Enough with all the clutter (graphics) on my HD screen! - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 3300 Old 07-19-2008, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clev12 View Post

Maybe I'm blissfully ignorant but I recently upgraded to HDTV and between OTA broadcasts and TWC, I haven't noticed these pop-ups/clutter.

Do you open your eyes when you watch TV?

HEY, you viewing dumbasses!

NOW!
NEW!
ALL NEW!

(insert name of show here)
NEXT!
8/9 PM ET
TUESDAY!
NEXT WEEK!
IN 2 WEEKS!


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post #812 of 3300 Old 07-19-2008, 04:32 PM
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Do you open your eyes when you watch TV?

Besides my heart, soul and mind? Yes.

I've never seen an ad on HDTV, over-the-air or through digital cable (which I watch through a STB, as opposed to a cablecard). Maybe it's a cablecard thing?

(On news broadcasts, there's a lot of random, flashy graphics that I always assumed was to protect the screen for plasma TVs).
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post #813 of 3300 Old 07-19-2008, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clev12 View Post

Maybe it's a cablecard thing?

It has nothing to do with the delivery or reception method, it's embedded in the video.
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post #814 of 3300 Old 07-19-2008, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by nickdawg View Post

No!! I liked the way it was about two years ago: letterboxed with the small, transparent bug in the right corner. What I hate is the current letterboxing WITH a 4x3 safe bug. It looks ridiculous.

Ah, understand. 4:3 safe bugs are just plain wrong in the first place. The reasons they are there have been pointed out in the postings.

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Or do the best thing of all: no bugs, no snipes shown in letterbox!

Instead of complaining to the networks, who have closed their eyes and ears to the viewers, it looks like we need to bitch at the advertisers. Let them know that we will not buy products from companies who advertise on channels that have bugs and, most of all, snipes of any kind.

It will take the advertisers and ad companies to force the networks to stop this crappy practice.

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post #815 of 3300 Old 07-19-2008, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ja2bk View Post

Matter of fact, maybe even less since we aren't a viewer complaining.

Viewr complaints are working either.

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post #816 of 3300 Old 07-19-2008, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 8traxrule View Post

The world will certainly be a better place once the analog stations go off the air- that means I'll be seeing even less TV then.

But the analogs are being replaced with digital, so there will not be a decrease in OTA stations.

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post #817 of 3300 Old 07-19-2008, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clev12 View Post

I've never seen an ad on HDTV, over-the-air or through digital cable (which I watch through a STB, as opposed to a cablecard). Maybe it's a cablecard thing?

It's not a cablecard thing.

The only OTA networks that do not have snipes on the HD programming is ABC and FOX. During primetime, all the others do: CBS, CW and NBC.

Other than HBO, all of the commercial cable HD channels have snipes.

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post #818 of 3300 Old 07-19-2008, 06:47 PM
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Are you guys referring to the occasional graphic that pops up at the bottom on say, like an episode of CSI advertising that NCIS comes on CBS on Tuesdays at 8/7c?
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post #819 of 3300 Old 07-19-2008, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by clev12 View Post

Are you guys referring to the occasional graphic that pops up at the bottom on say, like an episode of CSI advertising that NCIS comes on CBS on Tuesdays at 8/7c?

Bingo. And what you're watching now, and a static graphic next to or above the bug. It's growing from the bottom of the screen towards the center. It's also known as Promo Dept. Gone Wild.
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post #820 of 3300 Old 07-19-2008, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

Other than HBO, all of the commercial cable HD channels have snipes.

HBO is even alone as the only PREMIUM, PAY TV SERVICE without bugs/snipes. AFAIK they never post bugs or anything else during movies or even shows.

I know that Showtime and Starz put bugs on HD and Showtime even puts snipes and bugs over HD movies and shows. They even reduce the studio credits for ads.

HBO is the only service I subscribe to and I think it's going to stay that way. Why should I pay $12 a month for a channel that is basically TBS.
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post #821 of 3300 Old 07-19-2008, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mrvideo View Post

Instead of complaining to the networks, who have closed their eyes and ears to the viewers, it looks like we need to bitch at the advertisers. Let them know that we will not buy products from companies who advertise on channels that have bugs and, most of all, snipes of any kind.

It will take the advertisers and ad companies to force the networks to stop this crappy practice.

I thought about that too. I wished I recorded EVERY advertiser during the last half hour of the season finale of Deal Or No Deal, when NBC was the worst ever with ads. They increased the font size on the ad and had a live countdown to the Baby Borrowers(and that piece of $#!* airs bug free!! ).

I'd like to tell those advertisers that I'll avoid their products b/c they advertised on this network with terrible clutter practices.

