Actiontec MI424WR - a cheap MoCA bridge for all! - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 1223 Old 07-02-2009, 11:37 AM
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Thanks xnappo. I may just use cat5 for now. After buying a Belkin 1Gb ethernet over powerline and only getting 2-40Mb at best I am a little nervous about manufacturer claims.
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post #62 of 1223 Old 07-02-2009, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lemmy999 View Post

Thanks xnappo. I may just use cat5 for now. After buying a Belkin 1Gb ethernet over powerline and only getting 2-40Mb at best I am a little nervous about manufacturer claims.

I had a similar bad experience with power line, and MoCA has been great(faster than any of my equipment since I don't have gigabit ethernet anywhere). But then again I have RG-6.

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post #63 of 1223 Old 07-02-2009, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

[EDIT] I found a table showing that RG-59 has a 21.5db loss over 100ft, while RG-6 has a 6.1db loss (at 1GHz). According to my calculations, this means that 280 feet of RG-59 is equivalent to 985 feet (300M) of RG-6. Doesn't directly answer your question, but should help...

Ya, that does help. So I should be able to get back with my 150 foot RG59 cable run. Thanks.
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post #64 of 1223 Old 07-02-2009, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by stanglx View Post

Great thread... Ironically I have been researching this for a while.. and glad I stumbled oupon this.. I almost bout the Netgear last week... For 36 and change I got the Actiontech from above... cant beat the price.. low price if it works.. of course I will wish I bought more if it works out for me.. I will let you guys know how it works out... I will be going from top floor one side of the house to 1st floor on the other side of the house.

It should work fine with no problems. Just make sure you don't have amps in the way. I get very fast pings (sub 5 ms generally) to all my devices (20 total, including 5 actiontec MoCA routers) and throughput of about 70% of the theoretical max of the 100Mb lan. Maybe it could go faster, but I haven't tested it extensively yet.

Interesting thing about an amp that I used (a regular inexpensive Antronix). At one point, unthinkingly I put it between the modem and the rest of the network. And everything CONTINUED TO WORK! The light stayed on and all of the devices on the network were able to acces the internet and I was able to ping everything just fine. That, even with a very low return path on the amp. Then, I had to change the power supply out on the unit connected to the modem. I knew what was going to happen. Sure enough, once I disconnected and reconnected the power, the network wouldn't come back up. So, I removed the amp and the network went active again.

Very weird, and I still can't figure out why it worked for a while with the amp in place.
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post #65 of 1223 Old 07-02-2009, 04:53 PM
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This does sound interesting enough to try... but what about security? Won't this leave your network open for anyone to come in through the cable wireing??
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post #66 of 1223 Old 07-02-2009, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ZeroH View Post

This does sound interesting enough to try... but what about security? Won't this leave your network open for anyone to come in through the cable wireing??

MoCA uses DES encryption and you can set a password for your network just like wireless.

Also, if you are in the 'burbs, the signal between your house and your neighbor's is isolated. In an apartment, this may not be the case.

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post #67 of 1223 Old 07-02-2009, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

MoCA uses DES encryption and you can set a password for your network just like wireless.

Also, if you are in the 'burbs, the signal between your house and your neighbor's is isolated. In an apartment, this may not be the case.

xnappo

That's great! Thanks. Now, how is that done? That would probably be useful to have in the steps in the first post.
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post #68 of 1223 Old 07-03-2009, 05:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroH View Post

That's great! Thanks. Now, how is that done? That would probably be useful to have in the steps in the first post.

My Network->Network Connections->Network(Home/Office)->Settings->Coax

Select 'privacy' and set the password. Make sure this is the same on all the routers.

Again, if you are not in an apartment, this isn't really necessary.

You can download the full manual here:
http://www.fiberfaq.com/article-37.html

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post #69 of 1223 Old 07-03-2009, 08:41 AM
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I'll also add that it's my understanding the MoCA cannot go backwards through an amplifier, even one that is bidirectional WRT to cable modems, VOD, etc. So if you have an amplified splitter at your main drop, it should protect you against access by systems outside your home.

