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post #1 of 43 Old 01-30-2012, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi everyone.

I have Rogers digital cable (Internet & Cable TV) running through a 3-way splitter:

- 2 HDTV's
- 1 internet connection to a modem

We have just finished our basement and would like to add two HDTV's.

Can anyone recommend a good quality 5 way splitter?

Any suggestions/recommendations would be appreciated.

Thank you.
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post #2 of 43 Old 01-30-2012, 11:48 AM
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Do you know how to check the modem diagnostic page?
If so check it and look at the tab for your up and downstream levels.
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post #3 of 43 Old 01-30-2012, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the quick reply RCbridge.

Unfortunately I have not tried this. It's a Motorola modem.

Can the same information be pulled up from my PVR? As I have accessed a diagnostic page from my Scientific Atlanta PVR in the past.

Thank you.
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post #4 of 43 Old 01-30-2012, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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On another forum, I've been advised to do the following...

-------------------------

you should disconnect your 3-way unbalanced splitter, and put it aside, then you need to buy a 2-way splitter, put that at the main line, one leg of the splitter goes to your modem line, the other leg of the splitter will go to a new 4-way splitter you need to buy. then that 4-way splitter will go to all 4 STB devices and ensure proper signal strength (dB) on each drop. if you did it te other way, you would experience difficulties.

-------------------------

This seems to make sense. Any thoughts?

Thank you.
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post #5 of 43 Old 01-30-2012, 02:30 PM
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Short answer... Sounds like good advice.
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post #6 of 43 Old 01-30-2012, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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LOL. How about another short answer...

Is there a particular brand of splitter that I should invest in? Or, is a splitter a splitter?

Thanks.
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post #7 of 43 Old 01-30-2012, 03:01 PM
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Short answer... 2 way and 4 way, they all have the same attenuation. A splitter is a splitter.

Bottom line is that you want to have the least amount of loss to the cable modem.

EDIT:
for indoor use, most any splitter will suffice. To add, most all simple 2 way splitters have -3.5 dB attenuation per port. Most all 4 way splitters have -7 dB attenuation per port. Cascading a 4 way from a 2 way will be ~ -10.5 dB loss to each TV. The cable modem will not be affected.
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post #8 of 43 Old 01-30-2012, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Ratman.
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post #9 of 43 Old 01-30-2012, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rusted2000 View Post

Is there a particular brand of splitter that I should invest in?

I found this on a Rogers cable forum:

"Cogeco uses Antronix passive drop splitters for 2, 3, 4 for way splits. I use them too, they work great for cable internet connections, digital boxes, and analogue. 5MHz-1GHz, great F-ports on them too.

Specifically these ones:
http://www.antronix.net/Products/cat...oppassives&i=7
"

I've also read on AVS that PCT and Regal are good as well.
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post #10 of 43 Old 01-30-2012, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Short answer... 2 way and 4 way, they all have the same attenuation. A splitter is a splitter.

Are you serious???

So, an epoxied splitter is no different than a solder-back splitter. A splitter that has a few components inside just hanging loose and soldered to one another is no different than one that has a printed circuit board. One that has blocking capacitors is the same as one that doesn't, etc.

Interesting.

I guess it's been a waste of time all these years replacing all those Rat Shack and Monster and GC (and many others) splitters. Even though the problems went away after putting real ones in there, I guess it really was never the splitter after all.

CIAO!

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post #11 of 43 Old 01-31-2012, 04:46 AM
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Unfortunately I have not tried this. It's a Motorola modem.

if still interested put 192.168.100.1 into your browser that should give you the modem info.

I mention this because the conventional thinking is to use the 2 way split and use one leg for the modem and the other will feed another power divider for your video needs.
However sometimes that is not practical, if it is in your case I would do that.

if you decide to check your modem diag as wired now you want to look at the up and downstream levels.

The D/S should be about 0dbmv plus or minus 8db.
The U/S should be less then 52dbmv (hopefully it is in the mid to upper 40's)
As you add more attenuation (splitters) that U/S level will increase most modems can push about 55dbmv so adding that extra splitter can cause you to lose your lock.
Also your D/S will decrease (if you are near that -8dbmv level you will not lock up).

After checking your levels if your numbers are near the edge I would do the 2 way split and go from there.

Yes the quality of splitters can vary in my opinion Antronix is a decent brand.
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post #12 of 43 Old 01-31-2012, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCbridge View Post

I mention this because the conventional thinking is to use the 2 way split and use one leg for the modem and the other will feed another power divider for your video needs.
However sometimes that is not practical, if it is in your case I would do that.

Conventional cable installations have the main feed from the pole/ped and use a 2 way splitter. One for the video, one for the modem.

