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post #181 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by nhlfan79 View Post

I sent a link to this thread to my coworker (I swear, there really is a coworker!), and he says the numbers are what controls the electromagnetic field. The visionary thing is simply one of the new potential abilities that a Lostie can pick up during the regeneration process. Same goes for the unique ability to "conjure" other things, i.e., Jack seeing his dad, Sawyer's horse, Shannon and Sayid seeing Walt, Locke seeing his dad, etc.

How do the numbers control it, if the power has always been there? It doesn't seem to make a difference to their regenerative abilities whether someone is pushing the buttons or not. When they crashed it was apparently under Desmond's control, now it isn't.

Plus it doesn't explain the constant appearance of the numbers in the outside world.

I think the regenerative properties of the island are just that. Increased healing ability. Everything else I put down to the influence and technology of Dharma.


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post #182 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 09:28 AM
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I don't think anything happened when eye-patch went through it; he probably faked it. Not sure how yet, but I imagine if he sticks around he'll probably have a flashback episode next season.

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post #183 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by FlikkyDVD View Post

I don't think anything happened when eye-patch went through it; he probably faked it. Not sure how yet, but I imagine if he sticks around he'll probably have a flashback episode next season.

I don't know how he would fake blood spontaneously coming from his ear drums!

Either way the fence still does something unpleasant, otherwise Juliet wouldn't have panicked when she was faced with it.


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post #184 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 09:43 AM
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This talk of reincarnation, etc. made me think of an old epsiode of Star Trek: DS9. In the episode, the crew of the Defiant crash land on an uncharted planet, surrounded by a strange energy field. At the end of the episode, they do some stuff as they are escaping the field that allows them to pass out of the planet's atmosphere, but at the same time an exact copy of them is created and deflected back towards the planet's surface to crash. This was done to save some future timeline on the planet. I can't remember the title of the episode, but I can probably find it if anyone needs more details.

Maybe the island is like an inverted version of that planet. The plane impacted the energy field, creating a copy that "bounced" off and crashed elsewhere, killing everyone onboard. Meanwhile, the "original" crash landed on the island with many people surviving. This energy field could also be the cause of the regenerative properties. Everyone knows that in science fiction and comic books, radiation can do everything. The energy field doesn't extend below the surface of the water, enabling the sub to travel in and out without a problem. This solves the "reincarnation" idea without resorting to magic.
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post #185 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

How do the numbers control it, if the power has always been there? It doesn't seem to make a difference to their regenerative abilities whether someone is pushing the buttons or not. When they crashed it was apparently under Desmond's control, now it isn't.

Plus it doesn't explain the constant appearance of the numbers in the outside world.

I think the regenerative properties of the island are just that. Increased healing ability. Everything else I put down to the influence and technology of Dharma.

Well, this brings me to the nature of the numbers themselves, and a question that I have had for a long, long time, relating to the flashbacks. We know on the island the numbers meant something. Off the island, they only meant something to Hurley, it seems. Since the hatch exploded, the incidence of "number spotting" in flashbacks have gone to nearly zero (the only one I have caught this season were the "108" cases of wine Desmond was shipping.)

Which leads me to the flashbacks. Are we to assume that the flashbacks are what has really happened in the past, or what the Losties remember happening in the past? These are two very different things. If it truly is what the Lostie is "remembering", then the numbers can have a very easily-explained reason for being present--because they are somehow "implanted" into the memories of the Losties, so when they do "flashback", they are everywhere. Hurley is susceptible to mental illness--perhaps he is more susceptible the numbers' influence on the island, and they permeate his flashbacks.

But you may say--c'mon, Hurley's flashbacks have been very specific about the numbers, and they are the reason he was in Australia to begin with. Well, we know Hurley has difficulty, at times, separating reality from fiction (Dave)--perhaps all or most or even some of his flashbacks are not true, as he remembers them?

Oh, and one point about resurrection. Although I don't completely agree that this is what is going on on the island, you can certainly have resurrection as part of science fiction with being completely beholden to the mystical--two examples, the new Battlestar Galactica, and has anyone read the "Riverworld" series by Philip Jose Farmer?

