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post #721 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 05:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverickster2 View Post

if OAR of 4:3 SD Content is NOT an option


It is an option. An option most are taking.
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post #722 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 05:44 AM
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Anybody in the North East getting these new HD channels? I just get the "Searching for Signal" message. I called D* and they said they are troubleshooting.

--Mike
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post #723 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_murdock View Post

Anybody in the North East getting these new HD channels? I just get the "Searching for Signal" message. I called D* and they said they are troubleshooting.

After punching in channel number on remote I get the same message. Then, I channel down, and channel up back to the station I want and the signal comes in. It is a pain in the arse, but it works.

NB
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post #724 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 05:56 AM
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Has anyone attempted to get any bitrate/broadcast resolution data off these new mpeg4 channels. It would be nice to see what D* is actually spitting out.
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post #725 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post

There is 4:3 content such as old movies shot on film that can be remastered in HD and presented in 4:3 format. Same as a 2.35:1 movie presented in HD is still HD even though it doesn't "fill the screen".

Rudolph on CBS the last few years for example.

Didn't I already say enough?
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post #726 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 06:09 AM
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Quick qt. before I call D*.

I'm getting 0s, 2 80s, some 50s, 60s, 70s, some 30s on my 103(b)
transponders. Is it the dish...or will D* continue to do stuff that will cause them to improve?

In others words, wait or call and insist on a dish tweak?

Thanks.
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post #727 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 06:21 AM
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I just looked at the Recent Activity on my account online and see that they have just today added no charge entries for Cinemax HD access and Sports HD access. I'm a Premier subscriber.
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post #728 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 06:23 AM
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[quote=SamwisetheBrave;11752762]Quick qt. before I call D*.

I'm getting 0s, 2 80s, some 50s, 60s, 70s, some 30s on my 103(b)
transponders. Is it the dish...or will D* continue to do stuff that will cause them to improve?

In others words, wait or call and insist on a dish tweak?
QUOTE]

I'd call them. All of my 103b's are over 90 w/ most of them over 95. Looks like your dish might need to be adjusted.
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post #729 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 06:51 AM
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I have a HR20 and when swithing to one of the D10 channels, there is slight freeze before action continues. It seems when switching between D10 channels there is no freeze but only when switching from a non D10 to D10. Anyone else see this?

Jim
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post #730 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverickster2 View Post

Agreed on the deceptiveness of the practice and agreed on the preference for OAR of 4:3 SD content, but I would like to reiterate that if OAR of 4:3 SD Content is NOT an option (as the guy from the network suggested) and we absolutely MUST live with manipulation of the material at the source/cablenet level, then I MUCH prefer the zoom/crop/mild stretch method that has been employed by the Discovery channels (the one that has the slim bars on the side) than the garbage some of the other cablenets (i.e. A&EHD) are doing.

I do agree that some channels do it much worse than others.

If I want to watch distorted 4:3 SD content I'll watch the non-HD channel.

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post #731 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirluckyj View Post

I have a HR20 and when swithing to one of the D10 channels, there is slight freeze before action continues. It seems when switching between D10 channels there is no freeze but only when switching from a non D10 to D10. Anyone else see this?

Jim

Same thing happens with me as well. Probably takes a split second to sync up with the other satellite when going back and forth. If you are already syncd to that sat, it won't lag when changing channels. Just a guess as I really don't know.

Tony
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post #732 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post

If the TV and STB can't stretch - then viewers have the option of switching to the SD channel and manipulating it however they want.

Those that want the best quality with the programming presented in its proper format should be able to get the best the network has to offer on their premium HD channel - not switch back and forth depending on the program.

It's the equivalent of HBO putting a stereo soundtrack on the SD programming on HBO HD and the DD5.1 soundtrack on their SD channel.

Great post, keyword premium. Premium means best right? Manipulating 4:3 SD content is the best PQ that can be offered?

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post #733 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post

It is an option. An option most are taking.

Yeah, but that's not the point. I don't mean if it's "not an option" from an objective, fact perspective; I mean if it's "not an option" from a marketing cablenet perspective. That is, if the cablenet has determined (in its infinite wisdom) to not do 4:3 SD content in OAR, and that won't change, I prefer the way Discovery does its manipulation. That's all I'm saying, really.
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post #734 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverickster2 View Post

Yeah, but that's not the point. I don't mean if it's "not an option" from an objective, fact perspective; I mean if it's "not an option" from a marketing cablenet perspective. That is, if the cablenet has determined (in its infinite wisdom) to not do 4:3 SD content in OAR, and that won't change, I prefer the way Discovery does its manipulation. That's all I'm saying, really.

That is where we must email, write letters, and call and complain. This forum has been able to push change at some networks in the best. We should not "settle" for something that is "not an option" when it is actually an option.

-Brian
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post #735 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTTC View Post

Jeremy W is correct. Discovery, Science, TLC and Animal Planet are using very good upconverters. The 4:3 content is zoomed and cropped, and very slightly stretched (linear stretch, not flexed). The attempt has been made to fill as much of the 16:9 screen as possible with the least amount of negative impact. Opinions on how succesful we have been will naturally vary.

HD content airs as 16:9 of course, as does 4:3 SD letterboxed content. This SD content is upconverted and zoomed to fill the 16:9 screen with no loss of content and no distortion.

Your numerous comments about OAR are noted. It's fine for those who understand that HD can include 4:3 content, but there are far more viewers who believe that if it doesn't fill the screen it's not HD. There are even some postings here on the forum complaining about HD channels not filling the screen. As much as we may not like it, upconverted SD will be part of these channels for some time, though the percentage of true HD is rapidly increasing. Prime time is the best time to catch true HD.

Thats a shame. CNN, ESPN and others do just fine showing 4:3 SD content in a 4:3 window with no stretching/zooming.

