Cable Internet Not getting All of Local Channels. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 08-07-2012, 12:08 AM - Thread Starter
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I heard of this recently, but I've long setup an antenna and amp up on my attic to get the local channels for my TV as we don't watch TV all that much. Previously, I assume my 46" didn't support digital signal but apparently it does since it was a HD Ready TV made by Sharp with no known model # and I'm getting around 50-60% with the amp installed setup and getting local channel such as FOX (4), NBC (5), and sometime but screen tear, and issue such as CBS (11), ABC (8) and PBS (13). Basically, CBS, ABC and PBS are unwatchable while FOX is okay where NBC is great.

--- SKIP if you don't want to see how I work this out)
But I heard from my coworker that if I were to plug in my cable internet's cable into the TV instead, it'll carry the local channels as well as have internet still. So, I set it up this way.

>>>> Cable Internet Modem
Outside Cable Internet (in attic) >>>> 2way Splitter at 5-2000mhz (or something like it)
>>>> TV

I'm aware that using an splitter would cause signal problem or quality, but it's the only way that I'm aware of to keep TV and internet to work at once. Of course, the splitter's at the attic and need to be carry down to the wall, and than from the wall to the cable modem and tv. But I think that's normal, so I don't bother.

----Results, Don't skip ----
And what's the result? My internet works fine, and my TV after spending a while scanning got around 135 channels. The problem is that probably only 10-20 of those channels work, and not all of the local channel. The rest of the channels show a blank screen when going over to those channels. I got the ABC (8) and CBS (11) as well as the PBS (13) as the sub station like ABC is channel 8 while there's 8.1, 8.2,etc. Those works, except I couldn't get FOX (4) and NBC (5) because it only shows white static. Opposite of what I had previously working with antenna.

The only information that I'm aware of while the TV shows ABC, CBS and PBS as DIGITAL while if I go to Fox and NBC, it shows nothing but white static with ANALOG displayed. I'm not sure what that mean. On the antenna, I had them all as digital though I don't get ABC or CBS often time without consistent skipping and issues. The signal issue was fine, I was getting 80% signal power but it also shows 80% power on the channel that's 'available' with blank screens.

Anyone know? I wouldn't mind getting rid of the antenna and amp to save some money but unless I can get ABC, NBC (Olympic only really), CBS, ABC and PBS, I'm not really going to be satisfied.
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post #2 of 28 Old 08-07-2012, 05:17 AM
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If you are a Internet only subscriber and you connect your TV and recieve service without the cable companys permission this would make you a thief. If you want tv service from source other than OTA you need to pay for it.
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post #3 of 28 Old 08-07-2012, 05:48 AM
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Samuez ... FYI, to subscribe to local cable usually costs very little, and may even reduce your Internet rate. In my case, the splitter they gave me has specific taps for Internet and TV, though I don't know how it's different from a common splitter.

Sounds like your other problems, OTA and cable, stem from signal strength issues. Digital has a fairly narrow range of signal strengths where it works poorly; above that the picture's fine, below that it's gone. Work on that.
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post #4 of 28 Old 08-07-2012, 07:06 AM
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Sounds like you didn't setup your TV to scan for digital channels (QAM). Most likely, it is looking for analog channels, which, of course, aren't there.

If your TV set is new enough (made within the past 6 years), it will have a digital tuner in it (in addition to the regular tuner). Go into the menu and tell it to look for digital TV signals. When it scans, you'll see numbers like 83-2, 208-36, and so on. Just odd-looking channel numbers. The vast majority of what it finds will be encrypted, so it won't display anything. You should be able to watch, at a minimum, your local channel, though. Those are what is known as "Clear QAM" channels. Depending on your system, there may be other clear QAM channels as well.

CIAO!

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post #5 of 28 Old 08-07-2012, 09:39 AM
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If you are not subscribing to TV service and only pay for internet service, by connecting TV to the cable, you are commiting cable theft.

It is no different than me coming over to your house with a long extention cord and plugging it into your outdoor outlets, and saying that the "electricity is just there" for me to take it.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #6 of 28 Old 08-07-2012, 10:59 AM
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I don't know which provider the OP uses. but the "cable theft:" BS gets old. rolleyes.gif

Most cableco's send locals "in the clear" (unencrypted). If you happen to have a QAM tuner in your TV, go for it. If they don't encrypt... that's their problem.