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post #186 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Scherrer View Post

But you may say--c'mon, Hurley's flashbacks have been very specific about the numbers, and they are the reason he was in Australia to begin with. Well, we know Hurley has difficulty, at times, separating reality from fiction (Dave)--perhaps all or most or even some of his flashbacks are not true, as he remembers them?

The numbers brought Hurley his millions via the lottery, and that seemed to happen in the "real world". And then, we saw him winning the lottery on Korean TV in a Jin/Sun flashback. So, that event did seem to transcend Hurley's possible psychosis. There are probably other examples of "cross-flashbacks" involving the numbers, but that's the first one to come to me off the top of my head.

I'm just wondering if there's not a more pedestrian reason for the lack of numbers-sightings this season... Perhaps the writers just really weren't able to come up with a good explanation that jives with everything else while compiling their "Unified Island Mystery Theory". They had a lot of fun with the numbers the first couple of seasons, but they realized they kind of wrote themselves into a corner with them, and now they're just trying to distance the show from them.
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post #187 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Scherrer View Post

Which leads me to the flashbacks. Are we to assume that the flashbacks are what has really happened in the past, or what the Losties remember happening in the past? These are two very different things. If it truly is what the Lostie is "remembering", then the numbers can have a very easily-explained reason for being present--because they are somehow "implanted" into the memories of the Losties, so when they do "flashback", they are everywhere. Hurley is susceptible to mental illness--perhaps he is more susceptible the numbers' influence on the island, and they permeate his flashbacks.

But you may say--c'mon, Hurley's flashbacks have been very specific about the numbers, and they are the reason he was in Australia to begin with. Well, we know Hurley has difficulty, at times, separating reality from fiction (Dave)--perhaps all or most or even some of his flashbacks are not true, as he remembers them?

Oh good grief, now that's got me thinking that most of them didn't actually crash there. They were all the original Dharma scientists who got mind wiped and reprogrammed in The Others' Room 101 and dumped on the beach in a fake crash scene or what was left of the original crash.


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post #188 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

I'm just wondering if there's not a more pedestrian reason for the lack of numbers-sightings this season... Perhaps the writers just really weren't able to come up with a good explanation that jives with everything else while compiling their "Unified Island Mystery Theory". They had a lot of fun with the numbers the first couple of seasons, but they realized they kind of wrote themselves into a corner with them, and now they're just trying to distance the show from them.

That gets my vote as well.


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post #189 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

The numbers brought Hurley his millions via the lottery, and that seemed to happen in the "real world". And then, we saw him winning the lottery on Korean TV in a Jin/Sun flashback. So, that event did seem to transcend Hurley's possible psychosis. There are probably other examples of "cross-flashbacks" involving the numbers, but that's the first one to come to me off the top of my head.

I'm just wondering if there's not a more pedestrian reason for the lack of numbers-sightings this season... Perhaps the writers just really weren't able to come up with a good explanation that jives with everything else while compiling their "Unified Island Mystery Theory". They had a lot of fun with the numbers the first couple of seasons, but they realized they kind of wrote themselves into a corner with them, and now they're just trying to distance the show from them.

Oh, I agree, the lack of numbers may certainly be that the writers simply wrote them out.

Hurley may have indeed won the lottery, which was cross-referenced on tv sets in Korea. But that doesn't mean he actually used the numbers to do it...

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post #190 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Scherrer View Post

Oh, I agree, the lack of numbers may certainly be that the writers simply wrote them out.

Hurley may have indeed won the lottery, which was cross-referenced on tv sets in Korea. But that doesn't mean he actually used the numbers to do it...

Yes he did. We saw his winning ticket, saw the numbers.
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post #191 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 10:38 AM
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Is there a reason Sun couldn't have an abortion to save herself? I don't remember this being discussed.