Even though the public is still largely uneducated with regards to HD, your channels can help. Instead, the public turns on your channel and sees a zoomed/stretched upconverted picture that almost fills their screen. Talk about confusing.

-Brian
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post #736 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaldron View Post

Following this argument is confusing. Jeremy's point is correct, 245 is currently in MPEG2 as are the other remapped channels. Take off your BBCs and you will still receive them.

Unless Scobuck or others have inside info that they will be switching TNT-HD on 245 to MPEG4 (or adding an MPEG4 version as 245-1), I am not seeing what the debate is about?

Maybe I'm wrong, but BBCs don't necessarily hold the answer. They are related to frequency band/satellite, not MPEG format.

If D* chose to send MPEG4 signals from one of the old sats (can be done because they just relay anything sent to them), it would still be on that old sat frequency band and the BBCs would not be required.
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post #737 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeks View Post

Thats a shame. CNN, ESPN and others do just fine showing 4:3 SD content in a 4:3 window with no stretching/zooming.

As do virtually all of the 700-800 digital broadcast affiliates. These handful of exceptions aren't at the mercy of public ignorance - they're perpetuating it, and in many cases, causing it.
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post #738 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeks View Post

Thats a shame. CNN, ESPN and others do just fine showing 4:3 SD content in a 4:3 window with no stretching/zooming.

And to add to this, the list is here that has been reported so far. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=914099

Quote:


Even though the public is still largely uneducated with regards to HD, your channels can help. Instead, the public turns on your channel and sees a zoomed/stretched upconverted picture that almost fills their screen. Talk about confusing.

Yep. When these first came on there were many many posts saying the HD PQ doesn't look that good. Just imagine what those are thinking who don't visit the boards like avs and dbstalk.

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post #739 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb View Post

Maybe I'm wrong, but BBCs don't necessarily hold the answer. They are related to frequency band/satellite, not MPEG format.

If D* chose to send MPEG4 signals from one of the old sats (can be done because they just relay anything sent to them), it would still be on that old sat frequency band and the BBCs would not be required.

That is true, the old sats don't care MPEG2/MPEG4 whatever. But think about it for a moment, if D* had the room to add 4 additional channels in MPEG4 along with keeping them in MPEG2 don't you think they would have done that months ago to add some new channels, not just dups of existing channels?
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post #740 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post

As do virtually all of the 700-800 digital broadcast affiliates. These handful of exceptions aren't at the mercy of public ignorance - they're perpetuating it, and in many cases, causing it.

Agreed. I've said my peace about what "brand" of manipulation I prefer (sort of like saying, "I would prefer to be kicked in the face, rather than kicked in the nuts"), but obviously, the "right" answer is for them to do it "right" -- i.e. 4:3 SD content broadcast in OAR (which is saying, "I'd prefer to not be kicked at all, thank you").

Where do I sign my petition?

--Mav
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post #741 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plgh View Post

My channel guide lists all the new HD channels but in spite of multiple soft/hard reboots, sat. resetups etc. on H20 and HR20 I get the dreaded "searching for signal #711". All other HD/SD same as it ever was. Cust. service said the sats. aren't up and running but since everyone else is getting reception that must mean Dallas gets its own satellite. Any other N. Texas Customers with similar probs? (sorry for the length)
Pete

I'd call back and get another csr. All of these new channels are coming from the same sat.

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post #742 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 07:58 AM
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Same prob in N. Texas
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post #743 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Has anyone attempted to get any bitrate/broadcast resolution data off these new mpeg4 channels. It would be nice to see what D* is actually spitting out.

Anyone?
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post #744 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 08:23 AM
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Anyone?

no

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post #745 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aviators99 View Post

Related, but opposite question:

What about those (very few) of us who have the HD package, but not any basic tier? Will we get the channels? I can't test it, because I don't have an Mpeg4 receiver yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richard korsgren View Post

You will only get the newer MPEG4 HD channels with the newer MPEG4 H20 receiver, 5 lnb dish and subscription to HD channels. You will then get the newest HD channels if they are in your tier of SD programming.

Are you sure? This is the opposite of the MPEG2 situation, where for example I am receiving ESPN and ESPN2 even though they are not in my tier of SD programming.
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post #746 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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You are in a very select few.

You'll be the one telling us definitively how they handle your situation, we can only speculate.
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post #747 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 08:47 AM
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Has anybody else noticed that they have their HD Extra Package available now on the D* site?
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post #748 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb View Post

Maybe I'm wrong, but BBCs don't necessarily hold the answer. They are related to frequency band/satellite, not MPEG format.

If D* chose to send MPEG4 signals from one of the old sats (can be done because they just relay anything sent to them), it would still be on that old sat frequency band and the BBCs would not be required.

I understand that there is no technical relationship b/t band and compression scheme -- hence people can receive their HD Locals without the BBCs (or the SWM module, which incorporates the BBC functionality). There is a practical relationship, though: the new MPEG4 channels from D10 require the BBCs.
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post #749 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp11 View Post

That dream wont come true until 1080P. Then you'll be blown away.

A well done 1080i broadcast (full rez) on a digital display capable of good deinterlacing, is 1080p.
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post #750 of 14895 Old 09-28-2007, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidboy View Post

You are correct. The satellites just take an uplinked signal and send it back down. They don't care what it is.

Theoretically, D* could upgrade everyone to MPEG-4 capable STBs (including SD only users) and then change all of their signals on all of their satellites to MPEG-4 and greatly increase their overall channel capacity (and/or increase quality). I doubt they will any time soon, due to the cost of replacing the millions of boxes out there.

The manufacturing cost on STBs is coming down fast enough that replacing them might be cheaper (better return-on-investment) than building and launching new satellites. It is a logistic nightmare though.

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