WGA (writers') Strike - where shows stand - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 248 Old 11-09-2007, 11:55 AM
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I've cleared the post title. Anyway, according to dictionary.com

can·cel /ˈkænsəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kan-suhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -celed, -cel·ing or (especially British) -celled, -cel·ling, noun
-verb (used with object)
1. to make void; revoke; annul: to cancel a reservation.
2. to decide or announce that a planned event will not take place; call off: to cancel a meeting.
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post #92 of 248 Old 11-09-2007, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckytwn View Post

As far as it being a mistake or not, I don't see how it's a mistake. How can they run 8 hours of 24 and then have it just stop in the middle of the story with no clue as to when the storyline might be resolved?

They can build in an angle where they slip him a sleeping pill.

I wonder how many shows with not a lot of viewers will get canceled because of this if it goes on long?

HEY, you viewing dumbasses!

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post #93 of 248 Old 11-09-2007, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santaclaus View Post

For anyone exposed to one-sided info of the WGA strike from traditional media outlets (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, etc.) should read the following from Bill Scheft, head writer for David Letterman, who wrote the following in alt.fan.letterman:

Thanks for posting this letter. As an IP lawyer I am familiar with the issues/landscape and completely support the writers. It makes perfect sense that as the networks find ways to make more money via new outlets ("new media"), that writers get residuals for shows aired in new media.

And if anything, in the media I've still only heard the WGA side of it. What is the position of the networks? Simply that they are just being greedy bastards who think that just because they come up with the idea to sell shows on itunes or have them free on cbs innertube.com or abc.com (With ads!), that somehow people who write the content shouldn't get compensation?

If the networks have a credible argument, I'd love to hear it, but so far I haven't heard a peep about their side.
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post #94 of 248 Old 11-09-2007, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeromeS View Post

I've cleared the post title. Anyway, according to dictionary.com

can·cel /ˈkænsəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kan-suhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -celed, -cel·ing or (especially British) -celled, -cel·ling, noun
-verb (used with object)
1. to make void; revoke; annul: to cancel a reservation.
2. to decide or announce that a planned event will not take place; call off: to cancel a meeting.

Nothing here has been called off. The episodes will still air just not when originally planned.

Plus, as already noted "canceled" as it pertains to the TV industry is a specific industry term.
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post #95 of 248 Old 11-09-2007, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mx6bfast View Post

They can build in an angle where they slip him a sleeping pill.

I wonder how many shows with not a lot of viewers will get canceled because of this if it goes on long?

It could actually have the reverse effect if it goes on long enough to impact pilot season. In that scenario, there is a belief that the networks would just bring back most of this season's shows.

That would also have an added benefit of saving a lot of money for the networks because pilot season costs hundreds of millions of dollars.
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post #96 of 248 Old 11-09-2007, 02:40 PM
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Interesting take on the WGA Strike at http://www.filmstew.com/showArticle....ontentID=16614

"At best, a WGA writer currently collects four cents for each DVD of his or her work sold. Here's what that buys you in Lalaland."

alinski...
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post #97 of 248 Old 11-09-2007, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alinski View Post

Interesting take on the WGA Strike at http://www.filmstew.com/showArticle....ontentID=16614

"At best, a WGA writer currently collects four cents for each DVD of his or her work sold. Here's what that buys you in Lalaland."

alinski...

Old news - the WGA has already dropped that part of the negotiations. They won't get anything more on DVD revenue this time around. They're still fighting for "new media" compensation, though.
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post #98 of 248 Old 11-09-2007, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckytwn View Post

That would also have an added benefit of saving a lot of money for the networks because pilot season costs hundreds of millions of dollars.

Well... if the networks shut down all of their operations today, they could save billions of dollars!

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post #99 of 248 Old 11-09-2007, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Old news - the WGA has already dropped that part of the negotiations. They won't get anything more on DVD revenue this time around. They're still fighting for "new media" compensation, though.

One of the articles linked to in the "Hot Off The Press" thread indicated that DVD residuals would be back on the table. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...s#post12155508

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post #100 of 248 Old 11-10-2007, 04:34 AM
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NBC to Lay Off Leno Staff Next Week; Guest Hosts Could Save Jobs

NBC Tells Nonwriting Tonight Show Staffers They'll Be Laid Off at End of Next Week in Wake of WGA Strike, But Guest Hosts Could Bring Show Back Nov. 19 and Save Those Jobs -- Late Night with Conan O'Brien Staff in Same Situation

By Ben Grossman -- Broadcasting & Cable, 11/9/2007 3:57:00 PM

NBC informed the nonwriting staff of The Tonight Show with Jay Leno that it will be laid off at the end of next week in the wake of the show shutting down for the writers' strike.
Jay Leno

And with Leno still refusing to cross the picket line, the show is looking at coming back on the air Nov. 19 with guest hosts so that it can save the jobs of the nonwriters.

