2007 NFL on FOX in HDTV - Week 5 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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The NFL on FOX in HDTV for week 5 include the following games:

1PM
Detroit at Washington
Arizona at St. Louis
Seattle at Pittsburgh
Atlanta at Tennessee
Carolina at New Orleans


4:05PM
Tampa Bay at Indianapolis

All FOX HD games are produced in 720p and 5.1.

All times ET.

Please include your source (call letters and city) and provider (Cable, Sat, OTA, ST).
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post #2 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Sun outages may affect the reliability of the HD feed during the early games this week. The outages usually lasts about 20 or so minutes and will move from west to east across the country.
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post #3 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 09:01 AM
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The outages move from west to east. Here's a calculator.
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post #4 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVOD View Post

The outages move from west to east.

Thanks, my post has been edited.
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post #5 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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DET / WSH on WJBK in Detroit from Comcast. It looks good now, the first 8 minutes of the broadcast were in SD.
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post #6 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 10:20 AM
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Falcons/Titans only in SD here in Atlanta, WAGA-TV.
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post #7 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 10:24 AM
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Frequent audio dropouts in the Seahawks - Steelers game. Watching via Comcast on WPMT.

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post #8 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 10:45 AM
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pittsburgh fox affiliate wpgh (via cable) just dropped to SD at the start of the 2nd quarter.

wtf. i thought only kdka screwed up like this

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post #9 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OggideM View Post

pittsburgh fox affiliate wpgh (via cable) just dropped to SD at the start of the 2nd quarter.

wtf. i thought only kdka screwed up like this

It may be related to a sun outage.
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post #10 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 10:53 AM
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i'm in huntsville, al and i'm getting occasional HD-SD video changes. Probably sun related as mentioned above.

At least its not on CBS. Even the SD feed on my HD OTA channel on fox looks better than any junk CBS normally broadcasts for the titans broadcasts here lol.
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post #11 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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I just saw a gamebreak from the ARZ / STL game. I wonder what problem caused FOX to use the FSN FOX Box look for that game.
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post #12 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 10:59 AM
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I noticed that the CBS game went to SD on KCBS around the same time. Fox is SD on KTTV. There's a lot of artifacts, looks like a SD feed from a satellite service. I don't know if the game started here in HD.

EDIT: Just switched back to HD.
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post #13 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 11:03 AM
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The Lions/Redskins game all of a sudden went to SD in the 2nd quarter... what's going on?
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post #14 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 11:05 AM
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Read the thread, sun outages. It'll be back soon.
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post #15 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tongyang View Post

The Lions/Redskins game all of a sudden went to SD in the 2nd quarter... what's going on?

See the second post, that is the most likely problem.
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post #16 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 11:06 AM
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It's the equinox sun outage blues. There's usually a backup of the SD network on another satellite. When the HD network disappears a station might have to upconvert from the available SD feed.
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post #17 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 11:07 AM
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Only SD for New Orleans and Carolina here in Lexington, SC

OTA

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post #18 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 11:11 AM
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So my quesiton is, why would SD be OK but HD not? Are they not both distributed the same way?

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post #19 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 11:13 AM
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The game just went SD in the New Orleans area also.
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post #20 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vertigo235 View Post

So my quesiton is, why would SD be OK but HD not? Are they not both distributed the same way?

SD is the primary service so they have backup SD on another satellite, that way the sun outage happens at different times, so one feed is always good.
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post #21 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 11:16 AM
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can someone explain what a "sun outage" is.. i'm here in pgh watching the game and like the above posted mentioned it went to SD about 15 min ago. It's still in SD.

How long will this last? i went to the web link to calculate it.. but i would need to know what sat. they are using for the game to calculate this.

Also i'd like to ask the question.. why would a major network put up with such a problem. I mean i know it's a technical problem. But why put up with it.. why can't they find a way around it? Does this just mean that for the rest of time we'll have to deal with lack of HD during certain times? I can't accept that.
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post #22 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homcom View Post

I just saw a gamebreak from the ARZ / STL game. I wonder what problem caused FOX to use the FSN FOX Box look for that game.

