HDMI 1.3 over CAT5 Baluns? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 04-15-2008, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,
Connecting a Panasonic BluRay BD30 and Playstation 3 to a Yamaha RX-V3800 amplifier, all by HDMI cables. Then need to get to a JVC DLA-HD100 to which I can only run 2 x CAT5 cables, though only 10-15m away. I tried the Gefen HDMI-Extreme before finding out it only supports 1.2, no picture. Gefen are currently working on a 1.3 spec unit but no idea when ready. Only alternative is the fibre-optic HMDI-1000HD. Then tried a CMI HET001, which seemed very cheap, and specified at 1.3 but result was very poor picture.

Does anyone know if the Extron HDMI201 will work? Does it support 1.3? Is there any product out there that will work? Have to use the CAT5's now unfortunately.

Thanks
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post #2 of 23 Old 04-15-2008, 06:27 PM
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you can try this. i have not used personally though.

http://cgi.*********/HDMI-AV-Extreme...sid=p1638.m118
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post #3 of 23 Old 05-06-2008, 05:17 PM
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Just heard about this. This site http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/A...r-p-17468.html shows a HDMI to CAT-5 converter that claims to be the only unit to send 1080p over a single CAT-5 at this time, 130 feet for 1080p and 200 feet for 1080i. Sounds like a significant advancement, if it works as advertised.

Carl
Curmudgeon Elektroniker
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post #4 of 23 Old 06-09-2008, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crutschow View Post

Just heard about this. This site http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/A...r-p-17468.html shows a HDMI to CAT-5 converter that claims to be the only unit to send 1080p over a single CAT-5 at this time, 130 feet for 1080p and 200 feet for 1080i. Sounds like a significant advancement, if it works as advertised.

I've been looking in to this as well. Checking out the above product I can't help but notice the complete and utter lack of any mention of audio support. In fact the description specifically mentions video only. While I'm no expert in how baluns work the fact that all other manufacturers are using two cat5e cables leads me to believe that either these clowns have figured out a revolutionary new way to get more bandwidth out of one cable that no one else has figured out - at a lower price, to boot - or that they are completely leaving audio out of it. I suspect the latter
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post #5 of 23 Old 06-10-2008, 08:28 AM
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I havent used them but the manual talks about HDMI mode with 8 channel audio
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post #6 of 23 Old 06-10-2008, 09:12 AM
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My understanding is that the second cat5/6 cable used in the other extender units on the market is specifically there to help ensure that there are no HDCP handshake problems.

I hope you all noted that the unit at http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/A...r-p-17468.html (like many of the other extender units (including Gefen)) recommend using shielded cat5/6 for best picture quailty. I posted a question on this forum regarding the shielded cable requirement but got no response. I would like to know from one of the great many technically proficient readers on this forum why the shielded cable is needed and how much degradation in the video signal will occur if a shielded cable is not used.
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post #7 of 23 Old 06-10-2008, 07:40 PM
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Find local dealer who sells Liberty Wire & Cable or Hall Research. they both have baluns who will correctly send HDMI 1.3 over cat5. Liberty has a balun wich will send HDMI over Coax RG6 or 59
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post #8 of 23 Old 07-17-2008, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smallhometheater View Post

Find local dealer who sells Liberty Wire & Cable or Hall Research. they both have baluns who will correctly send HDMI 1.3 over cat5. Liberty has a balun wich will send HDMI over Coax RG6 or 59

anyone have a link to these products? i looked through the liberty website searching for balun's but couldn't tell what is what.

i want to try something to send dbi over a single cat5 or a single coax. less than 100 feet.
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post #9 of 23 Old 07-18-2008, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazypants View Post

I hope you all noted that the unit at http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/A...r-p-17468.html (like many of the other extender units (including Gefen)) recommend using shielded cat5/6 for best picture quailty. I posted a question on this forum regarding the shielded cable requirement but got no response. I would like to know from one of the great many technically proficient readers on this forum why the shielded cable is needed and how much degradation in the video signal will occur if a shielded cable is not used.

I can't say for certain but I can probably guess....

If you take the traditional component balun as an example, it is converting an unbalanced signal to a balanced signal. When using straight component that is why coax with heavy shielding is preferred because it reduces the possiblity of RF noise being induced onto the signal. Unbalanced signals are referenced to ground, so any noise will distort the video. Balanced on the otherhand benefits from noise cancellation and the inherent properties of a Cat5 cable. When noise makes its way onto a Cat5 cable running a balanced signal, the noise is cancelled out because it is equally induced onto each wire of a twisted pair.