See post # 11

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/sho...d.php?t=426963
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post #70 of 1223 Old 07-03-2009, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Fyodor View Post

I'll also add that it's my understanding the MoCA cannot go backwards through an amplifier, even one that is bidirectional WRT to cable modems, VOD, etc. So if you have an amplified splitter at your main drop, it should protect you against access by systems outside your home.

See post # 11
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/sho...d.php?t=426963

Typically that's true. Although, like I said a few posts up, mine did work briefly for some strange reason.

The return path for amplifiers is only around 42 Mhz, which is WAY lower than the 1000+ Mhz require for MoCA.

Also, if you want to run at different channels, you may want to consider splitters that go higher than the typical cable company 1000 Mhz.
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post #71 of 1223 Old 07-03-2009, 11:28 AM
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Ethernet used to be routed over coax, but they stopped when they went above 10Mb networks. Obviously it wasn't due to bandwidth issues because coax has much higher bandwidth than even cat7 and can run over much longer distances and is less susceptible to interference and is more secure to eavesdropping. So why did they go away from Coax? From what I have read it was due to twisted pair being cheaper and easier to install and not as many issues with impedance matching and stubs. Is there any other reason?
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post #72 of 1223 Old 07-03-2009, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyodor View Post

I'll also add that it's my understanding the MoCA cannot go backwards through an amplifier, even one that is bidirectional WRT to cable modems, VOD, etc. So if you have an amplified splitter at your main drop, it should protect you against access by systems outside your home.

See post # 11

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/sho...d.php?t=426963

That statement confuses me.. if that is true, then how do you expect any data (like the connection you want to have between the two moca boxes) to go through at all? In order for moca (or any network) to be useful, you need to be able to send as well as receive. Am I missing something? Sorry if I ask the silly questions but I'm fairly new to this technology.
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post #73 of 1223 Old 07-03-2009, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroH View Post

That statement confuses me.. if that is true, then how do you expect any data (like the connection you want to have between the two moca boxes) to go through at all? In order for moca (or any network) to be useful, you need to be able to send as well as receive. Am I missing something? Sorry if I ask the silly questions but I'm fairly new to this technology.

If you want to prevent the signal from travelling from your house back into the cableco network, put an amplifier before the splitter at the point where the cable enters your house. This in essence isolates your home from the rest of the cable network (as it pertains to MoCA). The cable wiring inside your home (which is all interconnected in the vast majority of cases) acts as the network wiring.
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post #74 of 1223 Old 07-04-2009, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by GooberedUp View Post

If you want to prevent the signal from travelling from your house back into the cableco network, put an amplifier before the splitter at the point where the cable enters your house. This in essence isolates your home from the rest of the cable network (as it pertains to MoCA). The cable wiring inside your home (which is all interconnected in the vast majority of cases) acts as the network wiring.

Ahh.. sorry.. nevermind then.. as I'm in an apt building and don't have access to the main coax line.
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post #75 of 1223 Old 07-04-2009, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ZeroH View Post

Ahh.. sorry.. nevermind then.. as I'm in an apt building and don't have access to the main coax line.


Your best bet then is to use the privacy setting xnappo outlined.
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post #76 of 1223 Old 07-08-2009, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GooberedUp View Post

Typically that's true. Although, like I said a few posts up, mine did work briefly for some strange reason.

The return path for amplifiers is only around 42 Mhz, which is WAY lower than the 1000+ Mhz require for MoCA.

Also, if you want to run at different channels, you may want to consider splitters that go higher than the typical cable company 1000 Mhz.

I'm looking at your post- you said that the amp was between the cable modem and the rest of the coax. Was the amp between the MoCA bridges? The MoCA bridges wouldn't connect to the cable modem via coax-they'd connect to whatever bridge was near the cable modem/router, which would be connected via ethernet to a LAN port on your router, which is connected to the cable modem via its WAN port. Or am I misunderstanding what you wrote?