It's normally not practical for the cableco to run two feeds from the pole/ped. It's easier and cost effective for them to adjust signals/levels outside the residence.

Although checking the modem may give you an idea what you have to work with. But, the modem power/signal levels can be tweaked from the head-end and may not be totally accurate as it relates to the video side.
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post #13 of 43 Old 01-31-2012, 08:24 AM
 
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2 way, 4 way, the important question no one asked is how long the runs are and what are your beginning levels. You do NOT want to use a 2 way with a 4 way branched off one leg of the 2way UNLESS the signal strength is substantial enough to support such a configuration.
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post #14 of 43 Old 01-31-2012, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Conventional cable installations have the main feed from the pole/ped and use a 2 way splitter. One for the video, one for the modem.

It's normally not practical for the cableco to run two feeds from the pole/ped. It's easier and cost effective for them to adjust signals/levels outside the residence.

Although checking the modem may give you an idea what you have to work with. But, the modem power/signal levels can be tweaked from the head-end and may not be totally accurate as it relates to the video side.

Checking the cable modem's power levels will not only give an idea of what the receive power level is, it will tell you EXACTLY what the receive power level is. That isn't "tweaked" at the headend. Even if the headend were "turned up (or down)," the first AGC would compensate for the increased (or decreased) input level by turning itself down (or up).

256QAM is run at 10dB below the nearest analog carrier (64QAM runs at -6dBc). Just like the digital channels, cable modems are QAM. When looking at the power levels page on a cable modem, what you see is what it gets.

On the upstream side, the CMTS tells the cable modem to adjust itself so that the CMTS receives it at a level of 0dBmV. That it does on an individual cable modem basis. Conditions out in the plant (either noise or the plant itself) affect that.

CIAO!

Ed N.
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post #15 of 43 Old 01-31-2012, 08:43 AM
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Conventional cable installations have the main feed from the pole/ped and use a 2 way splitter. One for the video, one for the modem.

Agreed that is what I was trying to relay.

Quote:


Although checking the modem may give you an idea what you have to work with. But, the modem power/signal levels can be tweaked from the head-end and may not be totally accurate as it relates to the video side.

Not sure what you mean here but the only thing that is tweaked from the CMTS for the modem is the amount of upstream power needed to reach it at a pre-set level.
This is determined by the amount of attenuation between the modem and the CMTS.
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post #16 of 43 Old 01-31-2012, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

2 way, 4 way, the important question no one asked is how long the runs are and what are your beginning levels. You do NOT want to use a 2 way with a 4 way branched off one leg of the 2way UNLESS the signal strength is substantial enough to support such a configuration.

In scenarios where there are 4 or more TV outlets, there should be a drop amp on the input of the TV distribution splitter. Leave the splitter or TAP that the cable modem is connected to alone (you don't want to amplify the input of a cable modem). Place the amp at the input of the 4-way (or whatever size) splitter. Or use a 4 or 8 output drop amp.

CIAO!

Ed N.
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post #17 of 43 Old 01-31-2012, 02:15 PM
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Or... just call your cableco and have one of their experts do the installation of the cables, splitters, amps or whatever is necessary. That way, any problems/issues is their responsibilty to address should you have problems.

Here's the gist of the issue...
Assuming the cable modem's drop is the 1st feed from the incoming cable's 2 way split, it's levels/readings don't mean squat for drops after the additional splitters.

Conventially and if done properly, you should be able to provide 8 in-home drops without amplification. YMMV
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post #18 of 43 Old 01-31-2012, 03:34 PM
 
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Quote:


Conventially and if done properly, you should be able to provide 8 in-home drops without amplification.

Sorry old friend but that statement is completely false.
Quote:


just call your cableco and have one of their experts do the installation of the cables, splitters, amps or whatever is necessary.

Absolutely, this is the route the OP needs to take.
Quote:


(you don't want to amplify the input of a cable modem).

Hard to do these days as I am unaware of any house/drop amps that amplify the return, only the forward is amplified.

Again, all moot as the input signal level must first be discerned before blindly splitting anything. And unless the OP has access to a FSM then he needs to bite the bullet and have the cable co to come out and do the job correctly.
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post #19 of 43 Old 01-31-2012, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

Sorry old friend but that statement is completely false. Absolutely, this is the route the OP needs to take. Hard to do these days as I am unaware of any house/drop amps that amplify the return, only the forward is amplified.

Again, all moot as the input signal level must first be discerned before blindly splitting anything. And unless the OP has access to a FSM then he needs to bite the bullet and have the cable co to come out and do the job correctly.

Amplified return drop amps have been used for the past 5-6 years and are pretty common on the 8-way variety.

