Cablevision Boxes and cards...can I use them? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 07-22-2009, 10:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I have Cablevision,I have 2 set-top boxes,the Atlanta Scientific 4200 and 4200HD.I would like to have a few extra TVs at home,like the garage,home office,wherever.These locations would only see rare or occasional use.

I get extra boxes pretty regular.I work in home renovation,and I see plenty of boxes left behind by previous owners and tenants,when places change hands.I am able to get them if the new owners or tenants tell me to throw them out.They all have cards in the card slot thing.

I brought one home and hooked it into the cable.The box works for a short time in ultra basic package mode,then it shuts down and the display shows dashes across it. If I take the card out of one of my own boxes and insert it in the found box,it will work fine,and give me the channels,I usually have.However,if I take the card out of the found box and put it into my box,the box will shut down and display dashes.

When I go into diagnostics,on the box,it will display the Zip code of the place I got the box from,so the box(and Cablevision,I suppose) know where it is.

Can I get these boxes to work?I'm not eager to pay $7 a month per box,especially if it is rarely used.And what is so special about the card?
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post #2 of 21 Old 07-23-2009, 07:34 AM
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These boxes ALL belong to Cablevision. They should be returned to Cablevision. You are most likely guilty of a crime by having these boxes in your possession. The card must be activated to make a box work. If I were you I would call Cablevision whenever I found one of their boxes in an apartment or home.
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post #3 of 21 Old 07-23-2009, 07:59 AM
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I would also say return them or just leave them, when and if you try to have them activated they will know, each box is identified by a unique MAC address.
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post #4 of 21 Old 07-23-2009, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cablemidget View Post

Can I get these boxes to work?I'm not eager to pay $7 a month per box,especially if it is rarely used.

No go. You need Cablevision to activate them, and they won't activate them without your $7 a month. Either legitimately lease a box from them or forget it. As mentioned before, large cable companies own their boxes. Cablevision is no exception. They aren't sold to consumers in the US, so random boxes you may find in homes or on eBay quickly become a doorstop, as you've found.


There's no magic formula to make those "free" boxes work.


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And what is so special about the card?

The card is where the encryption technology lies. You could buy a TiVo or Moxi DVR and insert them into them and have the channels. But the card itself also has to be leased. It's probably included in your box rental fee for the ones you have now.

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post #5 of 21 Old 07-24-2009, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMI Guy View Post

These boxes ALL belong to Cablevision. They should be returned to Cablevision. You are most likely guilty of a crime by having these boxes in your possession. The card must be activated to make a box work. If I were you I would call Cablevision whenever I found one of their boxes in an apartment or home.

I don't feel any responsibility for that.Don't they collect a fee from those who don't return boxes? Don't they collect from insurance for equipment left behind during fires or flood?

I have a card(issued to me by cablevision) in a recovered box that has operated for a year now. If I go into diagnostics it seems I can find identification numbers for the individual box itself.

The card seems to be the thing that must communicate back to cablevision.What is the deal with the encryption? Who handles the encryption?
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post #6 of 21 Old 07-24-2009, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cablemidget View Post

I don't feel any responsibility for that.Don't they collect a fee from those who don't return boxes? Don't they collect from insurance for equipment left behind during fires or flood?

Sure, but that doesn't mean abandoned boxes are for use by whoever finds them. Cablevision could terminate your service wholesale if they find you've been using unauthorized boxes.

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The card seems to be the thing that must communicate back to cablevision.What is the deal with the encryption? Who handles the encryption?

Cablevision handles it. Or they may contract it out, but either way, you're not going to be able to "program" those cards you found in the abandoned boxes. You need Cablevision's authorized card, end of story.

edit: In addition, what you want to do is basically considered "hacking" cable equipment, which is a discussion that isn't allowed here.

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post #7 of 21 Old 07-25-2009, 04:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Sure, but that doesn't mean abandoned boxes are for use by whoever finds them. Cablevision could terminate your service wholesale if they find you've been using unauthorized boxes.

Maybe they could...but why would anyone kick out someone who is already paying through the nose a handsome fee for a service.There are plenty of alternatives out there now.

When I hear the tone of some of the conversation it just seems that many are still influenced by the intimidating image that cablevision and others have created over the years.Hey,if it is in my house,under my roof,I deserve to know how the thing operates.

Gee wiz...do these boxes contain some sort of national defense secret within?If cablevision values the boxes so highly,well ,they haven't let the construction or insurance industry in on any program for recovery and payment for abandoned equipment.

Just curious,what do you think the dollar amount is that the cable companies pay for each of these boxes,at the quantities they purchase?




