TV Tuner with CableCard + Digital Out? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 08-06-2012, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I have Cox Cable in SoCal and to get any of the encrypted channels in HD (which is anything except local channels) I have to rent a cable box which costs $10/month. I don't care about having a guide and I don't care about a DVR, I just want to save a few bucks monthly without having a huge cable box in my bedroom.

My only other option is to use a device with a CableCard, but I don't want to pay TiVo for monthly service (defeats the purpose of saving money), and my TV doesn't have a cable card slot inherently.

I'm trying to find a small box that just has TV Tuner + CableCard slot + HDMI (or component) output - but don't want to run an HTPC in my bedroom. Does anything like this exist? Seems like there would be a big demand for some small box that can do this... I've talked to a couple friends and they feel the same, they would ditch their cable box to cut their monthly bill 80% and forfeit their guide and DVR.
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post #2 of 22 Old 08-06-2012, 03:35 PM
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Nope, nothing like that exists, outside of cable company boxes.

The problem is anything that isn't used by a cable company would have to be certified by CableLabs, the organization responsible for the cableCARDs. TiVo is certified, as is the Moxi DVR, and any HTPC tuners with cableCARD interfaces.

Cox boxes and DVRs aren't certified, but they don't have to be as they're proprietary to Cox's system and aren't purchasable by consumers.

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post #3 of 22 Old 08-06-2012, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info Tulpa... I didn't realize about the certification part of it.

Sounds like there's no easy way to fix this and the cable company has me right where they want me. It seems like there would be a big demand for a box like this, but who knows.

I hate feeding the cable giant beast every month with multiple box rentals, but I still want all my HD channels. Guess there's no way around it....
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post #4 of 22 Old 08-07-2012, 09:36 AM
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You can build a Mini-ITX system with CableCard tuner, i.e, HTPC that you said you don't want.

Alternative is Ceton Q, but be prepared to pay $700 for it.

If you only have 1 TV it may not be worth it, but if you have multiple cable boxes, the savings add up quickly.

We have an HTPC with Ceton (8 total tuners) and 5 TV's in the house. DVR/Cable box rentals would have been $60/month on top of the service fee. Instead we only pay $4/month to rent the CableCard and HTPC does the decryption and distribution to all 5 TV's via home network. System paid for it self in a year.

By the way, company cable boxes use the same CableCard you would use in a CableCard tuner or TiVO, they are all part of the same Cable Labs compliant system.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #5 of 22 Old 08-07-2012, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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blueiedgod, maybe it's worth looking into a mini-itx, it will pay for itself eventually.

I haven't heard of the Ceton-Q before your post, but I do have about 4 TV's in the house. Only 2 of them
use cable boxes, the other 2 are just using coaxial input so they only get HD on the major networks (non-encrypted).

Can you let me know how the extender works for the other TV's? Is it a separate extender box for each TV?
Do I need to have a wired ethernet connection next to each TV? I looked for this quickly but couldn't find it.

Thanks in Advance.
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post #6 of 22 Old 08-08-2012, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaBliss View Post

blueiedgod, maybe it's worth looking into a mini-itx, it will pay for itself eventually.
I haven't heard of the Ceton-Q before your post, but I do have about 4 TV's in the house. Only 2 of them
use cable boxes, the other 2 are just using coaxial input so they only get HD on the major networks (non-encrypted).
Can you let me know how the extender works for the other TV's? Is it a separate extender box for each TV?
Do I need to have a wired ethernet connection next to each TV? I looked for this quickly but couldn't find it.
Thanks in Advance.

Mini ITX may be too small of a form factor for a 4 TV set up. You need a CPU core per TV connected to the system. So, a quad CPU system if needed. Micro ATX system will fit the bill. You 'll jus thave to house it in a neat case, like nMedia or if budget allows Silverstone (although totallt unnecessary, since nMedia will work at half the price, check out nmedia pc 1080p case, regularly goes for $40 on newegg with free shop runner shipping).

Extenders connect to the HTPC via wired network, power line will work too, or if you wait for Ceton Echo, it will connect over MoCA i.e. Coax.

