Actiontec MI424WR - a cheap MoCA bridge for all! - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 1218 Old 01-26-2011, 07:52 PM
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What router version is Verizon currently deploying now? My brother is getting FIOS next weekend and I want to get a jump on getting him some routers to bridge to.

Assuming they are deploying the F version, will its MOCA 1.1 work with A-E's MOCA 1.0? Perhaps the MOCA 1.1 device automatically kicks down to MOCA 1.0 if a MOCA 1.0 device exists on the link? I suspect one might be limited to 8 nodes under those circumstances. No facts here, just looking for them.
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post #632 of 1218 Old 01-27-2011, 12:31 AM
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I'm a newbie on this AV forum and have only some networking experience, so please excuse the lame question I may have.

Like you guys, I really like the MOCA solution to extend the Internet and network through out the home. I bought the Actiontec MI424WR FIOS router + an EC2200 ECB from Amazon for the purpose of bringing Internet from the living room to my bedroom upstair where I want to stream (Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu) HD movies on the Sony S370 blue-ray player. I've also tried wireless and homeplug AV, but they were not very reliable especially when it comes to video streaming.

Anyway, here's the configuration I have;
(Living Room) Wall Comcast coax -> 1-to-2 splitter -> Comcast modem & to the MI424WR. The Comcast modem pass to my TV
From my Comcast modem ethernet, I connect that to the MI424WR router WAN port and got Internet out of the LAN ports.
- confirmed my cable TV is working
- my Internet behind the MI424WR LAN & WiFi are also working

(My bedroom) I have the ECB2200 hooked up to the wall coax port. I then connected ethernet out to my Sony S370 unit and the coax pass through to my TV.
- my TV cable is working
- my Sony S370 cannot get on the Internet.

I went through the Sony player network auto setting and saw it has IP address 192.168.1.8 and the network check showed it's OK. However, I cannot get to Netflix or Hulu as it keeps saying check the Internet.

For verification, I hooked the same ethernet cable out from my ECB2200 to my Windows laptop and was able to get online to surf the web. Btw, my wireless is off when I checked this.

I thought my Sony player has issue so I took it downstair and connected directly to my Actiontec MI424WR router. It also got a similar IP and I was able to get on Netflix and Youtube.... What the hell??? I don't get it ..

Why is my Sony player not able to get on the Internet behind the ECB2200 while my laptop could? Both were using DHCP and was able to obtain an IP address.

Oh my daughter's nintendo Wii was able to get on the Internet behind MI424 router too. Maybe I should try to bring the Wii to my bedroom and try Netflix next.
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post #633 of 1218 Old 01-27-2011, 02:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

Thor17 - can you describe your test method to Skid? It would be good to make sure it is apples to apples.

Thanks,
xnappo

Purely crude and unscientific - just did a 1 GB and 12 GB file transfer from one computer to the other and took the average transfer rate windows explorer was reporting.
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post #634 of 1218 Old 01-27-2011, 04:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottzella View Post


Why is my Sony player not able to get on the Internet behind the ECB2200 while my laptop could? Both were using DHCP and was able to obtain an IP address.

Oh my daughter's nintendo Wii was able to get on the Internet behind MI424 router too. Maybe I should try to bring the Wii to my bedroom and try Netflix next.

That is really strange.. Until the Wii part I was thinking maybe your laptop had hard-coded DNS servers even though the IP was DHCP -but since the Wii works... I am out of ideas.

You might try using a hard-coded IP and DNS on the Sony?

xnappo
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post #635 of 1218 Old 01-27-2011, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

That is really strange.. Until the Wii part I was thinking maybe your laptop had hard-coded DNS servers even though the IP was DHCP -but since the Wii works... I am out of ideas.

You might try using a hard-coded IP and DNS on the Sony?

xnappo

Thanks for the reply xnappo.

I manually entered in the IP, subnet, gateway, and cable DNS but unfortunately that didn't work either.

