for the people?

Premiere of Season 4, it's somehow tied to main plot, and we see Dexter fail miserably...

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Considering Deborah the cop introduced Rita the abuse victim to Dexter it's a shame there was very little interaction or scenes between Jennifer Carpenter and Julie Benz for most of the show's run. I can only think of a couple of throwaway scenes in Seasons 2 (when Deb substitutes for Dex on a date with Rita) and 4 (when Deb comes to stay at Dexter/Rita's home after she and Lundy are shot) when Deb and Rita actually talked like friends. The one scene in "Crocodile" where Rita and Deb are together the focus is entirely on either Shawn the mechanic or Dex spying on Guerrero.

Surely two heads know more than just one regarding some extra activities of a unnamed brother/boyfriend...
And the thing that there wasn't a mention of why didn't Rita consulted with Debra the supposed addiction (or scene where Dexter tells Rita that he wants this to stay between them). We can imply it...

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The scene where Dex Luminols his face and illuminates it (Lumen?) with an ultraviolet in his lab is a very weird one-off moment without dialogue. Just weird for weirdness' sake.

Surely disturbing.

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At this point in the series (two episodes in) the creative foul-mouthed Deborah Morgan we've come to love isn't here. It's just Deb talking trash and Doakes spewing uncreative-but-forcefully-uttered 'motherf***er' and 'f***' insults. I'd almost forgotten that, in Doakes' absence after S2, Deb's creative bad language was tailored by the writers as a way of keeping the energy of profanity brought by Doakes alive but with Carpenter's creative wordplay substituting for the energy Erik King brought to his role. The 'DEBisms' I'm listing are more of a formality based on where Deborah's creative insults evolved to because, this early in the show, they're pretty tame by latter-era "Dexter" standards.

Foul-mounthed...I leave it there "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7GrJo2YOew".
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post #4622 of 6863 Old 01-09-2012, 10:26 AM
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Well, wait a minute -- I thought taking personal snipes at folks while mentioning nothing of the topic at hand, was not the stuff of AVS, but well enough you do not subscribe, otherwise you may have been exposed to this....

So is that what you want? No offense intended, I enjoyed reading the recaps and interpertations...but look how much space it has already taken...now multiply that by twelve,,,Now think about the casual or new viewer just curious about what avs has to say about Dexter. Plese start a new thread that clarifys what you're doing so those of us that care to enjoy your insight can join in.Right now this is the only thread we have for Dexter, it is not the proper place for this.Its inevitably going to stagnate, with fewer members taking part. As those who don't care to wade through the lengthy posts drop out you'll end up talking to yourselves, which would be a shame because you have many interesting points to make. Plus, those who want only to discuss briefly their feeling about the show will no longer have a forum to do so...Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead have two threads, why not Dexter? It seems only fair, the polite thing to do. Again, don't take this wrong, I'm humbled by the time and thought you're devoting to my favorite show. It just seems to me this isn't the place for it.

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post #4623 of 6863 Old 01-09-2012, 11:01 AM
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It seems we have already slogged thru our season-ending observations and speculations on the upcoming S7.

Although I won't be watching Dexter re-runs during the series break, if others want to and want to discuss it in this thread, fine...whatever.
If the faithful want to post in this thread Everything Dexter, fine...whatever.
I am not bothered.

A.P.S. deserve our protection....join the cause today!
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post #4624 of 6863 Old 01-09-2012, 11:22 AM
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^^^ And it's not like we're not going to post up-to-the-minute "Dexter" news the moment they break (through the "Hot Off The Press" column I contribute to... Gosh, I'm busy! ) along with these recaps. These recaps are just something to keep us (OK... me!) going in the slow months when the show isn't in production or in pre-production and casting new guest stars for next season.

MegaOvce, thanks for keeping me honest! I don't pretend to be the world's best-informed or biggest "Dexter" fan, so any help to keep the recaps as accurate as possible (except the parts that are obviously my own personal opinion) is appreciated. And thanks for joining AVS just to comment on "Dexter," you remind me a certain fellow that's also an AVS member but doesn't seem to post on any other thread... a guy whose handle rhymes with 'yak.'


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post #4625 of 6863 Old 01-09-2012, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by dad1153 View Post

These recaps are just something to keep us (OK... me!) going in the slow months when the show isn't in production or in pre-production and casting new guest stars for next season.

Nothing wrong with that.

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post #4626 of 6863 Old 01-09-2012, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dad1153 View Post

MegaOvce, thanks for keeping me honest! I don't pretend to be the world's best-informed or biggest "Dexter" fan, so any help to keep the recaps as accurate as possible (except the parts that are obviously my own personal opinion) is appreciated. And thanks for joining AVS just to comment on "Dexter," you remind me a certain fellow that's also an AVS member but doesn't seem to post on any other thread... a guy whose handle rhymes with 'yak.'

Thanks, I'm happy to help/contribute ...
I might look into other shows threads here, as I watched more than just Dexter, Breaking Bad or Boardwalk Empire comes to mind...but...Kudos to Dexter's crew that I still want to talk about Dexter the most...
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post #4627 of 6863 Old 01-10-2012, 02:55 AM
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If anything in the pilot and "Crocodile" Michael C. Hall overacts a little during his scenes with co-workers to show he's normal. It's most obvious in the pilot when Dex is being interviewed by LaGuerta in an ambulance after the ITK threw the head at Dexter's car. Dex looks way too cool and calculated for lab geek that pretended to be cop tailing the ice truck. It stands out as show-offy, the same way Dex seems to be trying too hard to show-off during the crime scene re-enactments for blood splatter patterns. As the show went along Hall got more comfortable and dialed down Dex's 'normalcy' mannerisms down a notch, which were just right.

Yes, no doubt they are overcompensating for what they assumed might be a tough sell -- the monster amongst us. It was one of the main things that stood out for me in the rewatching -- that bubbly, overanimated, almost glad-handing-politician Dexter careening through scenes with broad smile and howdy-do for one and all. They did ultimately find the appropriate tone at some point (perhaps we will note as we rewatch when exactly it settled in or started to turn around) -- to fit in does not mean beam like the brightest star, there should be some measured comfort, some fluidity/facility without attracting undue attention.