They use unified TV guide and recording storage (you can set to record from any TV, and view on any TV), and allow you view different channels/programs on each of the TV, as long as you have enough sources/tuners available. Plus, it allows you to pause in one room, and continue in another. It will also allow you to play back your digital media colletion, be it movies, music, or pictures on any TV connected to the system.

It is truly a whle house DVR system and more. If you use a CableCard tuner, you will be able to decrypt (legally) all of the channels you are entitled to, including HBO and Cinemax.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #7 of 22 Old 09-12-2013, 06:56 AM
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Is there any update on this subject since a year ago? I have the same frustration with fios. Technically, the solution sounds simple, but the roadblocks seem to be many.

Thanks.
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post #8 of 22 Old 09-12-2013, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cablecardnut View Post

Is there any update on this subject since a year ago? I have the same frustration with fios. Technically, the solution sounds simple, but the roadblocks seem to be many.

Thanks.

What road blocks?

Millions of people are using Windows as their whole house DVR. It is a very doable DIY set up, and a 2 year old can operate it. Operation is no different than any other appliance with a remote.

Edit: The only update from last year is that SiliconDust HomeRun Prime can be run without a PC, ala cable box mode, if you have a DLNA or DCTIP enabled TV. But you get no guide, nor ability to record, just tune and view, like you would with an adapter from Verizon.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #9 of 22 Old 09-12-2013, 10:58 AM
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Sorry, I should have been more specific about my objective. I am looking to connect a cable card reader to my TV (not PC) thru an HDMI input to the TV.

I'm not sure if my TV is DLNA or DCTIP enabled, and the specs don't tell me. However this is probably a moot point despite my new 22" Samsung TV having an HDMI and a USB input. SiliconDust HomeRun Prime states in its specs that the cable provider (fios in my case) must utilize Switched Digital Video. I checked with Verizon and, guest what. They do not!!! So SiliconDust is not an option either.

It amazes me how a provider can handcuff a customer. They offer a CableCard, but I need to buy something like a TIVO at $200+ plus a monthly fee with the DVR capability that I do not need just to avoid renting the provider's setbox box. Their digital adapter does not deliver the full complement of channels that I subscribe to either.

So my question to the forum remains open. Thank you.
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post #10 of 22 Old 09-13-2013, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cablecardnut View Post

So my question to the forum remains open.

Samsung has announced a device, but no word on exactly when (they just say later in 2013.)

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post #11 of 22 Old 09-13-2013, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cablecardnut View Post

. SiliconDust HomeRun Prime states in its specs that the cable provider (fios in my case) must utilize Switched Digital Video.

I think you might be reading this wrong. That would cut them off from Comcast and Verizon, and I'm 99% certain I've seen reports of people using these on Comcast and Verizon. Can you post the link?

DLNA is needed to get copy freely channels. DLNA and DTCP-IP is needed for copy once channels. Those are features you'd really only find in a smart tv. If your television doesnt have DLNA CERTIFIED plastered all over the box and manual, and doesn't have an ethernet port, or other smart features, it isn't likely a DLNA device.

Fios doesn't copy protect many channels (usually just premiums like HBO) so any DLNA playback device that supports MPEG2 video and AC3 audio will be able to play all the rest. That includes many many bluray players.


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post #12 of 22 Old 09-13-2013, 12:39 PM
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pittsoccer33,

Here is a link to the SiliconDust spec: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815345006&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-Video+Devices+%26+TV+Tuners-_-N82E16815345006&gclid=COW-pd6gqrkCFcOh4AodxDMAew#top

Look under Technical Information/Specifications/4th bullet which reads: "USB Port for connection to Tuning Adapter (for providers utilizing Switched Digital Video)". My Samsung TV does not have DNLA anywhere on the TV nor in the manual. The USB port only supports MP3 and JPEG files.

I will watch for Samsung's device promise around year end. Do you have further input on the source of your info?

Thank you.
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post #13 of 22 Old 09-13-2013, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cablecardnut View Post

Do you have further input on the source of your info?

Google Samsung cablecard box and you'll have tons of speculation.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1478317/samsung-cablecard-stb-dvr

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-05/samsung-to-reenter-cablecard-fray/

No word on pricing, no exact date.