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Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Cablevision handles it. Or they may contract it out, but either way, you're not going to be able to "program" those cards you found in the abandoned boxes. You need Cablevision's authorized card, end of story.

edit: In addition, what you want to do is basically considered "hacking" cable equipment, which is a discussion that isn't allowed here.


I didn't realize I was approaching a sensitive area.I guess this must be where the really interesting part is.Since you're telling me not to...it makes me even more curious.
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post #8 of 21 Old 07-25-2009, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cablemidget View Post

Maybe they could...but why would anyone kick out someone who is already paying through the nose a handsome fee for a service.There are plenty of alternatives out there now.

It's their system, they're entitled to charge what they charge, and kick out whoever they feel is violating their terms of service. If you don't like that, then feel free to go to one of the alternatives.

But Sat companies, FiOS, and AT&T U-Verse all use some type of encryption so you're paying a fee for their equipment. They don't allow unauthorized boxes any more than Cablevision does.

If you want truly free channels, look for an Internet option, like Hulu.com or possibly the torrents.

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When I hear the tone of some of the conversation it just seems that many are still influenced by the intimidating image that cablevision and others have created over the years.Hey,if it is in my house,under my roof,I deserve to know how the thing operates.

What intimidation? I'm not scared of any cable company, I just know generally how they operate and trying to get some info across to you.

A cable box is basically a QAM tuner with some two-way communication and encryption technology. All the info is available here.

If you're asking how to make encryption work so you can get those cards out of the found boxes to give you channels, you need to consult with an encryption expert, probably one who works for the cable industry.

Good luck finding one willing to do it, though, as they probably get compensated too much to risk telling you how to do it.

Quote:



Gee wiz...do these boxes contain some sort of national defense secret within?If cablevision values the boxes so highly,well ,they haven't let the construction or insurance industry in on any program for recovery and payment for abandoned equipment.

Just curious,what do you think the dollar amount is that the cable companies pay for each of these boxes,at the quantities they purchase?

Not really sure. They retail in Canada for $200-$300 a piece for the non-DVR models. So it's some fraction of that.

I would imagine they're more concerned with the theft of service, hence the encryption business.

Quote:


I didn't realize I was approaching a sensitive area.I guess this must be where the really interesting part is.Since you're telling me not to...it makes me even more curious.

The actual hacking discussion isn't discussed here because it is illegal, as the boxes and cards are Cablevision property (even when abandoned, and it is on Cablevision's system.) It's no more allowed than discussions of hacking into specific banks on a general tech support forum.

Not that it matters. Breaking encryption on a cable box would probably require someone with excellent data encryption skills who is familiar with the technology, not your average computer hacker who can break the security on a DVD. It would be a lot of work just to get a cable box active so you can save $7 a month. If you want to pursue it, though, nothing's stopping you.

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post #9 of 21 Old 07-25-2009, 01:44 PM
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Why is it in threads like this, the person doing the finding seems to assume found boxes are theirs? Is the concept of renting the cable box that confusing? Do you assume that a car you find parked on the street is yours just because the owner isn't standing right next to it? "Finders keepers!" might sort of work when you're 5, but that principle doesn't stand up to the economic model these companies are operating under. It's no more legitimately yours than it's legitimate for you to steal cable because no one's looking.

I'm sure this won't dissuade them, but I just find it funny...
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post #10 of 21 Old 07-25-2009, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by demonfoo View Post

Why is it in threads like this, the person doing the finding seems to assume found boxes are theirs? ... but I just find it funny...

Demon,if you took the time to read the posts above,you would understand that I come into these boxes on a regular basis.I have good reason to believe that cablevision is compensated for them.

For every box that I have kept probably 10 others were thrown in the dumpster by me. I have always put these units aside until directed to discard them. I spend enough time with insurance adjusters to know whether there is a reason or incentive to contact Cablevision to come get them.I'm working at a place now where I think we have one on the side.When I think of it I will call the company and ask them to come get the equipment...I'll see what happens.

If they do get the box back,do you think they go into the diagnostics,find the subscriber it was issued to and refund any money that they pursued them for? Do you think they call the insurance company that may have written a check for the equipment? I'll ask to see how they handle it.

I suspect that they will probably be asking me more questions about me than handing out thank yous or giving out finder's fees,but maybe I'm wrong.

I have a TV in my garage,haven't turned it on in 5 months.It has a cable box.The rent is $80 a year.I pay over $1k a year for little more than basic service. I'd like to have a TV in my home office so I can turn on the freakin weather channel on a 20 y.o. CRT. every once in a while.
They don't have to provide $500 in equipment.I have it.It's not new but it will do the job. I didn't get them at gunpoint,I got them after a dozen people went through it .