Concerning the tailing of the ice truck and how we got there, I might have preferred a little more tentativeness in the treatment. The theory was hatched over lunch I think, Dexter gets a notion from cell crystallization -- refrigeration, which then expands to ice truck, to stolen ice truck. Well and good to think creatively, but it banked into a rather too-hard transition to established fact for my taste. Reasonable enough to conclude that the bodies were frozen, in fact one might assume pretty obvious conclusion given cellular damage consistent with that, as well as the unique blood-drainage going on and bodies discovered a bit colder than they might be expected to be, but one need not assume an ice truck -- how unusual is that going to be? If someone hijacks an ice truck, leaving all the logos in place and drives it out in the open late at night when traffic is sparse, one assumes that virtually any patrol unit spotting said vehicle will automatically register recognition to a BOLO -- these are very expensive vehicles and stand out enough anyway, let alone with a stolen vehicle alert tacked on. For someone to actually steal one and drive it around like that...well, maybe not the most obvious conclusion you could draw.

But assuming it is one of the possibilities, I think it might have made more sense to include a few more refrigeration-linked speculations in the mix along the way. It just struck me as a little too pat -- Dexter gets notion, Deb, who is a vice officer, dares to voice it as the theory she will stand behind, Dexter encounters truck. I think it is fine that he tailed it -- I would, good enough theory for curiosity, especially if it seems to be driving no place -- you would almost know then. The Laguerta love eyes for Dexter in the ambulance was weird to look back on -- had totally repressed that interlude in the series -- be interesting to see how they backed out of it, as I've totally forgotten that as well.

Just another little morsel on Dexter reciting the exact number of cases he had worked on, this in my mind was more evidence that Dexter is assiduous, punctilious, bordering on OCD. He calls himself a very neat monster. They are creating the essential mythos, the Dexter core. But seasons later we have him stealing a gun (on camera no doubt) from a convenience store whose clerk has abandoned the register for 15 or 20 minutes (the once sexless Dexter having violated this stranger on a sudden impulse) -- his prints everywhere to confirm identity in case there was any doubt who stole the weapon, then the weapon is used against him because he left it in a car he gave someone the keys to, this provokes him to spear the guy with a handy pitchfork leaving blood all over the place, then Dexter drags said hapless hick out to a grain silo and manipulates the presumably profusely bleeding body, hoisting it 50 feet upwards or so to dump him never to be seen again?

I suppose there will be some backing off of the strictly compulsive Dexter we were originally introduced to, just as they thankfully modified the cheery bright-beam demeanor, but that is quite a brutal hair-pin from OCD neatness obsessive to Oscar Madison bull-in-the-China-shop spree killer. I'll be looking for signs they are easing into a different understanding of Dexter as we go, but that is going to take some doing point A to point B.....
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post #4628 of 6863 Old 01-10-2012, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dad1153 View Post

DEX's favorite quip: 'If God is in the details, and if I believed in God, then he's in this room with me. I just wish he'd brought an extension cord.'
Dexter's first-ever on-camera victim, Mike Donovan (who molested and killed choir children), is taken hostage by Dex in a very similar way that Dex took Travis hostage this past season (wire around the neck from behind the driver's seat). Guess S6 had a lot more shout-outs to S1 than just the mentions/inclusion of the Ice Truck Killer sub-plots.

Just thought it worthy of a mention that God/religion came into play at another moment as Dexter confronts the choir leader. "Look what you did!" Here he exhibits major realistic anger (pretty good for someone who feels nothing), demanding that the culprit gaze upon his handiwork. Our choir guy crosses himself, Dexter disdainfully abuses him a little, I think pushes him or jams a finger in his face, and derisively says "that never helped anyone." It made me think in that moment, along with the reappearance of Rudy last season, that the writers group must have gone back to season one in a very conscious attempt to recapture some of the lost glory, and expanded on some themes that were just sampled there, as well as actually reintroducing dead players from the era.
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post #4629 of 6863 Old 01-10-2012, 06:09 AM
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So is that what you want? No offense intended, I enjoyed reading the recaps and interpertations...but look how much space it has already taken...now multiply that by twelve,,,Now think about the casual or new viewer just curious about what avs has to say about Dexter. Plese start a new thread that clarifys what you're doing so those of us that care to enjoy your insight can join in.Right now this is the only thread we have for Dexter, it is not the proper place for this.Its inevitably going to stagnate, with fewer members taking part. As those who don't care to wade through the lengthy posts drop out you'll end up talking to yourselves, which would be a shame because you have many interesting points to make. Plus, those who want only to discuss briefly their feeling about the show will no longer have a forum to do so...Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead have two threads, why not Dexter? It seems only fair, the polite thing to do. Again, don't take this wrong, I'm humbled by the time and thought you're devoting to my favorite show. It just seems to me this isn't the place for it.

Dad and Emaych could start their own thread and be the only two posters and it would still get as long as this thread, and probably in a short period of time. Well, long as in word count anyway. Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

Seriously, though, I'm with lonwolf - move it to a separate thread.


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post #4630 of 6863 Old 01-12-2012, 02:01 PM
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Dexter season 9 a possibility? Deb teaming up with Dexter? Major shakeup coming? Interesting read....

http://screenrant.com/dexter-season-...s-benk-146924/
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post #4631 of 6863 Old 01-12-2012, 02:36 PM
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Winter TCA Tour Notes
Showtime Mounts Documentary Push, Sets Return Dates For ‘Jackie’, ‘Big C’ & ‘Borgias’
By Nellie Andreeva, Deadline.com - Jan. 12, 2012

Diane Haithman is contributing to Deadline’s TCA coverage.

Showtime is making a major play in the documentary space. On the heels of the recent greenlight for a documentary about infamous rap mogul Suge Knight directed by Antoine Fuqua, the pay cable network today announced The World According To Dick Cheney, a documentary chronicling the life of the former Vice President, which will be directed by The War Room helmer R.J. Cutler. Additionally, Showtime is developing a Richard Pryor docu, through it is still in early stages, and talks with Pryor’s family for their cooperation are ongoing. The three projects are part of what Showtime calls “a new initiative to produce a slate of high-end, filmmaker-driven portraits of iconic figures.” “I had feeling we can have a real impact with documentaries,” Showtime entertainment president David Nevins said during the network’s TCA executive session this morning. The plan is to roll out the initiative slowly with a handful of documentaries and to produce more if they do well.

