Whole house audio...zone 2 possible? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 07-01-2012, 09:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi all,

First of all thanks for all the great advice and help on this forum.

Secondly, its been awhile since high school physics so before I spend hours scouring the internet and drawing (then crossing out and redrawing) diagrams, I thought I would inquire here as to any shortcuts or help/advice the pros here might have. I have an Onkyo txnr 709 receiver and the specs can be seen here: http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=TX-NR709&class=Receiver&p=s

I am planning on using the zone one to play a 5.1 or 7.1 in my theater room. Also, it has a powered zone 2 that I intend to use to power my multi-room audio. I have the following speakers I intend to run throughout my house:

8 energy rc micros (4 pairs to 4 different rooms) Impedance: 8 ohm compatible, recommended amp power 20-100 watts continuous
4 Yamaha Ns-aw 190 (2 pairs, both outdoor) Impedance: 6 ohm, Nominal input 35 W, Maximum input 120 W

Questions:

1) Is it possible to wire all of these speakers to the zone 2 of my receiver?
2) Is there an easy way to figure out the wiring so as to supply adequate wattage and resistance?
3) Is there a way to wire it so that I may play only some of the speakers at a time (in other words attach to a switch so as to play certain rooms as desired, or only the outside speakers at some point and not at others)
4) If, after it is hooked up, some speakers play too loudly relative to the others on the same zone, how does one account for this so that all are at an appropriate volume...in other words, if I wanted my outdoor speakers louder than my indoor but want them playing at the same time, is there any way of doing this?

Thanks so much for all suggestions/help/input!!!
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post #2 of 14 Old 07-01-2012, 10:47 PM
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Yes, it is, although with 6 pairs total, you're really taxing the zone2 output (not enough power once you divide it among 6 zones). But you can try it, and upgrade to an external amp or a Whole House Audio system (multiroom amp and control system) later.

To hook up all those speakers, you need an impedance-matching device, and as you suggest, something to adjust volume and select zones on/off.

The big question is - do you have the wires run already?

Regardless, take a look at the Aton DLA6 - coupled with the RF remote kit, is a good way to deal with all of this in one nice box. If you are going to pull wires anyway, wire cat5e/cat6 for keypads in each room - the Aton box supports them, and any good WHA system will happily use them in the future!

http://www.atonhome.com/DLA6Room.html

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post #3 of 14 Old 07-02-2012, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

Yes, it is, although with 6 pairs total, you're really taxing the zone2 output (not enough power once you divide it among 6 zones). But you can try it, and upgrade to an external amp or a Whole House Audio system (multiroom amp and control system) later.
To hook up all those speakers, you need an impedance-matching device, and as you suggest, something to adjust volume and select zones on/off.
The big question is - do you have the wires run already?
Regardless, take a look at the Aton DLA6 - coupled with the RF remote kit, is a good way to deal with all of this in one nice box. If you are going to pull wires anyway, wire cat5e/cat6 for keypads in each room - the Aton box supports them, and any good WHA system will happily use them in the future!
http://www.atonhome.com/DLA6Room.html
Jeff

Solid advice.. the Aton piece is really the best chance you have at not blowing up your zone 2 output
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post #4 of 14 Old 04-20-2013, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies. I know this is reviving an old topic but I am finally moved into my new house and other projects unfortunately took priority (for some reason my wife thought we needed a kitchen and bathroom before whole home audio...)

Anyway, the suggested Aton product looks very nice. I was wondering, though, in the interim, what would be the disadvantage of buying a cheap speaker selector with a built in protector?

I was looking on ebay for some used and was tempted by a Niles SPS 6 which are around 20-30 bucks after shipping.

Otherwise I think monoprice sells one for about 20 bucks: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10903&cs_id=1090305&p_id=8229&seq=1&format=4#feedback

I realize i would still be unable to adjust the volume between the speakers but I thought I might save the ~$380 and give it a try first as I am using the same speakers in each room and the rooms are roughly the same size.

