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post #1 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 01:20 AM - Thread Starter
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When will the film studios change from old fashion reel tape to a digital HD camera?
I've been looking from different places to see if there is any theaters out there that
support high definition movies. But I got no luck at all. I wonder when will they
digitize the film format so it will be interesting to see in theaters not just a big screen
with volume maxed out.

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post #2 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 01:25 AM
 
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You are about 5 years too late.
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post #3 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 05:27 AM
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Visit movie-site imdb.com and search the technical section for "Viper" or "Genesis," two widely used digital-cinema cameras, and it'll list dozens of video-taped movies--and one, "Zodiac" (2007) , only recorded on hard drives, (with tape just for archiving.) -- John
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post #4 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Well then if they already recorded them in digital, then why don't they present it in a digital
HD projector in theaters?

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post #5 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by like.no.other. View Post

Well then if they already recorded them in digital, then why don't they present it in a digital
HD projector in theaters?

It is the theater's choice to put the money up for the digital projectors. Many don't want to put up the money, those projectors are ridiculously expensive.
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post #6 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 11:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by like.no.other. View Post

Well then if they already recorded them in digital, then why don't they present it in a digital
HD projector in theaters?

They do...you are about 5 years too late.
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post #7 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVFanAtic View Post

They do...you are about 5 years too late.

Name one movie theater that support HD movies.

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post #8 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by like.no.other. View Post

Name one movie theater that support HD movies.

Name one? You must be kidding.

Here is one list:

http://www.dlp.com/dlp_cinema/dlp_ci...ter_search.asp

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post #9 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

Name one? You must be kidding.

Here is one list:

http://www.dlp.com/dlp_cinema/dlp_ci...ter_search.asp

I give up. Stupid post, please delete.

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post #10 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 11:47 AM
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There are some IMAX theaters as well that have digital projectors although they are much farther and fewer between.

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post #11 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 11:57 AM
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Digital Cinema is actually beyond HDTV. The current DCI spec is 2048x1080/24P. Yes 2048 is not much more than 1920 but the big difference is in color space,. Digital Cinema is 444 full bandwidth unlike current broadcast HDTV that is 422 and further compressed to 420 for ATSC broadcast. The new XYZ color space for digital cinema is often quoted "as able to produce colors only aliens can see" It's range is beyond human color perception. DCI compliant servers also utilize JPEG2000 compression, not MPEG2 and can run up to 270mbs.

Even though most theaters still run film prints, more and more features are made through a "digital intermediate" process. This means the camera negative is scanned into computers and all color correction and editing is done electronically, not chemically or optically. The completed files are laser scanned out to new negative stock from wich prints are struck. This by the way is done at a minimum resolution of 2048x1556, (2K) and more and more 4096x3112, (4K). This process while not 100% start to end digital does greatly improve the projected film image. And of course the files for DC are made directly from the digitally corretced files as well and the home video versions.

Old fashioned 35mm film also still has many image quality and efficiency attributes over a video camera so most features done thorough the DI process still have a quality edge over 24p video cameras. That gap is closing with technology advances however and video cameras do have some attributes over film. DP's are now using each technology where is makes the best sense so more and more features are shot with a mix of film and 24P video.

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post #12 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

Even though most theaters still run film prints, more and more features are made through a "digital intermediate" process. This means the camera negative is scanned into computers and all color correction and editing is done electronically, not chemically or optically. The completed files are laser scanned out to new negative stock from wich prints are struck. This by the way is done at a minimum resolution of 2048x1556, (2K) and more and more 4096x3112, (4K). This process while not 100% start to end digital does greatly improve the projected film image. And of course the files for DC are made directly from the digitally corretced files as well and the home video versions.

Any lists yet for 1080 DVDs made from 4k digital intermediates (downconverted)? A few queries about titles last week at the software experts forum hasn't turned up anything. (Atop that linked page I cited an '03 article outlining some advantages of 4k downconversions.) -- John
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post #13 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 01:35 PM
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Hmmm... I'm going to have to ask the folks at the Contra Costa Cinemas if they actually may have DLP in some of the auditoriums. They are also owned by Cinewest and the theater was recently remodeled. Most if not all the other Cinewest theaters in the area are DLP.
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post #14 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

Even though most theaters still run film prints, more and more features are made through a "digital intermediate" process. This means the camera negative is scanned into computers and all color correction and editing is done electronically, not chemically or optically.

And is ruined by the guy running the projector! I saw Dreamgirls on Saturday and its DI was wasted on my eyes because the whole thing was far more blurry than a DVD. They must think that if it looks in focus in the projection room 200 feet from the screen, it must be in focus for the guy in the sixth row.

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post #15 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post

I saw Dreamgirls on Saturday and its DI was wasted on my eyes because the whole thing was far more blurry than a DVD.

The blurriness is caused by the theater.