All sorts of things are being discussed, including guest hosts, Tonight Show executive producer Debbie Vickers said. Our preference is that we return to production of The Tonight Show with Jay as host as soon as possible.

B&C also learned that the same timetable has been given to the staff of NBC's Late Night with Conan O'Brien. That show's nonwriters also face layoffs at the end of the week of Nov. 12.

But Vickers also wants to save the jobs of her nonwriting staffers.

We want to protect the staff, who have been loyal to this show for decades, in the same way that Johnny Carson reluctantly returned without his writers in 1988, she said.

Late-night shows have gone into repeats since the strike began Monday as the hosts walked out in solidarity with their writing staffs.

With the shows shut down, networks can cut costs by laying off most of the rest of the staff.

And Leno's chief writer doesn't expect Leno back anytime soon.

I talk to Jay every day, and he will not be the first [late-night host] to cross the picket line, said Tonight Show head writer Joe Medeiros, also a strike captain for the Writers Guild of America. So they are looking at guest hosts as one possibility so all those people don't have to lose their jobs.

Medeiros on Friday expressed anger at NBC for pulling the plug on the staff so quickly.

This is the way that NBC treats the No. 1 late-night talk show that makes them $50 million a year and has been No. 1 for 12 years? he said, noting that NBC even turned off his NBC e-mail account.

Even prior to the strike taking effect, many knew that the nonwriting late-night show staff members from all networks would probably begin to see layoffs within two to three weeks if their hosts did not resume their on-air duties.

The hosts are compelled to return without their writing staffs to save the jobs of all of the nonwriters, which can number more than 100 per show.

There is precedent for hosts to come back sans writers, as Johnny Carson and David Letterman both did during the 1988 strike.

Medeiros also spoke in animated fashion about NBC's decision to replace Leno with Conan O'Brien in 2009.

And all this after they already kicked the man out the door, Medeiros said.

CBS has already said that The Late Show with David Letterman will remain in repeats the week of Nov. 12.

ABC's Jimmy Kimmel Live continues to run in repeats, as its host has backed the writers not only by stepping aside, but even driving a taco truck around to picket sites in Los Angeles. Leno has also been a constant presence at picketing around town.

For a gallery of photos from the picket line, click here.

For full coverage of the strike, click here.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/CA6499587.html

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post #101 of 248 Old 11-12-2007, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Link to a guy at TV Guide who has done the additional math involved in figuring how many shows remain given not just the shows left that are written/produced - but how many have aired:

http://community.tvguide.com/blog-en...hart/800026937
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post #102 of 248 Old 11-14-2007, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herdfan View Post

From what I have read it stems from a disagreement about how to allocate the revenue from "other" media such as DVD sales and online viewing.

Example: Currently, they get $.036 from a $15 DVD of a show and they want $.072 per $15 DVD.

Not quite right...it's .04 on a $20 DVD...they took a pay cut on video nearly 2 decades ago with the understanding that it would increase once the studios got their 'business model' in order. Of course they never did and have made billions in the interim. Now the producers want to apply that same pay cut to internet media.

The writers want that pay cut rectifiied by doubling it and applying that same % to new media as well. I think that's fair.

I'm no expert....so your mileage may vary
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post #103 of 248 Old 11-14-2007, 02:16 PM
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Actually it is my belief that the writers are the most underpaid in Hollywood. The success of a show is more dependent on its writers and less on its actors. The actors are just more visable.

There is a side benefit of paying the writers more and the actors less. When Hollywood throws around money on causes. The people doing the throwing would have ideas and not be airheads.

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post #104 of 248 Old 11-14-2007, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_R View Post

There is a side benefit of paying the writers more and the actors less. When Hollywood throws around money on causes. The people doing the throwing would have ideas and not be airheads.

I believe that most actors who adopt worthy "causes" do so because they've researched the matter and feel strongly that lending their celebrity to the cause will give it needed publicity. They're no smarter or more stupid than anyone else (Paris Hilton and her ilk excepted) and it's ridiculous to label them that way. They undoubtedly feel they're doing the right thing, same as anyone else who champions a worthy cause. At least they're doing something to try to make the world a better place, unlike those who do nothing but hurl insults at them. To lump them all together and call them "airheads" is really a pretty airheaded comment.
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post #105 of 248 Old 11-14-2007, 02:38 PM
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Maybe I'm missing something here but here's how I see this. I don't think the writers should get residuals at all. We don't pay software developers residuals for the software they write. Now I don't know if the writers are underpaid or not, but I feel they should negotiate either an hourly rate or flat fee like all the other people in this country. The other thing I see with unions in general is they promote mediocrity. You need some competition to push you to be the best you can be.
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post #106 of 248 Old 11-14-2007, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by lvthunder View Post

Maybe I'm missing something here but here's how I see this. I don't think the writers should get residuals at all. We don't pay software developers residuals for the software they write.