Also, isn't it likely that the parachute chick is NOT Penny's minion? If Penny thought everyone was dead she wouldn't launch a rescue mission.
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post #192 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Schauer View Post

Is there a reason Sun couldn't have an abortion to save herself? I don't remember this being discussed.

Also, isn't it likely that the parachute chick is NOT Penny's minion? If Penny thought everyone was dead she wouldn't launch a rescue mission.

at the end of last season didn't they show penny getting a rescue going for desmond?

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post #193 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 10:45 AM
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I thought it was obvious that eye-patch dude faked it and the fence wasn't even on. The reason is that in the next episode when Juliet and Kate approach the fence it is not even turned on and Juliet has to turn it on. Sure, maybe sections can be turned on and off but I thought they used this to show us that eye-patch didn't die because the fence wasn't even on.

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post #194 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Yes he did. We saw his winning ticket, saw the numbers.

But if we are seeing what Hurley remembers (not reality), than of course we would see the winning numbers.

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post #195 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

I thought it was obvious that eye-patch dude faked it and the fence wasn't even on. The reason is that in the next episode when Juliet and Kate approach the fence it is not even turned on and Juliet has to turn it on. Sure, maybe sections can be turned on and off but I thought they used this to show us that eye-patch didn't die because the fence wasn't even on.

How did he fake the sonic sound (redundant?) the fence made when he went to stand in the middle of it?

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post #196 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Schauer View Post

Is there a reason Sun couldn't have an abortion to save herself? I don't remember this being discussed.

Also, isn't it likely that the parachute chick is NOT Penny's minion? If Penny thought everyone was dead she wouldn't launch a rescue mission.

Penny is looking for Desmond, who wasn't on the plane. She probably doesn't have any reason to connect 815 and Desmond's sailboat.
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post #197 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 10:51 AM
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Penny is looking for Desmond, who wasn't on the plane. She probably doesn't have any reason to connect 815 and Desmond's sailboat.

D'oh!
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post #198 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Schauer View Post

Is there a reason Sun couldn't have an abortion to save herself? I don't remember this being discussed.

My wife and I were also wondering about that. They haven't yet explained exactly why these women are dying. Presumably an abortion won't save them, as Juliet said that was where they took them to die. Unless the Others have some sort of religious opposition to abortion, it seems that this would have been tried.

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post #199 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Scherrer View Post

How did he fake the sonic sound (redundant?) the fence made when he went to stand in the middle of it?

Maybe he hummed it really loudly, then somehow got an alka-seltzer in his mouth and squibs in his ears while the losties were distracted.
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post #200 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by rezzy View Post


We knew the island has healing virtues, but resurrection properties? Maybe the producers have watched too many Heroes episodes. Then I guess none of the Others are really dead. : rollseyes : There.

.

So the two buried on the beach may be down there alive?
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post #201 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

I thought it was obvious that eye-patch dude faked it and the fence wasn't even on. The reason is that in the next episode when Juliet and Kate approach the fence it is not even turned on and Juliet has to turn it on. Sure, maybe sections can be turned on and off but I thought they used this to show us that eye-patch didn't die because the fence wasn't even on.

it wasn't turned on because they had all left camp. And from the looks of it they only have the access panel on the inside.


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post #202 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 11:16 AM
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Maybe he hummed it really loudly, then somehow got an alka-seltzer in his mouth and squibs in his ears while the losties were distracted.


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post #203 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 11:26 AM
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No one has yet mentioned this episode's biggest surprise revelation:

The Losties actually talked to one another!

Kate and Sayid told Charlie about the Russian guy. They didn't just keep that secret to themselves.

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post #204 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Interesting, but the "magical" reincarnation part is where it breaks down for me. That's so far out of the "scientific" mainstream, and the producers have stated that the answers to the show's mysteries are at least grounded in plausible science. It would be a total copout to have everything explained by magic, or some mystical force that has no basis in the natural world.

