The Sopranos on HBO HD - The Back 9 - March 2012 Update - The cast speaks out. - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 1675 Old 04-30-2007, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dannynoonan View Post


These guys need respect and reputation to climb the ranks.

AJ killing Phil, and being the son of Tony and grandson of Johnny Boy is a pretty good start.

agreed. I'm not saying that's how it will end up, but I can certainly see it as a possibility. Again, I'm not talking about AJ becoming boss( that simply wouldn't fly in 5 weeks) I'm simply talking about him becoming "harder" and getting pulled into the family lifestyle. That's why his girl is dumping him and it could be enough to push him over. One "hit" and he would gain instant credibility with the team...remember how they treated him at the hospital when they found out he was wanting a gun to kill Junior? There was a certain "proudness" and "you're hearts in the right place" comments from Chris and Bobby to him.

Like I said, they could make that transformation in 5 episodes if he chose to go that route.
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post #272 of 1675 Old 04-30-2007, 01:37 PM
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So after six plus seasons with this show, and countless plot leads, I finally realized that this show does not have a direction. This is not a movie where there is a plot and things are tied up in the end.

How many times have there been discussions about hanging plots, and unresolved situations. Too many to count.

But I realized this show is about small snapshots of their lives. How each individual deals with certain circumstances, and the different aspects of their mob life styles. But most of the situations are not connected, and I don't think they will be in the next 5 episodes

There will be no big ending. I bet there won't even FBI pressure on Tony, besides a casual reference. Lately, it was just introduced with the gun charge so they could take the trip down to Florida, which was only about dealing with his relationship with Paulie. I was even surprised they actually mentioned the power tools last episode.

The final show is going to make a lot of people scratch their heads, while it will make a lot of people angry. But I don't even think they will bring up Bobby's kill, it was just used as an instrument of the levels of his relationship with Tony and his family.

Hey, I would be happy if it was all action from here out, but it won't be.........


Or I could be completely wrong.
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post #273 of 1675 Old 04-30-2007, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by bpade View Post

Tony got the money from his offshore accounts. It was mentioned in the episode. I guess he was hoping he wouldn't have to touch that money. That's his nest egg that protects Carmella, I guess.

Nah I think Carmella gave it to him from the spec house profit. Somehow she got over that outrageous comment he made about the house, sat down on the bed, and next we see Tony bringing the cash. Thought it was kind of poorly written, actually. Liked what they were trying to say, but it's definately out of steam these days.

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post #274 of 1675 Old 04-30-2007, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by gtaylor0 View Post

Nah I think Carmella gave it to him from the spec house profit. Somehow she got over that outrageous comment he made about the house, sat down on the bed, and next we see Tony bringing the cash. Thought it was kind of poorly written, actually. Liked what they were trying to say, but it's definately out of steam these days.

If Carmella had given him the money, they would have made it clear. He got the money from his offshore accounts.
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post #275 of 1675 Old 04-30-2007, 03:58 PM
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Maybe the worst episode ever, although the going back to Italy episode was pretty bad. Maybe they should change the shows name from the Sopranos to WTF.

It's not that Tony couldn't have a gambling problem or that he couldn't have money problems, it's just that there was no set up for it. It would have been no more of a stretch to have him get addicted to heroin. The roulette scene was particularly cringe inducing for me.

Let the farewell tour continue, clearly the major players can't wait to move on.

The films of De Sica, of Welles, of Michael Powell and Emeric Pressburger made little money and endure as spiritual delights.
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post #276 of 1675 Old 04-30-2007, 04:15 PM
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I hate to be cynical, but this season's starting to remind me of the first part of the sixth season. The first two episodes were, like before, excellent! But then it's gone seriously downhill. Maybe that's the point, that it has gone downhill for the Soprano family. Still, I agree with others that the show doesn't seem to have any direction at the moment: Gambling? AJ wanting to marry? Vito Jr? Who cares! Chase already has a ton of plots and the momentum of the show is simply derailed by these subplots, which isn't good since these are the last episodes of the show.

By the way, did anyone find the whole Vito Jr shower scene needlessly extraneous and disturbing? I definitely did not need to see that on a Sunday night ... in glorious HD to boot.

I'm hoping that the show perks up next week.
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post #277 of 1675 Old 04-30-2007, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by spwace View Post

If Carmella had given him the money, they would have made it clear. He got the money from his offshore accounts.

Hmm well it was never clear that Tony had a gambling problem. In fact nothing is much clear in the show lately. I still say she ponyed up.

Greg
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post #278 of 1675 Old 04-30-2007, 04:27 PM
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The money came from Carmella. It was set up with the discussion between Tony and Carmella where he all but admits that he has a problem... Of course she gave him the $$.
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post #279 of 1675 Old 04-30-2007, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by gtaylor0 View Post

Hmm well it was never clear that Tony had a gambling problem. In fact nothing is much clear in the show lately. I still say she ponyed up.

