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post #2671 of 2699 Old 05-18-2015, 12:49 PM
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Ambiguous, but of course Don did the Coke ad - the source of his grin and the little finger bell "ding" you hear right before it plays.

As far as Peggy and Stan they've been best friends and were clearly meant for each other for years now.
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post #2672 of 2699 Old 05-18-2015, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieva View Post
Did anyone see the Stan/Peggy I love you moment coming? That seemed totally out of left field
It didn't surprise me at all -- they have always gotten along very well and worked through issues together. Stan was always willing to talk to Peggy even when whe was upset and he accepted her appologies when she was out of line. Stan is the only one (besides Don) that Peggy shared the story of her baby with.
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post #2673 of 2699 Old 05-18-2015, 01:39 PM
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http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/featu...inale-20150518

Didn't realize that was Helen Slater
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post #2674 of 2699 Old 05-18-2015, 03:26 PM
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It was definitely Don's ad. The whole hippie on a hill top vibe. The receptionist girl has the same hair and dress as one of the girls in the commercial.

The question is was this meant cynically? Did Don finally had a turn around and put his newly found serenity in a hopeful ad, or did he just go back to his old self and the main thing he got out of the whole odyssey is another kick ass ad. Stan said don't worry about Don, he goes through these benders but he always goes back to same old same old Don. The opening title shows the world breaking apart and Don falling falling but at the end he ends up lounging on a couch, in a suit, with a cigarette in his hand. As much as he may hate himself and the whole ad business, being a mad man is the only thing he is good at, and it's what he goes back to. Don says he knows how people work, and the only thing he seems to be able to do with that is to sell them cigarettes and sugar water.
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post #2675 of 2699 Old 05-18-2015, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by LL3HD View Post
With all the subtle Coke imagery I bet the series will end with the infamous ad- "I'd like to teach the world to sing."

Whether Don is the one selling this campaign-- I'm not sure. But he seems to have crossed paths with many of the diverse folks who would be seen in that spot singing.

It just feels right. Perfect harmony.
Geeze! This is a tough crowd. No props?

I called it to the moment.

And there is no question-- no ambiguity-- of course it was Don's ad.
What the hell was his smile for? Gas?

This ending was so predictable after last week's episode. This song would be playing. The build up was there. I guess if you lived through the time and remember that campaign you'd see the similarities.

That said, I liked Mad Men but not on the level of the fan boys.
It was just okay in my book. I stuck through it from the first season but it's always been a subpar Peyton Place soap opera with great set design and costumes.

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post #2676 of 2699 Old 05-18-2015, 05:17 PM
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The first four seasons were excellent. It was still good to very good the last 3 seasons but not on the level of 1-4.
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post #2677 of 2699 Old 05-18-2015, 05:28 PM
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post #2678 of 2699 Old 05-19-2015, 02:38 AM
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Excellent finale!

Pete, Joan, Peggy, Roger, and even Don, ending on a high note. The only sadness was seeing Sally taking care of her dying mother in the kitchen.

Sad to see this go. My only complaint is that they took two years to finish what should have been completed in one. Last season wasn’t one of my favorites, however, had they combined the two seasons my feelings would be different.

The opening and ending montage was a nice touch. Apropos, they played off of the Kodak commercial, Times of Your Life, from the 70s.
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post #2679 of 2699 Old 05-19-2015, 03:04 AM
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I was less impressed, however, with the scenes at the self help seminar where Don somehow found himself after hugging it out with the guy who imagined he had been sitting on a shelf in the refrigerator. Can somebody explain what that was all about?
From Don’s perspective, he was describing Dick Whitman. Don knew exactly what the guy was feeling because he felt the same way. With the exception of Stephanie and Anna, no one ever “saw” Dick Whitman; they only “saw” Don Draper. The question is; did he go back to New York as Don or Dick?

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I can see Don looking up Stephanie, Anna's niece.
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Geeze! This is a tough crowd. No props?
Tell me about it; I’ve been waiting for you to quote me.

