Looking for a 4 x 8 1080 P HD Base T matrix solution - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 11-17-2011, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi guys,

I am a frequent poster on AVS, but might need your help this time. I haven't done HD video distribution for some time, so I might be out of sync with newer solutions.

I am helping a friend with a whole house Audio/video ditribution. I have the audio portion planned. There will be 14 zones, 4 of which will be HD video zones. The sources will be 1 PVR, 1 HD cable box, 1 Blue ray player and 1 Media server. All Tvs will be the same brand and all will be 1080P (no 3D). I have planned to have 6 Cat 5e cables + 1 Cat 6 cable to each TV location.
Tvs would be 20, 35 50 and 60 ft from media closet.

I know that HD base T solutions exist, but are there HD Base T matrix switches out there? If yes, please provide a few links.

As we speak, I would be purchasing a 4 x 4 Matrix from Monoprice. http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...mat=4#feedback

Are there better solutions? even if they are more expensive? If yes, with what advantages?

One of the rooms will be a Home theater setup with In-walls (not my choice, but his spouse insists). He would like to have dipole sourround speakers. I personaly have not used any. Would you have any recommendations for In-wall dipoles?

Thanks in advance for the help...
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post #2 of 29 Old 11-17-2011, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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mistake i the title, I am realy looking for a 4 x 4 HD Base T matrix solution.
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post #3 of 29 Old 11-17-2011, 01:13 PM
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Atlona is the only folks I know of doing a HDBaseT matrix device so far. They started with an 8x8 and a larger one, IIRC. No 4x8 or 4x4 yet - good assumption they'll add them in the future, though.

http://www.atlona.com/Atlona-HDBaseT...CAT5e-6-7.html

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post #4 of 29 Old 11-17-2011, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Jeff. Those are still way up there in price. So I may stay with a 4 x 4 HDMI matrix from Monoprice. Do you know of better solutions for say under $700 or so?
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post #5 of 29 Old 11-17-2011, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck_fr View Post

Thanks Jeff. Those are still way up there in price. So I may stay with a 4 x 4 HDMI matrix from Monoprice. Do you know of better solutions for say under $700 or so?

I don't, but as you know I continue to avoid the HDMI matrix thing personally...


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post #6 of 29 Old 11-17-2011, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes I understand why you are avoiding them, but with 4 identical TVs and a 5.1 theater with a seperate coax link to the receiver, we should be ok.
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post #7 of 29 Old 11-18-2011, 07:25 AM
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HDMI Matrix solutions with proper EDID and HDCP handling is not inexpensive. I've been following these products since they started coming to market and basially a quality 8x8 HDMI matrix runs about $5,000 (MSRP)

But, for Cat Base HD switching, you are talking about a more specialty product at this point.

PureLink is one of the few companies that will do this. Do it right, and do it nearly flawlessly. And, it'll run about ten times what you are hoping to spend.

I've used the Monoprice stuff, and it is flakey at best. So bad that I went back to component video in my home setup.

PureLink offers a 8x8 matrix frame which takes separate cards. Cards include a HDMI/Cat input card and two output card slots are on the unit which can have any number of HDCP compliant cards put in, including Cat models.

The manual is here:
http://purelinkav.com/wp-content/upl...ser-Manual.pdf

The product is here:
http://purelinkav.com/products/cross...matrix-router/

If I had the budget and just wanted something to work, then this is the ONLY company that I would be looking at.

Since I don't have the budet, the Aurora Multimedia ASP-88 is very interesting to me...
http://www.auroramultimedia.com/?sec...roducts&id=136

It offers HDMI 1.4 switching capability and you can drop Cat-Base HD convertes onto the box. At only 1RU in height, it's one of the most svelt switchers out there for this much capacity, and is a reasonable price for a quality product.

They also offer a card based matrix called the DXM-88 which could have native cat cards on them...
http://www.auroramultimedia.com/?sec...roducts&id=213

While these are expensive, they do HDCP rekeying and proper EDID checking on all devices which is something that Monoprice definitely does not do on their matrix. Still, I've got the Monoprice matrix at home because it is far less money. It's also sitting on a shelf because I found it to be unusable.