Based on what? There was no evidence presented to indicate that she gave him the money.

Tony always gambled, but it didn't get out of control until this episode.
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post #280 of 1675 Old 04-30-2007, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDJR View Post

The money came from Carmella. It was set up with the discussion between Tony and Carmella where he all but admits that he has a problem... Of course she gave him the $$.

That's what my wife thinks. She may be right. If so,....

....in exchange for bailing Tony out, Carmella has now literally bought her way into Tony's life to a degree that she didn't realize. She's always had this Don't Ask Don't Tell attitude about Tony.

But after this....
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post #281 of 1675 Old 04-30-2007, 05:38 PM
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I believe that Tony is going to help the gov'mt with some information about terrorists.
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post #282 of 1675 Old 04-30-2007, 06:49 PM
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whats the reason behind AJ"s girl friend giving him the heave ho? Did Tony have anything to do with it? Good episode, best yet of the last 4..

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post #283 of 1675 Old 04-30-2007, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by taxman48 View Post

whats the reason behind AJ"s girl friend giving him the heave ho? Did Tony have anything to do with it? Good episode, best yet of the last 4..

The same reason Finn bailed on Meadow. This family scares people off.
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post #284 of 1675 Old 04-30-2007, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by spwace View Post

The same reason Finn bailed on Meadow. This family scares people off.


I disagree...I think she gave him the heave-ho because he wasn't enough like his father. She expected a "mob" guy and got a pizza man. There have been several little hints as to her displeasure around this such as during the "Cleaver" movie, they mention the "strong" type, and there is a cut to AJ's girlfriend who gives AJ a look like "yea, why aren't you like that"
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post #285 of 1675 Old 04-30-2007, 07:58 PM
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Anyone else notice the wierd camera cuts last night? Just seemed like a completely new director...the angles and camera work panning between characters at the table for instance...it was very noticable...almost reminded me of Friday Night Lights camerawork.
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post #286 of 1675 Old 05-01-2007, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by dgotwals1 View Post

So after six plus seasons with this show, and countless plot leads, I finally realized that this show does not have a direction.

Actually, a good analysis of a majority of the show's characters.

It's hard to believe that the writers of this series (arguably the best in TV history) simply "ran out of ideas" -especially after a two year hiatus. I think the criticized "lull" effect is intended. Didn't Chase once say the lifestyles of these characters weren't to be glorified? Degenerate lifestyles moving towards a predictable end.
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post #287 of 1675 Old 05-01-2007, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by spwace View Post

Based on what? There was no evidence presented to indicate that she gave him the money.

Tony always gambled, but it didn't get out of control until this episode.

Well unlike most TV shows the creators don't spell everything out for you. The evidence is there if you believe she did - or not. Based on the bedroom set up - admitting the gambling issue, the fact that she "stole" $40K, his "cut" of the proceeds -I think she bailed him out. Afterall, it's her "lifestyle" she's protecting - and paying for - too.

Greg
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post #288 of 1675 Old 05-01-2007, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Maltby View Post

It's not that Tony couldn't have a gambling problem or that he couldn't have money problems, it's just that there was no set up for it.

Please. Tons of things have happened on this show without a setup, and when they're action pieces, people love them. (Tony getting shot by Junior, Janice whacking Richie, Tony whacking Ralphie, Adriana's fateful drive into the forest with Silvio, Dr. Melfi's rape, and so on.)

As far as the money goes, didn't we hear Tony calling someone saying he needed to liquidate some offshore investments?
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post #289 of 1675 Old 05-01-2007, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post

Please. Tons of things have happened on this show without a setup, and when they're action pieces, people love them. (Tony getting shot by Junior, Janice whacking Richie, Tony whacking Ralphie, Adriana's fateful drive into the forest with Silvio, Dr. Melfi's rape, and so on.)

As far as the money goes, didn't we hear Tony calling someone saying he needed to liquidate some offshore investments?

Yes, and he blew half of it gambling. We're speculating on where he got the $100,000 to replace what he lost. He most likely either got another $100,000 from the offshore accounts, or he got it from Carmella.

I think he got more from the offshore accounts, but there was nothing in the episode to tell the viewer. Maybe we'll find out next Sunday.

Atlas just shrugged!
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post #290 of 1675 Old 05-01-2007, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by bbodin View Post

Anyone else notice the wierd camera cuts last night? Just seemed like a completely new director...the angles and camera work panning between characters at the table for instance...it was very noticable...almost reminded me of Friday Night Lights camerawork.

