Actiontec MI424WR - a cheap MoCA bridge for all! - Page 41 - AVS Forum
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post #1201 of 1218 Old 04-29-2014, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Viche View Post

...I have a Rev D Actiontech, and I'd say about 16 to 20 wifi devices attached to it (not all working at the same time). Once i got up to a certain number, stuff stopped working properly. Certain devices would lose connection and have to be re-added to the router.
There are limits to just how much bandwidth can be used with WiFi. It's a collision-sense kind of network, so the more devices you have active, the more they'll potentially step on each other's attempts to use the network. There's no way to avoid this. A way to minimize it is to put as many devices as possible on wired connections.

Make sure your DHCP range is large enough to accommodate all the devices you have connecting. If your DHCP pool isn't large enough then devices won't be able to get (or keep) addresses.

Make sure you're on a WiFi channel not being used by (as many) other WiFi networks nearby.

Yes, all firewall routers eventually run up against port and session limits. Most of the time it's not (much of) an issue as sessions are assembled/disassembled relatively rapidly. But as more devices are active simultaneously it's possible to run out of them. This can be very tricky to troubleshoot. In office situations where bandwidth is limited it's sometimes common to solve this by using a proxy server. With that you're at least funneling all the sessions through a single server which can help alleviate the session woes somewhat.
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post #1202 of 1218 Old 04-29-2014, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins View Post

I think the bulk of the difference is Rev. E adds MOCA 1.1 (faster MOCA speed and required if using with Tivo Mini anywhere on the same MOCA network) and Rev. I adds gigabit ethernet. Sorry, I can't help on the port issue. You may want to disable wireless on the Actiontec and connect a different router via ethernet to handle the wireless connections.

Thanks for the info.
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There are limits to just how much bandwidth can be used with WiFi. It's a collision-sense kind of network, so the more devices you have active, the more they'll potentially step on each other's attempts to use the network. There's no way to avoid this. A way to minimize it is to put as many devices as possible on wired connections.

Make sure your DHCP range is large enough to accommodate all the devices you have connecting. If your DHCP pool isn't large enough then devices won't be able to get (or keep) addresses.

Make sure you're on a WiFi channel not being used by (as many) other WiFi networks nearby.

Yes, all firewall routers eventually run up against port and session limits. Most of the time it's not (much of) an issue as sessions are assembled/disassembled relatively rapidly. But as more devices are active simultaneously it's possible to run out of them. This can be very tricky to troubleshoot. In office situations where bandwidth is limited it's sometimes common to solve this by using a proxy server. With that you're at least funneling all the sessions through a single server which can help alleviate the session woes somewhat.

Note: these devices are not all on at the same time. Most might be off, then a friend comes over and they are not able to connect in something like a local multiplayer session of minecraft on ipod. Or I might go to control Sonos, and the device can't find the controller. Things just start getting wonky. If I reset the router or kill all of the port forwards, then things will work again, but once additional devices are added over time, things get wonky again.

Okay, the DHCP thing makes sense. Do I just increase the range? What are the limits? Does it depend on Rev #?

How will I know if my wifi channel is being used by other wifi networks? Just try others and see if it improves things?

In you last paragraph, does the issue occur when devices are trying to simultaneously use the same network, and are the issues speed related? As I said, in my situation it seems more like a cumulative issue and an all or nothing effect. Even if I were to turn off all of the other wifi devices, those last few added to the network seem to have issues, as if the router is reserving the ports for the devices which are now turned off and not willing to release them for the new devices.

Could my router be going bad? Someone from Sonos suggested as much. frown.gif
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post #1203 of 1218 Old 04-29-2014, 12:19 PM
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Use a pc to see what channels any other wifi networks that show up are using. How many otHer wifi networks do you see? If there's more than a half dozen then you might never solve the issue of congestion.

Moving as much as possible to a wired connection is the best place to start. The consider getting a newer wifi access point, one that supports 5ghz channels, and make sure as many of your devices capable of using are configured to do so.

Dhcp ranges on routers like this are usually limited to the 253 device limit of a class C subnet.

One other thought , set up a guest wifi access point. Let visitors use that. Letting them on your own network is asking for security troubles. I don't care how well anyone thinks they 'know' or 'trust' friends... It's a bad idea to give anyone access to your secured network.
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post #1204 of 1218 Old 04-29-2014, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post

Use a pc to see what channels any other wifi networks that show up are using. How many otHer wifi networks do you see? If there's more than a half dozen then you might never solve the issue of congestion.