Now, that said, rips in the space-time continuum, wormholes, etc. are pretty far-fetched as well, but at least they're grounded in speculative science and possible "natural" phenomena. Reincarnation or instant full-grown cloning, not so much.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

"The island has healing powers" - magic mumbo jumbo

"There is a quantum energy flux leaking out of the wormhole, which regenerates tissue as a byproduct" - science mumbo jumbo

No difference really. The producers lie. There have already been more than enough plot points which are unexplainable with any real world basis.
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post #205 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

I'm just wondering if there's not a more pedestrian reason for the lack of numbers-sightings this season... Perhaps the writers just really weren't able to come up with a good explanation that jives with everything else while compiling their "Unified Island Mystery Theory". They had a lot of fun with the numbers the first couple of seasons, but they realized they kind of wrote themselves into a corner with them, and now they're just trying to distance the show from them.

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That gets my vote as well.

Mine as well. There's no reason the numbers should have simply stopped appearing in the past events of the real world just because they are no longer needed on the island. The only explantation really seems to be the writers simply aren't including them anymore.

It's sad, too, since that was one of the fun things to watch for in the flashbacks, including:

- Appearances by other characters
- Sightings of Oceanic planes
- Various organizations besides Dharma

Maybe one of those lottery losers is trying to sue them and they are prohibitted from using them pending the outcome...
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post #206 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Scherrer View Post

Oh, I agree, the lack of numbers may certainly be that the writers simply wrote them out.

Hurley may have indeed won the lottery, which was cross-referenced on tv sets in Korea. But that doesn't mean he actually used the numbers to do it...

Did anyone get a chance to spot out the combination of the safe Sun's father opened to get the $100K? I was thinking he used some of the numbers, but couldn't say for sure. I know they only showed a bit of him entering numebrs, and then the camera cut away before he finished. Haven't seen anyone make mention of the safe yet.

(BTW, I'm asking because I don't know!)
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post #207 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Mine as well. There's no reason the numbers should have simply stopped appearing in the past events of the real world just because they are no longer needed on the island. The only explantation really seems to be the writers simply aren't including them anymore.

It's sad, too, since that was one of the fun things to watch for in the flashbacks, including:

- Appearances by other characters
- Sightings of Oceanic planes
- Various organizations besides Dharma

Maybe one of those lottery losers is trying to sue them and they are prohibitted from using them pending the outcome...

OR--their influence on the Losties, specifically Hurley, is gone since the hatch blew, and they no longer "remember" them in their flashbacks.

This whole debate reminds me of the point last season when Hurley dreamt he could speak Korean. He couldn't really speak Korean, he only dreamt he could speak Korean (much like people can't actually fly in dreams). in the same way, his flashbacks used to be influenced by the magnetic buildup that the hatch was containing, thereby causing him to remember the numbers in flashbacks, when they weren't really there.

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post #208 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 12:46 PM
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I'll be a little annoyed if it turns out that all of the flashbacks are just a product of the island and not really true. For me, that would be just one step above the last episode having Jack wake up and realize it was all a dream.

After three seasons, it would just seem like a major cop-out to say that all of the character-defining flashbacks, which Lost seems to pride itself on, are really just manifestations of the island.
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post #209 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Scherrer View Post

OR--their influence on the Losties, specifically Hurley, is gone since the hatch blew, and they no longer "remember" them in their flashbacks.

didn't Hurley already have a numbers related flashback about his curse this season in which the fortune teller spoke the numbers?


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post #210 of 21026 Old 04-26-2007, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Gmichael2 View Post

So the two buried on the beach may be down there alive?

I think archiguy said it best. Once you're dead, you're dead. But major injuries can be overcome, thanks to the island. It's funny though; people were complaining that Mikhail could be seen breathing after the sonic-blast. Obviously he didn't die afterall, but no one administered a nail in the coffin blow (just to be sure) either.

I'm with Charlie; they should've killed him dead. Sayid would've wiped him out without blinking. Screw Desmond and his crazy-karma.



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didn't Hurley already have a numbers related flashback about his curse this season in which the fortune teller spoke the numbers?

I think she did, but she was rehashing old news (faking).

"I knew you'd say that"...*BLAM!*
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