I don't think this is a good comparison. Shows and songs are completed and the writer's job is done. Software is often in endless development and that leads to complicated issues. For example should a software engineer who we fired last year still get residuals from our product after I've ripped out a huge chunk of his horrific code out of our product?

Oh, uh, that was a completely hypothetical example of course.

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post #107 of 248 Old 11-14-2007, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by lvthunder View Post

Maybe I'm missing something here but here's how I see this. I don't think the writers should get residuals at all. We don't pay software developers residuals for the software they write. Now I don't know if the writers are underpaid or not, but I feel they should negotiate either an hourly rate or flat fee like all the other people in this country. The other thing I see with unions in general is they promote mediocrity. You need some competition to push you to be the best you can be.

The model is different from the others you're familiar with. Writers wouldn't make it without residuals, since their jobs are intermittent, often with long periods between paying gigs. You have to make at least $30k a year to qualify for health care and fully half of the guild members never even make it to that level. You should do a little more research into their situation before you make comparisons with other fields that aren't valid.
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post #108 of 248 Old 11-14-2007, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvthunder View Post

Maybe I'm missing something here but here's how I see this. I don't think the writers should get residuals at all. We don't pay software developers residuals for the software they write. Now I don't know if the writers are underpaid or not, but I feel they should negotiate either an hourly rate or flat fee like all the other people in this country. The other thing I see with unions in general is they promote mediocrity. You need some competition to push you to be the best you can be.

There's a difference between works of fiction and software...that's not an apples to oranges comparison. Most corporate software is developed by a HUGE team of programmers, each of whom tackle a specific task. They are paid to do that task only.

That might be the case on a very few programs/movies, but for the most part it is one or two people who envision EVERYTHING from start to finish. Very had to film a blank page. Most studio execs couldn't write their way out of a wet bag. Their 'talent' is recognizing talent in others and backing projects financially.

I think that studios should get the bulk of the profits...they provide the $$ and take the risk. The writers are currently getting a percentage of percentage that works out to LESS than pennies on the dollar.

Novelists are paid residuals, musicians are paid residuals...what's the difference?

For a better explanation of what the writers are striking for, see this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ55Ir2jCxk

I'm no expert....so your mileage may vary
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post #109 of 248 Old 11-14-2007, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

The model is different from the others you're familiar with. Writers wouldn't make it without residuals, since their jobs are intermittent, often with long periods between paying gigs. You have to make at least $30k a year to qualify for health care and fully half of the guild members never even make it to that level. You should do a little more research into their situation before you make comparisons with other fields that aren't valid.

Well if they are out of work for long periods of time or aren't making enough money maybe they should find another line of work. It's supply and demand. I just don't think you should get paid for your entire life for something you did once unless you own it. The writers don't own the TV show or movie the studios do. They should pay the writers a fee to write the show. Now that fee could (and probably should) be a lot more then what they make now. That should be on a case by case basis.
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post #110 of 248 Old 11-14-2007, 06:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvthunder View Post

Maybe I'm missing something here but here's how I see this. I don't think the writers should get residuals at all. We don't pay software developers residuals for the software they write. Now I don't know if the writers are underpaid or not, but I feel they should negotiate either an hourly rate or flat fee like all the other people in this country. The other thing I see with unions in general is they promote mediocrity. You need some competition to push you to be the best you can be.

I think this is a great analogy and a very strong argument against the writers' perspective.
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post #111 of 248 Old 11-14-2007, 06:57 PM
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As a software developer I think it is a very good agument for me to get residuals on my more creative work. But I'm not holding my breath waiting for it.

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post #112 of 248 Old 11-14-2007, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvthunder View Post

Well if they are out of work for long periods of time or aren't making enough money maybe they should find another line of work. It's supply and demand. I just don't think you should get paid for your entire life for something you did once unless you own it. The writers don't own the TV show or movie the studios do. They should pay the writers a fee to write the show. Now that fee could (and probably should) be a lot more then what they make now. That should be on a case by case basis.

I agree. The writers should be paid more-- a lot more.

However, even though I tend to agree with you, it's difficult to defend the point that the owner of the product has the right to continue to profit with no strings attached.

The reason this is difficult to defend is due to how the economics are currently structured. You cannot continue to give residuals to some, sayactors- and then, not offer a fair annuity to the writer.