Many theaters decide to move the projector light source away from the film or something like that. Whatever they do, it reduces the chances that the heat coming from the lightbulb will set fire to the film, causing a fire elsewhere, but as a tradeoff, the optimal focus on the film is lost, resulting in the blurriness. There's a financial benefit for the theaters in doing this, since it allows them to employ fewer projector operators, which simply move from theater to theater to check up on things.

So it's not the DI that hurts PQ like you described. It's actually another reason to upgrade to digital projectors. But that costs money...
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post #16 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by like.no.other. View Post

I give up. Stupid post, please delete.

Why is that a stupid post? According to DLP.com, near you, the following theater has a DLP projector and hence HD in cinema:

Kerasotes ShowPlace 16 - Rockford (5.99 miles)
8301 East State Street
Rockford, Illinois 61108

Check it out and if they are not showing movies in DLP (whose projectors are HD), get on their case.

We need the help of PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM TO GET HD IN OUR THEATERS. It doesn't help when avsforum regulars keep on saying their HT is better than commercial theaters, even though many of these people haven't seen movies in COMMERICAL DLP.

If you give commercial DLP a chance, you might like it. It is worth seeking out. If we can spread the word we can put more pressure on movie theater owners to put more in their theaters.

I live in the SF Bay Area, and I shouldn't have to drive 80 miles to the middle of nowhere Riverbank, CA to find a theater that has four DLP projectors (the closer ones have just one, and I still have to drive 20 miles to find a theater with one)
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post #17 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pappy97 View Post

Why is that a stupid post? According to DLP.com, near you, the following theater has a DLP projector and hence HD in cinema:

Kerasotes ShowPlace 16 - Rockford (5.99 miles)
8301 East State Street
Rockford, Illinois 61108

Check it out and if they are not showing movies in DLP (whose projectors are HD), get on their case.

We need the help of PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM TO GET HD IN OUR THEATERS. It doesn't help when avsforum regulars keep on saying their HT is better than commercial theaters, even though many of these people haven't seen movies in COMMERICAL DLP.

If you give commercial DLP a chance, you might like it. It is worth seeking out. If we can spread the word we can put more pressure on movie theater owners to put more in their theaters.

I live in the SF Bay Area, and I shouldn't have to drive 80 miles to the middle of nowhere Riverbank, CA to find a theater that has four DLP projectors (the closer ones have just one, and I still have to drive 20 miles to find a theater with one)

I've been to that theater but I don't know which one has the DLP projector. Last
time I went there was when I was watching Rocky. The picture was just pure ugly.
The film has a retarded aspect ratio. It is too tall than it is wide. It's out of focus
and the sound isn't good. My Pro-Logic IIx can pull a better sound from a 2
channel source. This theater is one of the small theaters. There is the main big
one but I haven't been in there yet. I just got to the small theaters.

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post #18 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 03:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

Digital Cinema is actually beyond HDTV. The current DCI spec is 2048x1080/24P. Yes 2048 is not much more than 1920 but the big difference is in color space,. Digital Cinema is 444 full bandwidth unlike current broadcast HDTV that is 422 and further compressed to 420 for ATSC broadcast. The new XYZ color space for digital cinema is often quoted "as able to produce colors only aliens can see" It's range is beyond human color perception. DCI compliant servers also utilize JPEG2000 compression, not MPEG2 and can run up to 270mbs.

I saw Star Wars - Sith at the Archlight Cinema in Hollywood which was one of around 10 or so 2k theaters around the country at the time - compared with around 75 of the lower res digital theaters.

The real negative to it as I saw it was the clarity as most of the CGI looking out windows or establishing shots seemed to have a haze around them compared to the stunning clarity of the foreground characters - making it look fake, imo.

In this respect I preferred the the lower res as everything integrated better so it did not stand out as being fake.

In time, no doubt the cgi will be able to match what is shown live and this will not be a factor.
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post #19 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 03:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by like.no.other. View Post

Last time I went there was when I was watching Rocky. The picture was just pure ugly. The film has a retarded aspect ratio. It is too tall than it is wide. It's out of focus and the sound isn't good. My Pro-Logic IIx can pull a better sound from a 2 channel source. This theater is one of the small theaters. There is the main big one but I haven't been in there yet. I just got to the small theaters.

I'll pretty much assure you that right now they are not going to put the digital cinema in the smaller theater compared to the main theater in a complex.
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post #20 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemikeb View Post

So it's not the DI that hurts PQ like you described. It's actually another reason to upgrade to digital projectors. But that costs money...

Which is what I was hinting at. Give the theaters fewer things to screw up. It's ridiculous to come home, turn on Saturday Night Live and see a sharper picture than the movie I just went to.

The bulb in their projector cost more than my HDTV!

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post #21 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 04:55 PM
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question,

Harkings Theatre opened the first `all digital' theatre here in OKC 3 years ago...does this only apply to audio since it's still obviously reel to reel film with all the imperfections showing up on the films.??
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post #22 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by like.no.other. View Post

I give up. Stupid post, please delete.

Maybe he meant delete his post
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post #23 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by like.no.other. View Post

Name one movie theater that support HD movies.

