Joss Whedon's 'Dollhouse' w/ Eliza Dushku on FOX - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 2557 Old 03-09-2009, 12:00 PM
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Although it seems likely that Echo is central to Alpha's plan, whatever it may be, I can't imagine that he is anything but a villain. He has spilled too much blood for it to be otherwise, it seems to me.

I had forgotten about Liza Lapira's appearances in the late lamented Huff. That was a terrific series, which I hated to see end. Any series featuring both Blythe Danner and Oliver Platt deserves better treatment than Huff received at HBO's hands.
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post #452 of 2557 Old 03-09-2009, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Although it seems likely that Echo is central to Alpha's plan, whatever it may be, I can't imagine that he is anything but a villain. He has spilled too much blood for it to be otherwise, it seems to me.

I had forgotten about Liza Lapira's appearances in the late lamented Huff. That was a terrific series, which I hated to see end. Any series featuring both Blythe Danner and Oliver Platt deserves better treatment than Huff received at HBO's hands.

It was Showtime, and I hated to see 'Dead Like Me' get the ax after two seasons on Showtime, HBO pulled the plug on Deadwood arrrggghhh.
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post #453 of 2557 Old 03-09-2009, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Although it seems likely that Echo is central to Alpha's plan, whatever it may be, I can't imagine that he is anything but a villain. He has spilled too much blood for it to be otherwise, it seems to me.

I had forgotten about Liza Lapira's appearances in the late lamented Huff. That was a terrific series, which I hated to see end. Any series featuring both Blythe Danner and Oliver Platt deserves better treatment than Huff received at HBO's hands.

It was Showtime, but yes, that was excellent TV with a great cast.

Lots of valid comments here about why Dollhouse doesn't work, VisionOn's comments about the lack of personality is the biggest I think, there just aren't any characters for the viewer to get invested in since they change their personality every week, For viewers to return every week, they need someone to "hang on" to, and so far, there isn't anyone in this show.

The bits with Dushku in various stages of undress really have to stop if this show is going gain any credibility, so far, it's been the Eliza Dushku soft-porn hour. I'm sure many will consider it harsh, but this show isn't that much better than the Saturday night movies on SciFi Channel.

I'm sticking around until that epiphanous Ep 6, but it will really have to be something spectacular to pull this one off the cutting block.
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post #454 of 2557 Old 03-09-2009, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by rebkell View Post

It was Showtime, and I hated to see 'Dead Like Me' get the ax after two seasons on Showtime, HBO pulled the plug on Deadwood arrrggghhh.

I couldn't remember whether it was Showtime or HBO and I did a quick Google search for "Huff HBO" in order to find out but misread the results. Doh!
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post #455 of 2557 Old 03-09-2009, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by keenan View Post

The bits with Dushku in various stages of undress really have to stop if this show is going gain any credibility, so far, it's been the Eliza Dushku soft-porn hour. I'm sure many will consider it harsh, but this show isn't that much better than the Saturday night movies on SciFi Channel.

Keep 'em coming IMO

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post #456 of 2557 Old 03-09-2009, 02:24 PM
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Concerning the miraculous escape from the antiquities storage room:

The injured guy tells her "Around the corner, you can get out - they won't be able to see you" and throws a smoke grenade through the door. They run out the door through the smoke and go around the corner. And "around the corner" isn't some new area, its the same hallway they blasted into from the security office.

This really isn't worth a whole lot of agonizing over, since the disbelief involved here is minimal compared to some of the other things we are expected to accept, but it is 1. a sorry sort of security solution to have a room with a bigass timelock door that you could easily just blow a hole in the wall and get into, and 2. it is a particularly sorry bunch of thieves who are frantic to escape this place they are trapped in but managed to overlook a big hole in the back. If you can explain away problem two you are still left with problem one.

And don't even try saying they got past the cops or whoever they were under the cover of a smoke bomb or two by going out the vault door.

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post #457 of 2557 Old 03-09-2009, 04:21 PM
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4 eps in...it's not awful...ok, maybe it is. The Topher character (or maybe it's just the actor) is nails across the blackboard. The overall story has potential, but each ep has been shallow and certainly not aimed at my demographic. I don't find the females hot, just passable. The Echo character really needs someone with some chops to pull this off and I just don't see much there in ED. I'm out...

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #458 of 2557 Old 03-10-2009, 01:33 AM
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I have to agree. Big difference, ED was 17 years old when she appeared in Buffy, and now she's 29, and stretching to play a younger character. I'm bailing on the series, too - not because of ED, but because Whedon's simply lost it.