Nevins said that there is “clear endgame in place” for veteran drama Dexter, whose recent two-season pickup is the “likely endpoint,” “but I’m allowing for the possibility that the plan can change,” he added. He defended an incest-ish plotline this past season that linked adopted siblings Debra (Jennifer Carpenter) and Dexter (Michael C. Hall). “I’m aware that there’s a certain taboo despite the fact that they’re not genetically related, but it’s something that has been building for a number of years,” he said. As for last season’s big reveal in the finale — where Deb catches Dex in the act of executing a serial killer — Nevins said the reveal will have a major impact on the show. “I’ve been pushing to shake up the formula a bit,” he said. “There’s going to be fundamentally different dynamics now. It’s time to shake up Dexter so he’s not just a lone wolf.”

Nevins confirmed that sports reality series The Franchise will return for a second season with a new “very interesting” Major League Baseball team, the deal with which is still being finalized.

Nevins also announced that series Nurse Jackie, The Big C and The Borgias will return April 9. He dismissed the notion that the upcoming fourth season of Nurse Jackie will be its last. “I believe there’s life (there),” Nevins said. His big priority for this coming summer is the second season of comedy Episodes starring Matt LeBlanc. “There will be a major marketing shift this year, I think that the show has real potential,” Nevins said. He recalled reading all nine scripts of Season 2 in one sitting on one day, referring to that as “one of the most memorable days I had.” Breakout hit and critical darling Homeland will return for a second season in the fall, with Nevins hinting that Season 2 of the thriller drama won’t necessarily pick up the day after Season 1 ends.

Nevins also talked about two of the Showtime series currently on the air, noting that Shameless, which was up sharply in its second-season premiere last Sunday “hasn’t gotten the recognition it deserves” and that new comedy House Of Lies, which opened solidly, has “hit potential.” He called it a “comedy about everything that’s messed up in American capitalism.” The show centers on a brash, flawed management consultant played by Don Cheadle, prompting a question why all Showtime comedies are about unlikable characters. “I don’t ever want to get formulaic,” Nevins said. “People look to us for challenging characters.”

Nevins also downplayed Showtime’s rivalry with fellow pay cabler HBO. “HBO, they do their thing and they are doing fine. We are all all trying to make noisy programming that sticks out of the crowd.”

http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/show...big-c-borgias/


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post #4632 of 6863 Old 01-13-2012, 07:12 PM
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I'm aware that there's a certain taboo despite the fact that they're not genetically related, but it's something that has been building for a number of years, he said.[/url]

Building for a number of years? That's REALLY RICH BS. Run for cover AWipe
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post #4633 of 6863 Old 01-13-2012, 09:36 PM
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Couldn't you have just posted the Dexter relavant portion of that, dad?


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post #4634 of 6863 Old 01-14-2012, 05:42 AM
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Dad I like your ending to the series. I can see it play out the way you described. No one believing Dexter when he comes clean. Maybe he will have lost something that compels him to confess.
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post #4635 of 6863 Old 01-14-2012, 08:19 AM
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Dad I like your ending to the series. I can see it play out the way you described. No one believing Dexter when he comes clean. Maybe he will have lost something that compels him to confess.

Spoiler alert for the movie American Psycho below; don't read if you haven't seen it. I don't know how to do the spolier alert thing through the Android App - sorry.
































That sounds like the end of American Psycho, although it was all in his head in that instance.


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post #4636 of 6863 Old 01-14-2012, 08:55 AM
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Nevins said the reveal will have a major impact on the show. I've been pushing to shake up the formula a bit, he said. There's going to be fundamentally different dynamics now. It's time to shake up Dexter so he's not just a lone wolf.

Uh-oh....did he just let spill the beans?
As in...Dex and Deb team-up?

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post #4637 of 6863 Old 01-14-2012, 09:16 AM
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^^^ Either that or Lumen is coming back and Deb will know about it and won't rat them out. If it even smells like Julia Stiles is coming back (even for a one-off episode like Chris Camargo's return last season) the gloves come off.


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post #4638 of 6863 Old 01-14-2012, 10:13 AM
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^^^ Either that or Lumen is coming back and Deb will know about it and won't rat them out.

I doubt that would work.
Lumen could come back for a one-off, but as far as a regular character again...nah, would just be too dumb.

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post #4639 of 6863 Old 01-14-2012, 10:33 AM
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Nevins...defended an incest-ish plotline this past season that linked adopted siblings Debra (Jennifer Carpenter) and Dexter (Michael C. Hall). “I’m aware that there’s a certain taboo despite the fact that they’re not genetically related, but it’s something that has been building for a number of years,” he said. As for last season’s big reveal in the finale — where Deb catches Dex in the act of executing a serial killer — Nevins said the reveal will have a major impact on the show. “I’ve been pushing to shake up the formula a bit,” he said. “There’s going to be fundamentally different dynamics now. It’s time to shake up Dexter so he’s not just a lone wolf.”

Building for at least a few years. Possibly the somewhat muted nuptials between costars due in part to not wanting to tip the hand too obviously vis a vis anticipated plot developments.

I take the last quoted reference there to imply that Dexter's life will not now be operating at such great remove from human connection, not necessarily suggesting actual accompaniment on exploits, and/or tactical support.

In keeping with the theory that the writers went back into season 1 for current source material, tomorrow night's rewatch episode (third of S1), features a moment wherein Dexter declares roughly: "Harry did not teach that the willful taking of life represents an ultimate disconnect from humanity, makes you an outsider looking in, SEARCHING FOR COMPANY." [emphasis mine] I thought that last bit noteworthy because I'd totally forgotten it. One might even take it for a throw-away tack-on to the "outsider looking in" concept, except for the all the instances where satellite characters have been allowed extraordinary access. It even helps to set up Prado and Lumen in a more long range way than I thought they successfully achieved (if interpreted beyond just finishing out the loner concept of that particular sentence).
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post #4640 of 6863 Old 01-14-2012, 10:37 AM
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They are going to totally f@# up this show if there is another team up. They did it once with Lumen it was ok, I can't see Debra as a killer.
The good thing is I don't believe any of the PR spin that's put out by Showtime.
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The good thing is I don't believe any of the PR spin that's put out by Showtime.

