Where to buy CAT6 cable for in-wall use - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 26 Old 09-24-2009, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
dmichael's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I only need about 150 feet or so, but I can't find any CAT6 for in-wall use less than a 1000ft roll. I would buy 100' patch cables from monoprice, but those are not rated for in-wall.

Any suggestions?
dmichael is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 Old 09-24-2009, 01:19 PM
Member
 
Monoprice_01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91730
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
All the monoprice Cat6 cables are rated CM for general in-wall use. Almost all ethernet cables I've seen are rated at least CM.
Monoprice_01 is offline  
post #3 of 26 Old 09-24-2009, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
dmichael's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monoprice_01 View Post

All the monoprice Cat6 cables are rated CM for general in-wall use.

Really, even patch cables?

I seem to be getting the impression that almost all the shorter length patch cables out there are not CM rated, just the opposite of what you describe.

Well, if the patch cables are CM rated, then that solves my problem.
Thanks!
dmichael is offline  
post #4 of 26 Old 09-24-2009, 10:20 PM
Newbie
 
emjj760's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have bought Monoprice Cat 6 before but I felt cheated. Real Cat 6 Cable I believe is 550Mhz! If cat 5e is 350 Mhz how do they even get 400Mhz or 500Mhz Cat 6? I am curious how this happens. Are they just skimping on copper or is the copper quality not allowing them to push 550Mhz?
emjj760 is offline  
post #5 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 06:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
oktoberrust11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Posts: 3,057
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by emjj760 View Post

I have bought Monoprice Cat 6 before but I felt cheated. Real Cat 6 Cable I believe is 550Mhz! If cat 5e is 350 Mhz how do they even get 400Mhz or 500Mhz Cat 6? I am curious how this happens. Are they just skimping on copper or is the copper quality not allowing them to push 550Mhz?

The cat 6 standard is 250MHz. Anything above that is independently tested and swept by the manufacturer. Standard offerings by manufacturers for cat 6 cable are typically 250MHz, 400MHz, and 550MHz. Cat 5e standard is 100 MHz. Standard offerings for cat 5e cable are typically 200MHz and 350MHz.

The cat 6 cable I purchase from monoprice about 6 months back was actually rated to 550MHz.

The amount of twist in the copper pairs, the gauge of copper, and the shielding between pairs all contribute to different MHz ratings.

Xbox Live: oktober rust | Mii: 5207 2388 9861 4135 | Steam ID: detroit820 | Origin ID: oktoberrust11

oktoberrust11 is offline  
post #6 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
dmichael's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I ordered a bunch of different length patch cables from monoprice, all of them were rated 550mhz. All I really care about is the CM rating for in-wall use. A couple of my drops will be longer than 25 feet, so Cat6 seems to be recommended. Using Gigabit router and switches so may as well upgrade to Cat6. I had Cat5e. NOt really doing any remote downloading, just want to stream netflix in HD without any stuttering.
dmichael is offline  
post #7 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 07:49 AM
Senior Member
 
KingLeerUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 75
I wired my home with 1400 feet of Monoprice CAT6 UTP CMR rated earlier this year. The wire is a great value for the cost.

My only real quibble was that it was slightly more prone towards kinking when trying to "back out the slack" on certain runs. It wasn't anything that I could not deal with, but I had to be more aware of it than with other CAT6 wire varieties I've used in the past.

I'm happily running flawless Gigabit at home now, to 31 drops.



Also, Monoprice CAT6 patch cables are rated CMG, so long as you are using them in a single family dwelling, you can put them in a wall:

Rating: CM, CMG
Permitted Uses: In-wall rated; permitted in 1-2 family residential riser applications, or in riser with raceway/fireproof shaft (see above); not permitted in plenums.

KingLeerUK is offline  
post #8 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 11:30 AM
Member
 
Monoprice_01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91730
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
There may be non-CM rated cables out there. I haven't shopped for ethernet outside of Monoprice for a while so I forget. But all the Monoprice patch cables are CM rated.

oktoberrust11 is correct. The specs for CAT 6 is only up to 250Mhz and our CAT 6 patch cables are rated to 550Mhz. Our CAT5e cables are rated to 350Mhz.

emjj760, how specifically did you feel cheated?
Monoprice_01 is offline  
post #9 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 01:26 PM
Newbie
 
emjj760's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monoprice_01 View Post

There may be non-CM rated cables out there. I haven't shopped for ethernet outside of Monoprice for a while so I forget. But all the Monoprice patch cables are CM rated.

oktoberrust11 is correct. The specs for CAT 6 is only up to 250Mhz and our CAT 6 patch cables are rated to 550Mhz. Our CAT5e cables are rated to 350Mhz.

emjj760, how specifically did you feel cheated?