BTW, good call.
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post #2680 of 2699 Old 05-19-2015, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by jamieva View Post
Or did Peggy write the Coke ad? What was she typing away on the typewriter in her last scene? Something for Joan's voice over thing or was she writing up the Coke ad?

Weiner left it ambiguous about the Coke ad on purpose. Will be interested to see if he does an interview about it because he seems infatuated about talking about this show. He loves to be interviewed
Weiner is supposed to be interviewed Thursday but I can't see how it wouldn't be Don's. As others have pointed out there are far too many similarities to the retreat and the people there for it to come from someone else.
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post #2681 of 2699 Old 05-19-2015, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by LL3HD View Post
Geeze! This is a tough crowd. No props?

I called it to the moment.

And there is no question-- no ambiguity-- of course it was Don's ad.
What the hell was his smile for? Gas?

This ending was so predictable after last week's episode. This song would be playing. The build up was there. I guess if you lived through the time and remember that campaign you'd see the similarities.

That said, I liked Mad Men but not on the level of the fan boys.
It was just okay in my book. I stuck through it from the first season but it's always been a subpar Peyton Place soap opera with great set design and costumes.
I said last week that you might be right and you were. Congrats.
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post #2682 of 2699 Old 05-19-2015, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Aliens View Post
From Don’s perspective, he was describing Dick Whitman. Don knew exactly what the guy was feeling because he felt the same way. With the exception of Stephanie and Anna, no one ever “saw” Dick Whitman; they only “saw” Don Draper. The question is; did he go back to New York as Don or Dick?
Exactly.
I can't understand how this is not so obvious to many of the more astute viewers.

The show slaps the viewer in the face time and again with their simple messages. I've commented here on this in the past. Once over a song they chose to play in the background that was so over the top.

As I said the other day, too many arm chair critics were (finally) coming to the conclusion that the falling man in the opening credits was figuratively Don. I've heard viewers say this for years. But with all of the wagon jumpers now on board it was getting comical. Everyone was saying-- this is how it will end.

That is why the show chose the happiest of endings. Don is king. He survives on top of the world. Wow! What a suprise.




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Tell me about it; I’ve been waiting for you to quote me.
There-- happy now?

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BTW, good call.
Thanks! I was starting to feel like Don, or Dick for a minute there (or that Griffin dude)
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post #2683 of 2699 Old 05-19-2015, 08:20 AM
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[QUOTE=barth2k;34319058]It was definitely Don's ad. The whole hippie on a hill top vibe. The receptionist girl has the same hair and dress as one of the girls in the commercial.

The question is was this meant cynically? Did Don finally had a turn around and put his newly found serenity in a hopeful ad, or did he just go back to his old self and the main thing he got out of the whole odyssey is another kick ass ad. Stan said don't worry about Don, he goes through these benders but he always goes back to same old same old Don. The opening title shows the world breaking apart and Don falling falling but at the end he ends up lounging on a couch, in a suit, with a cigarette in his hand. As much as he may hate himself and the whole ad business, being a mad man is the only thing he is good at, and it's what he goes back to. Don says he knows how people work, and the only thing he seems to be able to do with that is to sell them cigarettes and sugar water.[


I don't think it was cynical. Don has come a long way. He admitted to the American Legion that he stole someones identity and nobody saw anything wrong with that.(one did everything they could to get out of that war and Viet Nam). He then admitted it all to Peggy and it wasn't a big deal. At the commune he saw other people carrying burdens worse than his.
Look at his ads in the 60's. Very simple, superficial catch phrases. Then the coke ad(70's), reaching for peoples feelings. He discovered that people have all kinds of burdens and feelings and what if you could reach those feelings. His attempts at solving crisises(with the kids and former wife and with the girl who took him to the commune) no longer worked because he only looked at things on the surface and that no longer meant anything.
BTW, I hated that ad in the 70's but I wasn't a flower child.