The funny thing is my Windows XP laptop network is using DHCP and auto DNS. The only difference I see is one is Windows, the Sony is probably not .. maybe Linux? I don't know if that even matters but this is so weird. Oh I also tried pinging the Sony S370 player from the MI424WR using their diagnostic tool on the UI and that works. So they can talk to each other, but the player just can get to the Internet.

Was thinking if I need to open up some sort of ports on the router ... but it doesn't make sense since the player is going outbound only to retrieve stuff. Weird ..
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post #636 of 1218 Old 01-27-2011, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahacker View Post

Assuming they are deploying the F version, will its MOCA 1.1 work with A-E's MOCA 1.0? Perhaps the MOCA 1.1 device automatically kicks down to MOCA 1.0 if a MOCA 1.0 device exists on the link? I suspect one might be limited to 8 nodes under those circumstances. No facts here, just looking for them.

I believe it should be backward compatible. Read here

"MoCA's ratification of version 2.0 provides operators and OEMs with a technology roadmap of continued high performance and reliability for multi-room DVR, personal content sharing, OTT content sharing and IPTV applications. MoCA 2.0 offers two new performance modes with net or actual throughputs of 400 and 800 Mbps, respectively, each with a corresponding turbo mode. Likewise, two new lower power modes increase energy savings. Expanded operating frequency better accommodates all pay TV service providers. MoCA 2.0 is both evolutionary and revolutionary. Like MoCA 1.1, MoCA 2.0 is backward compatible with MoCA 1.0 to ensure preservation of operator investment in current equipment."

I can't post a link since I don't have 3 posts yet
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post #637 of 1218 Old 01-27-2011, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottzella View Post

Thanks for the reply xnappo.

I manually entered in the IP, subnet, gateway, and cable DNS but unfortunately that didn't work either.

The funny thing is my Windows XP laptop network is using DHCP and auto DNS. The only difference I see is one is Windows, the Sony is probably not .. maybe Linux? I don't know if that even matters but this is so weird. Oh I also tried pinging the Sony S370 player from the MI424WR using their diagnostic tool on the UI and that works. So they can talk to each other, but the player just can get to the Internet.

Was thinking if I need to open up some sort of ports on the router ... but it doesn't make sense since the player is going outbound only to retrieve stuff. Weird ..

If it makes you feel any better, it sounds to me like you're doing all the right things to diagnose.

Sorry that I can't help further.
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post #638 of 1218 Old 01-27-2011, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottzella View Post
...
I went through the Sony player network auto setting and saw it has IP address 192.168.1.8 and the network check showed it's OK. However, I cannot get to Netflix or Hulu as it keeps saying check the Internet.
...
I thought my Sony player has issue so I took it downstair and connected directly to my Actiontec MI424WR router. It also got a similar IP and I was able to get on Netflix and Youtube.... What the hell??? I don't get it ..

...
What IP address and netmask does the MI424WR have? What netmask does the Sony have?

EDIT: We also need the DNS server address and the gateway for the Sony, if possible.
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post #639 of 1218 Old 01-28-2011, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottzella View Post

I believe it should be backward compatible. Read here

"MoCA's ratification of version 2.0 provides operators and OEMs with a technology roadmap of continued high performance and reliability for multi-room DVR, personal content sharing, OTT content sharing and IPTV applications. MoCA 2.0 offers two new performance modes with net or actual throughputs of 400 and 800 Mbps, respectively, each with a corresponding turbo mode. Likewise, two new lower power modes increase energy savings. Expanded operating frequency better accommodates all pay TV service providers. MoCA 2.0 is both evolutionary and revolutionary. Like MoCA 1.1, MoCA 2.0 is backward compatible with MoCA 1.0 to ensure preservation of operator investment in current equipment."