Well I take that back. I did not feel cheated. I did it to myself. I only use CMR Rated 550 Mhz Cat 6. Regardless if it is a residential or a commercial project. It is just what I buy. I just did not pay attention when I bought it. Because I never hear of 400Mhz or 500Mhz.

Don't take this negative because I am new to this forum. But is this forum owned by Monoprice. I just noticed your username was Monoprice and I see you running around the forum on all the threads pushing Monoprice, putting out fires, answering questions, and apologizing if they have issues with Monoprice products. I would like to think you can talk freely in a forum with out getting called out by an online store representative. I was just curious.
emjj760 is offline  
post #10 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 01:45 PM
Newbie
 
mconrady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by emjj760 View Post

I would like to think you can talk freely in a forum with out getting called out by an online store representative. I was just curious.

Good Point...
mconrady is offline  
post #11 of 26 Old 09-25-2009, 03:06 PM
Senior Member
 
fedders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
TIA/EIA specifies Cat 6 only 200 MHz, but the manufacturer must test out to 250 MHz at minimum. Cat 5e is 100 MHz as already stated. All the 550 or 600 printed on the cable is marketing hype.

To know the worth of the cable, look at the specifications for the PS-ACR number. The highest frequency at which the cable's rating is still positive will tell you how well engineered the cable is.

Another way is to look at the PS-ACR at one frequency - like 100 MHz or 200 MHz between various manufacturers to see which cable has the higher number. Also, the test numbers should be independently verified by ETL or UL. The readout from a Fluke tester is not acceptable for comparing brands.

Hope this bit of information helps clear things up for a few people...

Carl

Carl Fedders
fedders is offline  
post #12 of 26 Old 09-26-2009, 03:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
oktoberrust11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Posts: 3,057
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by fedders View Post

TIA/EIA specifies Cat 6 only 200 MHz, but the manufacturer must test out to 250 MHz at minimum.

I had no idea this was the case; 250MHz is all I've ever seen, including the BICSI TDMM and other publications. Any idea why they just didn't make the standard 250?

Xbox Live: oktober rust | Mii: 5207 2388 9861 4135 | Steam ID: detroit820 | Origin ID: oktoberrust11

oktoberrust11 is offline  
post #13 of 26 Old 09-27-2009, 06:36 AM
Senior Member
 
brettvdi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 251
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by emjj760 View Post

Don't take this negative because I am new to this forum. But is this forum owned by Monoprice. I just noticed your username was Monoprice and I see you running around the forum on all the threads pushing Monoprice, putting out fires, answering questions, and apologizing if they have issues with Monoprice products. I would like to think you can talk freely in a forum with out getting called out by an online store representative. I was just curious.

I think everyone can talk freely here. I also think each poster, be it individual or company, can defend themselves against bad information. Some companies go a little overboard pushing there products I must agree. However I think "putting out fires, answering questions, and apologizing" is just smart business. Just my 2cents.
brettvdi is offline  
post #14 of 26 Old 09-27-2009, 11:08 AM
Senior Member
 
fedders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by oktoberrust11 View Post

I had no idea this was the case; 250MHz is all I've ever seen, including the BICSI TDMM and other publications. Any idea why they just didn't make the standard 250?

Go back to the BICSI TDMM that you have and look again. All the BICSI materials are based off the TIA/EIA standard. The standard goes to 200 MHz, but testing must be performed up to 250 MHz.

Carl

Carl Fedders
fedders is offline  
post #15 of 26 Old 09-27-2009, 11:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Colm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 88
I appreciate the input of manufacturers and vendors who can keep it objective...
Colm is offline  
post #16 of 26 Old 09-27-2009, 12:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
oktoberrust11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Posts: 3,057
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by fedders View Post

Go back to the BICSI TDMM that you have and look again. All the BICSI materials are based off the TIA/EIA standard. The standard goes to 200 MHz, but testing must be performed up to 250 MHz.

Carl

I went back, but all I'm seeing is 250MHz. I'm not questioning you, as based on your posts it seems you know your stuff, but I've just never heard of this.

Xbox Live: oktober rust | Mii: 5207 2388 9861 4135 | Steam ID: detroit820 | Origin ID: oktoberrust11

oktoberrust11 is offline  
post #17 of 26 Old 09-27-2009, 04:13 PM
Senior Member
 
fedders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by sampsonLLC View Post

TIA 568 specification defines the minimum requirement. But most quality manufactures test and guarantee well beyond those levels.

