Volume low for zone 2 speakers around the house. - AVS Forum
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Old 02-23-2012, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Need helping configuring home ceiling/wall speakers (zone 2 - 10 rooms with total of 20 speakers) around the house with current receiver, which is in the main living room. Each set of speakers have volume control (in wall). Problem is the sound is very low; even on the highest it is not loud, as it should be. what is the problem (the main room speakers connected to 5308ci work fine, problem is the the speaker connected to the MS10 speaker selector which is connected to AMP assign 2 - zone 2 on the Denon 5308ci are at low volume). Looks like i need a sperate amp, correct?; if that is the case...any recommendations on which amp to get...? this is the first time making the connections?

Have the following setup:
Denon 5308ci receiver:
Main Room 7.1 Surround Setup connected to 5308CI (works fine)
MS10 Audioplex MS-10 10 Pair Load Balancing Speaker Selector - for all ceiling speakers around the house
10 rooms (20 speakers) ceiling/wall speakers around the house connected to the MS10 Speaker Selector.
AMP Assign 2 speakers connections connected to MS10 Speaker Selector.
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:05 PM
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Well, you're dividing the power of the amplifier to 10 pairs of speakers... You should be able to tell a difference when you turn off most of the pairs at the speaker selector (not the volume controls, assuming you have them in the zones).

Can't recommend a speaker selector for that many zones. Don't know how much sound you want out of each zone, but even a 200W/ch amp is going to be split down to effectively 20W/ch... A multi-channel amp or whole-house-audio system would be a much better path.

Is this gear brand new?

Jeff

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Old 02-23-2012, 10:08 PM - Thread Starter
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ok..so have 10 rooms with ceiling/outdoor and in wall speakers (total 20 speakers - mainly klipsch speakers ).
- have a denon 5308ci receiver in the main room which is connected to main room 7.1 speaker setup, which is fine.
- have a Audio Plex MS10 Audio Speaker selector next to the denon 5308ci receiver where all the 20 speakers wires are at.
-connected Audio Plex MS10 to Denon 5308ci to Amp Assign/zone 2 speaker output.
- connected all 20 speakers wires (10 rooms) to Audio Plex MS10 speaker selector.
-made the correct changes to the receiver to enable zone 2.
- So, Problem is very low sound on all 20 speakers. And I am assuming i don't have AMP between the speaker selector MS10 and the denon receiver, correct?.
- Which AMP do i need or should get for this setup or What is the best solution?
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:24 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the response..yes, all is almost all brand new; just haven't been used for about year or so...;finally and slowly setting everything up.
So, multi channel amp would be one best options?
Assuming i get that, i will no longer need the speaker selector, correct? But I will need a multi-channel amp that can support 10 pair of speakers, correct?
I will connect the multi channel amp to my current denon receiver and all the 10 pair of speaker wires to the multi channel amp? And if this is all correct, i surely could use a recommendations on which multi channel amp will work for this setup, have no clue where to start? thanks allot...Mac
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:06 AM
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Take a look at HTD.com for some multichannel amps. The issue is going to be controlling the volume of each zone, and selecting sources. What are you expecting to use for sources in the zones, and do you want the ability to play different sources in different rooms? If so, you'll need to look at a whole house audio system instead (HTD, also NuVo, for example).

If you get enough amp channels you don't need the speaker selector, and you'll have a lot more flexibility in using the system. Do you have volume controls in the rooms? Is there keypad wiring (cat5e) as well?


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Old 02-24-2012, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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- There are volume controls in each of the rooms (which is good, taking care of the controls from the room).
- The source will probably be Apple TV (streaming from NAS) connected to main Denon receiver via hdmi and maybe a cd player (mainly music).
- Nope, no need to have different sources playing in different rooms; trying to keep it simple in that aspect (so really don't need too advance of a control unit).
- each room already does has intercom and cat5e cable connections.
-looked at the 2 models by HTD, both 12 channels.
-for hooking up 10 pair of speakers will i need to use connecting block or something and how many channels for amp?
So, basically i guess what need is a simple multi-amp unit that can support 10 pair of speakers; with ample power; while using the volume controls in the room for control; with single source playing for all the same; controlled by the single source.
And get rid of the AudioPlex ms10 speaker selector....correct (but will the new amp support 10 pair of speakers)?
And, i am thinking i really don't need the HTD or the NuVO for this setup...correct? if so, which other amp to look at and how many channels to void using the speaker selector...hopefully little cheaper than HTD..) thanks....Mac
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildzx View Post

- Nope, no need to have different sources playing in different rooms; trying to keep it simple in that aspect (so really don't need too advance of a control unit).