I figured if the crazy religious/PTC people boycott advertisers b/c of "inappropriate TV" why can't we protest for a REAL reason: BS on screen clutter.
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post #822 of 3300 Old 07-20-2008, 12:55 AM
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This is a somewhat different issue (and something I'm surprised I've never seen before), but CNN is advertising its Black in America series across its pillars/wings during 4:3 CNN programming. Perhaps one of the upsides to stretch-o-vision, as much as we like to complain about stretched content.
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post #823 of 3300 Old 07-20-2008, 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by URFloorMatt View Post

Perhaps one of the upsides to stretch-o-vision

Absolutely not. Stretch-o-vision does not have any upsides. I'll take ads in the pillars over stretch-o-vision any day of the week.
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post #824 of 3300 Old 07-20-2008, 04:48 AM
 
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Sponsors don't seem to take every complaint seriously either- I wrote to General Mills once about this and got a response saying "We don't have enough clout" to change the bug practices (though they do buy a lot of ad time on TV, wouldn't it make a big dent in profits if they stopped?) and also mentioned that very few people complain about bugs and perhaps most of them like them since it helps them ID channels easier. I didn't bother writing back, but needless to say I've thought twice about buying their products ever since.

Ever since NBC started defacing its shows with the Olympics symbol in addition to their turkey/buzzard thing, I've avoided companies that bill themselves as "Official Olympics Sponsors". Coke is one, so I buy Pepsi instead whenever I have the choice!

That "NBC HD" bug was especially stupid- when color TV came out would they have put the word "COLOR" constantly on the screen too?
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post #825 of 3300 Old 07-20-2008, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8traxrule View Post

That "NBC HD" bug was especially stupid- when color TV came out would they have put the word "COLOR" constantly on the screen too?

If they could have, yes they probably would. Then, everyone watching in B&W would assume they are seeing color and then think it is not worth it to upgrade to a new "color" TV because they don't see much of an improvement. Just how some with SDTV think they are watching HD when they see those HD bugs.


SciFi is getting down right ridiculous. It wouldn't surprise me if they end up covering the entire screen with an ad soon. There ads are huge and it feels like the are covering half the screen coming out of every commercial break.

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post #826 of 3300 Old 07-20-2008, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

SciFi is getting down right ridiculous. It wouldn't surprise me if they end up covering the entire screen with an ad soon. There ads are huge and it feels like the are covering half the screen coming out of every commercial break.

Yeah, the "Eureka" ones are pretty big, and really bright blue so they stand out. Thankfully (at least during SG:Atlantis) they don't have the constant/annoying bug that's announcing whatever new show is coming on, and so far have only stuck to the popup snipes.
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post #827 of 3300 Old 07-21-2008, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

SciFi is getting down right ridiculous. It wouldn't surprise me if they end up covering the entire screen with an ad soon.

More likely then covering the entire screen, I can picture the day on Sci-Fi when the running program is squeezed into 1/3 of the screen and the other 2/3's is a running Sci-Fi promo for one of their upcoming shows- when the promo is over... the show in progress expands back to full screen.

Given the lack of fresh quality programming, the overload of reality shows and my distaste for on screen popups/etc- my TV viewing is down considerably when compared to previous years.

"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure...."

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post #828 of 3300 Old 07-21-2008, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mproper View Post

Yeah, the "Eureka" ones are pretty big, and really bright blue so they stand out. Thankfully (at least during SG:Atlantis) they don't have the constant/annoying bug that's announcing whatever new show is coming on, and so far have only stuck to the popup snipes.

The constant Ghost Hunters International text during Eureka pissed me off so much that I fired off both an e-mail AND physical letter. I got out my tape measure and that text measured 20" in length on my 65" HDTV.

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post #829 of 3300 Old 07-21-2008, 07:43 PM
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Another channel that I haven't noticed being mention in this thread is ESPN. Yea, they may not be advertising shows and stuff but, what they do to some of there shows is down right insane IMO. I was watching the season premiere of College Football Live today and the beginning of the show is in beautiful HD but as soon as the opening was over everything shrunk to a 4:3 safe area. That had team schedules on the left side and team info on the bottom. Problem is, it is all 4:3 safe with just a static background filling therest of the 16:9 area. It's a joke and such a waste of an HD channel. I don't understand why they can't keep a 16:9 ratio and put the extra info on the far side of the 16:9 image. This way the image wouldn't have to be shrunk down so much. I knwo they can, they do it every moring during SC when they have the rundownonthe right side up. I knowthey don't do this to every episode but, when they do I rufuse to watch. If I wanted to see the show like that I would have tuned into the SD channel.

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post #830 of 3300 Old 07-21-2008, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

I don't understand why they can't keep a 16:9 ratio and put the extra info on the far side of the 16:9 image.

That would require totally separate graphics for 16:9 and 4:3, the expense of which can only be justified on a show like SportsCenter.
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post #831 of 3300 Old 07-22-2008, 04:58 AM
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The Olympics are coming 8.8.08!
Worst promo bugs I've seen in the last week TNT for "The Closer" and "Saving Grace"
If Lifetime had an HD feed (on D*), they would have won the award.
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post #832 of 3300 Old 07-22-2008, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeremy W View Post

That would require totally separate graphics for 16:9 and 4:3, the expense of which can only be justified on a show like SportsCenter.