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post #2684 of 2699 Old 05-19-2015, 09:57 AM
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That is why the show chose the happiest of endings. Don is king. He survives on top of the world. Wow! What a suprise.
He may be the king of the ad world with his new Coke ad campaign, but his personal life will still be a fall through a chasm.
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post #2685 of 2699 Old 05-19-2015, 10:27 AM
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He may be the king of the ad world with his new Coke ad campaign, but his personal life will still be a fall through a chasm.
No. For the first time in his life he is content with himself.
Just like the rest of the main characters are too. They all finally found their purpose-- happiness-- balance--

PERFECT HARMONY. Get it?


As hum said--

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And now we (kind of) know what the opening montage really means. It's not Don falling to his death, but his world in the advertising business (and all its fakery) falling away from him. But he recovers at the end with a cigarette in his hand.

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post #2686 of 2699 Old 05-19-2015, 10:52 AM
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Some people have commented that all of the main characters have a positive, fulfilling "happy ending" where their future looks bright except for Betty who is certainly going to die and Sally who some view as "stuck caring for her siblings and dying mother." I believe those who have taken this view miss the point entirely and ccouldn't be further from the truth.

The reality is even Sally's stories arc has a very positive end and future! Think about it through the lens of the entire series: Prior to learning of her mother's impending death; Sally, has been following in Betty's footsteps; she has been growing into a self-centered young lady who, like Betty has only been thinking of herself. If she had continued on that same "Sally centered" path, in another ten years or less she would have ended up exactly like Betty.

However, this is where everything changes for Sally. When she learns about her mother's condition, instead of doing what Betty says: "stay there at school, DON'T come home", Sally "grows up"; she makes the right, conscientious decision, all on her own, to disobey Betty, leave school and come home! This is a very mature, sacrificial, adult choice for Sally to make.

Instead of only thinking of herself and "Sally's needs", she makes the adult decision to come home because, unlike Betty, she realizes her FAMILY NEEDS HER and she needs to be there for them!

When Sally gets home, instead of thinking of herself she immediately recognizes her younger brother's desasterous attempt (badly burnt toast) to make something to eat for his younger brother and himself because THEY ARE VERY HUNGRY and neither Betty or their step father (who, upon learning his wife's incurable diagnosis, has become an emotional "basket case, incapable of helping) are there to make anything for them to eat.

Instead of berating Bobby for messing up, Sally, calmly throws the burnt toast away and lovingly, reassuringly tells Bobby she will make it for them and TEACH him how to do it properly. Sally has grown up in more ways than one. Her presence, demeanor and actions speak volumes. Without saying a word, Sally communicates to them that "Everything is going to be ok, because we are family; l love you and I am here for you."

This newfound attitude and level of adult maturity, devotion to her family and self sacrifice on Sally's part is also communicated throughout her very last scene: Contrary to Betty's orders "not to come home", Sally is there; calmly washing dishes (most likely cleaning up after she has made dinner for everyone), while Betty, coldly, nonchalantly, smokes a cigarette (the instrument of her impending demise) and mindlessly flips through a magazine seemingly oblivious to her daughter's presence (Betty; self absorbed to the bitter end).

Unlike Betty, Sally has made a choice, the right choice, a mature choice: Sally has determined that she is not going to end up like her self-centered mother; because come what may, "Everything is going to be 'ok', at least as much as it can be 'ok' under the circumstances, because we are family; I love you and I am here for you!" (In Betty's case; Whether you, like it or choose to acknowledge it or not!")

Sally's future is bright; she is going to turn into a fine woman because of this choice she has made.
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post #2687 of 2699 Old 05-19-2015, 11:06 AM
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post #2688 of 2699 Old 05-19-2015, 11:40 AM
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Some people have commented that all of the main characters have a positive, fulfilling "happy ending" where their future looks bright except for Betty who is certainly going to die and Sally who some view as "stuck caring for her siblings and dying mother." I believe those who have taken this view miss the point entirely and ccouldn't be further from the truth.
I agree with what you wrote, and very well said, BTW. My reference to the sadness was not for a burden placed upon Sally, but for losing her mother at such a young age. In addition to that, seeing a character (even though a selfish character) we've come to know for so many years die.

That last episode was Jon Hamm at his best.
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post #2689 of 2699 Old 05-19-2015, 11:45 AM
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Great ending to a less than perfect finale.

