Any difference between RJ45 connectors - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 10 Old 10-27-2008, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Marbles_00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I'm not talking about cabling but the actual RJ45 connector itself. I have a few RJ45 connectors that only state "CAT5". I 'm in the process of adding some CAT5e unterminated cable and would like to use these connectors up. I have a feeling I already know the answer, but just want to hear from some of the experts in if these "CAT5" connectors can be used for acheiving CAT5e GigLAN speeds?

Besides shielded and unshielded RJ-45 connectors, which is pretty self-explanitory, what are the diffenence between the RJ45 connector that is "specified" (and I use that loosely) for CAT5, CAT5e, CAT6 and beyond?

Thanks in advance to any explanation.

My web-o-information:
http://sites.google.com/site/maycreates/
Where I discuss the following projects
-DIY multi-zoning music distribution
-HTPC
-MediaPVR
-UnRAID Server
-and other projects
Marbles_00 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 Old 10-27-2008, 03:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
robertmee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,002
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
There are also differences as to whether you are using stranded or solid cable.

As for the connectors, there is a difference: Lifted from another site:

"Although that particular cable seemed to work OK, something told me
that it just couldn't be that difficult to attach a cable end. After
doing a little research, I discovered that CAT5E and CAT6 cables require
a different type of RJ-45 connector than CAT5 does. The wiring sequence
is still the same as it was with CAT 5 (orange / white, orange, green /
white, blue, blue / white, green, brown / white, brown). The difference
is that while a connector for a CAT5 cable holds the individual wires in
a straight line, an RJ-45 connector for a CAT6 cable staggers the wires
to accommodate their thicker sizes. In practice though, attaching a
connector to a CAT6 cable is almost identical to attaching a connector
to a CAT5 cable. If you can put a connector onto a CAT5 cable
successfully, then you won't have any trouble with CAT6. You can even
continue to use your old crimpier and cable tester."
robertmee is offline  
post #3 of 10 Old 10-27-2008, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Marbles_00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
The difference
is that while a connector for a CAT5 cable holds the individual wires in
a straight line, an RJ-45 connector for a CAT6 cable staggers the wires
to accommodate their thicker sizes.

Though that may be true for some manufacturer types of cable, depending on the guage of wire they are using, in the end, they all have to fit into the same footprint. I'm looking at a patch cable that is labeled CAT5e in front of me, and the individual wires are not staggered, but are all in line.

I'm looking more into understanding if there is a difference electrically. Is there more potential for crosstalk or something? I mean I have this patch cord with a molded cover, but the contacts are embedded in a clear piece of plastic, just like the individual connectors I have labeled CAT5. All contacts on both connectors are gold-plated, both are unshielded. So is the connector labeled CAT5e really better? Or is this just some industry hog-wash that allows companies to further soak the average consumer of their hard-earn cash on something that alot of people don't truly understand?

Is there any tests performed on finding out if one type of connector used performs better than an different connector...all other things being equal of course. Like if someone took a piece of CAT6 cable and terminated it with RJ45 connectors rated for CAT6, another piece of equal length of CAT6 cable and terminated it with connectors rated for CAT5 and attempted to send the same data through each and calculated the throughput? Would the connector be the bottleneck?

My web-o-information:
http://sites.google.com/site/maycreates/
Where I discuss the following projects
-DIY multi-zoning music distribution
-HTPC
-MediaPVR
-UnRAID Server
-and other projects
Marbles_00 is offline  
post #4 of 10 Old 10-28-2008, 11:31 AM
Senior Member
 
fedders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
If you are terminating your own RJ45 connectors for data, you are likely not making a Cat 5e link. If you need patch cables, buy pre-made stranded that have been tested.

If you need permanently installed cable, punch down to jacks using the 110 connectors on the back. Then, use patch cables from the jack.

Industry reports that I have read indicate that it is next to impossible to field-make patch cables and have them meet the TIA/EIA standards. (There is a difference between someone saying they "work" and having them meet the standard which was written for worst-case situations)

Therefore, to answer your question - most RJ45 connectors are the same in that they won't meet the standard electrically speaking.

If you are using these connectors for applications other than data, you are probably fine.

Carl

Carl Fedders
fedders is offline  
post #5 of 10 Old 10-28-2008, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Marbles_00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:


If you are terminating your own RJ45 connectors for data, you are likely not making a Cat 5e link

How so? I don't quite understand that statement.