I can do better and name a movie theater that's all digital. The Galaxy Cannery Theatres in North Las Vegas has DLP projectors on all 16 of their screens.
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post #24 of 142 Old 02-19-2007, 09:19 PM
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Bostonb is lucky to have a handful of DLP screens one at each of four theatres only one being T accessable (I do not have a car)
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post #25 of 142 Old 02-20-2007, 03:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVFanAtic View Post

I saw Star Wars - Sith at the Archlight Cinema in Hollywood which was one of around 10 or so 2k theaters around the country at the time - compared with around 75 of the lower res digital theaters.

The real negative to it as I saw it was the clarity as most of the CGI looking out windows or establishing shots seemed to have a haze around them compared to the stunning clarity of the foreground characters - making it look fake, imo.

With both Episode II and III, the biggest problem with digital projection was the way it totally crushes blacks.

For example, in many dark scenes, when watching a film presentation of Episode III you could clearly make out details in hair and on the lava planet that were completely crushed to black when watching a digital presentation.

So yes, the digital presentation was clearer in many ways as images were presented without being converted to film, but the current digital projectors just aren't capable of reproducing the full range of images projected film can.

There are also other aesthetic preferences involved, which is why the producers of 24 still shoot on Kodak Motion Picture Film rather than with digital cameras.
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post #26 of 142 Old 02-20-2007, 01:26 PM
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If there is a problem with the film go to the lobby and ask them to fix it. In fact the nearby theater puts up a slide before the film starts stating to do just that. If you don't get results then complain to the company owning the theater. In some cases I've known people to get free passes for doing that.

I also remember a "mom and pop" took over a local theater and right after they did seeing a film where the framing on the projector was way off (like halfway). In that case we could all hear the girl from the lobby and got quite a chuckle hearing her say "I don't know how to do this!" It did get fixed, my relatives who were with me almost pushed me to go help since I know the technology but someone else came to the rescue. Anyway everyone got a laugh.

In another a corporate chain theater was showing a film and didn't have the mask on so we got to see the lighting and all kinds of things we weren't supposed to. In that case I went to the lobby and complained but it never got fixed. The kid in the lobby probably thought "another kooky customer who thinks the movie isn't framed right."
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post #27 of 142 Old 02-20-2007, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVFanAtic View Post

I'll pretty much assure you that right now they are not going to put the digital cinema in the smaller theater compared to the main theater in a complex.


You've never seen a DLP movie at the AMC theaters in Daly city, CA. I saw the last Harry Potter movie in a midnight showing there hoping the DLP would be in a main theater. Instead it was in one of the smallest in complex of 20.
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post #28 of 142 Old 02-20-2007, 01:40 PM
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The lack of interest in this thread shows the situation here. We already have cinemas in HD, and could have a lot more, but HD enthusiasts (Avsforum regulars) would rather stay at home THAN EVEN GIVE THIS A CHANCE (I have seen too many people here say that analog movie theaters suck, and when you mention DLP [which has pointed out earlier, is HD for this commercial purpose] they disappear).

It's sad, really. Here we have an opportunity to blow people away with huge screens full of HD goodness, but we can't even get most HD freaks to support the cause.
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post #29 of 142 Old 02-20-2007, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post

If there is a problem with the film go to the lobby and ask them to fix it.

I asked the usher guy walking around the theater carrying a flashlight if he thought that picture was in focus. He said it looked fine to him.

The only employees in the lobby were two people at the concessions. Since this was the last show, even the box office and the ticket takers were gone. I probably would have missed ten or fifteen minutes of the movie trying to find someone.

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post #30 of 142 Old 02-20-2007, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pappy97 View Post

The lack of interest in this thread shows the situation here. We already have cinemas in HD, and could have a lot more, but HD enthusiasts (Avsforum regulars) would rather stay at home THAN EVEN GIVE THIS A CHANCE (I have seen too many people here say that analog movie theaters suck, and when you mention DLP [which has pointed out earlier, is HD for this commercial purpose] they disappear).

It's sad, really. Here we have an opportunity to blow people away with huge screens full of HD goodness, but we can't even get most HD freaks to support the cause.

I think it's a matter of "too little - too late". Commercial theaters have essentially waited for home theaters to errode their business model too badly to really recover.

With ever-increasing image and sound quality, cheap refreshments, no need for a babysitter and a lack of rude people with cell phones, people have gotten used to the idea of just staying home. Now, with HD disc formats making their way into people's homes, there's less reason to go out.

For too long, the movie theater experience has been less than stellar and the home theater experience had plenty of time to take hold.

Now the theaters are scrambling to get people back in any way they can. Well, I'm not buying in. You lost me years ago. I tried the digital cinema recently, and despite a better picture, I found rude people and simple things like the lights being cranked on as soon as the end credits hit as annoying as before. Trying to watch a post-credits bonus scene while theater staff is clunking brooms around was considerably less than pleasurable.

Sorry, but digital isn't enough to help the commercial theater experience for me.
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