F
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post #77 of 1223 Old 07-08-2009, 08:41 AM
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I had the amplifier on the cable between the Actiontec bridge connected to my router (which is connected to the cable modem) and the other bridges. Literally that would have been the only path of communicationt between my primary Actiontec and the other bridges. And the amp was sitting in-between.

Basically, in my office, the cable comes in and is split between the cable modem, the actiontec and a TV. I had the amp installed at the point where the cable came into the room and before the 3-way split.

I wanted to experiment a little more with that phenomenon, but my network is working so fast and flawlessly that I don't want to jinx myself.
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post #78 of 1223 Old 07-08-2009, 03:14 PM
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I am still on the fence between MoCa and just biting the bullet and cutting holes in walls and running ethernet.

I have probably a really stupid set of questions, so bear with me.

I use TWC as a provider for both cable TV and internet. Coax comes in from the ground and is split into 4 places outside the house, 1 going downstairs, and 3 going upstairs. For this purpose, 2 of the upstairs splits are irrevelant as I don't need them for MoCa purposes (already have ethernet in those two rooms). I want to run the MoCa between the 1 downstairs and 1 upstairs. Will that work? They are clearly split before they come into the house.

I do have an amplifier, but would set it up as upstairs->MoCa->splitter->cable modem/cable box, and downstairs->MoCa->amplifier->cable box(es).

I could potentially run the amplifier before the outside splitter, but it would be difficult as it needs power and there is no outlet anywhere around.

Also, we are running 3 cable boxes downstairs, and 3 upstairs, as well as the cable modem. All but 1 are HD, and 1 is a DVR. Would adding MoCa be too much of load?

Thanks!!
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post #79 of 1223 Old 07-08-2009, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
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For this purpose, 2 of the upstairs splits are irrevelant as I don't need them for MoCa purposes (already have ethernet in those two rooms). I want to run the MoCa between the 1 downstairs and 1 upstairs. Will that work? They are clearly split before they come into the house.

Yes, it will work as long as the cable run isn't too long. You want the total cable distance between the two MoCA boxes to be less than 300m(which, unless you have a really big house, shouldn't be an issue). There is also the question of the quality of the cable - do you have any idea how old it is?

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post #80 of 1223 Old 07-08-2009, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

Yes, it will work as long as the cable run isn't too long. You want the total cable distance between the two MoCA boxes to be less than 300m(which, unless you have a really big house, shouldn't be an issue). There is also the question of the quality of the cable - do you have any idea how old it is?

xnappo

Thanks! We have a 2300 sq ft house (not including 2 car garage) that was built about 4 years ago. Cable quality should be fine, I would think?

It's a trivial exercise to move the amp to before the splitter into the house, we checked it out tonight, so that may be the next step. It should help anyhow as our upstairs HD cable box seems to be very unhappy with its signal strength lately and the amp is currently only on the downstairs tvs.
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post #81 of 1223 Old 07-08-2009, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyKat View Post

Thanks! We have a 2300 sq ft house (not including 2 car garage) that was built about 4 years ago. Cable quality should be fine, I would think?

It's a trivial exercise to move the amp to before the splitter into the house, we checked it out tonight, so that may be the next step. It should help anyhow as our upstairs HD cable box seems to be very unhappy with its signal strength lately and the amp is currently only on the downstairs tvs.

Definitely should be fine if it was built a 4 years ago. It is weird they did the splitter outside with a house that new.

One warning about amplifying your cable signal (this is a bit off topic) - many times the amplifier is masking the real problem, which is signal to noise. Signal to noise issues are caused by ingress. Ingress is when there is a bad connection or a nick in a cable somewhere causing over-the-air frequencies to get into your cable system. An amplifier can help here, but really it is best to try to find the bad connection/nick. To do this, you would need to either get a tech out to look at your signal to noise, or do it yourself. If you have SciAtl cable boxes, PM me and I can walk you through what to do.

If you are already fully aware of all of this, please ignore

And to others, sorry again for going OT.

