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post #2941 of 2957 Old 03-06-2015, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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That last scene with her and Raj in bed and her asking about the closet and if he looked was awesome. Her evil smile was priceless. She knew what it would do to him and then Raj looking at the closet door. Man, to funny.

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post #2942 of 2957 Old 03-06-2015, 06:45 PM
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Great episode last night. Loved Sheldon's Mars video. Nice dedication to Nimoy too.
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post #2943 of 2957 Old 03-15-2015, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Didn't find this episode all that funny, but it was kind of touching. Not a lot of laugh out load moments but a lot of smiles and chuckles.
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post #2944 of 2957 Old 03-15-2015, 10:36 AM
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Didn't find this episode all that funny, but it was kind of touching. Not a lot of laugh out load moments but a lot of smiles and chuckles.
Ditto. Hopefully, after March Madness ends, we get funny episodes. At least, the writers added the death elements from real life of a voice actress.
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post #2945 of 2957 Old 03-16-2015, 08:56 AM
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A couple of things about characterization really stuck out in this episode.

First, Howard's usual "mommy issues" have risen to the level of neurosis, and clearly this is intentional. The writers have used Bernadette's vocal resemblance to "Mom" in the past, to comedic effect, but never before have they made it so clear that Howard basically married his mother, that Bernadette is fine with that, and that the whole situation is, well, kind of sick.

Second, Leonard's willingness to be walked on by Sheldon has sunk to a new low, and it's getting difficult to continue to believe. As Sheldon has been humanized over the last couple of seasons, as he is shown to be capable of at least intellectually understanding how other people feel, his willingness to be purposefully mean and treat his friends like dirt becomes harder to take. His role in denying Leonard the credit he deserves -- his actual defense of his position that Leonard's contribution was secondary, which is revisionist history if you remember the original episode -- is deliberately hurtful in a way that should no longer be acceptable to his friends as just "Sheldon being Sheldon."

I still enjoy the show and find it funny, in general, but if I do ultimately bail it will be because Sheldon is no longer being portrayed as damaged, but instead as hateful.
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post #2946 of 2957 Old 03-16-2015, 11:16 AM
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A couple of things about characterization really stuck out in this episode.



First, Howard's usual "mommy issues" have risen to the level of neurosis, and clearly this is intentional. The writers have used Bernadette's vocal resemblance to "Mom" in the past, to comedic effect, but never before have they made it so clear that Howard basically married his mother, that Bernadette is fine with that, and that the whole situation is, well, kind of sick.



Second, Leonard's willingness to be walked on by Sheldon has sunk to a new low, and it's getting difficult to continue to believe. As Sheldon has been humanized over the last couple of seasons, as he is shown to be capable of at least intellectually understanding how other people feel, his willingness to be purposefully mean and treat his friends like dirt becomes harder to take. His role in denying Leonard the credit he deserves -- his actual defense of his position that Leonard's contribution was secondary, which is revisionist history if you remember the original episode -- is deliberately hurtful in a way that should no longer be acceptable to his friends as just "Sheldon being Sheldon."



I still enjoy the show and find it funny, in general, but if I do ultimately bail it will be because Sheldon is no longer being portrayed as damaged, but instead as hateful.

They actually made a reference to Bernadette earlier (can't remember the season or episode) this was something that I thought had been up before.


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post #2947 of 2957 Old 03-16-2015, 11:27 AM
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They actually made a reference to Bernadette earlier (can't remember the season or episode) this was something that I thought had been up before.
Yes, they used the resemblance as the basis for a gag, and it was funny. Coming back to it in the current context, and hammering on it the way they did, raises it to a whole new level; "the Mom is dead; hail to the Mom." It was very, very on the nose and, IMO, kinda creepy.

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post #2948 of 2957 Old 03-16-2015, 12:55 PM
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Maybe they are just perpetuating the stereotype that "Jewish boys marry their mothers".
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post #2949 of 2957 Old 03-16-2015, 07:04 PM
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It's not just Jewish men, most of the married guys I know are like that. A Mom that you can F__k! The wives accordingly treat them that way!
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post #2950 of 2957 Old 03-17-2015, 04:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdclark View Post
A couple of things about characterization really stuck out in this episode.

First, Howard's usual "mommy issues" have risen to the level of neurosis, and clearly this is intentional. The writers have used Bernadette's vocal resemblance to "Mom" in the past, to comedic effect, but never before have they made it so clear that Howard basically married his mother, that Bernadette is fine with that, and that the whole situation is, well, kind of sick.

