Buying a cable box and being able to use it with cablevision? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 19 Old 04-17-2007, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
m3jsh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hello, simple question. I'm interested in purchasing a couple SA4200s from eBay, will I be able to use these without problem while avoiding a rental fee?

I understand these boxes come with a "access card" that you plug into the unit, does this have to be programmed by my provider in order to be granted access?

Also, is this legal? In essence what I want to do is pay for cable service without the added $4.95 a month for each cable box I need.
m3jsh is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 Old 04-17-2007, 03:56 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 14,307
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked: 260
Not to be rude... but there are many, many threads where individuals bought cable boxes fron Ebay and were unable to have their provider activate the box. A few searches should turn up the "stories".

It's perfectly legal to sell and buy them... getting the cable provider to activate them is another story.
Ratman is offline  
post #3 of 19 Old 04-17-2007, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
m3jsh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My apologies. Thank you for the information though.
m3jsh is offline  
post #4 of 19 Old 04-17-2007, 04:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
whoaru99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,960
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

It's perfectly legal to sell and buy them... getting the cable provider to activate them is another story.

The latter part being virtually impossible to swing, afaik.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
whoaru99 is offline  
post #5 of 19 Old 04-17-2007, 04:40 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Tulpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,023
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 58
Yeah, why would a cable company activate a box not in their inventory and not get any fees for it when they can charge you $5.00 or so to use theirs?

People have reported Comcast activating a Motorola receiver/STB/DVD player combo unit (I forget the model), but they said it was a pain in the ass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m3jsh View Post

Also, is this legal? In essence what I want to do is pay for cable service without the added $4.95 a month for each cable box I need.

It would be illegal if you purchased a box that was stolen; that is, someone who had cable service and then quit, never returning the box. In Canada, boxes are available for sale, so some of them could make their way down. You could own one of them legally, or maybe some other box that was at one time purchased legally, but as stated before, no American cable provider is going to activate it.

Don't believe everything on the Interwebz! A duck's quack DOES echo!
Tulpa is offline  
post #6 of 19 Old 04-18-2007, 04:06 AM
 
bicker1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burlington, MA
Posts: 8,289
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Indeed, the only thing they're obligated to do is provide you a CableCard. If your box works with a CableCard, then great, otherwise they're not legally obligated to activate or any other way make your own personal box work within their network.
bicker1 is offline  
post #7 of 19 Old 04-18-2007, 04:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RCbridge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Limerick Pa
Posts: 1,896
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 14
On the books, after July 1st this year, you should be seeing cable boxes in retail stores with open access (it should work on any cable system) but I repeat this is on the books.

This will allow you to purchase STB's and the cable-co's have to activate them, they will supply a cable card to control the content.
We shall see if this occurs on that date!!
RCbridge is offline  
post #8 of 19 Old 04-18-2007, 07:20 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Tulpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,023
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 58
That would be nice, but you're still on the hook to rent a cablecard, right?

Don't believe everything on the Interwebz! A duck's quack DOES echo!
Tulpa is offline  
post #9 of 19 Old 04-18-2007, 07:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
replayrob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NY- The tax State
Posts: 3,967
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

That would be nice, but you're still on the hook to rent a cablecard, right?

Correct..... and they range from $1.99/month up to $9.99/month rental it seems!
It has been suggested by the cable industry itself- that the cable co's set the cable card rental fee's at $1.99/month, but you're pretty much at the mercy of your cable provider when it comes to rental fees

"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure...."

replayrob is offline  
post #10 of 19 Old 04-18-2007, 07:36 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Tulpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,023
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 58
So really nothing much will change (in favor of the consumer, at least), except you may get more of a choice as to which STB to buy.

I think I saw TW charges $1.75 monthly for Cablecards, or some such, but then they tack on an additional $2.50 per month for "second TV service," for both Cablecards and STBs.

Don't believe everything on the Interwebz! A duck's quack DOES echo!
Tulpa is offline  
post #11 of 19 Old 04-18-2007, 11:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
replayrob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NY- The tax State
Posts: 3,967
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

So really nothing much will change (in favor of the consumer, at least)...

Ding ding ding ding.... give that man a prize Johnny!!!
The big cable co's got us right where they want us. If the Sat providers ever got their $hit together, maybe there'd be some competition for a change- but they're mismanaged worse than the government!

"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure...."

replayrob is offline  
post #12 of 19 Old 04-18-2007, 06:41 PM
 
bicker1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burlington, MA
Posts: 8,289
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
It's not even that: Stuff will be priced just about how much it is worth, no matter what. People aren't going to pay more than stuff is worth; companies aren't going to price things for less than they're worth. You can play whatever shell game you want, shuffling numbers from one column to another, but in the end, it's not going to make a big difference.
bicker1 is offline  
post #13 of 19 Old 04-20-2007, 07:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
replayrob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NY- The tax State
Posts: 3,967
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker1 View Post

You can play whatever shell game you want, shuffling numbers from one column to another, but in the end, it's not going to make a big difference.

Agreed!
Big cable is gonna get their coin no matter what we, or Congress do

"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure...."

replayrob is offline  
post #14 of 19 Old 04-25-2007, 11:25 AM
Member
 
cnut4l's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: West MI
Posts: 64
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Typically the boxes are the property of the cable system they operate on. Often these boxes are not legally the property of the people selling them. Boxes to date have had embedded encryption, and only work on one system, but all of that could change as of July (see previous posts).