IMO, keeping it "simple" in that regard makes the system less usable. If you've got 10 rooms wired and speakers installed, you'll be under-utilizing the setup because it's more "limited" than simple...

Quote:


- each room already does has intercom and cat5e cable connections.

Great! Are those cat5e/intercom cables at a switch-height location or nearby? That would set you up for using any of the whole house audio systems now or in the future.

Quote:


-looked at the 2 models by HTD, both 12 channels.
-for hooking up 10 pair of speakers will i need to use connecting block or something and how many channels for amp?

You can tie two rooms to one amp pair, if the impedance of the speakers and the amp will allow it. Are they 8 ohm speakers? Two pairs in parallel would give the amp a 4 ohm load (check the amp specs to see if it can handle that).

Quote:


And, i am thinking i really don't need the HTD or the NuVO for this setup...correct?

Need is a strong word, but I think you'll get significantly more use out of the system if you have in-room controls and source/volume independence...

Quote:


...hopefully little cheaper than HTD..)

Uh, yeah, that's not going to happen...

IMO you'd get more bang for your buck if you sold that super-high-end receiver and traded it for a whole house audio system and an above-average A/V receiver...

Jeff

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Old 02-24-2012, 11:47 AM
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Dido everything Jeff has pointed to.

If you want to save about 300$ you can use a Dayton 12 channel amplifier. It is slightly less powerful, and the speaker connectors are cheaper but otherwaise it is a very good amplifier.
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:53 AM
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What is the zone 2 volume set at in the receiver? This can be changed in the Denon receivers.
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:05 PM
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in your recever menu, go to (manual setup), go to (zone setup), go to (zone 2 setup), scroll down to (vol. level) then set to 0dB by using the right arrow button on the remote.

see if that helps.
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildzx View Post

- The source will probably be Apple TV (streaming from NAS) connected to main Denon receiver via hdmi and maybe a cd player (mainly music).

You will not be able to use a HDMI source for any zone 2 output. The 5308 may support 2 channel PCM but no HDMI sources will be usable.
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adk highlander View Post

You will not be able to use a HDMI source for any zone 2 output. The 5308 may support 2 channel PCM but no HDMI sources will be usable.

Good catch - yeah most (almost all?) receivers don't have D/A support for their zone 2 outputs. All sources need to have analog audio in parallel to be used in the zones...

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Old 02-24-2012, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adk highlander View Post

You will not be able to use a HDMI source for any zone 2 output. The 5308 may support 2 channel PCM but no HDMI sources will be usable.

Correct, you will need a D/A converter to input an analog signal to the receiver for zone 2 to work with an Apple TV2, unless you have the original Apple TV.

These Gefens are popular:
http://www.amazon.com/Gefen-GTV-DD-2...0117528&sr=8-1
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
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First, thanks for all the input.
Just for fyi, this setup is at my folks property and my residence, where i can barely fit 2 speakers, is at distance; so i am not able to readily able to test any advice and recommendations... but still this is my priority; so trying to figure this out within next day or so and buy whatever needed....i will there all day tomorrow and whenever needed