Moving as much as possible to a wired connection is the best place to start. The consider getting a newer wifi access point, one that supports 5ghz channels, and make sure as many of your devices capable of using are configured to do so.

Dhcp ranges on routers like this are usually limited to the 253 device limit of a class C subnet.

One other thought , set up a guest wifi access point. Let visitors use that. Letting them on your own network is asking for security troubles. I don't care how well anyone thinks they 'know' or 'trust' friends... It's a bad idea to give anyone access to your secured network.

Thanks for the ideas. So I'll take one thing at a time...well 2.

When you say use my pc to see other wife networks and their channels. Do you mean like when my phone or other device searches for close by wifi networks? My pc is hardwired, so I'm assuming you mean to use a wireless laptop to detect....how can I tell which "channels" those networks are using?

Secondly, can I just change the DHCP range so that it is increased to 253?
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post #1205 of 1218 Old 05-14-2014, 03:17 PM
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So after using a pair of old Verizon Actiontecs (one Rev. for almost 3 years, during which time I found that internet speed tests through the router directly connected to my cable modem and at the other end of the Moca connection were the same (typically topping out around 25Mbps), I got a solicitation from Comcast to upgrade my cable modem for free (though I would have to buy a backup battery for the VOIP circuit if I wanted one).

Before taking out the old cablemodem, i ran the Ookla speedtest that PC Magazine has been asking people to run lately over the course of a day and night. The speed stayed pretty close to 34 Mbps, which surprised me.

Put in the new one, spent the obligatory hour on the phone getting it to work - since Comcast forgot to "provision" it to allow the web activation - or even first-level tech help - to work until I was transferred to the "internet connection" department.

Everything fixed, I ran the same speed test: 66 to 72 Mbps! I was very pleased (the Comcast tech said it's rated to go a little over 100Mbps, but she hadn't heard of anyone actually getting that much speed).

Went down to the other end of my Moca setup and tested from the other end (which has a faster computer):34 Mbps.

So now I'm suffering from what has been called "the revolution of rising expectations." Everything I'm doing works fine, but it sure would be nice to have that much speed across my network.

I don't know that it would be practical to run a long ethernet cable from the second floor down to my basement, plus some thirty to forty feet sideways, both in terms of physical and electrical practicality. I need to keep everything on a single network since I have my Oppo in the theaer pull FLACs off my upstairs computer via UPnP/DLNA.

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post #1206 of 1218 Old 05-15-2014, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philnick View Post


I don't know that it would be practical to run a long ethernet cable from the second floor down to my basement, plus some thirty to forty feet sideways, both in terms of physical and electrical practicality. I need to keep everything on a single network since I have my Oppo in the theaer pull FLACs off my upstairs computer via UPnP/DLNA.

I know I started this thread promoting MoCa - but seriously run the cable smile.gif The distance is not a big deal at all and having GigE speeds in my house has completely changed the way I use my computers. Copying gigabytes across the network is no big deal.

The key thing is to noodle on how to run the cable cleanly for a couple of weeks before actually committing to it. I think I took half a year thinking about it, and 3 hours doing it myself smile.gif

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post #1207 of 1218 Old 05-16-2014, 10:14 PM
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I know I started this thread promoting MoCa - but seriously run the cable smile.gif The distance is not a big deal at all and having GigE speeds in my house has completely changed the way I use my computers. Copying gigabytes across the network is no big deal.

The key thing is to noodle on how to run the cable cleanly for a couple of weeks before actually committing to it. I think I took half a year thinking about it, and 3 hours doing it myself smile.gif

xnappo

Well, it has come to a head that will require faster action than that.

I brought a friend over to play him some networked music in my basement theater (the files are on my 2nd floor pc) and discovered, to my horror, that my downstairs Fios box had bought the farm. The only light that comes on is the one on the power transformer that plugs into the wall!

You've probably followed my stories about battling stray capacitance from a weak current on the shield coming in from the street knocking out the bridge connection to my master router until I grounded the diplexer's case.

I'm not about to buy another used Fios box - so a quick check with the elecronic oracle revealed that the maximum cable run for ethernet is 100 meters, which I can probably stay below, but doing the run neatly will be a real trick, particularly if I want to keep it entirely indoors.

If you have any general tips I should keep in mind, I'd love to hear them!

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post #1208 of 1218 Old 05-17-2014, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
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...the maximum cable run for ethernet is 100 meters, which I can probably stay below, but doing the run neatly will be a real trick, particularly if I want to keep it entirely indoors.