As I read it, Don "found himself" at the New Age-y retreat by getting in touch with and releasing some of his pain of feeling abandoned and unloved as a child that he carried with him into adulthood. Because he was always disconnected from his feelings, avoiding that pain, he never really connected with anyone on a deeper feeling level to create a lasting relationship. He was a stranger to his kids, his wives, his girlfriends, his co-workers, and more importantly, himself; and like a milk bottle sitting on the shelf in the frige, he was someone people liked having around, but not necessarily something they wanted or loved as much as say a bottle of coke or a beer.

It's not about Don becoming Dick Whitman (it never could be in the legal sense since Dick Whitman is legally dead), it's about Don becoming his authentic feeling self beyond the personnas he's adopted during his life.

I honestly wasn't sure if Don had created the Coke ad, but based on what some people are saying in this thread, that makes the most sense. After his experience at the retreat, he is in a better position to create an ad about a feeling, which is something he always endeavored to do, but now with feeling. And because of Don's newfound insights and connection to his true feeling self, he's in a much better position to couple his work success with a stable relationship.

Pretty much all the other "happy endings" felt a bit rushed and forced to me... especially the Roger/Megan's mom thing. One minute she's throwing him out of bed; the next, he's telling Joan they are getting married.

The only situation that I could see happening if this wasn't a finale season/episode is the Peggy/Stan relationship. Even though it was rushed in the sense that it got shoehorned in during the final minutes of the finale, I could easily see that happening earlier in the season or in this season even if there were going to be more seasons. It was pretty much inevitable, like best friends finally owning up to their feelings for one another.
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post #2690 of 2699 Old 05-19-2015, 01:08 PM
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...I believe those who have taken this view miss the point entirely and ccouldn't be further from the truth...
Yes, I agree with your points about Sally. Don't think anyone would disagree.


And....
Even Betty, who is holding the worst hand, is good with her situation.

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post #2691 of 2699 Old 05-19-2015, 06:40 PM
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Thought you'd might get a kick out of this obit.


Don Draper, Maverick Ad Man, Dead at 88

by John Immesoete, May 5, 2015, 8:02 AM

Don Draper, a copywriter and creative director whose ideas were some of the most thought-provoking and talked-about of the decades between the Sixties and Nineties, died Tuesday at his son’s home in Hudson, N.Y. He was 88.

The cause was cardiac arrest, according to his son, Robert Draper, who was his father’s caretaker during the last decade of his life.

“One of the world’s most-loved, most-hated and most-misunderstood advertising geniuses,” is how Peggy Olson-Levitt, former Worldwide Chief Creative Officer of McCann-Erickson, and one of Draper’s many protégés, described him. “I’d call him an enigma shrouded in mystery wrapped in a paradigm, but if I did he’d say, ‘What the hell does that mean?’ Let’s just say he was complicated.”

Draper’s co-workers included AAF president Roger Sterling (deceased since 1982), Pete Campbell, chairman emeritus of the Omnicom Group, and Harry Crane, retired partner of the United Talent Agency. His students also included Stan Rizzo, creator of the “Hippie, Trippy, Dippy Daddy” syndicated comic strip, and celebrated screenwriter and director Michael Ginsberg, a former copywriter.

“Don drove me to be better, think harder and write better. He drove me crazy. And when I got crazy, I got famous,” said Ginsberg. “Don also taught me a character’s 'moral center' isn’t a solid core but an amorphous, gassy blob.”

Draper’s advertising work was memorable, hard to miss, and often polarizing. In the 1960s, he and a handful of advertising mavericks ushered in the “Big Idea” era of advertising. Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce created iconic campaigns for clients including Kodak, R.J. Reynolds, Hilton Hotels, Nabisco Foods, and Peter Pan.

In the 1970s, the agency (rebranded Draper-Campbell), created campaigns for Chrysler that had Ricardo Montalban memorably touting the Cordoba’s “rich, Corinthian leather.” They had the world singing, “There’s a fragrance and it’s here to stay and they call it Charlie.” And they reminded us that diehard Tareyton smokers, despite the Attorney General’s increasingly ominous claims, “would rather fight than switch."

