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post #31 of 55 Old 03-16-2007, 02:05 PM
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As an analog only and HBO subscriber for 25 years with no box required, why should I (or anyone else in the same situation) pay more for the same service? (assuming I don't care about VOD, music channels, channel guides, etc.)

Also... why do I have to forced to add hardware/features at my expense that I don't desire? The $$ is not the 'major' concern. It's the priciple. Why do I have to pay to (in reality) subsidize to free up bandwidth constraints so Comcast can add VoIP and other newer features?

There should be "grandfathered" exception to long term subscribers. I can live with the doubling of channels (initially 35 to 70), but the subscription from (from $8.00 to $60) just doesn't sit well now that they want to suck more from my wallet for stuff I don't desire.
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post #32 of 55 Old 03-16-2007, 02:23 PM
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But the problem is, cable had too many people pirating their Premium Channel signals with the non-digital boxes. So for security, they required everyone to go to digital if they wanted any premium channels, the commercial free 24x7 music stations, and VOD.

If Comcast was not a Monopoly and Sticking to the People on pricing. I think there would be less people Pirating the channels. The People I have talk to say the only reason they are Pirating channels is that Comcast is charging to much for them!!!!!
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post #33 of 55 Old 03-16-2007, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

As an analog only and HBO subscriber for 25 years with no box required, why should I (or anyone else in the same situation) pay more for the same service? (assuming I don't care about VOD, music channels, channel guides, etc.)

Also... why do I have to forced to add hardware/features at my expense that I don't desire? The $$ is not the 'major' concern. It's the priciple. Why do I have to pay to (in reality) subsidize to free up bandwidth constraints so Comcast can add VoIP and other newer features?

There should be "grandfathered" exception to long term subscribers. I can live with the doubling of channels (initially 35 to 70), but the subscription from (from $8.00 to $60) just doesn't sit well now that they want to suck more from my wallet for stuff I don't desire.

You conspicously left out, that a given Premium goes from one channel to ~nine channels (you said you don't care about its OnDemand content).
I am sure you will say you would be happy with staying with one channel of a Premium service, too.

And you aren't forced to do anything.
If you don't like it you are free to cancel your Premium sub or your entire sub.
If you have line-of-sight, you can get DirecTv or Dish, and eventually Verizon or other FIOS, if it isn't already available, to get the same Premium(s)....with, you guessed it, a box.

Look I understand your frustration, but there is no way to 'grandfather' something like this.
They need the bandwith and the security, so they have to move forward.

BTW, in the past, all Premiums required a box rental here, then they went boxless on all but one.
Now it is a very small box, as I said, for all.
Or a CableCard, but they can be troublesome, if you even have one of those TVs.
For a Premium, Comcast provides free CableCards.

Eventually there will probably be DCAS, so no box, but you would need all new TVs.
I know that isn't a solution for legacy TVs, the Motorola DCT-700 is the about the smallest box one could expect.
I don't know what SA uses.

Wait until they drop 'Expanded' from Analog, likely in 2/09 or earlier, thus requiring a Digital Box.
A lot of people will be complaining, only being able to get 'Basic' w/o a box.
And even Basic will be discontinued from Analog, eventually.
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post #34 of 55 Old 03-16-2007, 04:22 PM
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You totally miss the point I'm trying to make.

In 1982.... 30 analog cable channels @ $8.00
In 2002 .... 70 analog channels @ $45.00

In 1982... HBO analog $5.00
in 2002... HBO analog $15.00

Now... 2007:
I don't want an external box and never needed one (in my area). I don't want the extra HBO "fluff" (three HBO's is fine... don't need ~9), I don't want VOD or any other 'digital' offerings. Nor.... do I want to forced to pay for additional hardware/channels/services that I do not desire. I would simply like the same service/channels that I have been content with for 25 years. That simple!

As I said I understand technology moves on... but don't feel that I need to suffer/subsidize new cable offerings.

I'm a big boy and will deal with it. It doesn't mean that I have to like it.

From a business perspective, one could say that they don't care about my business since I"m just a 'minimal' subscriber. But, in reality, I'm an easy $150 a month revenue to them. If they want to force me to cancel... so be it.
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post #35 of 55 Old 03-16-2007, 08:54 PM
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You want HBO without a box?

Get a newer set with a cable card slot.
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post #36 of 55 Old 03-17-2007, 12:37 AM
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Quote:


Now... 2007:
I don't want an external box and never needed one (in my area). I don't want the extra HBO "fluff" (three HBO's is fine... don't need ~9), I don't want VOD or any other 'digital' offerings. Nor.... do I want to forced to pay for additional hardware/channels/services that I do not desire. I would simply like the same service/channels that I have been content with for 25 years. That simple!