In this you are no doubt very wise!
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post #4642 of 6863 Old 01-14-2012, 11:00 AM
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I think some people agree two seasons to wrap it up. Just go back to the dark side of Dexter, less commercial. which could mean less is better, simple but cool. They could always leave an opening for another season or Movie.
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I think some people agree two seasons to wrap it up. Just go back to the dark side of Dexter, less commercial. which could mean less is better, simple but cool. They could always leave an opening for another season or Movie.

I hate the idea of a movie.

Dexter can't go on forever racking up kills.
At a certain point, there has to be some kind of closure for the show.
Otherwise, ye ol' Suspension of Disbelief will be harder to maintain...

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post #4644 of 6863 Old 01-15-2012, 03:44 PM
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'The Dexter 2012/2013 Rewatch Project'
Ep.103: 'POPPING CHERRY'
By dad1153, AVSForum.com - Jan. 15, 2012




Plot Summary: After the dead body of another of victim of the so-called "Ice Truck Killer" is found on the ice rink at Miami's Hockey Dome, Dexter helps out Debra when Lt. Laguerta decides to have the department pursue a security guard whom they believe is ITK. Meanwhile, Rita receives an unpleasant visit from her imprisoned ex-husband's drug dealer who confiscates her car. Dexter zeros in on his next victim, a recently paroled teenage murderer who harbors some dark secrets of his own. Dexter also flashes back to committing his first killing. Elsewhere, Sgt. Doakes continues to hound the drug kingpin Carlos Guerrero but gets in over his head. (Source: DexterWikia)

Premiere Dates: 10/15/06 (SHO), 3/02/08 (CBS)
Writer: Daniel Cerone
Director: Michael Cuesta
AVS Comments: Iteki did it first (scroll down after clicking to see other after-the-show-aired reactions from back in '06).




I remember my first time. It was messy, confusing, weird, odd, disturbing... then I got an HD subscription for my then-new HDTV set.

This episode aired (edited for network TV) on CBS at 10 p.m. on Sunday, 3/02/98. It got 6.9 million viewers (Source: HOTP Thread/Media Life Magazine).
First episode where the title card has the episode name with a brownish/dirty-spec look that remains to this day. That makes the title card for the previous episode, 'Crocodile,' the only title done in a different color (all white) besides the deliberately-different 'Dexter' title card for the pilot.
First script (of six) written by Daniel Cerone, a show producer during the show's first two seasons. His previous work included shows like "Charmed" and "Threshold." Since leaving "Dexter" Cerone has worked on shows like "Dirty Sexy Money" and "The Mentalist."
Denise Crosby (Lt. Tasha Yar on "Star Trek: The Next Generation") plays an 'angel of death' nurse named Mary that, at Harry's behest (she was poisoning Harry), becomes adult Dexter's first kill room victim. It's interesting that, since most of the people that wind up in Dex's table are men, a killer woman named Mary 'gives birth' to the ritual that becomes an integral part of Dex's kill ritual. Over the top symbolim?
As a dog person I can only nod approvingly of the portrayal of Nurse Mary's cat, Mr. Tinker, not doing a damn thing to try and help her master.
In this episode it's established that Dex can sense others like him (in this case Nurse Mary) that are killers or, one assumes (though the phrase isn't used) carry a 'dark passenger' within them. This 'Dex can sense others like him' feature idea hasn't really been consistently implemented throughout the series but, as a concept, it's still in use. Most recent example was Dex seeing Travis at the 'angel fall' crime scene and immediately sensing Travis was like Dex (though the visual of Travis looking happy while everyone else scrambled to avoid the locusts made it way too obvious, unlike the more subtle way it's shown in 'Popping Cherry').
Many TV shows try (and fail) to try and pass their older characters as younger versions of themselves with wigs, make-up, special lighting, etc. (Howard Stern's "Private Parts" movie made it a point to highlight how old Stern looked when playing a young version of himself, to great effect). Notice, for example (picture below), how when young Deb & Dex are standing next to a dying Harry the light is placed directly behind them so we can barely see Jennifer Carpenter's face. "Dexter" gets away with these 'young Deb/Dex' flashbacks, but barely. Michael C. Hall looks ridiculous wearing a wig when playing a younger version of himself (especially since the same episodes features scenes with teenage Dexter actor Devon Graye). But, while he looks ridiculous, Hall's acting keeps the scenes where he saves Harry/kills Nurse Mary watchable and amusing without pushing it.
I always felt the series did a disservice to Deborah Morgan's character by never showing scenes of Harry giving her any affection or love because he was preoccupied with training Dexter. Still, the scene where Harry outright ignores Deb while giving what he thinks are his dying advice to Dex (which the show tries to cushion with the 'Deb wheels Harry around in wheelchair' scenes) seems particularly cruel and harsh.
After killing Nurse Mary Dexter mentions, when teenage Deborah is spinning Harry around on a wheelchair, that Harry 'lived for another year before the hardening of his arteries took him away for good.' We (along with Dexter) wouldn't find out until deep into Season 2 that Harry actually ended his own life after he saw first-hand Dex's serial killing in action.
Again, considering what he ended up doing (indirectly) to her mother, the scene when Dex plays with Astor and removes a splinter ('If I had a heart it'd be broken right now') feels bitter-sweet and sad. I'll stop saying this now because it's a feeling that will happen over and over for the next four seasons, but it's especially poignant during the first season when Astor and Cody were such cute kids.
Dexter's last line of the episode when delivering a "borrowed" car to Rita's, 'Score one for the wooden little boy,' is a clear allusion to him being Pinocchio, a wood-carved living thing that is nevertheless not human. Pinocchio's fondest wish was to become a real boy. This is the first ever reference in the series, however indirect, to Dexter wishing he would be a normal person. All previous comments about himself up to this one focused on what a monster-pretending-to-be-human Dexter is.
On hindsight, one of Deb's former prostitute girlfriends is right when he refers to LaGuerta as a pimp.
I'd forgotten how Doakes was a 'bull in a china shop' angry-but-controlled cop with others besides Dexter. His reckless confrontation of Guerrero at a church where the latter's daughter was present was only matched by his having an affair with a cop's wife. The affair bites Doakes in the ass when other cops frame him up for a beat down on one of Guerrero's associates. The shot of Doakes running alone in an empty street away from his fellow cops is one of the few S1 moments where James looks alone and compltely vulnerable.
For a show that has made it a crucial point to showcase how cool and in control of his emotions Dexter is the sight of him freaking out when a crocodile appears out of nowhere is both thrilling and laugh-out loud funny.
Jeremy Downs (Mark L. Young) becomes someone we've become all too familiar with in "Dexter" over the years: the red herring character that Dex shows himself to (three times, and in all three they make it seem like Jeremy doesn't recognize Dex from his previous two encounters) but doesn't end up causing Dexter any trouble later on. Unlike the gratuitous exposure Dex subjects himself to in latter seasons though (i.e. the cashier in "Nebraska") in "Popping Cherry" Jeremy serves the purporse (then still new) of Dex making sure his victims are guilty before taking them down. Since it contrasts with Dexter's first 'messy' kill of Nurse Mary it's actually a refreshing and contrasting 'B' storyline to the similar 'B' story of Dex's 'first time.'
DEBism of the episode: (to Batista while checking security footage): 'The killer is framing Tucci... LaGuerta's gonna lose her sheep s*** when she finds out.'
DEX's favorite quip: (when walking toward the remains ITK left inside a hockey stadium goal) 'This is like a dream... standing on the home ice of the Miami Blades!' Runner-up: (to Rita in the bathroom after Paul's friend took her car) 'You OK? Do you need toilet paper?'