There is such a thing as Ethernet cabling rated for outdoor exposure. It'll cost more, of course. Sometimes running cabling up/out/around/or over ends up being easier than trying to fight to find inside paths.
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post #1209 of 1218 Old 05-17-2014, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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There is also ethernet cable that is flat meant to run under carpet. I have the feeling your house is older from your previous posts, but keep in mind in new-ish houses telephone lines were run using Cat5. I pulled up a run to an unneeded telephone jack into my attic as there was no other way I could think of to get to the main wiring closet on the first floor to the attic.

Just be creative smile.gif

Also - these little guys are great and depending on what you are doing may be of help:

http://www.amazon.com/D-Link-5-Port-Gigabit-Switch-DGS-105/dp/B000BC7QMM/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1400341450&sr=8-4&keywords=d-link+switch

You may need one of these too:
http://www.amazon.com/Electric-Fiberglass-Wire-Pull-Rods/dp/B005LW4CFG/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1400341573&sr=8-4&keywords=wire+fisher

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post #1210 of 1218 Old 05-17-2014, 12:23 PM
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Figured out that if I went out through the window sill behind my computer, down the side of the house, and in through one of the plywood panels that have replaced the basement windows, I would only need a 75 foot run of cable.

I took the still functioning upstairs FiOS box that's one end of the MOCA relay - and its power adapter - downstairs, since I would be using it in the basement, and - on a hunch - swapped its power adapter for the other, whereupon the "dead" FiOS box started blinking its status lights, locating the various things (Roku, Oppo, and cable to the laptop in the theater) plugged into its LAN jacks.

The LAN Coax light stayed off - after all, there was nothing attached to the other end of the coax link.

Took the other FiOS box back upstairs and determined that the power adapter from the downstairs unit wouldn't power it up. Checked the output plug with my Volt-Ohm-Milliammeter - it was putting out the required 5 volts, and pinning the Milliammeter (which tops out at 1/4 amp) but the adapter is rated at 3A so that wasn't definitive. I did notice that the pilot light on the power adapter dimmed noticeably when I tried to turn on the FiOS box.

Went across the street to "the toy store" (I live across from the Cambridge MicroCenter) and found a $30 RCA universal power supply, with various size tips that plug into the head of its cable with an interchangeable pair of pins. Used my meter to set it up with the correct polarity and plugged it into the upstairs FiOS box, which came to life.

It couldn't see the downstairs box, so I went back down to the theater, power-cycled the downstairs box, went to my laptop in the theater and found that it could see the upstairs master router and even the cable modem's router.

Went to Ookla's speedtest.net and found that the speed downstairs is now comparable to upstairs: over 60 Megabits per second.

Didn't even have to reset the Roku - it had no problem playing the beginning of Where No One Has Gone Before (ST:NG 1st season - "The Traveler") and a few minutes of WBGO-FM.

This is a great relief - the cabling project would not have been cheap. Just a 75 foot run of cable was over $50, and a pair of Linksys WRT310N gigabit b/g/n routers would have cost another $60.

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post #1211 of 1218 Old 06-02-2014, 02:30 PM
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A question about Amplifiers.  I only have cable coming to my house and am using an antenna (and netflix ;-) ) for my TV needs.  I'm considering two scenarios to connect the wiring in my house.

 

Scenario 1:

 

 

In this scenario, I just let my modem have a dedicated line to the internet, I have an Actiontec router connected to it via ethernet, and put to coax connections in the room.  One coax connection for my internal Coax network, and the other to be directly connected to the external world at large.

 

I put the moca filter after the Channel master because it does allow a passthru in the GHz range I think and don't want any moca signals going back over the antenna.  The reason I was looking at the 1 port amp opposed to an 8 port amp, is because my understanding of these devices is that the only thing getting amplified anyways is the incoming signal.  So if I already have an 8 port splitter in place, then I will not be preventing any loss on my MOCA network by replacing it with an 8 port amp (such as the Channel Master CM3418).  Is that correct?  If so then the end result is no matter which 8 port splitter or amp I go with my base level of loss between two moca devices prior to signal loss by cable length or additional splits (such as splitting it between a TV and another actiontec router) would be -22 db, right?  In theory, I suppose I could have two moca devices connected closer within the 8 port splitter resulting in a lower loss, but -22 is fairly realistic.