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post #82 of 1223 Old 07-10-2009, 06:13 AM
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So late last night I received my Actiontech MoCa box... followed the instructions in this thread and got it working... My Fios router is upstairs on the far end of my house and the device so far where I have tested is on the other end of the house going through 3 splitters... So far using my netbook I was able to push it to 50Mbs transfering 3 concurrent files. What is weird is that transferring only 1 file I could only get 20Mbs - which does not make any sense.. again its a netbook and can be constrained by many factors... I also tested my XBOX360 through media center and I get full bars in the network tuning test - HDTV. My upload and download match my fios 20Mbs down 5Mbs up.. so no issues for internet.

Tonight if I have a chance I will hook it up to my HTPC (in my bed room) which is the farthest run in my house (over 200m not that I have a big house but my FIOS Internet router in my office is on a different run then the cable to my bedroom where my HTPC is located.

So far I am very pleased with the results (other then XBOX360 performance with media center.. still sucks) so far for the money, distance and comparison to Wireless N WOW what a difference!!!!

I might buy another unit just in case!!!
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post #83 of 1223 Old 07-10-2009, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by stanglx View Post

I might buy another unit just in case!!!

That is what I did! I actually am using 3 and have 2 spares. I think this setup will work for me for a looonnggg time.

Regarding speed testing, I recommend using Iperf:
http://openmaniak.com/iperf.php

Note that with my setup, I hadn't ever pushed the limits of my network. I actually found after messing around a bit that my bottleneck are in this order:

- Computers (2nd newest one is 3 years old, 100baseT)
- Router (crappy Linksys 160WRT)
- MoCA

Regards,
Chris
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post #84 of 1223 Old 07-10-2009, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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GooberedUp,

I know you don't have satellite yourself, but I am still a bit perplexed by your post here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...1&postcount=40

It is great info - I understand the passthrough issue, but I don't understand how this setup prevents the satellite working in the 950Mhz-2Ghz range from interfering with MoCA?

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post #85 of 1223 Old 07-10-2009, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

GooberedUp,

I know you don't have satellite yourself, but I am still a bit perplexed by your post here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...1&postcount=40

It is great info - I understand the passthrough issue, but I don't understand how this setup prevents the satellite working in the 950Mhz-2Ghz range from interfering with MoCA?

xnappo


The triplexer muxes/demuxes the signals. So, you don't have the signals traveling and colliding through the cable at the same time.
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post #86 of 1223 Old 07-10-2009, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanglx View Post

So late last night I received my Actiontech MoCa box... followed the instructions in this thread and got it working... My Fios router is upstairs on the far end of my house and the device so far where I have tested is on the other end of the house going through 3 splitters... So far using my netbook I was able to push it to 50Mbs transfering 3 concurrent files. What is weird is that transferring only 1 file I could only get 20Mbs - which does not make any sense.. again its a netbook and can be constrained by many factors... I also tested my XBOX360 through media center and I get full bars in the network tuning test - HDTV. My upload and download match my fios 20Mbs down 5Mbs up.. so no issues for internet.

Tonight if I have a chance I will hook it up to my HTPC (in my bed room) which is the farthest run in my house (over 200m not that I have a big house but my FIOS Internet router in my office is on a different run then the cable to my bedroom where my HTPC is located.

So far I am very pleased with the results (other then XBOX360 performance with media center.. still sucks) so far for the money, distance and comparison to Wireless N WOW what a difference!!!!

I might buy another unit just in case!!!

Weird that only a single file is traveling that slowly.

I noticed a simialr issue when passing data from an older and slower 10/100 adapter equipped PC that I use as a music/video server to a Gigabit adapter equipped HTPC. I could only get about 25 Mbps throughput. When I went Gigabit to Gigabit eqipped PCs, I saw faster speeds (75 Mbps). Maybe it's a coincidence. But, I'm not sure. So, I'm getting ready to put a gigabit adapter into the slow machine and see if it makes a difference.

The machines I used for testing are also on different runs. Plus, from one machine to another, they go through three splitters and a tap.

It's been basically flawless.