There also can be cases made for paying residuals to other artisans (involved with production) who possess creative talents and are integral to the final product- Directors, Cinematographers, Editors-- to name three professions. Where does it stop?

This is a tough topic. The bottom line is the writers deserve more money but it should come out of the current kitty. Unfortunately, I know there will be more fingers grabbing through my pockets.

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post #113 of 248 Old 11-14-2007, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvthunder View Post

Well if they are out of work for long periods of time or aren't making enough money maybe they should find another line of work. It's supply and demand. I just don't think you should get paid for your entire life for something you did once unless you own it. The writers don't own the TV show or movie the studios do. They should pay the writers a fee to write the show. Now that fee could (and probably should) be a lot more then what they make now. That should be on a case by case basis.

Do you apply this same reasoning to authors and song writers? After all, they also tend to depend on a stream of ongoing payments from published works, and I suspect that is where the model for payment for script writers came from.

For that matter, how do you feel about the corporations continuing to profit from old works that are under copyright for year after year? After all, if it is wrong for writers to profit from work that they did once for year after year, why is it somehow appropriate for Disney to continue profiting from work that was done 70 or 80 years ago?

It just seems like this is a substantially more complex issue than you seem to acknowledge in your posts...
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post #114 of 248 Old 11-14-2007, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Desmond View Post

..is it somehow appropriate for Disney to continue profiting from work that was done 70 or 80 years ago?

Well the simple answer to that is yes-- Disney owns it.
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It just seems like this is a substantially more complex issue than you seem to acknowledge in your posts...

Yes it is.

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post #115 of 248 Old 11-14-2007, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Iteki View Post


Novelists are paid residuals, musicians are paid residuals...what's the difference?

For a better explanation of what the writers are striking for, see this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ55Ir2jCxk

I don't think any of them should get residuals unless they forked over some cash to get the project off the ground.

I watched the video. Too me it sounds like there are too many writers if 48% of them are unemployed. Why should they get paid for something they did 20 years ago. I'm a civil engineer. If a flood happens and wipes out a building and they decide to rebuild it using the same plans as before I don't get paid again.
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post #116 of 248 Old 11-14-2007, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Desmond View Post

...how do you feel about the corporations continuing to profit from old works that are under copyright for year after year? After all, if it is wrong for writers to profit from work that they did once for year after year, why is it somehow appropriate for Disney to continue profiting from work that was done 70 or 80 years ago?

They are spending stockholders moneynew money not 70 or 80 years old cash-- promoting and marketing a product bought and paid for.

Larry

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post #117 of 248 Old 11-14-2007, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Desmond View Post

Do you apply this same reasoning to authors and song writers? After all, they also tend to depend on a stream of ongoing payments from published works, and I suspect that is where the model for payment for script writers came from.

For that matter, how do you feel about the corporations continuing to profit from old works that are under copyright for year after year? After all, if it is wrong for writers to profit from work that they did once for year after year, why is it somehow appropriate for Disney to continue profiting from work that was done 70 or 80 years ago?

It just seems like this is a substantially more complex issue than you seem to acknowledge in your posts...

Yes the same applies to authors and song writers, and actors, and performers too. Unless you have a financial interest in what you are creating I don't think you should get residuals. If you do have a financial interest I think it's OK. I don't really like the current copyright law. I think stuff stays copyrighted way too long. A lot of the time you can't even find who the copyright holder is until your handed a lawsuit.

It is a complex issue. I know Hollywood doesn't give a rats ass about what I think so I just hope they get this resolved soon and don't pass the increases to me. I feel I pay enough for content already.
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post #118 of 248 Old 11-14-2007, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by lvthunder View Post

Yes the same applies to authors and song writers, and actors, and performers too. Unless you have a financial interest in what you are creating I don't think you should get residuals.

If they get residuals/royalies then by definition they have a financial interest in what they're creating.

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post #119 of 248 Old 11-15-2007, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvthunder View Post

I don't think any of them should get residuals unless they forked over some cash to get the project off the ground.

I watched the video. Too me it sounds like there are too many writers if 48% of them are unemployed. Why should they get paid for something they did 20 years ago. I'm a civil engineer. If a flood happens and wipes out a building and they decide to rebuild it using the same plans as before I don't get paid again.

LOL this conversation is starting to sound like the "I don't believe in tipping" conversation from Reservoir Dogs. :-)

I'm no expert....so your mileage may vary
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post #120 of 248 Old 11-15-2007, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scowl View Post

If they get residuals/royalies then by definition they have a financial interest in what they're creating.

By financial interest I mean they put up some of the money to create the show.
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