If I were you, I'd stay away from those ebay boxes.

I'd rather have you call me out if I give bad info to someone, than to go on thinking that what I know is right!TVGOSÂs support page with email address. Please email with guide problems!
cnut4l is offline  
post #15 of 19 Old 04-26-2007, 03:26 AM
 
bicker1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burlington, MA
Posts: 8,289
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Well, to be clear, though, the existing boxes won't change in that regard: New boxes are coming off the assembly line now that have separable encryption.
bicker1 is offline  
post #16 of 19 Old 04-26-2007, 04:26 AM
Member
 
rtbond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker1 View Post

Well, to be clear, though, the existing boxes won't change in that regard: New boxes are coming off the assembly line now that have separable encryption.

I believe that if you purchase a CableCard-capable STB and use it in conjunction with your cable provider's CableCard you are limited to 1-way services only - no interactive program guide and no video-on-demand. It is my understanding that CableCard technology is still limited to 1-way services (i.e., traditional broadcast services (premium and non-premium channels) and telephone PPV).

2-way CableCard operations is not likely until late 2008.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6436417.html
rtbond is offline  
post #17 of 19 Old 04-26-2007, 08:34 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bfdtv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 13,484
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtbond View Post

It is my understanding that CableCard technology is still limited to 1-way services (i.e., traditional broadcast services (premium and non-premium channels) and telephone PPV).

2-way CableCard operations is not likely until late 2008

CableCard 1.0 already has bi-directional support. CableCard 2.0 simplys adds multi-tuner support, eliminating the need for multiple CableCards to support multiple tuners.

Current CableCard implementations in TVs and third-party boxes (like the Tivo Series3) use unidirectional OpenCable receivers. These "one-way" receivers cannot access guide information [from cable company], interactive services, VOD, or channels delivered using Switched Digital Video (SDV) technology. This is a limitation of the receiver, not the CableCard. That will all change next year.

Beginning in 2008, you will see televisions start to implement bidirectional digital tuners with OCAP in their TVs. With these TVs, you will simply plug the access card (CableCard) into the back of your display, and it will provide you full access to every channel and service you get with a set-top box. You will get the program guide with the same interface you get on the set-top box. By 2010, they probably won't even sell >$1000 TVs without this functionality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtbond View Post

I believe that if you purchase a CableCard-capable STB and use it in conjunction with your cable provider's CableCard you are limited to 1-way services only - no interactive program guide and no video-on-demand.

FCC mandate (also known as the "integration ban") prohibits most cable systems from deploying new STBs and DVRs with integrated encryption systems (CAS) after July 1. Existing customers can continue using the old equipment, but beginning in July, new installations must use STBs and DVRs with CableCard. These boxes aren't the traditional unidirectional CableCard products we've seen in the past; these CableCard products feature full bidirectional receivers with OCAP. They support every feature -- the guide, VOD, PPV, SDV -- of current boxes, but they use a CableCard to decrypt channels.

Quote:
Motorola's new CableCard+OCAP product lineup

Motorola DCH100 - An all-digital, standard-definition (SD) interactive cable set-top with an integrated MoCA home networking interface.

Motorola DCH200 - A standard-definition interactive digital cable set-top with support for analog services.

Motorola DCH3200 - An all-digital, high-definition interactive cable set-top.

Motorola DCH6200 - A high-definition interactive digital cable set-top with support for analog services.

Motorola DCH3416 - An all-digital, high-definition digital video recorder and interactive cable set-top with a standard 160 GB hard drive for storage of content.

Motorola DCH6416 - A high-definition digital video recorder and interactive digital cable set-top with support for analog services and a standard 160 GB hard drive for storage of content.

Back in January, Comcast announced an order for thousands of new DCH3200 and DCH3416 boxes. All new customer installations after July 1 will use these new CableCard boxes, as required by law.

Motorola won't support DCAS until 2008.
bfdtv is offline  
post #18 of 19 Old 04-26-2007, 09:49 AM
Member
 
rtbond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for the clarifications on digital cable ready (DCR) TVs (i.e., with CableCard capability) and STBs with CableCards.

You state: "These boxes aren't the traditional unidirectional CableCard products we've seen in the past; these CableCard products feature full bidirectional receivers with OCAP. They support every feature -- the guide, VOD, PPV, SDV -- of current boxes, but they use a CableCard to decrypt channels."

The original point of this thread was purchasing a STB. Any idea whether retail STBs available on 2007 are likely to have the same bidriectional support that the CableCard capable STBs that the MSOs (will) make available to their customers at a monthly fee? That is, for whatever reason the consumer electronics folks chose to implement unidirectional receivers in their DCR products. Will these same companies also be producing consumer STBs, and if so will they once again choose to implement 1-way only receivers?
rtbond is offline  
post #19 of 19 Old 04-27-2007, 04:55 PM
QZ1
AVS Special Member
 
QZ1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: S.E. PA
Posts: 5,047
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Back in January, Comcast announced an order for thousands of new DCH3200 and DCH3416 boxes. All new customer installations after July 1 will use these new CableCard boxes, as required by law.

How about orders for DCH100?

Also, I read that once a box is in service before 1 July, and subsequently returned, it can be re-deployed; so, it is just new box installations that must be CableCard boxes.
QZ1 is offline  
Reply Cable, Digital Cable - Non-HDTV

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off