I can't post a link since I don't have 3 posts yet

Yeah, I'm familiar with the spec, but I wanted some actual evidence from someone that has actually done it that the version A,C,D,E routers can talk to the F routers via MoCA without problems. Its a considerable cost difference if I've got to get an F router in order to play nicely with a delivered F router.
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post #640 of 1218 Old 01-29-2011, 02:52 PM
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i already have the Netgear MCAB1001 all set up and want to add another adapter to my bedroom and don't want to spend another 150 for two adapters when I only need one.. would just adding a Actiontec MI424WR to the bedroom work with my existing netgear setup?
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post #641 of 1218 Old 02-02-2011, 10:14 AM
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All >> thanks for checking my post.

I have posted my intended setup diagram, i am not sure if its a viable alternative to installing additional cabling. Currently i have only one coax cable outlet at my home in all rooms.

If this setup works please let me know the hardware thats required to set this up, i have read about triplexers and diplexers but i am not sure which would work well.

Please Advise and Thanks.
LL
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post #642 of 1218 Old 02-03-2011, 12:02 AM
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Simple: turn off the broadcast settings in the verizon fios router because it wont support multimedia streaming very well. Invest in the linksys, netgear, or apple airport extreme dual-band wireless router. Then if u still want to do p.o.e. Connections : power over ethernet, u still can.
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post #643 of 1218 Old 02-03-2011, 12:03 AM
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All of the isp companies' modem/routers are crap and not up to par
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post #644 of 1218 Old 02-03-2011, 04:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhaktaram View Post

All >> thanks for checking my post.

I have posted my intended setup diagram, i am not sure if its a viable alternative to installing additional cabling. Currently i have only one coax cable outlet at my home in all rooms.

If this setup works please let me know the hardware thats required to set this up, i have read about triplexers and diplexers but i am not sure which would work well.

Please Advise and Thanks.

I don't know a whole lot about Satellite, but my understanding is that it uses the same 1Ghz space for diplexing that the MoCA uses - and therefore this will not work.

See the MoCA FAQ here:
http://mocablog.net/faq/

xnappo
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post #645 of 1218 Old 02-03-2011, 04:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seraphynx View Post

i already have the Netgear MCAB1001 all set up and want to add another adapter to my bedroom and don't want to spend another 150 for two adapters when I only need one.. would just adding a Actiontec MI424WR to the bedroom work with my existing netgear setup?

Yes, this *should* work. I can't guarantee 100%, but the spec says it should work. Please let us know if you try and succeed. You can always resell it on eBay if it does not.

xnappo
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post #646 of 1218 Old 02-03-2011, 08:43 AM
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Is there any tweaking that will improve throughput?
I just got a Linksys WRT610N to replace my primary router. I decided to see if there is still a benefit to MOCA over my new router's 5GHz N capabilities. The 5GHz N actually works pretty well and did not drop out once while streaming a 3hr movie, average transfer rate through iperf is around 30Mbps. However, MOCA still benchmarked way better, about 80Mbps through iperf. However, when I copied a 950MB file, 5GHz N took 4min 3sec to copy (Windows reporting about 3.65MB/s). With the exact same file, MOCA took 4min 52sec (Windows reporting about 3.3MB/s). Very strange, why is iperf reporting so much faster transfer rates, but actual file copying is a lot slower? It should be closer to 10MB/s based on iperf benchmarks, I would think.

Shawn
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post #647 of 1218 Old 02-03-2011, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thor17 View Post

Ordered a moca splitter (2-way splitter with moca filter built in). While waiting for it I did some tests. As described in my last post, my outside cable drop feeds a two-way splitter that goes to my office and my basement. In the office, I have a 15dB amp (I forgot to mention this in my last post) feeding into one two-way splitter that goes to my cable modem and moca bridge. I had to install the amp in order for the cable modem to get a strong enough signal. In my basement i have my moca bridge directly connected to the wall.