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post #4645 of 6863 Old 01-16-2012, 06:31 AM
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Denise Crosby (Lt. Tasha Yar on "Star Trek: The Next Generation") plays an 'angel of death' nurse named Mary that, at Harry's behest (she was poisoning Harry), becomes adult Dexter's first kill room victim. It's interesting that, since most of the people that wind up in Dex's table are men, a killer woman named Mary 'gives birth' to the ritual that becomes an integral part of Dex's kill ritual. Over the top symbolim?

Well, if symbolism, certainly no immaculate conception. Not unreasonable to conclude the writers might have had something in mind with that though, there has been some little exposure here and there to religious concepts already. One thing that struck me was that she claimed to be a mercy killer, helping to diminish patient pain, yet to do it slowly over time, as with arsenic or some other cumulative killer, seemed to be putting Harry in unreasonable discomfort, and thereby presumably damages her ability to make the mercy claim as well as try and get away with it. This is not the norm in such cases I should think -- a single injection at the appropriate moment maybe more likely, but even more shocking to me was Harry prompting Dexter that the time had come! Had totally erased this from memory!

Not only does this secure Harry as the at least equally guilty co-collaborator (a murderer in his own right), but this fact means that from the outset Dexter's kills were conspiratorial. I had really reacted fairly strongly to Dexter allowing Prado into his hidden world, but from the earliest moment Dexter had a compatriot and may have been quite receptive to duplicating that kind of rush. As we watch through the seasons it will be interesting to note if they played up this angle -- my sense of it is that not enough was done to ease us into Prado, but then it looks like I'm prone to forget very salient backstory foundation. In any case it is very likely going to affect me quite differently, as will all the rewatching no doubt, with what we come to know of Dexter and DEXTER.

One thing that intrigued me was that Dexter had his trademark hypo for the operation. One wonders what was in it. I somehow got the notion, which may be dead wrong of course, that Dexter landed on his animal magic tranq through job-related knowledge and/or exposure to contacts accrued through those channels, but here I don't believe we are supposed to think Dexter is yet working in the field. Hard to know the exact timeline I guess, with that heinous wig and horrific representation of him as quasi-adolescent? Of course they had to use MCH for the grappling first kill -- nothing else going to work, but perhaps that is the reason the age seems a little unclear.
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As a dog person I can only nod approvingly of the portrayal of Nurse Mary's cat, Mr. Tinker, not doing a damn thing to try and help her master.

HA! Indeed. That was a great cut-away slice of typical feline insouciance, or maybe intended to help mollify the audience into accepting Dexter's violence -- I mean, if the lady's own pet is indifferent, she is not looking like such a good person, but then again if that was the thought, a dog would have made that point much better, since we know cats don't give a damn....

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In this episode it's established that Dex can sense others like him (in this case Nurse Mary) that are killers or, one assumes (though the phrase isn't used) carry a 'dark passenger' within them. This 'Dex can sense others like him' feature idea hasn't really been consistently implemented throughout the series but, as a concept, it's still in use. Most recent example was Dex seeing Travis at the 'angel fall' crime scene and immediately sensing Travis was like Dex (though the visual of Travis looking happy while everyone else scrambled to avoid the locusts made it way too obvious, unlike the more subtle way it's shown in 'Popping Cherry').

Good connection there -- hadn't thought of that. Yeah, I gathered that Travis stood out to Dexter because he had that inappropriate sappy wonderment expression, and stood out to us because of that parted Red Sea reveal wherein I'm seeming to recall he was strangely illuminated at the end of a gap in the crowd -- cinematic techniques exploited to highlight Dexter's recognition, like the magic blood, but I did not in that moment hearken back to the original concept that Dexter was something of a supernatural savant with regard to fellow killer recognition. It was my sense they had largely abandoned that avenue, so did not consider it.

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Many TV shows try (and fail) to try and pass their older characters as younger versions of themselves with wigs, make-up, special lighting, etc. (Howard Stern's "Private Parts" movie made it a point to highlight how old Stern looked when playing a young version of himself, to great effect). Notice, for example (picture below), how when young Deb & Dex are standing next to a dying Harry the light is placed directly behind them so we can barely see Jennifer Carpenter's face. "Dexter" gets away with these 'young Deb/Dex' flashbacks, but barely. Michael C. Hall looks ridiculous wearing a wig when playing a younger version of himself (especially since the same episodes features scenes with teenage Dexter actor Devon Graye). But, while he looks ridiculous, Hall's acting keeps the scenes where he saves Harry/kills Nurse Mary watchable and amusing without pushing it.