Second, Leonard's willingness to be walked on by Sheldon has sunk to a new low, and it's getting difficult to continue to believe. As Sheldon has been humanized over the last couple of seasons, as he is shown to be capable of at least intellectually understanding how other people feel, his willingness to be purposefully mean and treat his friends like dirt becomes harder to take. His role in denying Leonard the credit he deserves -- his actual defense of his position that Leonard's contribution was secondary, which is revisionist history if you remember the original episode -- is deliberately hurtful in a way that should no longer be acceptable to his friends as just "Sheldon being Sheldon."

I still enjoy the show and find it funny, in general, but if I do ultimately bail it will be because Sheldon is no longer being portrayed as damaged, but instead as hateful.
Not sure I buy your Sheldon statement. To me they have always shown him, since the beginning, as always having to be right and that he thinks his contribution is so much more important that he should be first, or mentioned first, or be the reason it is the way it is. They have shown this time and time again, with the app they were developing - it had to be Sheldon's way because that was the best way and everyone else was wrong. They also did it with the episode a few seasons ago where Leonard wanted to present at the conference for their paper but Sheldon wouldn't and then crashed the presentation because his way was better.

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post #2951 of 2957 Old 03-17-2015, 06:52 AM
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IMO, the characterization of Sheldon has been evolving from this:

"he's socially maladjusted, emotionally damaged, and treats people the way he does because he's incapable of empathy and doesn't understand common social cues"

to this:

"as he becomes better adjusted due to the warm concern of his friends and loved ones, he's just as arrogant and nasty as ever, but now he knows it, and just doesn't care."

The first guy is someone you can root for. The second guy is someone you want to change the channel on.

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post #2952 of 2957 Old 03-17-2015, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdclark View Post
IMO, the characterization of Sheldon has been evolving from this:

"he's socially maladjusted, emotionally damaged, and treats people the way he does because he's incapable of empathy and doesn't understand common social cues"

to this:

"as he becomes better adjusted due to the warm concern of his friends and loved ones, he's just as arrogant and nasty as ever, but now he knows it, and just doesn't care."

The first guy is someone you can root for. The second guy is someone you want to change the channel on.

Your observations about Sheldon's "evolution" is true. But old habits die hard. His pattern of behavior is ingrained and if it's something that he feels is trivial like other people's feelings, he will act as he always has because in his mind, the other people are overreacting. Eventually, he might come around and realize his error and attempt to make up for it.


Plus, if Sheldon were to change for the better and act more "human", that would take away a major element of the show. At that point, the writers would have to bring in his equally brilliant and nerdy cousin from Oklahoma or something to take on that role. That would be the Jump The Shark moment for this series.
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post #2953 of 2957 Old 03-17-2015, 07:37 AM
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Oh, I agree, and psychoanalyzing fictional sitcom characters, who are necessarily caricatures and not subject to the requirements of realism, is silly. It's about what's entertaining and amusing, which is subjective and variable. I'm just commenting on that. In large part it's the inevitable byproduct of the show's success and longevity.

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post #2954 of 2957 Old 03-17-2015, 10:25 AM
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That last scene with her and Raj in bed and her asking about the closet and if he looked was awesome. Her evil smile was priceless. She knew what it would do to him and then Raj looking at the closet door. Man, to funny.
Just watched this episode last night...lots of small laughs and this ending part was great.

"Dang! You got shocks, pegs... lucky! You ever take it off any sweet jumps? "

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post #2955 of 2957 Old 03-17-2015, 10:29 AM
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If we're going to psychoanalyze a sitcom character . . .

I think it's more the phenomenon of Flanderization.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...Flanderization

Characters have an identifiable trait early on, and as time progresses, that trait is magnified. A la Ned Flanders.

I've been watching early episodes of Everybody Loves Raymond, and they're funny. He's not the whiny little [female dog] that he is in the end. And the wife and mother in law aren't so bad.

Or Joey on Friends. Early on he's an average intelligence ladies man. At the end, the man is too stupid to tie his own shoes.
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post #2956 of 2957 Old 03-17-2015, 09:28 PM
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The show has gone from I can't wait to see it, first thing I watch on my DVR to I'll watch it eventually.... The latest episode solidified it's ranking for me. Poor outing at best. I LIKE character advancement, after 8 years people do change. Yet we get the same Sheldon for the most part. I've always disliked the character and watched the show in spite of him, certainly never for him and last week did nothing to change my mind.
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post #2957 of 2957 Unread Today, 05:13 AM
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IIRC this episode was the opposite of an episode from waaaay back--when Sheldon had an idea and Leonard did the work to prove his theory. Leonard wanted to do a presentation on their work but Sheldon didn't. Sheldon down-played Leonard's contribution as if the theory didn't need proving, because it came from the all-mighty-Sheldon. I sometimes wonder if the writers ever notice when they have characters contradict themselves, and just shrug their shoulders like "oh well".


Some people call it character evolution, but I just see it as inconsistencies.

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