Test 1 - Current setup (with amp and splitter)
cable modem levels:
receive: 8.4 dBmV
transmit: 50.0 dbmV
moca throughput (1 GB and 12 GB file transfer):
avg: 6.9 MB/s

Test 2 - No amp, just current splitter
cable modem levels:
receive: -6.7 dBmV (not strong enough for the modem to sync with cable co)
transmit: 57.0 dBmV
moca throughput (1 GB and 12 GB file transfer):
avg: 9.5 MB/s

Test 3 - No amp, diplexer (dug out an old motorola one from my voom box)
cable modem levels:
receive: -1.9 dBmV (it is strong enough to sync with cable co)
transmit: 46 dBmV
moca throughput (1 GB and 12 GB file transfer):
avg: 9.5 MB/s
I also tested with some 1080p Blu-rays and can stream some of them with no stuttering, others have stuttering. 1080p mkvs are fine.

So it looks like the amp was causing problems with the moca. I suppose I could reinsert the amp between the diplexer and cable modem, but since the signal is strong enough, I'm not going to bother.

Will post another test when my moca splitter comes in.

Since I had no idea what the specs of my old motorola diplexer was, I got a new diplexer (Perfect Vision PVDP2). It didn't change the performance. Same results as Test #3.

My moca filter splitter came in (Extreme Broadband POE-S202VF). I swapped my splitter outside with the moca filter splitter. Again, no change in performance. Same results as Test #3.

So in my setup, a diplexer helped keep cable signals strong enough for the cable modem to sync with the cable co, but didn't really improve moca throughput. The moca filter also did not help with the moca performance.
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post #648 of 1218 Old 02-03-2011, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thor17 View Post

So in my setup, a diplexer helped keep cable signals strong enough for the cable modem to sync with the cable co, but didn't really improve moca throughput. The moca filter also did not help with the moca performance.
Thanks very much for the report. I am thinking of switching to diplexers for my cable signal levels - but good to know not to expect a MoCA performance jump.

xnappo
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post #649 of 1218 Old 02-07-2011, 07:30 AM
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I have a curious issue with my MoCa setup. Initially, I had two actiontec rev f's set up one in my office where the cable modem is (split using a diplexer) and the other in my bedroom. With this setup I have had no issues (coax strength around 220) and it has been stable. I recently added a 3rd rev f router to my living room that I use with my playstation. Ever since, the network hasn't been stable (also on a diplexer) and MoCa will go down a couple times a day requiring me to turn my main router off and then on again. When this happens I know that it is a MoCa issue because I can't reach my other routers by IP from the main one, but looking at my coax stats (on the main router) everything looks fine in terms of signal and looking at the other routers, they all light up green for Coax signal. I have switched the MoCa channels around - this didn't work, in fact I think it was less reliable the higher the frequency. I replaced CoAx cable. Nothing seems to work. The only thing now that I wonder is whether there is some rogue splitter in my crawlspace somewhere that is causing the issue - but I find that highly unlikely since when it is connected I get very high throughput. Any thoughts/suggestions are welcome!
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post #650 of 1218 Old 02-07-2011, 07:52 AM
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Do you also have Verizon FiOS STB boxes? I believe the limit on the number of TV boxes and/or MI424WR's you can have is 8. I have 5 TV boxes and 3 MI424WR's in my setup. I tried adding another TV box, and it wasn't able to get an IP. When it does get an IP, one of the other devices loses its IP. If I remove any device from the network, everything works great.

This being said, I'll be curious to know if anyone has been able to run more than 8 devices, and if so, how?
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post #651 of 1218 Old 02-07-2011, 08:59 AM
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I don't have Fios at all, just regular cable - these are the only 3 MoCa devices I have in the house... What is odd to me is how the existence of an additional device (living room) brings the other (bedroom) device down with it...
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post #652 of 1218 Old 02-09-2011, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddler652 View Post