Usually the cable company will make a deal where you don't have to pay more to upgrade. If that's not the case where you live I'm sorry.

Quote:


From a business perspective, one could say that they don't care about my business since I"m just a 'minimal' subscriber. But, in reality, I'm an easy $150 a month revenue to them. If they want to force me to cancel... so be it.

I am curious how you provide $150 a month in revenue to 'them' without a box. Everyone knows that's how they make money.

Quote:


I'm a big boy and will deal with it. It doesn't mean that I have to like it.

I hope your sacrifice will pay off. And honestly I guess I would be upset too. But theres at least two HD channels that can replace the one HBO, and those HD channels look really nice on my 48in SD set.
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post #37 of 55 Old 03-17-2007, 03:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

You conspicously left out, that a given Premium goes from one channel to ~nine channels (you said you don't care about its OnDemand content).
I am sure you will say you would be happy with staying with one channel of a Premium service, too.

And you aren't forced to do anything.
If you don't like it you are free to cancel your Premium sub or your entire sub.
If you have line-of-sight, you can get DirecTv or Dish, and eventually Verizon or other FIOS, if it isn't already available, to get the same Premium(s)....with, you guessed it, a box.

Look I understand your frustration, but there is no way to 'grandfather' something like this.
They need the bandwith and the security, so they have to move forward.

BTW, in the past, all Premiums required a box rental here, then they went boxless on all but one.
Now it is a very small box, as I said, for all.
Or a CableCard, but they can be troublesome, if you even have one of those TVs.
For a Premium, Comcast provides free CableCards.

Eventually there will probably be DCAS, so no box, but you would need all new TVs.
I know that isn't a solution for legacy TVs, the Motorola DCT-700 is the about the smallest box one could expect.
I don't know what SA uses.

Wait until they drop 'Expanded' from Analog, likely in 2/09 or earlier, thus requiring a Digital Box.
A lot of people will be complaining, only being able to get 'Basic' w/o a box.
And even Basic will be discontinued from Analog, eventually.

Must work for Comcast
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post #38 of 55 Old 03-17-2007, 04:35 AM
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Also, I noticed that a lot of people on this forum assume that (the first) cablecard is always free, because it is in their area. This is not true, as we get charged the same rate for it as the box here. Same goes for the package rates. We're at the high end with those, too. Extended basic is something like $52.69 (before taxes) now here. That's utterly outrageous, for what basically amounts to a bunch of cheaply made, crappy reality shows and old sitcom reruns.

(And in case anyone's response to this is "Just drop them." - I did - a little over two years ago, when I finally had it with the constant price increases, crappy service, decline of programming quality and increasing "re-running" of content. Only problem is, my SD satellite channels have now reached the point of becoming almost unwatchable due to the excessive compression, and I'm out of options as far as providers.)
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post #39 of 55 Old 03-17-2007, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

Or a CableCard, but they can be troublesome, if you even have one of those TVs.
For a Premium, Comcast provides free CableCards.

I love that part, for a charge (Premium) will lease them to you for free.
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post #40 of 55 Old 03-17-2007, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Daniel Murray View Post

Must work for Comcast

Wrong.
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post #41 of 55 Old 03-17-2007, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by QZ1
Or a CableCard, but they can be troublesome, if you even have one of those TVs.
For a Premium, Comcast provides free CableCards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boo View Post

I love that part, for a charge (Premium) will lease them to you for free.

No, that means for a Premium service (multi-plexed movie channels), they provide a free CableCard.
In fact, any service that is priced without a box (whether it doesn't need one or it does), gets a free CC.

Those services that are priced with a box, the CC is nominally free, but in reality it costs the same as the non-itemized included box, which is $4.15.
(The actual box fee is known, because it is listed for other services that don't include the box, but need one.)
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post #42 of 55 Old 03-17-2007, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Also, I noticed that a lot of people on this forum assume that (the first) cablecard is always free, because it is in their area. This is not true, as we get charged the same rate for it as the box here.

I agree with that. In fact, here, even nominally free CCs can cost as much as the box, when the box is included, but non-itemized.
For what seem to be the more common service choices, like Digital Plus and a Premium(s), the CC does indeed cost as much as a Box.
For Standard they are $1.
But sometimes, like for Basic and a Premium (and/or Sports and others), they are actually free.
Of course, this all can and does vary by area.
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post #43 of 55 Old 03-17-2007, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

You totally miss the point I'm trying to make.
In 1982.... 30 analog cable channels @ $8.00
In 2002 .... 70 analog channels @ $45.00
In 1982... HBO analog $5.00
in 2002... HBO analog $15.00
Now... 2007:
I don't want an external box and never needed one (in my area). I don't want the extra HBO "fluff" (three HBO's is fine... don't need ~9), I don't want VOD or any other 'digital' offerings. Nor.... do I want to forced to pay for additional hardware/channels/services that I do not desire. I would simply like the same service/channels that I have been content with for 25 years. That simple!

