Problem using splitter/amplifier with FiOS - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 06:39 AM
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The original poster has described problems that occur when he increases his passive loss between his media cabinet boxes to 21dB of splitter loss plus the coax loss. Ed's estimate of a couple of dB of such losses at the return frequencies and 5 to 6 dB at the upper channel frequencies is reasonable for about a hundred feet of coax length. I don't know enough about FIOS to know whether the further upstream losses that oleteddy is introducing into this equation matter with a FIOS system, or if the return signals from the FIOS set top boxes only have to make it to their point of entry mounted box and then that box communicates with the plant with return signals it generates itself, but it sounds like original poster says that the offer from the cable company is to run him a new line from the pole to the media cabinet for $260, and as I see it, he can reduce his loss in both directions by about 7dB just by starting with a 3 way balanced as his first split and a -9dB directional coupler in the garage. That will get his media closet boxes the same passive loss level they now have when he connects them directly to the media closet line and they work at that level. All for $5 in parts.

If he wants to go with an amp solution, then he should install the weakest two way amp he can find at the media closet. If someone makes one that amplifies 10dB each way, that is what he should use. I once had a return signal level problem in a Ramada hotel using an antiquated PPV system (Spectravision), and I put a couple of TV.sub band splitters and a Radio Shack 10dB bullet amp on the return line and that fixed it.
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post #32 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybsane View Post

Am I the only one who understands that he is using a Verizon Fios GPON system with an ONT at the side of his house.?
On the house side of the ONT, the RF distribution is the same as that of a conventional CATV system. 21dB of loss is 21dB of loss, regardless of the type of service. If they are that intolerant of signal level in the return path, perhaps he does need to compensate for all that loss by amplifying the return path.

CIAO!

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post #33 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 07:00 AM
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It would depend on if he has the new Alcatel Lucent system which uses the ONT as a Gateway or the older AFC which uses a 1610 RF return. If it is the AFC model than it would support SCTE 55-1,55-2 and Docsis like a normal HFC system giving over 35dbmv of return headroom, since the ONT can work with a +15dbmv input and it is not sampling or processing the return signals there should be no problem. Sounds to me like there are more problems in the OP's home and more to the story of where the cost of x-amount to repair comes from with out an onsite visit by Verizon..?confused.gif

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post #34 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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another solution i was thinking is that since im able to split off my gym into a 2 way and both boxes work, can i just install 2 ways from each feed coming into the house and just have a bunch of coax's going to my media closet? a bit messy but better than verizon having to tear apart my wall to feed a wire upstairs and charge me an arm and a leg.

if i can use an active amp, which one would you recommend?
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post #35 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntAltMike View Post

If he wants to go with an amp solution, then he should install the weakest two way amp he can find at the media closet. If someone makes one that amplifies 10dB each way, that is what he should use. I once had a return signal level problem in a Ramada hotel using an antiquated PPV system (spectravision), and I put a couple of TV.sub band splitters and a radio Shack 10dB bullet amp on the return line and that fixed it.
Holland makes a drop amp that has an active return and is adjustable both ways. The forward path is adjustable from +15 to -5dB gain, while the return path is adjustable from +10 to -8dB gain. HCDA1-FRA-AG is the model number.

CIAO!

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post #36 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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wait a minute im such an IDIOT! fios doesnt even do my internet, only my cable TV, i have brighthouse doing my internet!!! how does that affect everything?
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post #37 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 07:23 AM
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That's quite a development. However, the guide and VOD are cable TV, not internet.

CIAO!

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post #38 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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i still see a verizon modem, so i dont know what that is hooked up to at all...maybe for the VOD/Guide though...anyways im going to try break into the box again, if any1 has any input on how to do it, it would be great. its got like this long cylander type lock, looks like an RF output lol, the manufactuer is MultiLlink
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post #39 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hvtopiwala View Post

wait a minute im such an IDIOT! fios doesnt even do my internet, only my cable TV, i have brighthouse doing my internet!!! how does that affect everything?

You need to keep the two separate from the demarcation outside to each device inside your house.

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post #40 of 51 Old 12-30-2012, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybsane View Post

Am I the only one who understands that he is using a Verizon Fios GPON system with an ONT at the side of his house.? His video is RF Overlay QAM and Ethernet out of the ONT for internet service, The ONT is the gateway for WHDVR and there is very little tolerance in the return path for bad wiring,connectors and splitters. If the OP has gone too far with his wiring scheme and can not make his video work than needs to have Verizon come fix what is broken.
My bad. I missed that it was Fiber to the house. My loss info applies to CATV (Fiber to the node, RF for the last mile).
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post #41 of 51 Old 01-01-2013, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybsane View Post

The ONT is the gateway for WHDVR and there is very little tolerance in the return path for bad wiring,connectors and splitters. If the OP has gone too far with his wiring scheme and can not make his video work than needs to have Verizon come fix what is broken.