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post #8 of 29 Old 11-21-2011, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

HDMI Matrix solutions with proper EDID and HDCP handling is not inexpensive. I've been following these products since they started coming to market and basially a quality 8x8 HDMI matrix runs about $5,000 (MSRP)

But, for Cat Base HD switching, you are talking about a more specialty product at this point.

PureLink is one of the few companies that will do this. Do it right, and do it nearly flawlessly. And, it'll run about ten times what you are hoping to spend.

I've used the Monoprice stuff, and it is flakey at best. So bad that I went back to component video in my home setup.

PureLink offers a 8x8 matrix frame which takes separate cards. Cards include a HDMI/Cat input card and two output card slots are on the unit which can have any number of HDCP compliant cards put in, including Cat models.

The manual is here:
http://purelinkav.com/wp-content/upl...ser-Manual.pdf

The product is here:
http://purelinkav.com/products/cross...matrix-router/

If I had the budget and just wanted something to work, then this is the ONLY company that I would be looking at.

Since I don't have the budet, the Aurora Multimedia ASP-88 is very interesting to me...
http://www.auroramultimedia.com/?sec...roducts&id=136

It offers HDMI 1.4 switching capability and you can drop Cat-Base HD convertes onto the box. At only 1RU in height, it's one of the most svelt switchers out there for this much capacity, and is a reasonable price for a quality product.

They also offer a card based matrix called the DXM-88 which could have native cat cards on them...
http://www.auroramultimedia.com/?sec...roducts&id=213

While these are expensive, they do HDCP rekeying and proper EDID checking on all devices which is something that Monoprice definitely does not do on their matrix. Still, I've got the Monoprice matrix at home because it is far less money. It's also sitting on a shelf because I found it to be unusable.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but are you confusing HDBaseT with "Cat Base HD"? Or did you just bring up HD over Cat5 matrices out of the blue?
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post #9 of 29 Old 11-26-2011, 08:16 AM
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What about a company like www.justaddpower.com ?
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post #10 of 29 Old 11-26-2011, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudstr View Post

What about a company like www.justaddpower.com ?

No HD audio support! I keep hearing, "someday"

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post #11 of 29 Old 12-05-2011, 12:20 PM
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Since you have already mentioned the monoprice 4x4 matrix switcher, are you aware of their new 4x4 HDMI matrix over Cat5/6?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

It goes in and out of stock, so if you want it, act fast. I just helped a friend install one of these and it has been working well. I realize that the cheaper monoprice HDMI switches have their limitations, but I think this thing is a monster deal at $280. It also handles all IR distribution flawlessly (a nice added bonus).
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post #12 of 29 Old 12-05-2011, 05:46 PM
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Monoprice also has an HDbaseT solution now too. Expensive but way cheaper than the competition.
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post #13 of 29 Old 12-05-2011, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Can you provide the link to the Monoprice HD Base T solution?

Anyone have experience with it?
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post #14 of 29 Old 12-05-2011, 09:12 PM
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The Monoprice offering so far is only a single link HDMI extender using HDBaseT. Really hoping we'll see them produce a matrix switch with it built in...

They have two models:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

Jeff


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post #15 of 29 Old 12-06-2011, 05:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Jeff,

I had seen those, I was hoping for a switch.... too bad.
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post #16 of 29 Old 12-06-2011, 07:35 AM
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Still, it would be cheaper to use a monoprice matrix and several of their HDBaseT units than getting an all in one from the competition (if such a device exists). You're still only using one Cat5e/Cat6 run per display and its very adaptable. If you don't need the ethernet part of HDBaseT, the cheaper monoprice unit is $172. Combine 4 of them with a 4x4 HDMI matrix and you should be all set.