As I said I understand technology moves on... but don't feel that I need to suffer/subsidize new cable offerings.

I'm a big boy and will deal with it. It doesn't mean that I have to like it.

From a business perspective, one could say that they don't care about my business since I"m just a 'minimal' subscriber. But, in reality, I'm an easy $150 a month revenue to them. If they want to force me to cancel... so be it.

I understand your point, that you don't like subsidizing Cable's Digital transition, and having a box, and don't care about the extra channels, that you want the status quo.

I made my point, that I don't think it is a big deal for various reasons.

Obviously, you still disagree, that's fine.

As I said before:
"Look I understand your frustration, but there is no way to 'grandfather' something like this. "

All I can say, if you want to stay with Comcast, you could complain to the LFA and the FCC, but I doubt it would help.

I used to be very-anti cable box.
But now I am resigned to having a box in every room, until I can get a TV that is Interactive Digital Cable Ready, for each room that I don't want to have a box.

I agree that Cable TV is way overpriced, but what are the alternatives?

Sure one can get an antenna and have great HD Locals, but that's it.
As I said before, this is just the beginning for the Digital conversion for Cable, as 'Expanded' will be dropped from Analog, in less than two years.

So, if one goes Satellite, one needs a box for everything, and gets HD Lite for the privledge.
If one can even get FIOS, it requires a Box for all but Basic, just like Cable will be, but isn't yet.
(Although Cable and FIOS can use CableCards)

Right now, because of HD quality, I put up with Comcast.
But as soon as Verizon FIOS gets here, assuming their quality and reliability stays the same, I will be switching.
I have read that their SD quality is better, HD is a bit better, and price is much better.
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post #44 of 55 Old 03-17-2007, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

Right now, because of HD quality, I put up with Comcast.
But as soon as Verizon FIOS gets here, assuming their quality and reliability stays the same, I will be switching.
I have read that their SD quality is better, HD is a bit better, and price is much better.

I have friends that live in Cherry Hill NJ that has Verizon FIOS and Love it over Comcast. They say it is a 100 times better Pitcher than Comcast ever gave them. I will have to say Comcast can not hold a candle to it. The Broadband is so much fast than Comcast. They just laugh at my Pitcher Quilt from Comcast when they are over.
As soon as FIOS comes to my area I will not have Comcast any more I am on a waiting list.
The price of FIOS over Comcast is much lower. I can get 1 HD box , 4 standard boxes and Broadband for less than what I pay just for cable with Comcast.
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post #45 of 55 Old 03-17-2007, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Also, I noticed that a lot of people on this forum assume that (the first) cablecard is always free, because it is in their area. This is not true, as we get charged the same rate for it as the box here. Same goes for the package rates. We're at the high end with those, too. Extended basic is something like $52.69 (before taxes) now here. That's utterly outrageous, for what basically amounts to a bunch of cheaply made, crappy reality shows and old sitcom reruns.

(And in case anyone's response to this is "Just drop them." - I did - a little over two years ago, when I finally had it with the constant price increases, crappy service, decline of programming quality and increasing "re-running" of content. Only problem is, my SD satellite channels have now reached the point of becoming almost unwatchable due to the excessive compression, and I'm out of options as far as providers.)

Gee, Ramm, must be nice. 40 miles southwest of you it's just under $70, with taxes. And the analog channel quality is not good, with video and audio levels all over the place, last I checked at a tire dealership, waiting in their empty waiting room, looking at the channels.

I know that for some, going digital stinks. But in less than two years, EVERYTHING must be digital over-the-air...and I fully expect Comcast and the other major cable ops to start shutting their analog down then, minus the basic local channels and maybe CSPAN and public access. It makes maintenance easier, the picture quality better, the variety better, and it's very, very difficult to steal it.

Comcast here has yanked HBO and all premiums for several years now. And they removed Sci-Fi and moved it to digital-only in 2005. Just wait until CNN, ESPN and such go onto the digital tier only. That will cause screaming and yelling. But believe me, its a winner all the way around, except for the cost. As for that, all I can say is call Dish, DirecTV, or any competition you might have in the area. And oh yeah, you'll need a box for every TV, period, unless you want to watch the same program on multiple TVs and are willing to do the wiring yourself. And within a few years, everyone will need a box of some sort, unless they have a TV tuner with an ASTC/digital over-the-air one built in.