Quote:


There is a difference between someone saying they "work" and having them meet the standard which was written for worst-case situations

If anything worse than the worst-case situation means a loss of data, or worse, a loss of connection, that fact that a DIY cable is able to make a connection and not loose data packets...hence "work"...wouldn't that mean it has met that standard somewhat?

What is the standard on the RJ45 connector?
Quote:


most RJ45 connectors are the same in that they won't meet the standard electrically speaking

You indicate that the connector won't meet the TIA/EIA standard...then how are manufacturers allowed to put the "CAT" labels on connectors or packaging if they do not meet the standard? Such as this manufacturer...in their brochure it clearly states their connector meets the TIA/EIA standard: http://www.idealindustries.com/media...g_brochure.pdf . Just because it is labeled CAT5, or CAT6, electrically, what is the difference? I can understand that physically, since CAT6 wire guage is larger, you will have to stagger the crimps as was posted above, but breaking down each connector to the raw materials, is there that much of a difference? For the sake of it, since the cable is actually different, let's take CAT6 out of the equation, and just look at CAT5 and CAT5e, what is the difference in the RJ45 connector between those two standards. I was on one site where the CAT5e RJ45 connector was almost double in cost to the CAT5 connector. I'm just trying to comprehend how these connectors are so different to constitute such a cost difference. Oh and as a side note, that is the company who I have some left over CAT5 connectors in question, and wondering if they can be used in a CAT5e install.


I apologize if I appear irritating for something that most likely is so trivial, I'm just trying to understand.

My web-o-information:
http://sites.google.com/site/maycreates/
Where I discuss the following projects
-DIY multi-zoning music distribution
-HTPC
-MediaPVR
-UnRAID Server
-and other projects
Marbles_00 is offline  
post #6 of 10 Old 10-29-2008, 03:36 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Marbles_00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I guess to sum it up, from what I have searched over the internet, to some of the responses here is that electrically there isn't a difference between CAT5, CAT5e, CAT6 RJ45 connectors, and one should be able to take a CAT5 connector, install it on a CAT6 cable and get the throughput of CAT6 (Gig speeds plus), though YES there is a physical limitation in that CAT6 wire guaging is larger and would not fit side-by-side in the CAT5 connector.

Whether it meets a standard or not is moot. If CAT5 connectors are used in a CAT5e install to achieve Gig speeds, it can be done. Being certified to meet a standard just means the cable has been tested to this standard. A DIY cable may not be tested to this said standard, but under no circumstances, if it has been properly constructed, should it not be able to perform just as well in the real world as a factory made CAT5e cable, using "CAT5e" parts.

It still doesn't explain why the industry makes individuals pay more for a connector when there is no difference between them (CAT5 to CAT5e I'm talking about).

My web-o-information:
http://sites.google.com/site/maycreates/
Where I discuss the following projects
-DIY multi-zoning music distribution
-HTPC
-MediaPVR
-UnRAID Server
-and other projects
Marbles_00 is offline  
post #7 of 10 Old 10-29-2008, 05:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
robertmee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,002
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marbles_00 View Post


It still doesn't explain why the industry makes individuals pay more for a connector when there is no difference between them (CAT5 to CAT5e I'm talking about).

That's easy....Supply and Demand, economics 101
robertmee is offline  
post #8 of 10 Old 10-29-2008, 06:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
egnlsn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Taylorsville, UT
Posts: 2,221
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 31
From another site:
Are the connectors for category 5e and category 6 different? Why are they more expensive?

Although category 6 and category 5e connectors may look alike, category 6 connectors have much better transmission performance. For example, at 100 MHz, NEXT of a category 5e connector is 43 decibels (dB), while NEXT of a category 6 connector is 54 dB. This means that a cat6 connector couples about 1/12 of the power that a cat5e connector couples from one pair to another pair. Conversely, one can say that a category 6 connector is 12 times less noisy compared to a category 5e connector. This vast improvement in performance was achieved with new technology, new processes, better materials and significant R&D resources, leading to higher costs for manufacturers.

What will happen if I mix and match different manufacturers' hardware together?

If the components are category 6 compliant, then you will be assured of category 6 performance.

CIAO!

Ed N.
egnlsn is offline  
post #9 of 10 Old 10-29-2008, 08:01 AM
Senior Member
 
fedders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marbles_00 View Post

How so? I don't quite understand that statement.