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post #14 of 22 Old 09-14-2013, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cablecardnut View Post


Look under Technical Information/Specifications/4th bullet which reads: "USB Port for connection to Tuning Adapter (for providers utilizing Switched Digital Video)". My Samsung TV does not have DNLA anywhere on the TV nor in the manual. The USB port only supports MP3 and JPEG files.
That's telling you the HDHomeRun Prime has a USB port on it for connecting a tuning adapter if required. The tuning adapter is only required if your cable company uses SDV. I have a HDHomeRun Prime with FiOS and it works without a tuning adapter.
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post #15 of 22 Old 09-15-2013, 05:27 AM
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Very interesting, Ken. I can see how I may have been misreading the SDV info on the HDHomeRun Prime. So I understand you to be using the HDHomeRun Prime with a fios cable card directly attached to your TV using the TV's USB port. Is that correct? Are there any specifics on the TV's USB port that I should be looking for? My TV seems to support only MP3 and JPEG file formats only.

My TV has an HDMI input as well. Is there any way I can use it with the HDHomeRun Prime?

Thank you for the ray of hope.
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post #16 of 22 Old 09-15-2013, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cablecardnut View Post

Very interesting, Ken. I can see how I may have been misreading the SDV info on the HDHomeRun Prime. So I understand you to be using the HDHomeRun Prime with a fios cable card directly attached to your TV using the TV's USB port. Is that correct? Are there any specifics on the TV's USB port that I should be looking for? My TV seems to support only MP3 and JPEG file formats only.
No, my HDHomeRun is not connected to the TV directly. I don't think the HDHomeRun can output a video/audio signal from the USB port. I think the USB port is only to be used for the tuning adapter if one is required.
I'm using the HDHomeRun with Windows 7 Media Center. I have one TV connected to the PC with a HDMI cable and three other TVs using Ceton Echo extenders.
Quote:
My TV has an HDMI input as well. Is there any way I can use it with the HDHomeRun Prime?
Not without the help of another device. The HDHomeRun doesn't have traditional video outputs. It transmits everything over ethernet. I'm not sure what other options are out there. I'm satisfied with the Media Center PC and extenders so I haven't explored DLNA.
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post #17 of 22 Old 09-16-2013, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cablecardnut View Post

Sorry, I should have been more specific about my objective. I am looking to connect a cable card reader to my TV (not PC) thru an HDMI input to the TV.

I'm not sure if my TV is DLNA or DCTIP enabled, and the specs don't tell me. However this is probably a moot point despite my new 22" Samsung TV having an HDMI and a USB input. SiliconDust HomeRun Prime states in its specs that the cable provider (fios in my case) must utilize Switched Digital Video. I checked with Verizon and, guest what. They do not!!! So SiliconDust is not an option either.

It amazes me how a provider can handcuff a customer. They offer a CableCard, but I need to buy something like a TIVO at $200+ plus a monthly fee with the DVR capability that I do not need just to avoid renting the provider's setbox box. Their digital adapter does not deliver the full complement of channels that I subscribe to either.

So my question to the forum remains open. Thank you.

No handcuffs. Do you think that a TV that is capable of accepting CableCard will be priced the same as one that does not?

Someone has to pay for the hardware to run the decryption.

Providers that utilize SDV will give you a FREE Tuning Adapter to use when you rent a CableCard.

TiVO is nothing more than a stripped down PC. So, whether you use TiVO, or a PC, doesn't matter. You need one, unless you use DLNA with SDHRP.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #18 of 22 Old 09-18-2013, 10:22 AM
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Here is SiliconDust's position on a cablecard reader DIRECTLY interfacing to a TV.




None of our products have a video output. They are all designed for use with computers or other smart devices. There really isn't any product on the market from any company designed to do what you want. The cost of developing and certifying CableCARD equipment is too high to justify creating a basic box, unless a cable provider were to commit to buying several hundred thousand of them.