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post #459 of 2557 Old 03-10-2009, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaded Dogfood View Post

Concerning the miraculous escape from the antiquities storage room:

The injured guy tells her "Around the corner, you can get out - they won't be able to see you" and throws a smoke grenade through the door. They run out the door through the smoke and go around the corner. And "around the corner" isn't some new area, its the same hallway they blasted into from the security office.

This really isn't worth a whole lot of agonizing over, since the disbelief involved here is minimal compared to some of the other things we are expected to accept, but it is 1. a sorry sort of security solution to have a room with a bigass timelock door that you could easily just blow a hole in the wall and get into, and 2. it is a particularly sorry bunch of thieves who are frantic to escape this place they are trapped in but managed to overlook a big hole in the back. If you can explain away problem two you are still left with problem one.

And don't even try saying they got past the cops or whoever they were under the cover of a smoke bomb or two by going out the vault door.

There was a hole in the wall but I don't think it was into the vault.

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post #460 of 2557 Old 03-10-2009, 05:07 AM
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Yep, remember that she had to open the vault door via two combo locks, so the blown 'alley' was into the area in front of the vault. One of the thieves mentioned an air shaft as a way out at some point while they were in the vault. But that doesn't explain how they got back out the way they came in.

Not a big plot hole, but not inconsequential.
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post #461 of 2557 Old 03-10-2009, 05:19 AM
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Maybe it's just leftover paranoia from NCIS, but I'm betting Alpha's mole inside the Dollhouse is Ivy/Liza Lapira/NCIS Special Agent Michelle Lee.
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post #462 of 2557 Old 03-10-2009, 06:22 AM
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Yeah, i think Alpha knows what it takes to break the programming and is pushing her in ways that will force it to happen.
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post #463 of 2557 Old 03-10-2009, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtwstr View Post

Yeah, i think Alpha knows what it takes to break the programming and is pushing her in ways that will force it to happen.

That does seem likely.

- Tom

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post #464 of 2557 Old 03-13-2009, 04:09 PM
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DollHouse tonight!
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Let the carping begin!
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post #466 of 2557 Old 03-13-2009, 04:18 PM
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Hey, that's how we roll.
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post #467 of 2557 Old 03-14-2009, 07:55 AM
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Just a quick technical aside about the show...

For those who might be capturing this show, have you seen a significant decrease in the bitrate and/or filesize? Though the last 3 episodes have all run a little over 50 minutes at a reported bitrate around 20MB, they've gone from just under 6GB to a little over 4GB. Is this perhaps more of the bitrate throttling we have been expecting to see (in this case Comcast Chicago)?
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post #468 of 2557 Old 03-14-2009, 09:44 AM
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Thought it was a decent episode, if the previews aren't a total jerk around, next week looks like all hell is about to break loose at the Dollhouse, what is the guy that I guess is second in command at the dollhouse, what's his beef with Echo?

I'm thinking the whole thing is going to get on a roll after next week, which would fall in line with the 6th episode is when it starts getting with the program and Joss really does his thing.
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post #469 of 2557 Old 03-14-2009, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiernan View Post

Just a quick technical aside about the show...

For those who might be capturing this show, have you seen a significant decrease in the bitrate and/or filesize? Though the last 3 episodes have all run a little over 50 minutes at a reported bitrate around 20MB, they've gone from just under 6GB to a little over 4GB. Is this perhaps more of the bitrate throttling we have been expecting to see (in this case Comcast Chicago)?


Here are some file sizes from Vista Media Center dvr-ms shows, for some Fox recorded shows: (Comcast, Athens, TN(Chattanooga WDSI-DT))
Code:
02/27/2009  10:01 PM     7,550,949,447 Terminator- The Sarah Connor Chronicles_WDSIDT_27_02_2009_19_58_02.dvr-ms
03/07/2009  03:08 AM     6,488,078,403 Terminator- The Sarah Connor Chronicles_WDSIDT_06_03_2009_19_58_01.dvr-ms
03/13/2009  09:01 PM     6,666,778,765 Terminator- The Sarah Connor Chronicles_WDSIDT_13_03_2009_19_58_01.dvr-ms

02/27/2009  11:03 PM     7,460,140,401 Dollhouse_WDSIDT_27_02_2009_21_01_02.dvr-ms
03/06/2009  11:03 PM     5,027,099,977 Dollhouse_WDSIDT_06_03_2009_21_01_02.dvr-ms
03/13/2009  10:03 PM     5,536,290,099 Dollhouse_WDSIDT_13_03_2009_21_01_02.dvr-ms

03/12/2009  09:53 PM     7,048,846,897 Bones_WDSIDT_12_03_2009_19_58_01.dvr-ms

03/09/2009  09:00 PM     6,892,582,203 House_WDSIDT_09_03_2009_19_58_02.dvr-ms
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Funniest line involving the Word of the Lord: "Move your a**es!
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post #471 of 2557 Old 03-14-2009, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by petergaryr View Post

Funniest line involving the Word of the Lord: "Move your a**es!