“We made a lot of friends but pissed off a lot of people with our work back then,” Campbell said. “I think Don was happiest when he was pissing people off. It meant people noticed what we were doing.”

Draper-Campbell’s run ended in the early 1980s when it sold its interests to McCann-Erickson, which absorbed their clients and gradually retired the name. Campbell remained with the agency but Draper quit abruptly. “I refuse to be a name reduced to an initial reduced to a ghost and managed by idiots. So I quit.” So read his short-but-memorable companywide memo, announcing his decision.

Draper pursued other interests with typical relish and abandon. He briefly joined the car company of his friend John DeLorean as chief advertising officer before DMC met its infamous, untimely demise. He pursued commercial real estate interests with his fourth wife, Amanda, before their contentious divorce dissolved that business. He even briefly returned to his first career, as a furrier, opening a slew of high-end boutiques in major cities just as the fur business reached huge popularity in the late 1980s. Despite his success, Draper’s first love remained advertising.

“Dad made a fortune in the fur business but it bored him. When he saw the 'new' advertising being done in the late Eighties and early Nineties by shops like Fallon, Chiat/Day and Goodby, he wanted back in,” said Robert Draper. “There’s truth and edge to the best stuff they’re doing and he wanted to show the world he still had an edge.”

He abruptly sold the fur boutiques and launched Draper with a simple client-acquisition strategy: “Let’s pursue clients who refuse to be boring and who refuse to be ignored.”

The strategy worked, and Draper won numerous awards for brash, abrasive, and unforgettable campaigns for clients including Yugo, Seiko, Budweiser, Playtex, Sony and the Archdiocese of New York.

Draper was married and divorced five times. His daughter, socialite Sally Draper, and another son, Gene, predeceased him.

Little is known of Draper’s early years, other than that he grew up in meager circumstances on a farm in rural Illinois. He served in the Korean Conflict and moved to New York City in 1954.

His wit and willingness to provoke never left him. When asked to speak to a group of young creatives at a conference in 2000, he followed a famous direct-marketing expert, who told the crowd that 'the big idea' era of advertising is dead. The future would be all direct selling and personally crafted messages.”

Draper took the stage. “The best advice I can give you,” he told the young audience while pointing at the speaker who had preceded him, “is to forget everything that guy just told you.” Then he left.


http://www.mediapost.com/publication...ead-at-88.html
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post #2692 of 2699 Old 05-19-2015, 07:24 PM
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^^^^^ Lovely stuff! Thanks for posting it.
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post #2693 of 2699 Old Yesterday, 10:52 AM
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Here's an interesting piece from the NY Times Business section a couple of days ago on the creator of that ad.


Mad Men Finale Renews Spotlight on Creator of '71 Coke Jingle

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/05/19...referrer=&_r=0

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post #2694 of 2699 Old Yesterday, 06:15 PM
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This was from Redit
The image from the opening credits and the last show.
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post #2695 of 2699 Old Yesterday, 06:24 PM
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A conversation with creator Matt Weiner confirms...

Mad Men Creator: Finale Coke Ad Came From Don's 'Enlightened State'

To be honest, I never saw it any other way, but is seems some people still thought it was too vague an ending.
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post #2696 of 2699 Old Today, 05:56 AM
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Wow in 7 seasons he allowed 1 unscripted word into the show.

His Netflix quote is a little confusing, does he mean that if he did a Netflix show he would not want them to release the entire season on 1 day as they do now?
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Yeah, he was a notorious uber-control freak. I read an interview with Christina Hendricks where she revealed that Weiner has everything scripted - when to take a drag on the cigarette, when to sip a drink, etc. When she told him that he didn't have to script when she should sip her coffee, he said, "Yes, I do".
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That's brutal.
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I guess the point of the story the guy told in the group (refrigerator dream) was to make Don realize that the only place that he mattered was at the ad agency. Betty didn't want him. Neither did his kids. But the people he worked with cared. So, back he went.

David M.
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