Silicondust Support
http://www.silicondust.com


Original Message
From: "David Iacino"
Reply-To: "David Iacino"
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 07:23:51 -0400
To: support@silicondust.com
Subject: HD HomeRun Prime

>Good morning,
>
>I would like to use your subject device as a cable card reader to eliminate my Verizon-supplied fios digital adapter. He is how I need to connect to my TV---not my PC, but to my TV.
>
>The fios RF Cable will feed the HD HomeRun Prime. From there, I need to direct connect to my TV's HDMI Input. How can I accomplish that?
>
>If I cannot do this with HD HomeRun Prime, do you have a device that will do this? I really do not need DVR capabilities, but am willing to accept that in order to interface a cable card reader directly to my 22" Samsung kitchen TV. The TV has inputs for component cables, a USB (for mp3 and JPEG files only), and 2 HDMI inputs.
>
>Thank you in advance for considering my request.
>
>David Iacino
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post #19 of 22 Old 09-18-2013, 10:46 AM
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You can do it with a Prime and a second box connected to your tv, like an inexpensive Samsung bluray player


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post #20 of 22 Old 09-19-2013, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cablecardnut View Post

Here is SiliconDust's position on a cablecard reader DIRECTLY interfacing to a TV.




None of our products have a video output. They are all designed for use with computers or other smart devices. There really isn't any product on the market from any company designed to do what you want. The cost of developing and certifying CableCARD equipment is too high to justify creating a basic box, unless a cable provider were to commit to buying several hundred thousand of them.

Silicondust Support
http://www.silicondust.com


Original Message
From: "David Iacino"
Reply-To: "David Iacino"
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 07:23:51 -0400
To: support@silicondust.com
Subject: HD HomeRun Prime

>Good morning,
>
>I would like to use your subject device as a cable card reader to eliminate my Verizon-supplied fios digital adapter. He is how I need to connect to my TV---not my PC, but to my TV.
>
>The fios RF Cable will feed the HD HomeRun Prime. From there, I need to direct connect to my TV's HDMI Input. How can I accomplish that?
>
>If I cannot do this with HD HomeRun Prime, do you have a device that will do this? I really do not need DVR capabilities, but am willing to accept that in order to interface a cable card reader directly to my 22" Samsung kitchen TV. The TV has inputs for component cables, a USB (for mp3 and JPEG files only), and 2 HDMI inputs.
>
>Thank you in advance for considering my request.
>
>David Iacino

To reiterate Jay Mohr, "Big Yellow one is the SUN!!!"

i.e. nothing that we have not told you before.

If you have a DLNA or DCTIP enabled TV, you would connect coax from Verizon to the SDHRP, insert the CableCard, pair it to the tuner. Connect the tuner to the eithernet port fo your TV (or connect tuner to router, and connect TV to router or switch). Use the DLNA or DCTIP feature of the TV to tune channels.

If you don't have DLNA or DCTIP use a blue ray player, or PlayStation3 to connect between the network and the TV, and then use DLNA/DCTIP feature of the bluRay player to access the tuner.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #21 of 22 Old 11-09-2013, 03:38 PM
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I just picked up a Samsung GX-SM530CF and it looks very promising. It is a CableCard QAM tuner (no ATSC OTA support) with HDMI out. Not tried with a CC yet, will report back when card arrives.

It scanned and identified all the Clear QAM channels on my Frontier FiOS service just fine. Supports Netflix and other streaming services, only tried Netflix so far.

Unit is small, might get one for the kitchen.

Got mine at WalMart for $138. Amazon is back ordered.

http://www.samsung.com/us/support/owners/product/GX-SM530CF/XAA

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post #22 of 22 Old 11-11-2013, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasG View Post

I just picked up a Samsung GX-SM530CF and it looks very promising. It is a CableCard QAM tuner (no ATSC OTA support) with HDMI out. Not tried with a CC yet, will report back when card arrives.

It scanned and identified all the Clear QAM channels on my Frontier FiOS service just fine. Supports Netflix and other streaming services, only tried Netflix so far.

Unit is small, might get one for the kitchen.

Got mine at WalMart for $138. Amazon is back ordered.

http://www.samsung.com/us/support/owners/product/GX-SM530CF/XAA

Pretty neat device. I wonder how it gets the guide? If it is fed from Samsung?

It would be a viable solution for single TV household, or with a provider that offers free CableCards. Once you start to rent multiple CableCards, you are going to find your self paying more and more for each additional CableCard rental.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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