That jibes with the home videos of Echo, that showed she had a potty mouth before she took the job.

The subplot the "Man Reaction" the male active had in the shower was funny too. Making Topher review all the old tapes looking for possible erections, lol hillarious.

I really think Eliza is an underrated actress, she has to play a different character every week, while still playing the base "Echo", I think shes doing great! her face has good expressive range, I like the subtle emotions she can show, like when the Doctor asked her how her vision was, after the implant.
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post #472 of 2557 Old 03-14-2009, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by rebkell View Post


I'm thinking the whole thing is going to get on a roll after next week, which would fall in line with the 6th episode is when it starts getting with the program and Joss really does his thing.

I hope so as that scene with Topher trying to explain to the doctor that one of the dolls had an erection about sent me over the edge, I had my thumb twitching over the delete button the whole time. Is the Topher character about 6 years old? The guy's supposedly a genius, and appears to be at least late 20's and he has trouble explaining what he saw? It was just beyond stupid and ridiculous.

Also, I'd have to replay it, but the scene where FBI guy sees Echo running on TV didn't seem right as she was carried out by handler guy during the fire at night. Maybe it was "TV footage" shot earlier, but it also looked like she could see at that point, except she was supposed to be still "blind".

You have to love preview promo, "forget everything you've learned about Dollhouse as next week everything changes", or something to that effect. I guess we should have just started watching the show at Ep 6?

I'm continuing to watch because of the creator's track record, but this show has to improve dramatically for me to continue with it. I think what might salvage it is if Echo were to somehow recover/retain her own personality while also performing what ever imprint she's given, at least that way we've have a character to hang on to, someone to get invested in. That might also give ED a chance to focus in on her acting skills because so far, she's been a mediocre actress at best.
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post #473 of 2557 Old 03-14-2009, 12:17 PM
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I thought that was a better episode than past ones save the sub plot that was introduced and didn't seem to fit. Probably filler for to bring the episode up to 44 minutes. Actually I don't think Eliza is that much of an actress at all. She rather pales by comparison with some of the seasoned character actors on the show.
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post #474 of 2557 Old 03-14-2009, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post

I thought that was a better episode than past ones save the sub plot that was introduced and didn't seem to fit. Probably filler for to bring the episode up to 44 minutes. Actually I don't think Eliza is that much of an actress at all. She rather pales by comparison with some of the seasoned character actors on the show.

I agree. A bit of Googling reveals that this is actually a vanity project for Dushku. She has a production deal with FOX and this is what came of it. The story is Whedon's, but there was no chance that a different actress would have been cast for the part, it was going to be Dushku all the way. In my opinion, this often results in not very good TV.

IOW, another actor in the lead role may have made all the difference, although we'll never know.
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post #475 of 2557 Old 03-14-2009, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

You have to love preview promo, "forget everything you've learned about Dollhouse as next week everything changes", or something to that effect. I guess we should have just started watching the show at Ep 6?

I only watched the last ten minutes this week and by all accounts wouldn't have learned much more than last week or the week before by watching the full hour. So that should make forgetting everything you've learned pretty easy.

The preview for next week does allude to some kind of formula shake-up so I might watch that. If Echo finally breaks and starts fighting back against the organization that might get me back.

But if at the end Echo asks if she fell asleep and then wanders aimlessly off into the Matrix dojo for a snack, I'll be officially giving up. And for a supposedly Whedon-created show, that will be a first for me.