It was the 19th episode directed by Tim Van Patten.
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post #291 of 1675 Old 05-01-2007, 07:24 AM
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I'm pretty convinced that Carm came up with it, assuming that it was the full $200K he owed Hesh. Tony already blew through the 100K trying to double it up to move the widow up to Maine. Which turned into 18K to send the kid away the minute his bet went bad.

No doubt Sil and others have taken notice of this sudden cash drain -- past the point of "keeping his image up" -- and Tony needs a source not directly traceable by the business family.

For all her whining about the family's financial security -- especially after his hospital stay -- Carmella's number one concern now is Tony's survival.
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post #292 of 1675 Old 05-01-2007, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by PrimeTime View Post

I'm pretty convinced that Carm came up with it, assuming that it was the full $200K he owed Hesh. Tony already blew through the 100K trying to double it up to move the widow up to Maine. Which turned into 18K to send the kid away the minute his bet went bad.

No doubt Sil and others have taken notice of this sudden cash drain -- past the point of "keeping his image up" -- and Tony needs a source not directly traceable by the business family.

For all her whining about the family's financial security -- especially after his hospital stay -- Carmella's number one concern now is Tony's survival.

This show doesn't leave the viewer guessing about what did or did not happen. We don't have to guess if Vito Jr. crapped in the shower. They showed it. We don't have to guess when Chris is or is not using drugs. They show us. If Carm had given Tony the money, they would have shown it. It serves no purpose to keep the viewer guessing about such a key plot point.
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post #293 of 1675 Old 05-01-2007, 09:08 AM
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I really don't care if Tony has a gambling problem. I just hope the storyline ties into the ending. If not it was a wasted episode. No need for more storyline just wrap up the old ones.

As for the money. It looked like when Tony was driving through the Jewish neighborhood he was looking to case the place. He made a few anti-Semitic comments towards Hesh and what better way to pay him back but to steal from other Jews.

Check out Dinger's
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post #294 of 1675 Old 05-01-2007, 09:37 AM
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If Carm had given Tony the money, they would have shown it. It serves no purpose to keep the viewer guessing about such a key plot point.

I completely agree. I did not think the money came from her. It came from the offshore accounts. The reason for her being involved at all, was to show that the are hurting for cash.


I do think this was an important episode for the overall story.

It shows that the business is not doing well.

Hesch talked about this as well. About how bad those Italians are with their money. All the while Tony is trying to keep up appearances and chase wagers at the same time.

Good financial strategy there!

There are sebveral themes in this last season. But one major one seems to be that these guys are not very intelligent. They live an "all or nothing" lifestyle.

And the Soprano family is spiralling towards nothing.
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post #295 of 1675 Old 05-01-2007, 10:01 AM
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I don't get it sometimes. Out of the blue Tony has a gambling problem? WTF? I admire the writers and they keep us on our toes, but my goodness you would think there would be some minimum continuity here. Like another poster said, these episodes are getting almost goofy. AJ bragging that he is the night manager at a pizza? What has he been smoking? OK, here is my wish list for the rest of the season:

Tony whacks Phil, cause he is an ahole.
Meadow does several more scenes in underwear, I loved those tap pants
Christopher takes his wife and baby to live in Hollywood to produce B horror movies starring Eric Estrada and Paris Hilton
Bobby gets electrocuted in the garage while playing with his trains
Junior corners the bag market in the nursing home and becomes the sole supplier of Depends
Silvo smiles and cracks his face, needs plastic surgery to close the wounds
Vito's ex lover comes looking for him, falls in love with Vito's wife, turns hetero and marries her and becomes step father to son, who stops crapping in the shower
Tony wacks Phil's crew, who are all aholes just like Phil
Tony goes into witness protection, rats out the rest of the families, and moves to Prescott where he and Carm open a combination florist/ice cream shop. Carm works all day long and Tony eats ice cream while watching TV

Fade to black (interrupted with a trailer of "Cleaver 2, the Beaver Gets His Revenge"
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post #296 of 1675 Old 05-01-2007, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Tarheel72 View Post

I don't get it sometimes. Out of the blue Tony has a gambling problem? WTF? I admire the writers and they keep us on our toes, but my goodness you would think there would be some minimum continuity here. Like another poster said, these episodes are getting almost goofy. AJ bragging that he is the night manager at a pizza? What has he been smoking? OK, here is my wish list for the rest of the season:

Tony whacks Phil, cause he is an ahole.
Meadow does several more scenes in underwear, I loved those tap pants
Christopher takes his wife and baby to live in Hollywood to produce B horror movies starring Eric Estrada and Paris Hilton
Bobby gets electrocuted in the garage while playing with his trains
Junior corners the bag market in the nursing home and becomes the sole supplier of Depends
Silvo smiles and cracks his face, needs plastic surgery to close the wounds
Vito's ex lover comes looking for him, falls in love with Vito's wife, turns hetero and marries her and becomes step father to son, who stops crapping in the shower
Tony wacks Phil's crew, who are all aholes just like Phil
Tony goes into witness protection, rats out the rest of the families, and moves to Prescott where he and Carm open a combination florist/ice cream shop. Carm works all day long and Tony eats ice cream while watching TV