Of course you could greatly simplify things and get this (4x4 Matrix HDMI Switch & Splitter over CAT5e/CAT6 Cable w/ Remote). The only problem is that it is not HDBaseT so may be less robust and uses 2 Cat5e runs per display.
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post #17 of 29 Old 12-22-2011, 01:23 PM
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Atlona High-Speed HDMI 4x4 Matrix Switcher (AT-PRO3HD44M)
The Atlona AT-PRO3HD44M 4x4 HDMI matrix switcher features HDBaseT technology, which allows for signal runs over 60 meters at 1080p.Taking advantage of the Power-over-Ethernet (PoE) abilities of HDBaseT technology, this switcher provides more options for low-voltage installations and lends itself perfectly to the integration of multi-room A/V systems in single-family homes.

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post #18 of 29 Old 12-23-2011, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AI Limited View Post

Atlona High-Speed HDMI 4x4 Matrix Switcher (AT-PRO3HD44M)
The Atlona AT-PRO3HD44M 4x4 HDMI matrix switcher features HDBaseT technology, which allows for signal runs over 60 meters at 1080p.Taking advantage of the Power-over-Ethernet (PoE) abilities of HDBaseT technology, this switcher provides more options for low-voltage installations and lends itself perfectly to the integration of multi-room A/V systems in single-family homes.

That's great news - looks like they'll be showing it at the end of January (but not at CES?) - any idea when it will be shipping? That should be of great interest to a lot of folks 'round these parts...

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post #19 of 29 Old 01-12-2012, 10:12 AM
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the product is indeed on display at CES.

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post #20 of 29 Old 01-12-2012, 11:20 AM
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the product is indeed on display at CES.

Any word on pricing / availability? The AT-PRO3HD44 (or the larger 8x8) would appear to be the answer for a lot of AVS'ers...

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post #21 of 29 Old 01-14-2013, 10:09 PM
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Intelix... What about these guys? They seem to have nice promising products but nobody talks about them. Like the DIGI-HD-4x8 or the DIGI-HD-8x8
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post #22 of 29 Old 01-15-2013, 09:49 AM
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I'm sure the OP's been waiting a year for your suggestion.
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post #23 of 29 Old 01-15-2013, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P805 View Post

Intelix... What about these guys? They seem to have nice promising products but nobody talks about them. Like the DIGI-HD-4x8 or the DIGI-HD-8x8

There are a lot of solutions for $3k like this Intelix. You could get the Atlona 4x4 with HDBaseT for less if you didn't need the 8 outputs in exchange for longer (and arguably more reliable) runs. Compared to the Monoprice 4x4 at $300 these are both overpriced. The monoprice unit has some issues (blanking and lack of dual band IR support) so ideally there would be a working solution in that price range soon.

IOGear came out with a 5x2 with the second output operating in wireless mode at $400.

They also came out with a rackmount 4x4 switcher meant for custom installers and the professional crowd. There is zero-delay switching without output blanking for this model. It can be controlled using the front panel, IR remote or RS-232 for professional applications. The AVIOR GHMS8044 is priced online around $700 (MSRP is $820). The problem with the rackmount piece for me is that it doesn't do HDMI across cat5/6.

Still nothing under $1k that does 4x4 across UTP and works I guess.

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post #24 of 29 Old 01-15-2013, 10:22 AM
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GefenPRO also has a new 4x4 and 8x8 product out.

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/gef-hdfst-444-4elr.jsp?prod_id=11384

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post #25 of 29 Old 01-15-2013, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cshepard View Post

I'm sure the OP's been waiting a year for your suggestion.

The OP is not the only person looking for a reasonably priced HDBaseT solution. Personally 2 in and 8 out is what I want. 4X4, too many in too few out.8X8, way too many in, don't need 8 but need more than four. Don't want to pay for 8 in.

Always exited when this thread gets activity. Then disappointed there's still nothing reasonably priced. The wait and search for a solution continues...

Maybe the Monoprice units with HDMI matrix up front as suggested. Getting tired of waiting,

Seems to be very little movement in this technology.
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post #26 of 29 Old 02-25-2013, 10:33 AM
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I just ordered the AT-PRO3HD44M with the PRO3HDREC Extenders. I run control4 and have had the Monoprice 4x4 HDMI Matrix switch for a few years. For the price it worked outstanding but as the TV's and devices got newer it does show its weakness with the EDID and HDCP handling.