As you have made mention, JC looks young enough to be right there, but MCH! -- going from the kid to this fright wig -- WOW! I don't know -- I don't know what they could have done differently, but that bouncing back and forth to the various Dexters, then this final bit -- it was jarring to say the least, and unfortunately then does not easily slip into our memories of Dexter's upbringing -- instead I'm left recalling mostly that someone else went through those early experiences, not our Dexter. It takes an intellectual interpretation to integrate it, which is a shame -- imagine how much more real it would seem if they had gotten all this exactly spot on. I don't recall that any such techniques ever were correct in anything I've seen of this kind, so they did what they could I suppose, short of planning the series twenty years earlier and using the young MCH...

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I always felt the series did a disservice to Deborah Morgan's character by never showing scenes of Harry giving her any affection or love because he was preoccupied with training Dexter. Still, the scene where Harry outright ignores Deb while giving what he thinks are his dying advice to Dex (which the show tries to cushion with the 'Deb wheels Harry around in wheelchair' scenes) seems particularly cruel and harsh.

I don't know Dad -- seems that all that WAS in the service of her character -- the more or less desperate longing to be accepted and shown love even by much older men, the attention need manifested in extravagant profanity, even the current looking for love from another family member, all related to deprivation of special attention from Harry -- it is Deb's central tragedy, in my view...

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After killing Nurse Mary Dexter mentions, when teenage Deborah is spinning Harry around on a wheelchair, that Harry 'lived for another year before the hardening of his arteries took him away for good.' We (along with Dexter) wouldn't find out until deep into Season 2 that Harry actually ended his own life after he saw first-hand Dex's serial killing in action.

Did not remember that either! -- man, looks like I'm going to have to rewatch just to know what happened in some basic way. I did think it odd that he was said to have died of hardening arteries though -- that is more a pre-curser to conditions which ultimately might cause death, but not the exact cause such as heart attack -- unknown why they might have gone with the arteries thing...

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Dexter's last line of the episode when delivering a "borrowed" car to Rita's, 'Score one for the wooden little boy,' is a clear allusion to him being Pinocchio, a wood-carved living thing that is nevertheless not human. Pinocchio's fondest wish was to become a real boy. This is the first ever reference in the series, however indirect, to Dexter wishing he would be a normal person. All previous comments about himself up to this one focused on what a monster-pretending-to-be-human Dexter is.

Yeah, that car was a weird bit -- struck me so on original viewing. Come now, a low-rider with custom dubs? -- you could not actually even drive that kind of thing around safely I should think -- might even encounter the original owner, but at least it incorporated some more religious iconography for us to mull over. Made me wonder if they think we think the only type of cars that get impounded are from that kind of criminal element -- maybe shooting for contrast to Dexter hiding in plain sight? -- I don't know, but Dexter borrowing the car from impound before auction? -- I guess it is turning out that DEXTER always had these foolish bits in there. I might have suppressed the recall of these due to them not being so far absolutely critical to the plot, and in fact I do not recall Rita driving this car around much, but I guess we shall see...

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On hindsight, one of Deb's former prostitute girlfriends is right when he refers to LaGuerta as a pimp.

I thought it odd that Deb had that much contact with the prostitutes -- I mean, there you had a whole bustling intersection or district even, just swarming with activity. Seems you could make all the busts you wanted just on observation. And the stings that I've seen portrayed in reality, were isolated staged events where a single undercover operates off of a corner picked or cleared for having no other activity. It reduces the variables. If Deb was actually mixing and mucking around in the element, presumably she only maintains undercover status with interventions of a pimp, etc. -- very messy and not at all focused on busting Johns. But here again, unexpected dramatic license in the early DEXTER....

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I'd forgotten how Doakes was a 'bull in a china shop' angry-but-controlled cop with others besides Dexter. His reckless confrontation of Guerrero at a church where the latter's daughter was present was only matched by his having an affair with a cop's wife. The affair bites Doakes in the ass when other cops frame him up for a beat down on one of Guerrero's associates. The shot of Doakes running alone in an empty street away from his fellow cops is one of the few S1 moments where James looks alone and compltely vulnerable.

Yeah, I'd forgotten that they set him up that way. That was dramatic. I'm sure about this time I was utterly thrilled at all the intrigue which I recognized as much more the way it is, than the way we typically see officers behaving on network TV (where I was originally exposed to DEXTER).

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For a show that has made it a crucial point to showcase how cool and in control of his emotions Dexter is the sight of him freaking out when a crocodile appears out of nowhere is both thrilling and laugh-out loud funny.

Yeah, not sure what that was for -- maybe just comedic effect alone, or punctuated his self-doubt at saving the other kid, being out there on a mission he did not quite understand, out of his element. This was an early Dexter-as-hero moment, the fact that he thwarted the kill, rather than, as he mentioned in VO, just executing the parolee for past crimes. It should be mentioned here too that the whole timeline of Dexter thwarting the presumed kill, chasing off the kids in one direction, then returning directly back to his car to find the window shattered was screwy. If Jeremy doubled back to the car, it would have taken much longer than Dexter just going directly back, but here more magic...

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Jeremy Downs (Mark L. Young) becomes someone we've become all too familiar with in "Dexter" over the years: the red herring character that Dex shows himself to (three times, and in all three they make it seem like Jeremy doesn't recognize Dex from his previous two encounters) but doesn't end up causing Dexter any trouble later on. Unlike the gratuitous exposure Dex subjects himself to in latter seasons though (i.e. the cashier in "Nebraska") in "Popping Cherry" Jeremy serves the purporse (then still new) of Dex making sure his victims are guilty before taking them down. Since it contrasts with Dexter's first 'messy' kill of Nurse Mary it's actually a refreshing and contrasting 'B' storyline to the similar 'B' story of Dex's 'first time.'