I don't know if it's still subscription policy (in regard to Comcast), but as mentioned earlier, sometimes internet and lifeline basic is a lower monthly rate.

It would really help if the OP provides info in regard to the make/model of the TV, location, and cable provider.
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post #7 of 28 Old 08-07-2012, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

I don't know which provider the OP uses. but the "cable theft:" BS gets old. rolleyes.gif
Most cableco's send locals "in the clear" (unencrypted). If you happen to have a QAM tuner in your TV, go for it. If they don't encrypt... that's their problem.
I don't know if it's still subscription policy (in regard to Comcast), but as mentioned earlier, sometimes internet and lifeline basic is a lower monthly rate.
It would really help if the OP provides info in regard to the make/model of the TV, location, and cable provider.

Agreed, when the coax line enters the demarcation point of the customers home they are free to do what they want with their internal wiring, but if it cause's leakage issue's and or return path issue's be ready for a door tag request to fix such a problem. Other that enjoy what they send out to you, keep in mind that some traps (filters) remove some Clear QAM's/analog channels depending upon your system.

All Comments made are my own and not of my employer.
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post #8 of 28 Old 08-07-2012, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybsane View Post

Agreed, when the coax line enters the demarcation point of the customers home they are free to do what they want with their internal wiring...
So, years ago if you lived in a system that used a positive trap system for their premiums and you acquired positive filters for those channels that was okay? Or in a system that sync scrambled theirs, if you bought a black-market box, it was alright?

CIAO!

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post #9 of 28 Old 08-07-2012, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egnlsn View Post

So, years ago if you lived in a system that used a positive trap system for their premiums and you acquired positive filters for those channels that was okay? Or in a system that sync scrambled theirs, if you bought a black-market box, it was alright?

Here is the problem, you are comparing purchasing and or acquiring an unlawful device (black market box) which was used for Premium channels to getting basic analog/digital channels. rolleyes.gif The way the law is worded it is up to the Provider (Cable Company) to filter the channels the subscriber should and should not receive, with Docsis forward levels depending where they are in the spectrum this can be easy or difficult with a trap (filter). If a subscriber hooks up their TV and acquires basic channels analog and or digital but are paying for Docsis internet what are they doing wrong.? The signal is reaching their home wiring lawfully and no illegal device is used to receive it.

All Comments made are my own and not of my employer.
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post #10 of 28 Old 08-07-2012, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

I don't know which provider the OP uses. but the "cable theft:" BS gets old. rolleyes.gif
Most cableco's send locals "in the clear" (unencrypted). If you happen to have a QAM tuner in your TV, go for it. If they don't encrypt... that's their problem.
I don't know if it's still subscription policy (in regard to Comcast), but as mentioned earlier, sometimes internet and lifeline basic is a lower monthly rate.
It would really help if the OP provides info in regard to the make/model of the TV, location, and cable provider.
If someone leaves an item unsecured its still not legal for you take that item. This is the problem with the world today there is no moral character left. Have you checked out the Bait Car show? If you can just take things shouldn't a car running with the door standing open fall into this catagory? Bottom line is if you take a product with out consent you are a thief.
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post #11 of 28 Old 08-07-2012, 02:20 PM
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Have you not read numerous threads about clear QAM and internet only? This has been discussed many times over the last few years.
It's 2012. The cableco's do not typically install filters or traps to block reception anymore. It's not cost effective for hardware costs or truck rolls . Subscription is contolled at the headend.

This is not a moraliity thread. It's reality and it gets tiring continually reading with people being called "thieves" and threatened.

Again... read the past posts (in this and previously posted threads) and you will become more informed.
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post #12 of 28 Old 08-07-2012, 02:39 PM
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If it were not a issue then why does Charter have over 10 opening with this job title?

Job Description
 
Plant Security Investigator(Job Number: 1203584)
Description
 
 
COMPANY OVERVIEW
Join Charter and live the career you’re wired for.
At Charter, we are a growing and dynamic $7+ billion Fortune 500 organization with 17,000 employees strong. Our goal is to be America’s #1 service organization in advanced video, high-speed internet and telephone service – and we need talented people like you to deliver that exceptional and unmatched experience for our customers. Join us, and be connected to a collaborative workplace where everyone plays an important role and where you can make an impact – on your career, our growing company, and our 5+ million customers.
 
