HBO pushing to turn off your component connection - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 53 Old 05-11-2007, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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HBO worried about HDTV on demand
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post #2 of 53 Old 05-11-2007, 06:19 PM
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I assume they will have a solution for my older 65 "RPTV which does not have any HDMI inputs, only component......as long as they will pay for me to replace that set with a newer version at their expense I have no problem with that change.

John M
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post #3 of 53 Old 05-11-2007, 06:31 PM
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If people are breaking the law and selling copies of HBO shows I can see why HBO would be upset. Go after those pirates and charge them to the full extent of the law. I just don't understand why HBO is so hell bent on screwing over all of there paying customers who just want to make backups. If I want to make a copy, I should be able to. I have given HBO a great deal of money over the years. As far as recording HDTV over the component connection I have yet to hear of anything that can do this. 5c and other forms of protection on this so called "premium" content only hurts the average viewer who wants to make legitimate backups. The pirates will find a way no matter what protection HBO uses. All of this "protection" has done is cause people like myself to do things in the grey area. Suddenly I am downloading shows/movies from torrent sites and the newsgroups. It has also alienated me to the point were I am seriously considering cancelling all of my service and just downloading everything I want.

People stopped watching because it sucked ass. Not because they didnt know the show was on. Now they are no longer watching the shows they liked because you constantly promote other crap.
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post #4 of 53 Old 05-11-2007, 08:45 PM
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TheRock...

I agree.

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post #5 of 53 Old 05-12-2007, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by TheRock View Post

Go after those pirates and charge them to the full extent of the law. I just don't understand why HBO is so hell bent on screwing over all of there paying customers who just want to make backups.

All of this DRM or "Digital Consumer Enablement" (did that make anyone else laugh until it hurt?) as Zitter wants to call it, has nothing to do with piracy. It has to do with control.

Picture it this way- without DRM you can go get a HTPC and keep adding hard drives, record to your heart's content, broadcast to be viewed on other TVs in your house, re-rip to view on your iPod, and archive seasons of say Entourage to view again and again (i.e.- exercise fair use).

What does HBO and the rest of the entertainment industry want to force? They want to force you to buy HBO to watch it live, pay your cable company for multiple DVRs if you want to see it in multiple rooms, buy the ITMS version for your iPod, and buy the season on DVD. Purchasing the content (or license to view the content) once isnt good enough for their greedy business plans. So what do they do to force this plan? They convince congress/the FCC that the average US citizen is guilty of pirating from square 1, and they need all the broadcast flags and DRM because we are all stealing.

As I've said before- I have no problem with them distributing their content how they want- lock it up so bad that no one can see it, for all I care. But dont be so deceitful about it. Funny thing is, if they told the truth, that they need DRM to charge the consumer over and over and over again for the same thing, no one would buy into it. But turning themselves into the "victim" sure seems to be working, and probably will work unfortunately.

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post #6 of 53 Old 05-12-2007, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Nero View Post

As I've said before- I have no problem with them distributing their content how they want- lock it up so bad that no one can see it, for all I care. But dont be so deceitful about it. Funny thing is, if they told the truth, that they need DRM to charge the consumer over and over and over again for the same thing, no one would buy into it. But turning themselves into the "victim" sure seems to be working, and probably will work unfortunately.

Well, that and the gobs and gobs of Hollywood cash deposited into the re-election funds of the relevant public servants.
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post #7 of 53 Old 05-12-2007, 09:43 AM
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Bob Zitter is a fool. He is holding back on on demand because of this? Why does he even have an HD channel, then? Does he realize that people can "pirate" shows right off the regular HBO HD channel?

And this man is head of technology???
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post #8 of 53 Old 05-12-2007, 11:12 AM
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I must be missing out on something good here. I never download stuff off the internet - even the legal stuff except for a couple times just to see what the big deal is.

However, to hear Hollywood call it, you'd thing everyone with a DSL or cable conenction was pirating content. If that's the case, here must be some real gold out there that I'm missing because I just don't see it. Maybe my grandmother knows. She's pretty shifty. I'll bet she's a hardcore content pirate.

Everything I want comes right to my home - including DVDs via Netflix. I can't imagine going through the bother some people go through to get stuff via bit torrent or P2P sites. Probably the worst thing I've done is rip and shrink a few of my DVDs down to watch on my PDA. I certainly don't share them with others. Other people can bloody well buy their own content. They can't share mine. Honestly, I'd be glad to buy that stuff from I-tunes if my PDA played Quicktime stuff. That's the only reason I even put that much effort into it.

Of course, if the studios let the cat out of the bag about who is really putting the illegal content out there, they'd never get support from the feds. From what I read, most of the content comes from people working in the studios themselves. If that's true, these guys need to police themselves before handcuffing us with more limiting technology.
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post #9 of 53 Old 05-12-2007, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Everything I want comes right to my home - including DVDs via Netflix. I can't imagine going through the bother some people go through to get stuff via bit torrent or P2P sites.