The interesting thing here for me was that Dexter is going to kill Jeremy on the account of his (Jeremy's) first kill -- getting off easy with just four years in a juvenile facility. I did not remember that apparently for Dexter, even murders for which the societal debt was paid, still may qualify for his special retribution -- that would mean an unending supply of murderers just coming out of jail alone, as it happens all the time. He singles Jeremy out because he knows the death cuts were damaging enough to not be random, therefore he savored the kill, therefore he will kill again. And sure enough looks like that is what he has in mind, but then according to what we discover, this new situation that Dexter chases him away from is a completely different thing. So it would seem that the Dexter radar is way off, while still being right on -- the kid WAS going to kill again, but we are supposed to know ultimately that the second episode was completely different.

What is supposed to be different is that Jeremy murdered the first guy for a reason. Most everyone involved in criminal justice will tell you that there is always a motive. But here we are supposed to think that rape justifies murder, and if the murder was justified, Jeremy drops off of Dexter's target list. This is a whole new unexpected complication -- the Dexter system getting very murky indeed. Humane saving from pain bad, worthy of murder, whereas the Jeremy murder, having been planned for a reason of being personally violated, is perfectly acceptable to Dexter, therefore he need not intervene. HMMMMM -- I did not expect to encounter all these complications and complexities going back, but here they are.

Dexter says in VO that no murder took place, Jeremy just taking out the garbage, and by "garbage" Dexter means to implicate someone not guilty of murder that we know -- so here we see with Dexter, it is perfectly OK to kill folks for other lesser crimes. Had again forgotten this early revelation. Then of course we see the young Dexter interposed with Jeremy's face through shadow, cementing the idea that Dexter and his system are the same, that he too will kill anyone he feels deserves it, or maybe that violates him, or even other people, short of them being an actual murderer.

Now of course the interlude ends in the kid mysteriously asking for something more than just to be walked away from, which is quite odd itself, but leads to Dexter telling Jeremy that the first kill was righteous -- maybe you could extrapolate that any slight might make someone death-worthy, not sure of the boundaries, but more or less clear that saving people from pain (the nurse), is worthy of death, and inflicting death on someone causing certain kinds of pain, is OK too, BUT, one SHOULD NOT murder someone who murders another someone, if they committed that murder due to being personally violated. BTW, it is nice if you are going to kill a kid, if you can find him in an abandoned youth center. Once again, I was surprised to see the motif of utterly abandoned facilities in early use here. This Miami is one strange kind of place....

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DEBism of the episode: (to Batista while checking security footage): 'The killer is framing Tucci... LaGuerta's gonna lose her sheep s*** when she finds out.'

Interesting side-note: when we see the one security tape, originally it is over the security guard's left shoulder from above, later the shot is taken from slightly to his right and closer to ground level -- the one camera having remarkable arena range. Probably one of those cable-mounted deals with lasers or sensors to detect a figure to rotate around. I was struck that Deb is surprised to see the guard looking side-to-side as if being framed -- she already had this theory, yet when being shown the evidence, she is totally blown away? -- did not get that....

Oh well, looks like the writing for DEXTER has something of a more consistent history than I remembered, but as Dexter remembers Harry teaching, none of us are what we appear to be on the outside, but we must maintain appearances to survive -- at least in the early going, I think the appearance of plausibility must have been pretty well maintained, and DEXTER has survived obviously, in later years that appearance really went to hell and it is doing better than ever, so maybe appearances not that critical to survival?.....
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The interesting thing here for me was that Dexter is going to kill Jeremy on the account of his (Jeremy's) first kill -- getting off easy with just four years in a juvenile facility. I did not remember that apparently for Dexter, even murders for which the societal debt was paid, still may qualify for his special retribution -- that would mean an unending supply of murderers just coming out of jail alone, as it happens all the time. He singles Jeremy out because he knows the death cuts were damaging enough to not be random, therefore he savored the kill, therefore he will kill again.

What is supposed to be different is that Jeremy murdered the first guy for a reason. Most everyone involved in criminal justice will tell you that there is always a motive. But here we are supposed to think that rape justifies murder, and if the murder was justified, Jeremy drops off of Dexter's target list. This is a whole new unexpected complication -- the Dexter system getting very murky indeed. Humane saving from pain bad, worthy of murder, whereas the Jeremy murder, having been planned for a reason of being personally violated, is perfectly acceptable to Dexter, therefore he need not intervene. HMMMMM -- I did not expect to encounter all these complications and complexities going back, but here they are.

Dexter says in VO that no murder took place, Jeremy just taking out the garbage, and by "garbage" Dexter means to implicate someone not guilty of murder that we know -- so here we see with Dexter, it is perfectly OK to kill folks for other lesser crimes.

Holy cow, I hadn't thought of it but Jeremy is just like Lumen: a sexual assault victim that fought back and got revenge. Only difference between Jeremy and Lumen is that the latter had the assistance and guidance of a master (Dex) helping her carry out her vengeful deeds while the former did it as a spur-of-the-moment crime of self-defense. The S1 Dexter was happy setting "victims" like Jeremy afloat after convincing himself they weren't going to harm others. The S5 Dexter, partly out of necessity (Lumen saw him kill) but also because he wanted to, actually got into the muck of revenge by assisting a rape victim get revenge. Clyde Philips approach vs. Chip Johannessen approach to showrunning, I guess.

If anything in this show's scales of justice (and assuming he doesn't turn out to be related somehow to the intern in S6, which I considered but ultimately rejected as too unlikely a connection) Jeremy qualifies as a success story, a traumatized young man that Dex 'turned around' in the show's version of a 'scared straight' intervention. The show asks us to buy Jeremy's rape admission to Dexter and we (who are at this point seduced by the show's premise and its charming psychopath) happily do so; no proof whatsoever of Jeremy's abuse exists, only his word which Dexter interprets as true AND WE BUY IT BECAUSE DEXTER SAYS HE BELIEVES JEREMY. Holy crap, I'm realizing how good and magical (like the blood in S5! ) a spell "Dexter" had over all of us during these early episodes/seasons.