Maybe Cablevision actually has a program where they wave the rental fee for a rarely used box.Many of you seem to have a very high regard for them and their business model.They could be more fair than I give them credit for.
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post #11 of 21 Old 07-25-2009, 04:25 PM
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If you get a box to work, enjoy. If you find a box that doesn't work, throw it in the dumpster with the others.

What CV does with their boxes is their perogative. IMHO... you want to justify getting something for nothing. I don't think you'll get too much sympathy/support here.

It is what it is...
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post #12 of 21 Old 11-14-2011, 05:50 PM
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It's not that the cable company's own their boxes etc., it's that I pay for the service coming into my home and I feel that I shouldn't have to pay again to view that same programing just because I haven't rented a box for every (5) TV's in the house. At the very leased, they should make it very clear that consumers will be charged extra to be able to watch all the channels that they've paid for already in the packages they've ordered. It's pure and simple deceptive advertising and Attorney Generals and other law makers of the various states and the maybe the fed's too etc., should begin to put an end to the bleeding.
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post #13 of 21 Old 11-15-2011, 06:22 AM
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If you want to have some occasional use from a TV, but don't want to pay to rent the box, you can set up an HTPC with a CableCard tuner (Cards that you find in those boxes are the same CableCards you would insert into a CableCard enabled tuner) and then run a network cable to locations where you want to watch TV, add a Media Center Extender, and you have full fledged cable service (leaglly) and you will get all the channels you are entitled to.

We have 5 TV's in the house, and only pay $3.99/month to rent the CableCard from Verizon, and do our own decryption and distribution via Windows 7 PC. Each TV has DVR capability (Pause, rewind, skip commercials, record live TV), movies and music from our digital collection.

P.S. Before anyone jumps in, we are no stealing cable, it is fully legalized by the FCC act of 1996 for the individuals to decrypt cable and distribute through the dwelling as they wish. We are paying for it by renting the CableCard from Verizon, plus we get other services from them. Our total bill for 20/5 internet, local, long distance (includes Canada, PR and Mexico) phone, and TV is $75/month inclusive of taxes and fees. We were able to cut our bill in half by not renting boxes/DVR from Verizon.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #14 of 21 Old 11-15-2011, 07:59 AM
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But... what was the cost of the PC and media extender(s) for 5 TV's?
Also, are all TV's completely "independant"? In other words, Can you 3 watch different broadcast channels (with one tuner and one cablecard) while the other two watch two different PVR (recorded) programs simultaneously?

I'd imagine you'd need a PC with a lot of "muscle".
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post #15 of 21 Old 11-15-2011, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

But... what was the cost of the PC and media extender(s) for 5 TV's?
Also, are all TV's completely "independant"? In other words, Can you 3 watch different broadcast channels (with one tuner and one cablecard) while the other two watch two different PVR (recorded) programs simultaneously?

I'd imagine you'd need a PC with a lot of "muscle".

Ceton InfiniTV4 has 4 tuners, so 4 independant programs can be watched/recorded at the same time.

We have also added 4 cheap ClearQAM tuners, so that CableCard tuners are not used to view content that is not encrypted.

If more than 1 locaiton is viewing the same channel (live or in delay, as long as the delay is not over 40 minutes), then, only 1 tuner is used.

Since all of the TV conent in the US is digital, there is no transcoding needed, you don't need a super duper PC to handle it all. We have it all run by a cheap Athlon II X4, quad core CPU that you can buy from newegg for under $100.

The PC it self, depending on how fancy you want it to look, is between $300 - $400.

Ceton Quad Cable Card tuner, we paid $435 when it first came out, I have seen it as low as $260 on sale.

(edit: There are less expensive options, as well. ATI DCT sells for about $80 on ebay, Hauppauge dual cable Card tuner is about $150, Silicon Dust HomeRun Prime triple network attached tuner is about $200)

Media Center Extenders are either XBOX 360 if you have them, or buy used ones on ebay for under $100.

Verizon charges $20/month for whole house DVR, and $10/month for additional HD boxes to connect to it, which for 5 TV's comes out to $60/month, $720/year, $3600/5 years.

So, for under $1000 for 5 TV's, the system pays for it self in a little over a year. The reason I say 5 years, because that has been my experience with HTPC's, they become obsolete in 5 years.

So, whether you lay out a $1000 now, or pay $3600 over 5 years is simply a user's choice. Some people like to throw money away, I don't.