Technology moves forward...and it isn't going to be cheap.

Gilbert
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post #46 of 55 Old 03-18-2007, 03:25 AM
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Maybe the govt. will eventually force the cable companies to at least offer their lowest digital tier in the clear, so people with a QAM tuner won't need a box - but ah - I know i'm dreamin'.

Having everything digital would be a winner for me, too - but ONLY if they actually were dedicated to producing the best possible signal and picture quality for each channel.
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post #47 of 55 Old 03-18-2007, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Murray View Post

I have friends that live in Cherry Hill NJ that has Verizon FIOS and Love it over Comcast.

Yeah... unfortunately 1 mile away in Collingswood, FIoS is not available. But I would subscribe in a second!

Ironically, our area is in an exclusive franchise agreement with Comcast for video. So, even if FIoS were available, it would be voice/internet only. Hooray for Comcast!
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post #48 of 55 Old 03-18-2007, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Ironically, our area is in an exclusive franchise agreement with Comcast for video. So, even if FIoS were available, it would be voice/internet only. Hooray for Comcast!

I thought part of the Governmen't deal with the telecommunication companies was that those "Exclusive" deals were rendered void when they wanted to bring FIOS to new areas. I know it can be different from State to State but I thought there was a mechanism in place for areas "trapped" by old agreements to get relief and allow the Telecom carriers to compete.

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post #49 of 55 Old 03-18-2007, 09:52 AM
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Is Fios' TV really any cheaper? I know their internet sure isn't.

I thought I remember reading in a post here that after all is said and done, Fios' TV often ends up being more.
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post #50 of 55 Old 03-18-2007, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by zaphod7501 View Post

I thought part of the Governmen't deal with the telecommunication companies was that those "Exclusive" deals were rendered void when they wanted to bring FIOS to new areas. I know it can be different from State to State but I thought there was a mechanism in place for areas "trapped" by old agreements to get relief and allow the Telecom carriers to compete.

Who knows? All I know is Verizon has been in discussion for months with the local politicians and no agreements in sight. If they had FCC/Government backing, I'm sure installations would be occurring.

Last I heard/understood... they can install voice/internet... but no video in my area at this time. Negotiations will continue I'm sure...

This is just another Comcast thorn in my side. I find it sickly amusing that they feel so threatened. If their service is so good, why would anyone want to switch?
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post #51 of 55 Old 03-18-2007, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Maybe the govt. will eventually force the cable companies to at least offer their lowest digital tier in the clear, so people with a QAM tuner won't need a box - but ah - I know i'm dreamin'.

Right now, in areas with the All Digital Simulcast in place, even the 'Expanded' Digital Simulcast is being encrypted for everyone; I don't see it changing, as it is it more secure to control it remotely.
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post #52 of 55 Old 03-18-2007, 03:46 PM
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No, I know that.

They used to actually be unencrypted in many areas when QAM tuners first became available to the public, but they put the kabosh on that real quick.
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post #53 of 55 Old 03-19-2007, 01:01 PM
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So... the bottom line is that the FCC will be shutting down the analog OTA users. So be it...

Now... those that have an analog cable tuner (built into TV's since the 80's) have to now suffer due to corporate greed? Sorry, but I don't easily accept this strategy. The FCC is not mandating how cable providers "provide" the signal, so there's no big "rush".

IMO... the cableco's would be able to drum up more business by keeping the analog "stuff" as a marketing strategy to entice new (legacy analog) subscribers after 2/19/09. They could probably provide "free" installations and still profit for a few years.
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post #54 of 55 Old 03-23-2007, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Is Fios' TV really any cheaper? I know their internet sure isn't.

I thought I remember reading in a post here that after all is said and done, Fios' TV often ends up being more.


I just did a back of the envelope pricing for my parent who are moving to a new COMCAST/FIOS competitve area & when all is said & done, they both are relatively the same.

Purportedly, the quality & speed of FIOS is marginally better to the average Joe (not the experts @ AVS ) but I haven't had a chance to test that out.

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post #55 of 55 Old 10-27-2007, 12:24 PM
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I think this just happened in Orlando, too. Now when you go to the Comcast website, channel 5 HBO is missing all of a sudden -- same for program guide in our TiVo, too. The listing in the TiVo program guide shows "????" instead of "HBO" for channel 5 and there's no more show listings for HBO shows anymore. It's now impossible to schedule recordings on HBO with TiVo. Oddly enough, we still get the signal -- maybe because our HOA has a five year contract?
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