Trust me, it's not very hard at all, especially when the movies get leaked months before they come out on dvd.
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post #10 of 53 Old 05-12-2007, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nero View Post

All of this DRM or "Digital Consumer Enablement" (did that make anyone else laugh until it hurt?) as Zitter wants to call it, has nothing to do with piracy. It has to do with control.

Picture it this way- without DRM you can go get a HTPC and keep adding hard drives, record to your heart's content, broadcast to be viewed on other TVs in your house, re-rip to view on your iPod, and archive seasons of say Entourage to view again and again (i.e.- exercise fair use).

What does HBO and the rest of the entertainment industry want to force? They want to force you to buy HBO to watch it live, pay your cable company for multiple DVRs if you want to see it in multiple rooms, buy the ITMS version for your iPod, and buy the season on DVD. Purchasing the content (or license to view the content) once isnt good enough for their greedy business plans. So what do they do to force this plan? They convince congress/the FCC that the average US citizen is guilty of pirating from square 1, and they need all the broadcast flags and DRM because we are all stealing.

As I've said before- I have no problem with them distributing their content how they want- lock it up so bad that no one can see it, for all I care. But dont be so deceitful about it. Funny thing is, if they told the truth, that they need DRM to charge the consumer over and over and over again for the same thing, no one would buy into it. But turning themselves into the "victim" sure seems to be working, and probably will work unfortunately.

I pretty much agree with all that you said. What this is about is that Hollywood wants to eventually have the ability for complete PPV of every program, network and otherwise. The ultimate goal is to make us pay each and every time we watch (or listen in the case of music CD's) any of their products. DIVX (if I spelled that correctly) was a start in that direction but the public wouldn't buy it, so, if we won't buy it the plan is now to force it upon us. Piracy is for the most part simply the excuse they will use to justify their restrictions. We all know piracy is wrong, but we also know that no system of controls will ever stop the real industry pirates as they will figure a way around the system, it will only stop you and me from making 'fair use' of their product instead of PPV.

John M
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post #11 of 53 Old 05-12-2007, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

Trust me, it's not very hard at all, especially when the movies get leaked months before they come out on dvd.

Which confirms my point about it coming from the inside, not from you and me.

(Well, okay, I can't be sure about you, but certainly not from me... )
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post #12 of 53 Old 05-12-2007, 03:42 PM
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However, Zitter says most cable subscribers are still using the old component connections because the component cables are cheaper than a DVI or HDMI cable.

People pay for an HDTV, but darn those pesky cables...yeah, sure....
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post #13 of 53 Old 05-12-2007, 03:47 PM
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What are people to do that don't have a hdmi input on their hd tv's an early adopter like myself didn't have that option on their tv. Is HBO saying I can't watch HD content now.
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post #14 of 53 Old 05-12-2007, 05:30 PM
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Of course, if the studios let the cat out of the bag about who is really putting the illegal content out there, they'd never get support from the feds. From what I read, most of the content comes from people working in the studios themselves. If that's true, these guys need to police themselves before handcuffing us with more limiting technology.

ding. ding. ding. we have a winner. hollywood's biggest problem isnt home users or the guys sneaking cameras into the movies, its inside guys that are leaking dvd rips and screeners. Hollywood needs to go after them and stay the hell out of my home theater.

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post #15 of 53 Old 05-12-2007, 05:44 PM
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Hold back all the HD you want HBO. As soon as Starz HD pack comes to D* this year, its audios amigo. I will miss Bill Maher but then its gotta be on the internet some where.

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post #16 of 53 Old 05-12-2007, 05:53 PM
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HBO programming Sucks now & is overpriced
LOL

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post #17 of 53 Old 05-12-2007, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ragedogg69 View Post

ding. ding. ding. we have a winner. hollywood's biggest problem isnt home users or the guys sneaking cameras into the movies, its inside guys that are leaking dvd rips and screeners.................

I agree, but I still do not believe the piracy issue is as big as they make it sound (yes, it is illegal and should be stopped). I believe they exaggerate that threat in order to get what they really want....PPV for everything, every time you watch it. For example, just imagine the money Disney and Pixar could make on movies for kids for example. Anyone who has had children knows they can watch the same movie 40 times a week if you let them. For my money the whole impetus behind all of this is PPV or Pay-per-Play. In the case of HBO, just imagine the money if they got $3 every time you watch an episode of The Sopranos for the next 50 years. Instead of a onetime $30 for a DVD, they get to charge you forever each time you put it on.

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post #18 of 53 Old 05-12-2007, 06:13 PM
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What are people to do that don't have a hdmi input on their hd tv's an early adopter like myself didn't have that option on their tv. Is HBO saying I can't watch HD content now.