So for example, if you have a steady 5VDC signal on an unbalanced cable, that 5VDC is referenced to ground (0VDC). So the receiving unit is expecting a 5VDC amplitude. However, along the way, 100mv of noise is induced. Since ground is always 0VDC, the receiving unit now receives 5.1VDC and the signal is no longer the same as what the sending unit sent.

On the contrary, take a balanced cable. The same 5VDC signal is sent. 0VDC gets sent on one wire of the pair and 5VDC gets sent on the other. Along the way, 100mv of noise is induced. One wire has 0.1VDC and the 2nd wire has 5.1VDC. But the difference between the two is 5VDC so the signal is intact.

With component baluns, this works very well because the translation is 1:1 in wire conductors. The balun takes two wires (ground + Signal) from the unbalanced side and converts it to two wires (Signal Differential) on the balanced side. Since component takes 6 conductors, it is easy to use 6 of the 8 conductors on a cat5 cable. No trickery here. Its why you mostly see component + 2ch audio baluns requiring two cat5s. There simply aren't enough conductors.

With HDMI baluns, and this is where it gets muddy and I'm only guestimating, it's a different story. HDMI requires 19 wires. So that lowly balun which uses only 8 wires of a cat5 cable has to somehow get the signals from 19 wires in/out. How they are doing this, I'm not sure. If they are converting everything to digital packets, encoding on one end and decoding on the other, then it shouldn't require STP (shielded), but there may be a bandwidth issue at this point. So maybe they are cheating and some of the signals they are still sending as unbalanced which are of course susceptible to noise. So, they recommend shielded Cat5.


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post #10 of 23 Old 07-19-2008, 09:19 AM
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Any update on if this works properly and a few links on where to buy?
As I read this and search the internet I have these concerns..
1) Where is the link to actually buy online the Liberty Cable product looking for both DMI 1.3 to single Cat5 AND hdmi 1.3 to Single Coax
2) Same for the Hall research product any link on someplace where you could actually price and buy something?
3) Does the lenexpro Altona product actually work and with audio.
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post #11 of 23 Old 07-19-2008, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrossi2 View Post

Any update on if this works properly and a few links on where to buy?
As I read this and search the internet I have these concerns..
1) Where is the link to actually buy online the Liberty Cable product looking for both DMI 1.3 to single Cat5 AND hdmi 1.3 to Single Coax
2) Same for the Hall research product any link on someplace where you could actually price and buy something?
3) Does the lenexpro Altona product actually work and with audio.


My keyboard is sticking. That's "HDMI 1.3" over single Cat5 AND Coax
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post #12 of 23 Old 07-24-2008, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crutschow View Post

Just heard about this. This site http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/A...r-p-17468.html shows a HDMI to CAT-5 converter that claims to be the only unit to send 1080p over a single CAT-5 at this time, 130 feet for 1080p and 200 feet for 1080i. Sounds like a significant advancement, if it works as advertised.

i wonder how that works,
since the technology of HDMI over CAT5, is to use one cable for data and another for hand-shaking, and it has to be happened at the same time, how are they going to do it with just one cable???
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post #13 of 23 Old 07-24-2008, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ilovecoffee View Post

i wonder how that works,
since the technology of HDMI over CAT5, is to use one cable for data and another for hand-shaking, and it has to be happened at the same time, how are they going to do it with just one cable???

maybe they just wave
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post #14 of 23 Old 07-28-2008, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazypants View Post

My understanding is that the second cat5/6 cable used in the other extender units on the market is specifically there to help ensure that there are no HDCP handshake problems.

I hope you all noted that the unit at http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/A...r-p-17468.html (like many of the other extender units (including Gefen)) recommend using shielded cat5/6 for best picture quailty. I posted a question on this forum regarding the shielded cable requirement but got no response. I would like to know from one of the great many technically proficient readers on this forum why the shielded cable is needed and how much degradation in the video signal will occur if a shielded cable is not used.

I had 65 feet of unshielded cat 5 to gefen extreme baluns.
The issue was momentary video blackouts or video blackouts that required the TV to be power cycled. As you can imagine, it totally ruins a movie. The movie keeps playing and the audio keeps going, while you frantically search for the TV remote. So I went ahead and put shielded cat 5 in the wall, issue solved.