SUMMARY
The Plant Security Investigator support the company’s Plant Security Program by investigating claims of unauthorized connections to Charter services, collecting evidence, preparing and presenting evidence for potential prosecution, and pursuing appropriate course of action with individuals engaged in unethical activity.
 
The position will work with law enforcement agencies, attorneys, courts and other related agencies regarding criminal prosecution and/or civil litigation for theft of cable service, and will provide testimony as needed in both civil and criminal proceedings.
 
The Plant Security Investigator will use measuring devices, gaffs, safety harnesses, ladders, test equipment, PDAs, smart phones, routers, modems, converters, and wireless devices.  
 
The Plant Security Investigator will travel (including during inclement weather) to and from assigned territories and company facilities.  The successful candidate will have a personal vehicle to travel within the assigned territory, a current valid drivers’ license and satisfactory motor vehicle report.

BASIC QUALIFICATIONS
·         18 years of age or older
·         Current valid driver’s license
·         Must have bachelor’s degree or minimum of 2 years’ work experience
·         Must have a minimum of 2 years’ experience in law enforcement/investigation training
 
PREFERRED QUALIFICATIONS
·         1+ year of technical work experience
·         Industry and vendor specific certifications and training (NCTI, SCTE)
·         Ability to handle confidential information
·         Ability to prioritize and organize effectively
·         Knowledge of cable or telecommunications services
·         Knowledge of basic mathematics and electronics
·         Experience with consumer education of products and services

 
WORKING CONDITIONS
·         Office work and field work which may include standing 50 - 70% of the time and working indoors in confined space, poorly ventilated areas such as attics, basements and/or crawlspaces  
·         Exposure to dust, dirt, noise, insects, rodents, pets, and cleaning solutions
·         Work outdoors in all kinds of weather and at all times of the day or night
·         Work performed near power lines and electricity
·         Work performed at various heights above ground on telephone/power poles
·         Work and travel in inclement weather
·         Ocassionally required to work overtime as the business needs dictate
 
Charter is an equal opportunity employer.
And I'm well informed as I have worked in the industry for over 20 yrs and a published subject matter expert with the SCTE. Thank You Very Much.
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post #13 of 28 Old 08-07-2012, 04:35 PM
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LOL... sounds like you potentially have a new career on the horizon.biggrin.gif
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post #14 of 28 Old 08-07-2012, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Eh, that's strong. All of these responses, I mean. I'm not here to talk about morality of what I'm doing since I'm not knowledgeable enough about the issue to talk first hand about it. I'm just here to get some freaking local channel instead of relying on my OTA antenna that doesn't work on some channels.

And thanks for all of the useful response about this issue, here's some more information that I forgot to put down.

I'm using Time Warner Cable's Roadrunner service for cable internet. If I were to add the basic cable with my standard plan, it'll be an additonal $10 or $20, I'm not sure. It's say that I have the standard plan for $29.99 since I'm paying that price for the 10Mbps but instead I actually got 20-25Mbps when running test. But the only bundle I see for TV and cable internet is $49.99 for 20Mbps and basic cable. Not ideal, ya?

My TV was purchased sometime around black friday maybe 5-7 years ago. It can received digital signal as I'd just discovered recently. And when I'm scanning for the channels, it asked for "Air" or "Cable". I selected cable since I previously selected Air for the antenna and there's 2 option "scan digital and analog" or "scan analog", that's it. I selected the 1st option and got the ABC, CBS and PBS working on digital but the Fox and NBC shown as analog. If I'm worry about signal problem, since it's at 80% or so, I can use the amp that I got already and hook it up to check it out.

When I first got cable internet, they were the only provider in the area to offer it and the only other option was DSL but we don't have a home phone line anymore, so. When they came to installed it, I think they had to dig a new line in because they was fresh dirt on the area where the cable came in. The previous owner used a dish for their TV, I'm not sure about the internet.