I was also thinking about buying extras, but internet speeds are increasing so rapidly that I'm not sure these will be fast enough in another two years or so. Presently I have a 50/10 service for which this is fine. But, if it ever goes faster than 75 Mbps, then my MoCA devices won't be able to handle it anymore.
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post #87 of 1223 Old 07-11-2009, 06:39 PM
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Well.... I went back and did some tests... So for the most part it worked and it was the netbook limitation.. I was able to stream up to 65 Mb/s using JPerf.. and this was a a real far run with 2 splitters in between... with it bursting to 80 Mb/s Unfortunately for some reason I was not able to stream my high def movies even though I only need about 50 Mb/s. Doesnt make much sense... but I am no expert with MoCA... This sucks.. I was hoping to not have to run cat 6.. but since im running wire I might as run the good stuff... Dont get me wrong for streaming movies, pictures and even DVDs it was fine... just had an issue with High Def (blurays)... Thanks for your help.. I will use the unit until I run the ethernet in my house.. then I will ebay it...
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post #88 of 1223 Old 07-11-2009, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your help.. I will use the unit until I run the ethernet in my house.. then I will ebay it...

You should easily be able to stream HD with those speed tests. What are you using to play the movie?

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post #89 of 1223 Old 07-11-2009, 09:08 PM
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I agree... which is why it doesnt make sense... I tried MPC-HC, Windows Media Player, Media Center.. they all exhibited the same stuttering issue.. not too bad but its not like my wired Gigabit/100 Mb... When I ran the test seems the Jitter was not registering and there is always jitter.. Bandwidth is not the only factor that can affect streaming media unfortunately... I also noticed I did not have any errors... So I am very amazed... I have the bandwidth but something else is a foot... keep in mind the machine I tested this with I have wired also to my Gigabit network switch... I wanted to make an apples to apples comparison... Gigabit link... No issues.. streams perfectly on all players all moves (H.264 and VC1)... MoCA.. H.264 is a little choppy and VC1 is unwatchable - VC1 has a much higher bandwidth requirement... all on the same machine streaming from the same server.. Network is definitely the issue... but what I dont know yet.. Watching DVD is fine...

We need MoCA expert on this... OR I need something to proritize the packets.. keep in mind the channel I am using is the same channel that all my STBs are one... maybe I will try unplugging them all and see if they are interferring... Hmmmmmmmm I know there is QoS on my main router... I wonder if the QoS is hindering the routing of packets... Im welcome to ideas...





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You should easily be able to stream HD with those speed tests. What are you using to play the movie?

xnappo

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post #90 of 1223 Old 07-12-2009, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanglx View Post

So for the most part it worked and it was the netbook limitation..

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So late last night I received my Actiontech MoCa box... followed the instructions in this thread and got it working... My Fios router is upstairs on the far end of my house and the device so far where I have tested is on the other end of the house going through 3 splitters... So far using my netbook I was able to push it to 50Mbs transfering 3 concurrent files. What is weird is that transferring only 1 file I could only get 20Mbs - which does not make any sense.. again its a netbook and can be constrained by many factors...

Are you streaming to a netbook? They haven't a whole lot of processing power to spare, if it's doing the decode in software entirely then that plus the overhead of getting data over the network may be just a hair too much. If it plays fine from local storage on the netbook then it just may be that you're so close to maxing out the processor time just playing the video there isn't enough to handle network IO. Considering the differences in transferring 1 vs several files I suspect the network drivers / hardware on the netbook may be your limitation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanglx View Post

We need MoCA expert on this... OR I need something to proritize the packets.. keep in mind the channel I am using is the same channel that all my STBs are one... maybe I will try unplugging them all and see if they are interferring... Hmmmmmmmm I know there is QoS on my main router... I wonder if the QoS is hindering the routing of packets... Im welcome to ideas...

Really not going to be a problem. Assuming even if you had a 50mbit FiOS connection, fully saturated with a slew of DVRs doing VOD/PPV at once, you'd still have over 50mbit in raw bandwidth left in MoCA - MoCA can handle more data than the 100Base-T Ethernet a MoCA bridge would be limited to.
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