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post #476 of 2557 Old 03-14-2009, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebkell View Post

Here are some file sizes from Vista Media Center dvr-ms shows, for some Fox recorded shows: (Comcast, Athens, TN(Chattanooga WDSI-DT))
Code:
02/27/2009  10:01 PM     7,550,949,447 Terminator- The Sarah Connor Chronicles_WDSIDT_27_02_2009_19_58_02.dvr-ms
03/07/2009  03:08 AM     6,488,078,403 Terminator- The Sarah Connor Chronicles_WDSIDT_06_03_2009_19_58_01.dvr-ms
03/13/2009  09:01 PM     6,666,778,765 Terminator- The Sarah Connor Chronicles_WDSIDT_13_03_2009_19_58_01.dvr-ms

02/27/2009  11:03 PM     7,460,140,401 Dollhouse_WDSIDT_27_02_2009_21_01_02.dvr-ms
03/06/2009  11:03 PM     5,027,099,977 Dollhouse_WDSIDT_06_03_2009_21_01_02.dvr-ms
03/13/2009  10:03 PM     5,536,290,099 Dollhouse_WDSIDT_13_03_2009_21_01_02.dvr-ms

03/12/2009  09:53 PM     7,048,846,897 Bones_WDSIDT_12_03_2009_19_58_01.dvr-ms

03/09/2009  09:00 PM     6,892,582,203 House_WDSIDT_09_03_2009_19_58_02.dvr-ms

03/04/2009 6,117,916,492 Dollhouse - 103 - 2009-02-27 - Stage Fright.ts
03/10/2009 3,660,091,536 Dollhouse - 104 - 2009-03-06 - Gray Hour.ts
03/13/2009 4,308,484,172 Dollhouse - 105 - 2009-03-13 - True Believer.ts

Thanks for the follow-up Rebkell. I looked again, and I see that last weeks episode was even smaller (these are muxed mpeg-2 transport streams captured direct from the box). I should also have pointed out, these filesizes are program only (with commercial break bumpers). It certainly doesnt look good for the quality of what we're receiving locally if the filesizes can be this small, and vascilate so wildly.
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post #477 of 2557 Old 03-14-2009, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post

I thought that was a better episode than past ones save the sub plot that was introduced and didn't seem to fit. Probably filler for to bring the episode up to 44 minutes. Actually I don't think Eliza is that much of an actress at all. She rather pales by comparison with some of the seasoned character actors on the show.


Totally agree. She's listed as a producer and she got Whedon to write the show for her. She can't act her way out of a wet paper bag, but tv execs know she will draw some of an audience based on looks alone.
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post #478 of 2557 Old 03-14-2009, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiernan View Post

03/04/2009 6,117,916,492 Dollhouse - 103 - 2009-02-27 - Stage Fright.ts
03/10/2009 3,660,091,536 Dollhouse - 104 - 2009-03-06 - Gray Hour.ts
03/13/2009 4,308,484,172 Dollhouse - 105 - 2009-03-13 - True Believer.ts

Thanks for the follow-up Rebkell. I looked again, and I see that last weeks episode was even smaller (these are muxed mpeg-2 transport streams captured direct from the box). I should also have pointed out, these filesizes are program only (with commercial break bumpers). It certainly doesnt look good for the quality of what we're receiving locally if the filesizes can be this small, and vascilate so wildly.

The ones I listed are raw, commercials and all, with probably 2 to 4 minutes padding by Media Center, one note on the week before, the local Fox was having a lot of problems and there was a nearly two minute complete signal dropout during Dollhouse, they had a lot of transmission problems throughout both TSCC and Dollhouse, this week seemed to be pretty much solid during both shows.
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post #479 of 2557 Old 03-14-2009, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR_IN_LA View Post

That jibes with the home videos of Echo, that showed she had a potty mouth before she took the job.

The subplot the "Man Reaction" the male active had in the shower was funny too. Making Topher review all the old tapes looking for possible erections, lol hillarious.

I really think Eliza is an underrated actress, she has to play a different character every week, while still playing the base "Echo", I think shes doing great! her face has good expressive range, I like the subtle emotions she can show, like when the Doctor asked her how her vision was, after the implant.

Oh yeah, those scenes with Topher were great.

I also tend to agree with Eliza's acting ability. While she's not the most accomplished actor I ever seen, her ability to morph into a new (believable) personality each week is a challenging one. I give her credit that so far she's done a pretty good job of it.
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post #480 of 2557 Old 03-14-2009, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiernan View Post

03/04/2009 6,117,916,492 Dollhouse - 103 - 2009-02-27 - Stage Fright.ts
03/10/2009 3,660,091,536 Dollhouse - 104 - 2009-03-06 - Gray Hour.ts
03/13/2009 4,308,484,172 Dollhouse - 105 - 2009-03-13 - True Believer.ts

Here are those three from Bright House Networks in Michigan after all the commercials are removed and cut down to just the show:

103 - 5.56GB (5,980,346,364 bytes)
104 - 3.38GB (3,635,385,140 bytes)
105 - 3.98GB (4,280,263,680 bytes)
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