I have a curious issue with my MoCa setup. Initially, I had two actiontec rev f's set up one in my office where the cable modem is (split using a diplexer) and the other in my bedroom. With this setup I have had no issues (coax strength around 220) and it has been stable. I recently added a 3rd rev f router to my living room that I use with my playstation. Ever since, the network hasn't been stable (also on a diplexer) and MoCa will go down a couple times a day requiring me to turn my main router off and then on again. When this happens I know that it is a MoCa issue because I can't reach my other routers by IP from the main one, but looking at my coax stats (on the main router) everything looks fine in terms of signal and looking at the other routers, they all light up green for Coax signal. I have switched the MoCa channels around - this didn't work, in fact I think it was less reliable the higher the frequency. I replaced CoAx cable. Nothing seems to work. The only thing now that I wonder is whether there is some rogue splitter in my crawlspace somewhere that is causing the issue - but I find that highly unlikely since when it is connected I get very high throughput. Any thoughts/suggestions are welcome!

You need to isolate if its a router problem vs a cabling or signal problem.

You've got three routers X,Y,and Z. You say that X and Y work together fine, but with Z in the link, things don't work. You need to test X with Z and Y with Z independently on your office to bedroom link.

Isolating your run to your living room should be easy by using your working X and Y routers ONLY to test that link. Move your Y router from your bedroom and put it in the living room. Run in that configuration for a day or two without the Z router connected.

You could also just connect up the 3 routers together with a splitter and see if they play nice together.

That's what I'd do absent an advanced coax MoCA signal analyzer.
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post #653 of 1218 Old 02-09-2011, 10:52 AM
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Thanks for the tips - I am definitely going to try that after I complete my current test. I swapped router Z (from the living room) to the Office (X) so that it becomes the network controller. I turned all of them off, waited to for 10 mins, turned Z (office) on first, then X(living room) and lastly Y(bedroom). So far so good, but I am not holding my breath.

The interesting thing I noticed about my previous setup is that it seemed like the actiontec that linked up to the controller first was the stable one. Whichever non controller that was turned on first was stable, the one turned on second was not - even if I had them on the same run with a splitter. Very odd...

I will report back with any progress....
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post #654 of 1218 Old 02-10-2011, 12:34 AM
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Considering that this thread is regarding the MI424WR and its usage as a MoCA bridge, I thought I would share my success story.

I initially purchased a pair of ECB2200 (HME2200) MoCA adapters from Amazon a while back. My mom's house is devoid of ethernet networking and I am unable to install it. Wireless is not a great option since it is a large ranch house. Phoneline networking is poor because of interference with the power lines in the house. I am sure the power lines in the house are too old to give me a good connection by PowerLine. So I went with MoCA. I just plugged in the two ECB2200's at the two locations I wanted them, the coax light went on and I had a 100mbps connection between the two locations.

(One thing I want to point out is that initially I had the cable modem running off the coax-out port of one of the ECB2200's. I figured that since the downstream was around 29.4 MHz and the upstream was around 717 MHz, as indicated by the config page, and MoCA was stated to operate above 1 GHz that there wouldn't be a problem. I found that there was a problem and the cable modem would consistently lose connectivity. I even tried a splitter, having the ECB2200 on one output and the modem on the other, to no avail. The upstream SNR was not terrible, but it seemed the MoCA was interfering in some way, which is why I just moved the cable modem to its own dedicated line as you can see in the attached diagram of my setup.)

I didn't want to pay $70 more for another ECB2200 so after researching on the internet, reading that the MI424WR would interact with the ECB2200 I decided I would get an MI424WR router to try. I got one off of Craigslist for $20, a Revision E (Rev E) model.

I first read the directions on setting this up as a bridge. That is, I followed the directions in the first post here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1145636
However, because I also wanted the router to be a wireless access point, I skipped step 4 and left the wireless enabled, and in step 8 I checked the boxes next to the Wireless connection.

After I had the router all set, I plugged it into the Coax line, but nothing happened. The coax light did not go on, but the ECB2200's were running fine. I then tried moving the MI424WR next to one of the ECB2200's, running it off the coax-out port from the ECB2200. That also did nothing. I finally decided that I should try unplugging everything and repowering everything. With the MI424WR hooked to the ECB2200 coax-out port, and the coax-in port still hooked to the cable line, I powered everything up and every unit worked perfectly - all three units lit up with their coax light. It seems that the router needs to dictate to the ECB2200's what frequency to use. I unplugged the MI424WR and put it in the location I wanted it, plugged it back in and it still worked great.