Thanks for all the great responses. And if there's a previous thread that can offer more help, I'll be glad to check it out. I was just looking through the past 3-5 page count of threads to see if there's any more of this problem at first. But google doesn't seem to help me all that much.
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post #15 of 28 Old 08-07-2012, 08:01 PM
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The real problem with unpaying cable subs is it's going to force the cable companies hand. It already has in NYC where they've been allowed to scramble even the locals. 'Sneaky Bastages' like you will eventually force every system to scramble it all and require me, a legitimate subscriber, to need a cable box. THAT's why guys like you piss me off.
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post #16 of 28 Old 08-08-2012, 04:35 AM
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The sad reality is that it's probable that providers will eventually encrypt everything anyway.
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post #17 of 28 Old 08-08-2012, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samuez View Post

I'm just here to get some freaking local channel instead of relying on my OTA antenna that doesn't work on some channels..

As mentioned, the only thing to do is run a scan using the TV's digital tuner. Once that is done, you're getting all the channels you will ever get with your current cable subscription. On Internet-only cable setups, sometimes they send a few clear QAM channels, sometimes they send none. It's a crapshoot, and there isn't anything more you can do.

It sounds like you need a taller antenna for OTA. If you live some distance from the transmitters, you may need a rooftop or outside tower, depending on where you're at (you may only need the tower if you live in the sticks, though.)

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post #18 of 28 Old 08-08-2012, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by ybsane View Post

Agreed, when the coax line enters the demarcation point of the customers home they are free to do what they want with their internal wiring, but if it cause's leakage issue's and or return path issue's be ready for a door tag request to fix such a problem. Other that enjoy what they send out to you, keep in mind that some traps (filters) remove some Clear QAM's/analog channels depending upon your system.

The reason it is not encrypted is because FCC mandated that cable compnies can not encrypt it. But, thanks to people who STEAL cable, CableVision has won an approval to encrypt locals as well, and main reason FCC allowed them is Cable Service Theft.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #19 of 28 Old 08-08-2012, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samuez View Post

Eh, that's strong. All of these responses, I mean. I'm not here to talk about morality of what I'm doing since I'm not knowledgeable enough about the issue to talk first hand about it. I'm just here to get some freaking local channel instead of relying on my OTA antenna that doesn't work on some channels.
And thanks for all of the useful response about this issue, here's some more information that I forgot to put down.
I'm using Time Warner Cable's Roadrunner service for cable internet. If I were to add the basic cable with my standard plan, it'll be an additonal $10 or $20, I'm not sure. It's say that I have the standard plan for $29.99 since I'm paying that price for the 10Mbps but instead I actually got 20-25Mbps when running test. But the only bundle I see for TV and cable internet is $49.99 for 20Mbps and basic cable. Not ideal, ya?
My TV was purchased sometime around black friday maybe 5-7 years ago. It can received digital signal as I'd just discovered recently. And when I'm scanning for the channels, it asked for "Air" or "Cable". I selected cable since I previously selected Air for the antenna and there's 2 option "scan digital and analog" or "scan analog", that's it. I selected the 1st option and got the ABC, CBS and PBS working on digital but the Fox and NBC shown as analog. If I'm worry about signal problem, since it's at 80% or so, I can use the amp that I got already and hook it up to check it out.
When I first got cable internet, they were the only provider in the area to offer it and the only other option was DSL but we don't have a home phone line anymore, so. When they came to installed it, I think they had to dig a new line in because they was fresh dirt on the area where the cable came in. The previous owner used a dish for their TV, I'm not sure about the internet.
Thanks for all the great responses. And if there's a previous thread that can offer more help, I'll be glad to check it out. I was just looking through the past 3-5 page count of threads to see if there's any more of this problem at first. But google doesn't seem to help me all that much.

Problem is that if you look up on top it clearly says that "No cable theft talk allowed" and what you are asking is clearly Cable Theft since you are tyring to receive services that you have not paid for. Jus tlike AVS forums, whoever posts a suggestion to your query is libale in the legal sense as accessory to theft.

If you want TV and don't want to use the FREE TV availabe, or don't want to invest in the equipment needed to make FREE TV an viable option, then pay $10/month to get TV from your cable provider, rather than stealing it.