It's possible that they had to use the truck from the Kansas/K-State game.
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post #23 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homcom View Post

Sun outages may affect the reliability of the HD feed during the early games this week. The outages usually lasts about 20 or so minutes and will move from west to east across the country.

homcom - can you explain exactly what this "sun outages" is? Just curious. That calculator the guy after you posted is confusing as heck for a neophyte like me. Thanks.

~Bill
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post #24 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 11:19 AM
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Ok so HD is just on one sat and when that goes .. it goes.. that sucks. It feel like networks don't really consider HD that import just yet. When will it be considered mission critical to them? We all have our nice HD set and i'd say about 20% of the time crap like this happens.

I really don't care why.. it just needs to work. And for people who don't understand all this. All they see is that HD isn't reliable, so they don't buy it, and thus HD doesn't get the market that is needs.
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post #25 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danfoley View Post

can someone explain what a "sun outage" is.. i'm here in pgh watching the game and like the above posted mentioned it went to SD about 15 min ago. It's still in SD.

How long will this last? i went to the web link to calculate it.. but i would need to know what sat. they are using for the game to calculate this.

Also i'd like to ask the question.. why would a major network put up with such a problem. I mean i know it's a technical problem. But why put up with it.. why can't they find a way around it? Does this just mean that for the rest of time we'll have to deal with lack of HD during certain times? I can't accept that.

Here is information on what a sun outage is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_outage

When HD becomes the primary service, there will be backups for HD as well. Currently there is only backups for SD.
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post #26 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 11:20 AM
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Skins Lions game still in SD here on the east coast. It's been about 25 minutes so far. How much longer?
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post #27 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danfoley View Post

can someone explain what a "sun outage" is.. i'm here in pgh watching the game and like the above posted mentioned it went to SD about 15 min ago. It's still in SD.

How long will this last? i went to the web link to calculate it.. but i would need to know what sat. they are using for the game to calculate this.

Also i'd like to ask the question.. why would a major network put up with such a problem. I mean i know it's a technical problem. But why put up with it.. why can't they find a way around it? Does this just mean that for the rest of time we'll have to deal with lack of HD during certain times? I can't accept that.

Well, if what the other post said is true, and I have no reason to discredit them.

The network has chosen to backup only the SD feed on another satelite so if the satelite with the HD feed is interupted they do not have redudency for this feed like they do with the SD feed.

I agree this is stupid, almost as stupid as how NBC (I'm pretty sure it's NBC) has some super advanced uplink located in NEW YORK CITY, that doesn't work when it snows. That's what was causing all the issues with the HD feeds during the last olympics.

I mean really, like it NEVER snows in NY?

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post #28 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 11:23 AM
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outage in Pittsburgh (sun related or not) entire 2nd quarter which is far more than 15-20 minutes

*just came back during the commercial as I was typing...

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post #29 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danfoley View Post

can someone explain what a "sun outage" is.. i'm here in pgh watching the game and like the above posted mentioned it went to SD about 15 min ago. It's still in SD.

How long will this last? i went to the web link to calculate it.. but i would need to know what sat. they are using for the game to calculate this.

Also i'd like to ask the question.. why would a major network put up with such a problem. I mean i know it's a technical problem. But why put up with it.. why can't they find a way around it? Does this just mean that for the rest of time we'll have to deal with lack of HD during certain times? I can't accept that.

Most satellites are located on line with the equator, during the months of April and October the sun also moves in line with the equator.
Depending on where you are located, the sun moves behind the satellite and overpowers the signal causing interference, in the digital realm a black screen.

It's too complex to move signals around to avoid the outages. They only last 10-15 minutes, and in most areas for a period within those months 7-10 days.
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post #30 of 49 Old 10-07-2007, 11:26 AM
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HD feeds take alot more bandwidth than SD and therefore are more costly to backup. This is really complicated by having multiple games on at the same time. The reality is that the money still comes from the SD feeds, and the outage is usually less than 10 min.

In digital the feed will usually start to stutter and then either freeze or goes to black. Even before then one can see the Eb/No start to decrease. In analog it gradually fades away to noise and then fades back.

The satellites used by CBS and Fox are close to the same orbital slot.
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