I am at the point in my life that I am really don't have the energy as I once did to spend time with my equipment.

I did have some other HDMI cable issues (Some brought on myself ) to make the change to a more stable and reliable solution.
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post #27 of 29 Old 02-25-2013, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stick30 View Post

I just ordered the AT-PRO3HD44M with the PRO3HDREC Extenders. I run control4 and have had the Monoprice 4x4 HDMI Matrix switch for a few years. For the price it worked outstanding but as the TV's and devices got newer it does show its weakness with the EDID and HDCP handling.

I am at the point in my life that I am really don't have the energy as I once did to spend time with my equipment.

I did have some other HDMI cable issues (Some brought on myself ) to make the change to a more stable and reliable solution.

$3k?

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post #28 of 29 Old 02-25-2013, 05:01 PM
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Greetings All. First time poster attempting to share...


I installed an AT-PRO3HD44M and PRO3HDREC setup about three weeks ago.

It is a simple setup, with a UVerse STB, BDT210, Playstation, and surveillance DVR as sources, and three TV's with similar capabilities as sinks. The sources and matrix are located in an equipment closet. Each sink is located in a separate room, some distance away from the equipment closet. One of the matrix's HDBaseT outputs actually connects to a YSP-3300 which then connects to the local TV's HDMI input.

Each HDMI extender connects to a keystone jack in the wall near the TV via solid CAT6a patch cable. Solid CAT5e runs from the keystone jack through the walls/attic back to the equipment closet. Wire run lengths to the three TV's are about 90, 120, and 170 ft. I know that the CAT5e and keystone jacks are not optimal, but that's how things were pre-wired.

This configuration was giving me fits with Monoprice equipment. Very frequent video/audio signal drop outs at the TV's, frozen video, audio drop outs, video sparkles, Even when the in-wall/attic wiring was replaced with single lengths of CAT6a temporarily laid out in the halls, there were still instances of video/audio drop outs and downgrading of video resolution from 1080p to 720p. When the switching stopped working, the only remedy was to reset the various components; I hate that..

On the other hand, the Atlona matrix and HDBaseT extenders just seem to work. The sources don't know if they are driving one, two, or three displays. UVerse doesn't care if it gets switched to different sinks; no power cycling of the STB, no need to perpetually press the "OK" button on the remote. Blu-ray plays at 1080p/24 over the combined CAT5e home run and CAT6a patch cable without sparkles or drop outs or resolution downgrading. The IR from the receiver at the TV back to the equipment room (over HDbaseT) has no noticeable delay or latency. Only one length of CAT cable is required per extender (as opposed to two for non-HDBaseT solutions); in addition to IR, that same CAT cable powers the extender at the TV. As pricey as it is, this solution seems to have the critical mass of features/capabilities that some of us have been seeking for a long time. I'd like to have IP control of the matrix now, the manual says that will be provided in a future firmwal update.

One caveat; this setup has not been tested yet with 3D content.

Hope this helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stick30 View Post

I just ordered the AT-PRO3HD44M with the PRO3HDREC Extenders. I run control4 and have had the Monoprice 4x4 HDMI Matrix switch for a few years. For the price it worked outstanding but as the TV's and devices got newer it does show its weakness with the EDID and HDCP handling.

I am at the point in my life that I am really don't have the energy as I once did to spend time with my equipment.

I did have some other HDMI cable issues (Some brought on myself ) to make the change to a more stable and reliable solution.
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post #29 of 29 Old 09-09-2013, 07:38 AM
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Tomandjudy, stick30, others

After a few months of usage, what has been your experience? Are these units now largely flawless or still liable to drops, and problems? I am also interested in an 8x4 or 8x8 matrix solution over cat5 cables. But reliability and simplicity of use trumps everything else. Happy to spend up to 5k or so for a product with the least problems.
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