So what loss budgets is the customer working with? What is the return signal's level leaving the tuner/decoder box, and what level does it have to reach the ONT (Optiical Network Terminal: the fiber-to-coax entry box) at for the system to pass its QC installation spec?

Is WHDVR a Whole House DVR that works like the DirecTV ones, sending signal laterally, through "output ports" on splitters that are certified to have guaranteed maximim isolation figures? Even if that is the case here, I don't see how inter-box communication problems would result in the tuner box problems reported here. As I recall, the DirecTV system has something like 45dB of lateral or box-to-box loss budget, and occasionally encounters problems if the system doesn't use the 'green label" splitters that don't seem to have been engineered in any mysterious way but which might have been tested just to make sure they don't have excessively high port-to-port isolation.
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post #42 of 51 Old 01-09-2013, 04:17 PM
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Verizon Fios provides program guide and VOD through moca network with Verizon provided router. If you have another internet provider their modem can not be in the same coax network. Any amplifiers need to be a moca amp.










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post #43 of 51 Old 02-06-2013, 08:51 AM
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The photo shows a 1Ghz splitter. I understand these are insufficient for digital cable TV as well as cable modems.
Improvement may be achieved by using a splitter rated/designed for 2Ghz.
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post #44 of 51 Old 02-06-2013, 08:54 AM
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The photo shows a 1Ghz splitter. I understand these are insufficient for digital cable TV as well as cable modems.

You misunderstand...what cable system goes over 1GHz?
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post #45 of 51 Old 02-06-2013, 09:32 AM
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Sam64, I'll sit corrected here... The original person can try the "better" splitter if he likes, even if it's unlikely or 'impossible' that it can help...
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post #46 of 51 Old 02-06-2013, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hvtopiwala View Post

ok so we installed a centralized media closet with all 4 Verizon Fios cable boxes. I took a drop from one of the rooms and moved it into the media closet. i then tried using a 4 way digital spliter....all the TV's have picture, but none of them have a Guide or on demand as each box isnt getting an internet connection. So i removed the 4 way splitter and installed the drop direcftly to one box and it works fine, get the guide/VOD and everything....so i thought it might be a weak signal so i purchased a 4way amplifier....and same problem! is there anything i can do to split this drop 4 ways? oh the wire that i dopped into the media closet is coming out of a 2way splitter from our Gym (the gym gets the guide/VOD and evertyhing else too)...so the problem lies with splitting it in the media closet. i also tried just splitting it 2 ways and i had the same problem in the closet. i hope this all makes sense!

Seems like a very complicated attempt to centralize cable boxes. How are cable boxes controlled? IR-to-RF-to-IR?

Verizon FiOS sends Guide and VOD over Internet using MoCA connection. There is no modem with Verizon.

Look into getting a CableCard tuner, and an HTPC to tie it all together without the need to rent 4 boxes. Once the signal is decrypted by the CableCard tuner, you can distribute it throughout the house via Eithernet or MoCA to up to 6 TV's. Each TV will have DVR capability and play your digital content, as well as live and recorded TV with a unified guide and recording schedule/library.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #47 of 51 Old 02-06-2013, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM64 View Post

You misunderstand...what cable system goes over 1GHz?

MOCA runs over 1-Ghz, not the actual cable system but internally in a customers home.

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post #48 of 51 Old 02-06-2013, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybsane View Post

MOCA runs over 1-Ghz, not the actual cable system but internally in a customers home.
In the 850MHz-1.5GHz range.

CIAO!

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post #49 of 51 Old 02-07-2013, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by egnlsn View Post

In the 850MHz-1.5GHz range.

MOCA 2.0 is now 500 MHz to 1650 MHz, The majority of cable companies are using 900 MHz > considering that a good amount are 862 MHz. systems.

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post #50 of 51 Old 02-07-2013, 09:36 PM
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Good to know. smile.gif

CIAO!

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post #51 of 51 Old 02-08-2013, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybsane View Post

MOCA 2.0 is now 500 MHz to 1650 MHz, The majority of cable companies are using 900 MHz > considering that a good amount are 862 MHz. systems.

I am having hard time finding decently priced MoCA 1.1 devices. Are there MoCA 2.0 devices out?

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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