- I was using HD DVD player with optical output to the Denon Receiver to test this setup (have not tested with Apple TV2 - yes, it is be big problem if hdmi does not support zone 2; i will try different connections, as well)
- I believe most of the speakers are 8 ohm.
- And I am still totally confused on how to tie two rooms to one amp pair... if i get a 12 channel amp (ex. Dayton amplifier which canuck_fr recommended), how will i wire 10 pair of speakers...sorry, can you explain this little more...
- cat5e connections are not switch height but much lower.
- i don't think there is volume setting for zone 2 in the menu, i checked the options yesterday; it only has bass and treble but will check again..
- now, our main concern is the main room for movies and music so don't want to sacrifice too much sound quality in the main room over the idea and connivence of being too much automated in every room but nevertheless i still like to entertain the idea of whole new system and see where it leads....;
ok..so the idea of selling my super-hight-end receiver and buying home audio system plus A/V receiver ..what kind of number and equip am i looking at...and will i sacrifice any sound in the main room (my current denon..i guessing is probably around 3k or so.. how much more $ for nice system for my requirements)...I don't mind choosing this options if it does good job at complete home theater/music setup and multi zone setup while providing best bang for the buck...
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Old 02-24-2012, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildzx View Post

I was using HD DVD player with optical output to the Denon Receiver to test this setup (have not tested with Apple TV2 - yes, it is be big problem if hdmi does not support zone 2; i will try different connections, as well)

The receiver can accept a digital signal and output it to zone 2, so connecting the Apple TV 2 optical to the reciver will work without a D/A converter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildzx View Post

And I am still totally confused on how to tie two rooms to one amp pair... if i get a 12 channel amp (ex. Dayton amplifier which canuck_fr recommended), how will i wire 10 pair of speakers...sorry, can you explain this little more...

Why do want to do this? You do not need to get a new amp when you have 150 watts at your disposal? The receiver is fine. You're just spending money on something that you will never be able to tell the difference on. You would also need to get 2 amplifiers to power your 10 zones properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildzx View Post

- i don't think there is volume setting for zone 2 in the menu, i checked the options yesterday; it only has bass and treble but will check again..

It is there, check the manual if you don't believe me but I would bet on me being correct. I believe that this is the reason why you have low volume on zone 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildzx View Post

- now, our main concern is the main room for movies and music so don't want to sacrifice too much sound quality in the main room over the idea and connivence of being too much automated in every room but nevertheless i still like to entertain the idea of whole new system and see where it leads....;
ok..so the idea of selling my super-hight-end receiver and buying home audio system plus A/V receiver ..what kind of number and equip am i looking at...and will i sacrifice any sound in the main room (my current denon..i guessing is probably around 3k or so.. how much more $ for nice system for my requirements)...I don't mind choosing this options if it does good job at complete home theater/music setup and multi zone setup while providing best bang for the buck...

Ok, now, do you have cat5e and speaker wire run to the volume controls? If not, abandon the idea of using multi-zone music system as the labor would offset the affordability of the HTD systems, of which you will need 2 systems for all 10 zones to work in your house.
If you really want a multi-zone system, then you want to look at the Nexus Audio C-816 Phantom Multi-Zone Controller http://www.nexusaudiosystems.com/c816phantom.html which adds full functionality just from the speaker wire without the need for cat5. Again, you will need 2 controllers to power 10 zones of audio.
If you just want music everywhere, and don't need different music in different rooms, then using the receiver for zone 2 will be fine, and you don't need a multi channel amp to power the house speakers.
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, some good news..was able to get all the 8 of out 10 pair of speakers booming loud( the other 2 pair are outdoor...power washing so they were un-mounted).
Volume control in the zone 2 options for some reason does not show up; even after fiddling with the AMP assign option setup, don't know what i was doing wrong...the only level for L and R shows up, so i set that at +2.
For the zone 2 volume control i had to use the main volume control...first i had to click the "Zone2/3/4 REC Select button" and than turn up the volume knob...i moved it to -13...and it works great...I didn't have too much time to test everything out..but i'll updated on how everything turns out...
thanks Mac
(oh and i'm sure once i start using the zone 2 remote it will be easier...it didn't have any aaa batteries...i keep forgetting take them....)Oh, and having zone 2 playing music have any effect on the sound performance in the main room?

Again, thank you all
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildzx View Post

(oh and i'm sure once i start using the zone 2 remote it will be easier...it didn't have any aaa batteries...i keep forgetting take them....)Oh, and having zone 2 playing music have any effect on the sound performance in the main room?

Again, thank you all

Get yourself some that can program a proper remote for you and then you won't have to deal with different remotes etc. And no it won't.
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