Fade to black (interrupted with a trailer of "Cleaver 2, the Beaver Gets His Revenge"

There's one storyline that you didn't wrap up, however. What happens with the Russian?
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post #297 of 1675 Old 05-01-2007, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by bpade View Post

Yes, and he blew half of it gambling. We're speculating on where he got the $100,000 to replace what he lost. He most likely either got another $100,000 from the offshore accounts, or he got it from Carmella.

I think he got more from the offshore accounts, but there was nothing in the episode to tell the viewer. Maybe we'll find out next Sunday.

I think we might find out next week as well about where the money came from and if I were to guess, I'd go with he stole the money from Carmela.
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post #298 of 1675 Old 05-01-2007, 10:58 AM
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I don't get it sometimes. Out of the blue Tony has a gambling problem? WTF?

Tony has always gambled. It is becoming more of a problem now because the family is suffering financially and Tony is getting a bit desperate. It's really pretty simple.

As for as people having a problem with Tony having a gambling problem after all his comments about "degenerates"......Ever hear of a little thing called denial??

The show is CLEARLY headed in a direction, while at the same time showing "snapshots" of the devastating effects of the mob lifestyle (like it ALLWAYS has!!!!).

Is the Sopranos as good and fresh as it was the first few seasons?..no
Is is still incredibly high quality television?....hell yes

It's very possible Vito's homosexuality (coupled with the lack of acceptance in the families) is going to lead to the downfall of the the Soprano family. His death is a key source of the tension between Tony and Phil. Also Tony's top earner is gone and it is clearly having an effect.

Those of you who are expecting all "loose ends" to be tied up and going to be extremely dissapointed. My advice is to stop watching now .
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post #299 of 1675 Old 05-01-2007, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post

Please. Tons of things have happened on this show without a setup, and when they're action pieces, people love them. (Tony getting shot by Junior, Janice whacking Richie, Tony whacking Ralphie, Adriana's fateful drive into the forest with Silvio, Dr. Melfi's rape, and so on.)

As far as the money goes, didn't we hear Tony calling someone saying he needed to liquidate some offshore investments?

Your examples are plot surprises, but they aren't a stretch for the characters involved. When Junior shoots Tony, you don't suddenly find out Junior has been having health problems and may be proned to erratic behavior. When Tony wacks Ralphie, you don't say to yourself, "who knew Tony was such a violent and impulsive person."

Tony is the character we know best. We have been in his head, seen what he has dreamed, heard his confessions to his therapist. So its jarring/lame after a two year hiatus to be told in the fourth episode,without any previous hints, "Oh yeah, his business is tanking and he has taken to gambling to try to make up the difference. And, oh yeah, while he is out gambling and losing to make up for the shortfall, he's suddenly not the kind of guy to put any pressure on his subordinates to get out an hustle up some more money. "

Maybe it will be Artie Bucco or Meadow's turn for an episode next week where it will be all cleared up. Maybe Tony burns down Arties restaurant again for a split of the insurance money, or Meadow starts turning tricks to cover her dads gambling debts.

The films of De Sica, of Welles, of Michael Powell and Emeric Pressburger made little money and endure as spiritual delights.
--David Mamet
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post #300 of 1675 Old 05-01-2007, 03:59 PM
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Tony is the character we know best. We have been in his head, seen what he has dreamed, heard his confessions to his therapist. So its jarring/lame after a two year hiatus to be told in the fourth episode,without any previous hints, "Oh yeah, his business is tanking and he has taken to gambling to try to make up the difference. And, oh yeah, while he is out gambling and losing to make up for the shortfall, he's suddenly not the kind of guy to put any pressure on his subordinates to get out an hustle up some more money. "

jarring/lame?????

suddenly?

previous hints?????

VITO WAS HIS TOP EARNER!!!!!!! Ralphie brought in the $ as well. Christopher cares less and less about the business. Paulie is an idiot. Bobby has not got his shot.

How many episodes were dedicated to the effect almost dying had on Tony's outlook????? It is CRYTSTAL clear he has lost his "edge" and his heart is not in being the boss anymore.

Ladies and Gentleman: If you have not figured it out yet, The Sopranos is NOT The Godfater, Scarface, Goodfellas, Casino, or Carlito's Way (even though it "borrows" ). It is more "artistic" than those films. It is also more "personal" and "real". Please pay attention and stop complaining or stop watching .
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