I was then unhappy with lip-sync issues, so swapped
out the $500 gefens for these $99 baluns. They work
great and now I have no lip-sync issues and no movie
blink-out.

http://www.uniqueproductsonline.com/hdovcat5ecae.html
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post #15 of 23 Old 09-07-2008, 08:09 AM
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I was wondering, what did you wind up with? I need an answer for the same issue and can't seem to find anything well recommended.
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post #16 of 23 Old 09-24-2008, 12:20 AM
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Just did a setup and tried to use Xantech HDMIC5IR HDMI over cat5, with integrated IR baluns.

Total nightmare, had to replace all 16! units, with another brand SES Model 9E-HDMI170BX.

The SES units worked flawlessy from BluRay source 1080p/24 and SA8300HDC at 1080i(max the device will output)

I could not get the Xantechs to consistently produce a 1080p image. Able to display 1080i from other sources, but it was a mixed bag. For Example, Sony Bluray S350 1080i possible, Panasonic BD30 only 480p, Scientific Atlanta 8300HDC only 480p, this is what surpirsed me the most, Sony PS3 1080p/24.

Display was Sony KDL52W100 and KDL40W100
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post #17 of 23 Old 11-13-2008, 06:43 AM
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Any new suggestions on this topic? I want to connect two very up-to-date systems together using HDMI to cat5 (1.3 compliant) and have not had any luck finding anything that is said to be reliable.

Steve
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post #18 of 23 Old 11-13-2008, 04:33 PM
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^ X2

I continue to read mixed results using CAT5 extenders. Variations in LAN cable quality, length, signal source, display, and the extender components themselves seem to make it more of crap shoot. I need to run about 75ft of HDMI and was wondering if the active equalizer HDMI extenders are as affective and reliable?

Has anyone tried this type of solution?

PREMIUM Metallic HDMI Active Equalizer Extender Repeater - Extend Up to 100FT

Extends effective length of HDMI Cables up to 100ft.
Uses the Power on the HDMI Bus to Enhance and Repeat the Signal.
Maximum Data Length Based on Gauge of Wire.
0 to 50 Meters Over HDMI-Cable, 24 AWG STP
0 to 36 Meters Over HDMI-Cable, 28 AWG STP
0 to 30 Meters Over HDMI-Cable, 30 AWG STP
Compatible with DTV Resolutions 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p
Best Low Cost Solution to the Extra Long Cable Length Problem.
Female-Female Adapter Incorporating the Integrated Circuit 3815


http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

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post #19 of 23 Old 11-16-2008, 11:15 AM
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I added that extender to my 75' HDMI cable (coming from a monoprice powered 4x2 switch) and it made the HDMI link-up much more reliable. Previously, when I switched the TV from HDMI to OTA and then back, it was a crapshoot whether it would handshake. Now it works every time. I have it connected near the TV with an 18" HDMI 1.3 cable in between.

Mono price tech told me it should not make a difference, but it did.
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post #20 of 23 Old 11-16-2008, 11:29 AM
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I will give a thumbs up to Ethereal's HDMI via Cat5. The guys put them in on Friday and I gave it a test run with a Denon BD player, and Direct TV Dvr.
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post #21 of 23 Old 11-17-2008, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrym303 View Post

I added that extender to my 75' HDMI cable (coming from a monoprice powered 4x2 switch) and it made the HDMI link-up much more reliable. Previously, when I switched the TV from HDMI to OTA and then back, it was a crapshoot whether it would handshake. Now it works every time. I have it connected near the TV with an 18" HDMI 1.3 cable in between.

Mono price tech told me it should not make a difference, but it did.

Well, depending upon the cable quality and wire gauge, 75' of HDMI can be problematic. Thus it's not surprising that an equalizer-extender, such as the Monoprice, would help.

For more insight into this look at the data sheet for the Maxim MAX3815 http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/4444, which is the device apparently used in the Monoprice extender. It shows how the device improves the signal quality for long cable runs.

Carl
Curmudgeon Elektroniker
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post #22 of 23 Old 11-18-2008, 05:55 PM
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Are your $99 baluns still working well?
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post #23 of 23 Old 11-19-2008, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jreedar View Post

Are your $99 baluns still working well?

I'm curious about that too. And, are you using 1.3 HDMI equipment? Are you sending hi-rez audio over it?

Steve
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