Whether you buy a black box, FM traps, illegals cable or satellite cards, or a piece of cable to connect TV to the wall, it is all the same in the eyes of the law, you aquired a piece of equipment to receive services that you are not entitled to.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #20 of 28 Old 08-08-2012, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by samuez View Post

I'm using Time Warner Cable's Roadrunner service for cable internet. If I were to add the basic cable with my standard plan, it'll be an additonal $10 or $20...
While adding video does add that cost, usually there is a $10-15 discount for bundled services. Adding something such as limited basic could increase the overall cost by only 2 or 3 bux.

CIAO!

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post #21 of 28 Old 08-08-2012, 11:30 AM
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Providers differ in their offerings/bundles depeding on the area(s). So, I apologize to the the cable evangelists. But, if you (the cableco) send "stuff" in the clear, that's their problem.

The guy did not buy a "black box", did not splice into the neighbor's feed, did not break into a PED, did not climb a pole, etc....

NYC and Cablevision is an exception, not the rule. City life...... it's a jungle out there. wink.gif

Sue me for speaking about reality and not being hung up on morality. rolleyes.gif
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post #22 of 28 Old 08-08-2012, 11:55 AM
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We know that are Clear QAM's are passed thru with our Basic-Broadcast Trap and if Customer's pick them up so be it. But I am sure someone will correct me on here because they feel I am in the wrong some how...wink.gif For clarification it is a 50-550 mhz filter and are Clear QAM's are next to the Docsis downstream QAM's so they make it thru.

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post #23 of 28 Old 08-08-2012, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egnlsn View Post

While adding video does add that cost, usually there is a $10-15 discount for bundled services. Adding something such as limited basic could increase the overall cost by only 2 or 3 bux.

It depends. I tried to get basic cable and internet only when my original sign-up rate expired, and it was cheaper to stick to the full digital tier/Internet I already had (though it was a bit more than what the promotional period was.) Still trying to figure out that one.

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post #24 of 28 Old 08-08-2012, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the response. And for those who are calling me a thief and/or defending my action.

Oh well.

I'm done, there's nothing much I can do anyway. I'm just gonna stick to my antenna until NBC's Olympics done than maybe work on the cable internet. But for what it's worth, there's not much I can do beside trying to amp the signal, change splitter or by a new TV. Thanks for all of the responses, I'll just call this a loss for now and shelve it. It's not like I'll need to spent another $200 to get OTA working in the first place alongside with routing the house.

Now, I just gotta close this thread...
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post #25 of 28 Old 08-14-2012, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybsane View Post

We know that are Clear QAM's are passed thru with our Basic-Broadcast Trap and if Customer's pick them up so be it. But I am sure someone will correct me on here because they feel I am in the wrong some how...wink.gif For clarification it is a 50-550 mhz filter and are Clear QAM's are next to the Docsis downstream QAM's so they make it thru.

My sister and her husband thought they were slick. They have CableVision in Montville, NJ. They subscribe to CableVision's tirple play, but only with 1 TV out of 5 connected. They thought that by having 1 TV they could get basic TV on other set, but... CableVision has either dropped analog or is encrypting everything now. I haven't had a chance to see what exactly is going on. They called me asking me why their other TV's are only showing "snow"

My guess is that CableVisions phased out analog, since when they called CableVision to inquire, they were offered free boxes for 1 year for other TV's.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #26 of 28 Old 08-14-2012, 11:18 AM
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If they get "snow", then:
1) CV has dropped analog
2) they don't have QAM tuners in the other TV's
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post #27 of 28 Old 08-15-2012, 12:56 PM
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TWC just sent me a letter saying they're moving a few channels to digital, and offering a standard def box for free (until Dec 2013) to get those channels. They also said a couple were still available in the clear on QAM. None of the channels appealed to me (C-span, Lifetime Movie, etc.) But all the remaining analogs were untouched. So I guess until at least 2013 TWC will keep their analog band.

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post #28 of 28 Old 08-18-2012, 11:39 AM
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rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueiedgod View Post

The reason it is not encrypted is because FCC mandated that cable compnies can not encrypt it. But, thanks to people who STEAL cable, CableVision has won an approval to encrypt locals as well, and main reason FCC allowed them is Cable Service Theft.
LOL the FCC couldn't care less about some cable or satellite provider's piracy problems LOL ........... now on the other hand if someone were to try an over-the-limit unlicensed pirate radio broadcast they have more than enough licensed-to-carry people available.
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