BTW, when Dex approaches his busted-up car window after Jeremy and his friend smashed it and looks at the damage, I thought 'To Brother Sam's garage we go again!' and was going to write it but didn't. Yes, I'm a dork!


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Well, you know initially I was thinking self-defense in the Jeremy case, that is pretty much universally recognized as justification for using whatever force deemed necessary to resist attack (so here we might then assume it could be a deadly attack not just rape per se, to sanction deadly force), but then how was it that the rape was apparently conducted to fruition? If it is being referred to as having been accomplished, i.e., a "rape" versus an "attempted", then we presume Jeremy was not in a position to adequately defend himself from it at the time. Also Jeremy declares to Dexter that the guy raped him, THEN he killed him. Even if this occurred moments later, when Jeremy was not under direct threat, this does not automatically qualify as self-defense, at least for the most part in the eyes of the law. It was revenge killing. Even premeditated revenge killing, if it happened like: "Guy is getting dressed now, is vulnerable, I'll grab his this piece of metal and slash him!"

Of course one could argue ongoing threat, but it was never established that the death took place even remotely proximate in time -- apparently not essential for Dexter to be alright with it. Remember Dexter too makes sure about Jeremy's judgment coming into play, and asks him if the guy deserved to die. In other words, did Jeremy make the judgment that it was OK to kill him FOR WHAT HE DID (or possibly for what the rapist WAS, or what that act MADE HIM)? Jeremy says yes -- my read on that being that he killed him for being deserving, NOT for self-preservation. This dovetails with the Harry comment that certain folks deserve to die and I think is actually meant to echo it.

Also, remember Dexter perusing the photo catalogue of body injuries -- the rapist was slashed up. So we have possibly a surprise knife attack on the rapist, or we could have a situation where Jeremy was held at knifepoint, violated, then he grabs the knife at some point. Maybe in the latter scenario it could be a case of continuing to fight off the rapist and delivering multiple slashes (might not seem so natural to assume he would attack into a knife blade, though certainly possible), but Dexter said (in VO) that the wounds were strategically placed to cause bleed out -- which sort of stands against trying to fend the guy off. Plus in the eyes of the law, slashing a guy to death where he presumably stops attacking, looks less and less like self-defense in the moment.

Interestingly, it is indicated that part of what Dexter plans to kill Jeremy for is the sensed or presumed potential for ongoing murders based in part on that virtuoso performance of superior blade skill, yet even as Dexter is convinced that is precisely what Jeremy intended to do with the second kid, i.e., continue slashing people up (note if Jeremy killed because someone wronged him, this would NOT be a certain index of murders to come), Dexter still allows him to go forward just as before, because, we are shown, the first kill was something Dexter decides he is OK with, then he seems to be alright with Jeremy deciding from then on.

So I don't know if we are supposed to think that Jeremy is reformed -- Dexter himself is not even looking for that really -- he tells Jeremy that the second kid did not deserve to die (though would not know that) and to remember this BECAUSE IT MAY SAVE HIS (Jeremy's) LIFE ONE DAY, not that that would not be right or not be a good thing to do -- just don't kill people who do not deserve it ("deserve" here defined by much sloppier standard than I ever remembered) -- the appeal is to self-preservation, not on moral grounds. And simple self-preservation probably always going to be good too as reason to kill someone if necessary to achieve that, but here it is clear Dexter wants him to stick with the deserving, however sloppy the definition, and he'll be OK. Dexter's comment maybe even implies he might come looking for him, but I guess if Dexter finds he is alright with the victim's deeds qualifying for death, then guess he is OK with Jeremy heading on with the killing.
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post #4648 of 6863 Old 01-16-2012, 08:13 AM
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Oh, and yes, must conclude that I was definitely under a spell when originally watching -- NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT! Something was coming into play that does not persist into later seasons -- not sure what that was, maybe I'll discover it as we rewatch, but I was eating it up, in spite of things not exactly lining up like I assumed they must have for me to be giving myself over like I did....
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post #4649 of 6863 Old 01-17-2012, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dad1153 View Post

Holy cow, I hadn't thought of it but Jeremy is just like Lumen: a sexual assault victim that fought back and got revenge. Only difference between Jeremy and Lumen is that the latter had the assistance and guidance of a master (Dex) helping her carry out her vengeful deeds while the former did it as a spur-of-the-moment crime of self-defense.

Jeremy qualifies as a success story, a traumatized young man that Dex 'turned around' in the show's version of a 'scared straight' intervention. The show asks us to buy Jeremy's rape admission to Dexter and we (who are at this point seduced by the show's premise and its charming psychopath) happily do so; no proof whatsoever of Jeremy's abuse exists, only his word which Dexter interprets as true AND WE BUY IT BECAUSE DEXTER SAYS HE BELIEVES JEREMY. Holy crap, I'm realizing how good and magical (like the blood in S5! ) a spell "Dexter" had over all of us during these early episodes/seasons.

Just another wrinkle to consider: Jeremy might well have been telling the truth about being raped, while a willing participant in whatever sexual situation took place. As he was a minor at the time, even as a consenting party, legally speaking he was nevertheless raped, depending upon the specific act I suppose. Perhaps it may have been a situation where he was willing enough to go along with some experimentation, but later decided (possibly upon extraneous suggestion that he had been taken advantage of or raped), that it was a violation -- a violation that required retribution. This would fill some of the gaps -- perhaps Jeremy was establishing a pattern of being seduced, only to justify killing, much in the manner of Aileen Wuornos. He did seem to have ongoing desire to commit murder, which would seem unexplained if the first instance was for specific cause, and when Dexter pinned him up against the wall, practically the first suggestion that came out of his mouth was that maybe Dexter intended to rape him -- now if that is something you fear is a possibility, I think you do not immediately put that into your attacker's mind, unless it might satisfy a need to provide cause for another kill. In any case, didn't appear Dexter was contemplating many (or any) variant theories when he basically gave thumbs up to whatever Jeremy decided from then on (as long as victims "deserved" it).
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post #4650 of 6863 Old 01-18-2012, 09:43 PM
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Friendly Exes! Michael C. Hall & Jennifer Carpenter Grab Coffee in LA

http://www.celebuzz.com/2012-01-18/f...-in-la-photos/
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