 

Or am I totally wrong about all of that and do all ports get the benefits of the amplifier?  If so I was thinking something more like this:

 

Scenario 2:

 

 

In this scenario I should have about a 2 db gain going from the internet source to my cable modem (the Channel master provides +4 gain on each port), and a 2 db gain going to the tuner (minus any losses caused by cable lengths and connections).  The only reason I would go for the second scenario is if it allowed for a better signal loss between two MOCA devices attached to the 8 port amp.  Or to keep from having to run a second coax cable to where the modem is connected

 

Thoughts?

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post #1212 of 1218 Old 06-03-2014, 06:01 AM
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Not sure I fully understand your diagrams, but just remember that the 8-port splitter built into the amp is most likely a three-level tree of 2-way splitters. Unless you're sure which pairs of jacks are "siblings" on the same final split, you're running the risk that the MOCA devices - which rely on leakage across a splitter - won't be able to hear each other.

That's why I've always recommended that they instead be put on a cheap 2-way splitter attached to one of the amplifier's outputs.

I recommend a cheap 2-way splitter because the expensive ones boast good isolation of the jacks from each other, which is precisely the opposite of what you want.

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post #1213 of 1218 Old 06-03-2014, 06:36 AM
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Not sure I fully understand your diagrams, but just remember that the 8-port splitter built into the amp is most likely a three-level tree of 2-way splitters. Unless you're sure which pairs of jacks are "siblings" on the same final split, you're running the risk that the MOCA devices - which rely on leakage across a splitter - won't be able to hear each other.
 

 

So my basic understanding that the amplifier would not assist the moca devices in any way is correct, right?  I mean working with the presumption that they can communicate across all the ports, they'll still have the ~22 db loss from port to port.  Amplifiers only amplify the input signal, and then have a 4 tiered 2 port splitter to give me 8 total ports.  I'd be better off, or at least equally off, putting a single port amp (with passive return in the 5-42 mhz range for the cable modem) in front of a known to work 8 port spitter as opposed to an 8 port amp which would be more expensive and possibly prevent communication across the various tiers.

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"Equally off" says it - unless you've been using the "known to work 8 port splitter" with your MOCA setup and use the same pair of jacks as always to connect to the diplexers hosting your MOCA devices.

Why not connect your single port amp's output to a two-way splitter, connect that splitter's outputs to two-way splitters, and buld just enough of a tree to support all of your devices, making sure that the connections to the locations with your MOCA devices come off the same cheap splitter?

This would also have the benefit of letting you make sure that the devices that would benefit most from a stronger signal can be connected earlier in the tree, closer to the input.

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Why not connect your single port amp's output to a two-way splitter, connect that splitter's outputs to two-way splitters, and buld just enough of a tree to support all of your devices, making sure that the connections to the locations with your MOCA devices come off the same cheap splitter?

This would also have the benefit of letting you make sure that the devices that would benefit most from a stronger signal can be connected earlier in the tree, closer to the input.

 

Laziness is the short answer to that question. :D

 

The larger answer is I was hoping to be able to move stuff around as needed and just leave everything connected.  But a 22 db loss is pretty significant and lowers the max theoretical speed down below 100 mbps I think.

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post #1216 of 1218 Old 08-17-2014, 05:51 PM
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help me

HI , Im newbe lol

I live in an old appartement building that used to be a school in quebec canada. A friend of mine living on the same floor at the end of the corridor and he already has internet through Cable . He suggested we share connection and split the bill wich is a very good idea.
wirelessdoent work well since walls are thick i read about powerline but it is uncertain it would work because each appartment has its own breaker...
EVEN though i dont have cable tv programs, there is a plug or a cable slot if i can sayin my living room probably installed before for someone who asked for cable tv installation.

1)SO Do you think I can share the connection through cable with my friend ?
2) is there a way I ca test it before investing money?

3) also there are 44 pages to this text , so its kidda long to read ...: are there any material OTHER than pair of Actiontec MI424WRs icould use. we are in 2014 maybe other material can do the trick . also I have seen existence of a model rev E and F. do they all work for what we want?

Thank a lot
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post #1217 of 1218 Old 08-18-2014, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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This is not legal, but that isn't really my business.

Most likely there are filters between your two apartments, so likely it will not work.

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post #1218 of 1218 Old Yesterday, 03:59 PM
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well i guess pretending to have a server is legal.

anyway i can take the risk

also are there any material OTHER than pair of Actiontec MI424WRs icould use. we are in 2014 maybe other material can do the trick . also I have seen existence of a model rev E and F. do they all work for what we want?
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