Plus, as the added benefit, we have unlimited storage capacity, just add more hard drives, and we can play our digital content (movies, music, pictures...) anywhere in the house. We have no physical media in the house. No need to fumble through DVD's, CD's or BluRays, it is all in one place... acceible with a remote control.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #16 of 21 Old 11-15-2011, 11:28 AM
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Sounds like a simple/plausible avenue to persue for some. OTOH, it seems like a lot of hardware to purchase, manage and maintain for many. Not everyone is technically inclined. Also one has to consider Cat5/6 wiring or wireless for each location.

IMO, too many eggs in one basket. The PC goes down, no TV. Hardware fails, it's up to you to diagnose repair/replace. Media extender(s) fails, it's your nickel. I'm not trying to suck the wind from your sails, but I don't think it's as inexpensive, convenient and/or as easy as you describe.

As much as we all hate to pay a monthly rental fee... it's nice to know that if a box dies, you get a replacement without an issue or expense.
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post #17 of 21 Old 11-16-2011, 03:17 AM
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ratman, your points are well taken especially about TV via PC.
But personally I continue/prefer to own my TV equipment rather than renting, but to each his own.
recently total comcast-sunk time is 3 days and ~14 hours on the phone and with comcast, installer visit to house, many attempt to upgrade to digital economy via:
- comcast settop box
- comcast dta
- comcast cablecard plus MOXI
all attempts were major failures, taking many hours of weekend time, and each time resulting in disconnecting my comcast internet service. always a corner-caseprovisioning failure on their end.
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post #18 of 21 Old 11-16-2011, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Sounds like a simple/plausible avenue to persue for some. OTOH, it seems like a lot of hardware to purchase, manage and maintain for many. Not everyone is technically inclined. Also one has to consider Cat5/6 wiring or wireless for each location.

IMO, too many eggs in one basket. The PC goes down, no TV. Hardware fails, it's up to you to diagnose repair/replace. Media extender(s) fails, it's your nickel. I'm not trying to suck the wind from your sails, but I don't think it's as inexpensive, convenient and/or as easy as you describe.

As much as we all hate to pay a monthly rental fee... it's nice to know that if a box dies, you get a replacement without an issue or expense.

It may seem like a lot, but in reality it is not. Pretty much every one has a computer these days, and once set up, it does not need any maintenance. It will automatically download and install updates at the predetermined intervals.

I have not had a box from a provider for a long time, but when I did, in the 90's, you had to call them to schedule an appointment to have a tech to come out and swap the boxes.

I see that both Time Warner and Verizon have retail locations, and I assume you can swap out the boxes there too. But, the stores are usually open when I am at work. So, in order to do the swap, I would have to take time off work.

Yes, if the main HTPC goes down, you lose the TV, no big deal, we can survive without TV for a day or two. In the years that I have been doing this, I have yet to have an HTPC go down that would take more than an hour to fix. Certainly faster than it would take to get a replacement box from the provider.

I have learned to use military grade components, and allow for plenty of ventilation. Ventilation is the key to long life computers. Our last 2 HTPC's lasted us 5 years each, without a hick up 24/7/365.

I have had more provider boxes fail on me than HTPC failing.

Besides, since I build these for people, I always have spare parts on hand, and a handful of extenders. In fact, I usually buy broken extenders on ebay and fix them up. Now, that requires a little more technical knowledge than your basic computer building skill.

When I build them for people, I learned to lock them in Media Center mode. The most dramatic failures I had, was when customers would start messing with the settings, without knowing much about the technology. I just lock them down, and there have been no problems.

If my elderly parents (80 and 75) can use the HTPC, pretty much everyone can use them.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #19 of 21 Old 11-16-2011, 11:40 AM
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Yup... sounds simple as long as one knows what they're doing and has spare parts on hand.
For one TV connected to an HTPC it's not a major issue. For 5 TV's it gets complicated, even for a 57 year old with 35 years of IT experience.
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post #20 of 21 Old 11-18-2011, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Yup... sounds simple as long as one knows what they're doing and has spare parts on hand.
For one TV connected to an HTPC it's not a major issue. For 5 TV's it gets complicated, even for a 57 year old with 35 years of IT experience.

I guess...

I just have to clarify that I am not an IT guy, and young enough to be your son...

So, no IT experience (other than tinkering) and it all just works...

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #21 of 21 Old 11-18-2011, 03:22 PM
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Sounds like the answer my sons would give...
"Cool! I hooked it up and it all works."

Just like cars.
"Dad!!!! I bought this great car. I got a deal! I put in the key and it started right up!"
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