No offense to you, but it is difficult, to hand-make Cat 5e or Cat 6 patch cables that meet the standards. It is so hard to keep the twists going into the connector so that you don't get cross-talk etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marbles_00 View Post

If anything worse than the worst-case situation means a loss of data, or worse, a loss of connection, that fact that a DIY cable is able to make a connection and not loose data packets...hence "work"...wouldn't that mean it has met that standard somewhat?

Worst case means the full 90 meters of permanent link with a cross-connect in the middle and 5 meters of patch cord on either end. Shortening the length will help out performance in "real world" applications.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marbles_00 View Post

What is the standard on the RJ45 connector? You indicate that the connector won't meet the TIA/EIA standard...then how are manufacturers allowed to put the "CAT" labels on connectors or packaging if they do not meet the standard?

I can print Cat 5 or Cat 6 on anything. I see tons of import manufacturers every day that do this without their product really meeting any standard. Most consumers will never know the difference and professionals would never use this product because it is not TIA/EIA verified to meet the standard by UL, ETL or some other independent testing lab.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marbles_00 View Post

Such as this manufacturer...in their brochure it clearly states their connector meets the TIA/EIA standard: http://www.idealindustries.com/media...g_brochure.pdf.

From the PDF you reference: "IDEAL CAT 6, RJ45 modular plugs support CAT 6 installations, meeting the TIA/EIA-568-B.2 requirements for NEXT (Near End
Cross Talk) and Return Loss." Unfortunately, these are only 2 of the many electrical tests that a Cat 6 or 5e system needs to meet.

Connectors like this are so difficult to field-terminate properly (to meet electrical standards). Plus, for DATA applications, these connectors should never be applied to solid copper cable. It should only be used on stranded wire because the application is a patch cable. For the long runs (as I already mentioned), you need to punch down to jacks - then use patch cords from the jack to the hardware you are connecting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marbles_00 View Post

Just because it is labeled CAT5, or CAT6, electrically, what is the difference?

Cat 5 (now retired), Cat 5e, and Cat 6 all have different sets of tests that they must meet. The differences between Cat 5 and 5e were minor - but more difficult to pass as the tests now account for all 4 pairs of wire being used at the same time. Cat 6 not only tightens up the requirements of the tests, but also extends the frequency requirements out to 200 MHz. Yes, they all use the RJ45 connector for patch cables, but we are really talking about 3 different standards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marbles_00 View Post

Oh and as a side note, that is the company who I have some left over CAT5 connectors in question, and wondering if they can be used in a CAT5e install.

No. If any piece in the entire link is of a lower rating, the entire channel gets de-rated. If you use Cat 6 wire with Cat 5 jacks, you only have a Cat 5 channel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marbles_00 View Post

I apologize if I appear irritating for something that most likely is so trivial, I'm just trying to understand.

Without a doubt, all the standards and requirements of Cat 5, 5e, and 6 are difficult to understand and implement. If you don't care about any of these standards, then just do what you are going to do and move on. I'm just trying to educate you (and others) on your question.

Pick a standard that you want to meet - 5e or 6. Buy only components that are ETL or UL TIA/EIA verified to meet that standard you picked. Run solid cable to a jack permanently installed at both ends. Follow all guidelines for installing this cable to ensure you do not damage it in installation. Use a pre-made patch cable (stranded) that is also ETL or UL TIA/EIA verified between the jack and your equipment on both ends.

If you do all this, your system will work well without lost data and you will be happy.

Yes, I know I'm not really addressing your question about whether there is a difference between RJ45 jacks that you can buy. (Yes, there usually is a difference) I'm doing this because you should not be using them.

Carl

Carl Fedders
fedders is offline  
post #10 of 10 Old 10-29-2008, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Marbles_00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Thanks guys for all your responses. I will admit that I got carried away...I know there was a difference between CAT5 series and CAT6 and should never had tried to bunch these two entities together (though I did learn about the different guaging...never knew that before).

I really appreiciated all the responses as it helped alot. I'm sure there are others that may have asked themselves the same thing but were reluctant in asking.

Thanks again.

Carl, went to your company's website...just wondering if your company deals at all with military or areospace rated wiring, something that can be used in a TVAC chamber?

My web-o-information:
http://sites.google.com/site/maycreates/
Where I discuss the following projects
-DIY multi-zoning music distribution
-HTPC
-MediaPVR
-UnRAID Server
-and other projects
Marbles_00 is offline  
Reply Home A/V Distribution

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off