Lame excuse IMO. I work in TV and a little about these things and if ESPN is that worried about the cost of another graphics package then why bother doing the show in HD at all. I'm 99% sure that ESPN builds all there graphics in house, just like we do, and in the grand scheme of things graphics are not a huge burden on the budget compare to there other productions. Just a lame way to treat HD viewers. If you are not willing to do it right, don't do it at all IMO.

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post #833 of 3300 Old 07-22-2008, 04:20 PM
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The broadcasters are moving away from separate HD and SD distribution and cable channels will likely do the same. Even if they have separate HD and SD feeds, they will probably only have HD internally with a down conversion on the output. Separate graphics packages would require dual SD and HD control rooms or at least separate ganged switchers. This is not the direction things are moving.
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post #834 of 3300 Old 07-22-2008, 06:40 PM
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I stopped watching Reaper and Supernatural when they started with their huge bug promos and I've started recording the repeats because they don't seem to have any.

I just noticed they are still there, except now they only have them on screen for a couple of seconds after the ad break. Is this widespread or is it just this one episode of Reaper I have on in the background? Have CW finally got a clue?

edit: okay I take it back. CW have gone from one moronic move to another. There's no promo bug during the rerun of Supernatural I was watching from last Thursday, instead they had spoiler snipes for the upcoming season popping up along the bottom! What's the point in having something that says "spoiler warning" in tiny letters if you have the spoiler directly underneath it? Apparently they assume that everyone in the country who tuned in has already seen it.

It's a new level of idiocy.


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post #835 of 3300 Old 07-22-2008, 08:41 PM
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(putting on flame-resistant suit)

I actually like 4:3 safe graphic for two reasons. Number one: it saves bandwidth. With the upcoming DTV transition broadcast networks made the correct decision to have affiliates center cut the HD feed for digital cable/satellite SD feeds. Another alternative would be a 480i SD feed that would waste HD bandwidth on a DT 2 or even DT 3 in the case of many NBC stations. HELL NO!! I'll take a 4:3 safe bug over a macroblocked, reduced bandwidth picture any day.

I hope this practice eventually carries over to cable. Cable systems could also be more bandwidth-efficient if they either downconverted in-house then sent it out or replaced all STB tuners with HD capable tuners. Plus cable networks are the worst offenders of stretchovision.

Number two: Using a center cut feed for SD eliminates the possiblity of stretchovision. You cannot stretch a 4:3 picture and expect it to be 4:3 safe. Again HD viewers win because we are not forced to watch stretched garbage. And to comment oon above: STRETCHOVISION IS ALWAYS WRONG!!! There are no "benefits" of a distorted, disfigured picture ever.
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post #836 of 3300 Old 07-22-2008, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdawg View Post

I actually like 4:3 safe graphic for two reasons.

I think both of your reasons are invalid:

1. They could have letterboxed the SD feed instead of center-cutting and forcing those of us who bought nice 16:9 TVs to live with 20% of our screen being wasted for many more years to come.

2. Stretch-o-vision is a horrible thing, yes, but OTA networks do not use it.
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post #837 of 3300 Old 07-22-2008, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeremy W View Post

I think both of your reasons are invalid:

1. They could have letterboxed the SD feed instead of center-cutting and forcing those of us who bought nice 16:9 TVs to live with 20% of our screen being wasted for many more years to come.

In a perfect world, letterboxing would be the standard. But with AFD not even on the radar with the DTV transition I doubt it will happen. Plus, I hate on screen crap. Period. Even if the snipes on NBC and CBS HD were "in the corners" of the 16:9 screen, I still would not be tolerant of it. Crap is Crap.

Quote:


2. Stretch-o-vision is a horrible thing, yes, but OTA networks do not use it.

Tell that to WKYC in Cleveland, who stretched non-HD local and network programming up until December 2006. I'm sure there are still affiliates out there who do it. Luckily, that is not a broadcast network issue.
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post #838 of 3300 Old 07-22-2008, 11:04 PM
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CW have gone from one moronic move to another.

When I look at the CW I think OMFG.
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post #839 of 3300 Old 07-23-2008, 06:45 PM
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Not sure when it happened but WGN changed their logo bug again. The "anime hooker eyes" are not on screen all the time anymore. They only appear after commercial breaks then they turn into a normal "WGN" text bug. It's a good change to have a normal logo again.
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post #840 of 3300 Old 07-24-2008, 11:02 PM
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During tonight's "Supernatural" I saw something I haven't seen before. It seems static ad text advertising one show isn't enough anymore. Now, after commercial breaks the ad text comes on and shows THREE (3) upcoming shows. "Gossip Girl"-September 1, "90210"-September 2, "Top Model"-September 3. Then, the usual big, bright snipe appears on the left side of the screen.

This, along with the scrolling crawl mentioned earlier, the CW is setting and breaking the record for most annyoing on screen s***.
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