This is absolutely true and some manufacturers make cables that have positive PS-ACR (Power Sum Attenuation to Crosstalk Ratio) well above 200 MHz or 250 MHz. Generally if a manufacturer makes several versions of a Cat 6 cable, the one with the higher MHz rating is the better cable. Between manufacturers, however, you should never look at the MHz rating printed on the cable. It is meaningless. Instead, look at the Independently Verified PS-ACR numbers to compare manufacturers.

I know everyone here loves monoprice (I frequently order from them as well), but I don't see anywhere where they list the full specifications of their cables nor do they say they are UL or ETL verified to be Cat 6. It would be great if they added this information so we could all see how well made their products are.

Also note that unless you are a corporate user with long lengths of wire and busy networks, I would not stress about purchasing anything other than minimal spec Cat 6 wire. It will do everything you want and will give you a full Gigabit network. Most homes don't have runs anywhere near the 295 feet (90 Meters) that pushes the limit of the Cat 6 cable.

I hope this helps!

Carl

Carl Fedders
fedders is offline  
post #18 of 26 Old 09-27-2009, 06:22 PM
Senior Member
 
fedders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by oktoberrust11 View Post

I went back, but all I'm seeing is 250MHz. I'm not questioning you, as based on your posts it seems you know your stuff, but I've just never heard of this.

I no longer work for a wire manufacturer and don't have access to the documents you have to buy. Again, you do have to TEST to 250 MHz, but the cable was designed for use (positive signal-to-noise ratio) up to 200 MHz. Take a look at these links:

http://comnews.com/WhitePaper_Librar...6_featured.pdf

http://www.siemon.com/cat6.asp

http://www.belden.com/pdfs/techpprs/...gory_6_Q&A.pdf

Hope this helps.

Carl

Carl Fedders
fedders is offline  
post #19 of 26 Old 09-28-2009, 04:06 PM
Newbie
 
mconrady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I don't think so. I think there will be to much Alien Crosstalk

I think the Wire Guy above may know better.
mconrady is offline  
post #20 of 26 Old 09-28-2009, 04:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
oktoberrust11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Posts: 3,057
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdloco View Post

Can you run 10gig on Cat 5e?

No

Xbox Live: oktober rust | Mii: 5207 2388 9861 4135 | Steam ID: detroit820 | Origin ID: oktoberrust11

oktoberrust11 is offline  
post #21 of 26 Old 12-19-2009, 01:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Noah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,452
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Any idea how I can determine whether a patch cable is CM/in-wall rated? I've got a couple 50 footers that I've never used. They're labeled:

SYSTEMS HSYU-550 UTP-5e COMMUNICATION CABLE M 2009

They stink to high heaven (just took them out of the bag, though), so I can't imagine they're plenum rated (non-toxic when burned).
Noah is offline  
post #22 of 26 Old 12-20-2009, 07:23 PM
Member
 
lorenkoeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
If a cable doesn't have the in wall rating on its jacket, I think you will have to assume it is not rated for in wall use. I think an inspector will anyway unless you can prove otherwise.

I see the OP was thinking of using patch cables since he didn't want to buy a 1000 ft box. One thing to realize though if you were thinking of cutting terminating the cable is that patch cable is usually stranded, while punch down connectors for terminating in wall wiring are designed for solid wire. Just something to watch out for.

Your best bet for smaller lengths of Cat6 might just be to find someone here who has a partial roll left over. Also check Craigslist for partial rolls. I know if you needed 5e I would for sure hook you up.
lorenkoeman is offline  
post #23 of 26 Old 12-22-2009, 02:50 PM
Senior Member
 
Adidas4275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Adidas4275 is offline  
post #24 of 26 Old 12-22-2009, 03:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
oktoberrust11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Posts: 3,057
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adidas4275 View Post

so does that mean this cable is not in wall rated?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...#specification

CMG is rated for General use. In-wall is fine, just not in plenum spaces.

Xbox Live: oktober rust | Mii: 5207 2388 9861 4135 | Steam ID: detroit820 | Origin ID: oktoberrust11

oktoberrust11 is offline  
post #25 of 26 Old 12-22-2009, 04:36 PM
Senior Member
 
Adidas4275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
got it, i googled CMG but apparently that is the stock symbol for Chipotle so i got a lot of info about burritos
Adidas4275 is offline  
post #26 of 26 Old 12-23-2009, 04:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
oktoberrust11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Posts: 3,057
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adidas4275 View Post

got it, i googled CMG but apparently that is the stock symbol for Chipotle so i got a lot of info about burritos

haha, nice. Try this, from BICSI's Residential Cabling manual:

http://books.google.com/books?id=EDS...age&q=&f=false

Xbox Live: oktober rust | Mii: 5207 2388 9861 4135 | Steam ID: detroit820 | Origin ID: oktoberrust11

oktoberrust11 is offline  
Reply Home A/V Distribution

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off