All Comments made are my own and not of my employer.
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post #20 of 43 Old 01-31-2012, 03:46 PM
 
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Amplified return drop amps have been used for the past 5-6 years and are pretty common on the 8-way variety.

Link to house/drop amplifier that performs this?
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post #21 of 43 Old 01-31-2012, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

Link to house/drop amplifier that performs this?

http://www.amazon.com/Electroline-ED.../dp/B00299G80Q

At TWC we have kept them in stock for a while, or you can do the math with 20 over tap value return with a 23 value tap and than a 2-way splitter feeding an 8-way. The boxes would have a hard time reaching the De-Mod with out active return.

Been out of the game for a while.? I have a 4040D and 5000 for sale if you want to get back sweeping..?

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post #22 of 43 Old 01-31-2012, 04:31 PM
 
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Thanks, but unneccessary.

The amp you linked to is not really active on the reverse, only forward. 0dB insertion loss is all it offers. Forward gain of only 3 dB.
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post #23 of 43 Old 01-31-2012, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

Thanks, but unneccessary.

The amp you linked to is not active on the reverse, only forward. 0dB insertion loss is all it offers. Forward gain of only 3 dB.

Yes compared to having 11dbmv loss, which makes it active with 11dbmv of gain. Math not your specialty...?...

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post #24 of 43 Old 01-31-2012, 04:35 PM
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BTW active is amplified and passive is not in regard to forward or return gains.

All Comments made are my own and not of my employer.
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post #25 of 43 Old 01-31-2012, 04:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ybsane View Post

Yes compared to having 11dbmv loss, which makes it active with 11dbmv of gain. Math not your specialty...?...

Always misquote folks?
Anyway, where are you getting 11dB loss from? I have likely set-up more returns in every type of line amp there is since reverse began to be used, with the last type being Motorola 1 gig amps. My math is just fine.
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BTW active is amplified and passive is not in regard to forward or return gains.

You're preaching to the choir man...
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post #26 of 43 Old 01-31-2012, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

Thanks, but unneccessary.

The amp you linked to is not really active on the reverse, only forward. 0dB insertion loss is all it offers. Forward gain of only 3 dB.

It is still active return, never form an opinion about someone you don't know, when you throw the " I have likely set-up more returns in every type of line amp there is since reverse began to be used, with the last type being Motorola 1 gig amps. My math is just fine." It is a defense mechanism and this is not the cabl bar to talk about the old times, But we could hash out the price of strand crews and trunk and feeder ones from the 70' and 80's some other time. Still have a shotgun and magic box...?....

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post #27 of 43 Old 01-31-2012, 05:20 PM
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post #28 of 43 Old 01-31-2012, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkxmlr View Post

http://www.electroline.com/en/produc...t_REV.%20B.pdf

Amps are only bandages.

It all depends on the plant design, it could be bad and they can help depending on the circumstance...

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post #29 of 43 Old 01-31-2012, 05:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybsane View Post

It is still active return, never form an opinion about someone you don't know, when you throw the " I have likely set-up more returns in every type of line amp there is since reverse began to be used, with the last type being Motorola 1 gig amps. My math is just fine." It is a defense mechanism and this is not the cabl bar to talk about the old times, But we could hash out the price of strand crews and trunk and feeder ones from the 70' and 80's some other time. Still have a shotgun and magic box...?....

Whoa there youngin'...The only "opinion" I have formed about you is coming from your last post showing you are a hypocrit by actually forming an opinion about me, who you don't know. Saying I used a "defense mechanism", just proves that. Letting one know that I am not a newbie and this type conversation has nothing to do with defense but of course, you being on the defense and taking cheap shots like "Math not your specialty", goes to show the opinion I just formed is correct.

If you want to hash out the "price of strand crews" go at it on the bar but do not make the assumption you have any info to offer me. When I want your info I'll ask, and that likely isn't to happen.

But back on topic, you still haven't answered the question where you came up with the 11dB loss on the return. As you already are aware, these house/drop amps are to compensate for running a second line from the tap, as well as many techs (you seem to be one of them) that compensates for line issues just to close out a job. If you were in my system and did that kind work, you wouldn't be in my system.

Now, all of this is nothing more than a pissing match that I don't have time to be screwing around with, with you. The point of this topic is the OP needs to know what the actual levels are before he takes your advise and throws in active reverse amps willy nilly. So, again, this is all moot.

Have a nice night.
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post #30 of 43 Old 01-31-2012, 05:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkxmlr View Post

http://www.electroline.com/en/produc...t_REV.%20B.pdf

Amps are only bandages.

Yes and no. When used to compensate for line losses, yes. When used to compensate for many outlets, no.
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