I attached a picture of the setup I have:
Yellow triangle = Comcast-supplied amplifier
Purple Circle = Comcast-supplied cable modem
Solid Blue Circle = television with no STB
Blue circle with red diamond = television with DTA STB from Comcast
Blue circle with cyan diamond = television with HD STB from Comcast
Blue circle with black diamond = tv tuner in a computer
Green Circle = ECB2200
Red Circle = MI424WR router connected by coax
Gray box = 1000 MHz Comcast-supplied splitter
Orange box = 900 Mhz unshielded splitter I picked up from the hardware store

I get the full 100mbps connection with this setup (or well, 94mbps as I saw in the bandwidth meter). The MI424WR log says the connection supports 224mbps down, 226mbps up.

One of the ECB2200 units is connected to a router, with DHCP enabled, that is connected to the cable modem. A computer is connected off of this router.
The other ECB2200 unit is directly connected to a router setup as a wireless/ethernet bridge with DHCP disabled (similar to the MI424WR settings). A computer is connected by ethernet to this router.
A computer and a sumsung TV are connected to the MI424WR by ethernet, and I can connect wirelessly to it.

Everything receives an IP without issue.


For those interested, the MI424WR recognizes the computer and the samsung tv connected to it (by ethernet) as ethernet connections, anything connected wirelessly as wireless connections, and everything else is identified as a coax connection.
LL

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post #655 of 1218 Old 02-10-2011, 10:35 AM
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Just wanted to give everyone hope for those like me that don't have CAT-5/6 throughout the house. It is possible to get high speed networking at each coax location fairly cheaply with the MI424WR and it requires no daily maintenance whatsoever. Just follow the detailed instructions in this thread's original post. Here is what I have arrived at after several years:

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post #656 of 1218 Old 02-10-2011, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahacker View Post

Just wanted to give everyone hope for those like me that don't have CAT-5/6 throughout the house. It is possible to get high speed networking at each coax location fairly cheaply with the MI424WR and it requires no daily maintenance whatsoever. Just follow the detailed instructions in this thread's original post. Here is what I have arrived at after several years:

Wow great diagram.

Just curious, why use the powerline networking? Did you not have coax in that room?
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post #657 of 1218 Old 02-10-2011, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottJ View Post

Wow great diagram.

Just curious, why use the powerline networking? Did you not have coax in that room?

Thanks. As you suspected, I don't have coax in that room. The new powerline networking supports my 30+Mbit FIOS rates with no problem too.
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post #658 of 1218 Old 02-10-2011, 09:23 PM
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Can you use cable internet and this bridge at the same time?

I am on DSL, but Bell is going to rape people with ridiculous UBB charge so I am switching to cable and VOIP.

Stop the meter!

http://openmedia.ca/meter
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post #659 of 1218 Old 02-11-2011, 02:53 PM
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Woah...AWESOME thread!! I've got one room where I have a brand new coax run but no ethernet. Really didn't want to have to pull and fish more cable and throw in the fact its a tricky location and I didn't feel up for it.

Enter thread awesomeness: come to find out I can get an additional MI424WR (I'm on Fios currently) and instant ethernet connectivity for this additional room!!

Found a rev D on ebay for $30.00 and hopefully its on its way soon! I'm assuming it doesn't matter which rev of current MI424WR I have (I think its the one with draft N wireless)?

Thanks for the incredible resource!
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post #660 of 1218 Old 02-11-2011, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elty View Post

Can you use cable internet and this bridge at the same time?

I am on DSL, but Bell is going to rape people with ridiculous UBB charge so I am switching to cable and VOIP.

Stop the meter!

http://openmedia.ca/meter

Yes, it will work fine.

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