That would be their desire. You'd either have to accept a downrezzed picture, or invest in a new TV with HDMI (I'm in the same boat with a Mitsubishi RPTV I got in 2002).
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post #19 of 53 Old 05-12-2007, 06:49 PM
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Can they possibly do this? What a backlash there will inevitably be against HBO if this actually somehow happens.

If I wasn't into home theater, I'd have a whole lotta money.
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post #20 of 53 Old 05-12-2007, 08:01 PM
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There are much better and easier ways to pirate HBO content thand via component cables. I seriously doubt any "pirates" are doing it this way.

This would just screw the paying customers.

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post #21 of 53 Old 05-12-2007, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMartinko View Post

I agree, but I still do not believe the piracy issue is as big as they make it sound (yes, it is illegal and should be stopped). I believe they exaggerate that threat in order to get what they really want....PPV for everything, every time you watch it. For example, just imagine the money Disney and Pixar could make on movies for kids for example. Anyone who has had children knows they can watch the same movie 40 times a week if you let them. For my money the whole impetus behind all of this is PPV or Pay-per-Play. In the case of HBO, just imagine the money if they got $3 every time you watch an episode of The Sopranos for the next 50 years. Instead of a onetime $30 for a DVD, they get to charge you forever each time you put it on.

And this would then make customers who would normally buy that dvd go to the flea market and get the illegal version, because they cant afford that $3 per view.

But as someone said before, no matter what you do the hackers will find a way around it. Either by cracking it or the DVD forum releasing the code in a press release.

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post #22 of 53 Old 05-12-2007, 09:11 PM
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The problem with this way of thinking by HBO and the movie moguls who want to do the same thing with HD on DVD... is that 5 minutes after they implement a protection scheme, somewhere in the world a hacker will have already broken it!

Meanwhile, early adopters like myself (Toshiba without DVI or HDMI connections) and others above in the thread, who would legitimately pay for the services will be left out in the cold unless we buy brand new TVs... again!

Hopefully the consumers will backlash and not allow these kinds of DRM to surface in the marketplace.

Hacking and pirating is bad... and I would be all for protecting rights and ownership too... but I have to think they end up spending all this money to prevent pirating, yet don't actually prevent it... meanwhile the price and inconvenience factor is driven up for the folks who want to pay for it... and we all lose.

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post #23 of 53 Old 05-12-2007, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S. Hiller View Post

However, Zitter says most cable subscribers are still using the old component connections because the component cables are cheaper than a DVI or HDMI cable.

People pay for an HDTV, but darn those pesky cables...yeah, sure....

Yeah, my component cables were definitely cheaper, the cable company supplied them with the DVRs I rented. I honestly don't understand where HBO is coming from on this argument. The signal is encrypted coming into the cable box, I can't imagine the cable companies crippling all the boxes they have in the field just to satisfy a whim by HBO.
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post #24 of 53 Old 05-12-2007, 10:02 PM
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Whenever I think about subscribing to HBO, especially during those "pay almost nothing for a year" offers, something always persuades me that it's not worth it. As long as they keep releasing stuff on DVD (gosh, isn't that risky?), I'll be happy without them.

NOW: my post on AVS Forum.
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post #25 of 53 Old 05-13-2007, 12:12 AM
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Hmmm. I wasn't aware that HD copies could be made of On Demand programs. Thanks for the tip, HBO.

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post #26 of 53 Old 05-13-2007, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petergaryr View Post

You'd either have to accept a downrezzed picture, or invest in a new TV with HDMI .

The TV is not my problem as all mine have HDMI/DVI-D connections. My problem is a fairly intricate component distribution system that allows me to watch content from two HR-DVR's in 4 different rooms.

Please do not send me PM's asking for software! You will not get it.
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post #27 of 53 Old 05-13-2007, 08:23 AM
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Perhaps I missed something in the HBO statement, but would there not be a problem had HBO not begun to provide HD content to On Demand?

Will the component restriction affect non cable viewers (DirecTV) who do not have access to On Demand?

B
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post #28 of 53 Old 05-13-2007, 08:24 AM
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Hmmm. I wasn't aware that HD copies could be made of On Demand programs. Thanks for the tip, HBO.

LOL - it seems like the more these content companies make such a big issue publicly about this "epidemic", the more motivated people are to crack new protection schemes just for the challenge of doing it.

Most of these guys that actually do the cracking have no desire to steal content (they leave that to others, if they choose). The juice for these encryption crackers is to do what people say can't be done.
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post #29 of 53 Old 05-13-2007, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Marcus Carr View Post

Hmmm. I wasn't aware that HD copies could be made of On Demand programs. Thanks for the tip, HBO.

I'm almost positive it can't, we just discussed this in our local Comcast thread the other day. I'm not sure what the hell Zitter is talking about.

Okay, I guess it can't be done through the digital outputs, but who the heck uses component outputs to copy HD material?
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post #30 of 53 Old 05-13-2007, 11:21 AM
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On-Demand movies are often sent through unecrypted QAM. If you hunt around you can usually find the show you're watching (as well as other people's).

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