Any thoughts on this? Thanks!!
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post #5 of 14 Old 04-20-2013, 01:19 PM
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Most people would use an impedance matching speaker selector box, plus in-wall volume controls. The VCs are located in the zones, and control volume and on/off.

Cutting into drywall is fun. Are the speaker cables run?

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post #6 of 14 Old 04-20-2013, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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They are not run yet, I have a rough idea for running them but still need to finalize my plans and equipment as I've never done this and have 0 expertise in the area (I just like having music on).

My receiver is in my basement with my projector and movie surround (those wires are run). I was thinking of pulling a speaker wire from my zone 2 through the wall to a closet upstairs and hooking it up to my speaker selector. Then I would run speaker wires from that closet to the attic and just drop them in the ceiling corners of the various rooms I will mount my speakers in. That way I can toggle rooms on and off from the upstairs closet and it also saves a little bit of speaker wire and hassle running it as I only have to pull one wire up from the basement.
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post #7 of 14 Old 04-20-2013, 04:50 PM
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I would go through the extra trouble and expense to install in-wall volume controls.

I don't know anything about the speakers you have, but in-ceiling speakers are easier to retrofit with attic above.

Do more research/reading before buying anything.

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post #8 of 14 Old 04-20-2013, 05:26 PM
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If you're pulling all that wire, you should go ahead and home-run all of the speakers - especially if you'll be using any selector with remote control. And +1 on the volume controls, and while you're there, home run a cat5e, too, and you'll be set for whatever system you might want to expand to in the future. Pulling 4 wires to the same location is only slightly more effort than pulling one.

Jeff


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post #9 of 14 Old 04-20-2013, 06:22 PM
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I agree, pull a category cable to the VC location, for future use. Just leave it behind the VC LV wall plate, with a couple feet of slack.

You're trying to get away with the minimum amount t of work, I understand, but you should put in a little more effort and coin to 'futureproof'. You'll be all set for the next upgrade, in 5-10 years.

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post #10 of 14 Old 04-21-2013, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Love the advice, thanks again guys. Just to clarify, when you say home run all of the wires I'm assuming you mean run them all from the basement to the speaker selector instead of one? If so, I am curious if/how you would hook these up. The speaker selector upstairs is to make it more accessible, but I am unsure what more wires from the basement to the speaker selector would do or if/how I would use them. Also, thanks for the heads up on the cat5. What exactly would this be used for in the future?

(BTW, Im in the odd situation of knowing I will live here for 5 years, but knowing I will almost certainly move after that, which is why I balance making it awesome and future proof, with what I want to use it for now)
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post #11 of 14 Old 04-21-2013, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12loser12 View Post

Love the advice, thanks again guys. Just to clarify, when you say home run all of the wires I'm assuming you mean run them all from the basement to the speaker selector instead of one? If so, I am curious if/how you would hook these up.

You wouldn't use them now. But if you upgrade later to a true multi-zone setup, you almost certainly would.
Quote:
Also, thanks for the heads up on the cat5. What exactly would this be used for in the future?

Keypad for zone control that would replace any in-wall volume control.
Quote:
(BTW, Im in the odd situation of knowing I will live here for 5 years, but knowing I will almost certainly move after that, which is why I balance making it awesome and future proof, with what I want to use it for now)

Average American moves every 7 years, so you're really not that far off of "normal" - five years is certainly enough time to want an upgrade... smile.gif

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post #12 of 14 Old 04-21-2013, 05:07 PM
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It will be $120 plus labor to run cat6 to your VC locations.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10234&cs_id=1023401&p_id=8106&seq=1&format=2

You could use the extra cat cable to expand your hardwired LAN (TV locations, BRs, office, WAP locations, alarm controller, front door, others) to make it a selling point, when it's time to move. ''Fully wired with cat6."

Your AVR, with VCs, and in-wall/on-wall/in-ceiling speakers, will probably last you 5 years, but mine lasted for 2. But I'll be here for another 20, though.

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post #13 of 14 Old 04-22-2013, 05:00 PM
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Glad i found this post... I have this same question. Regarding the advice given to have an impedence matching device and volume controls, is the impedence device really necessary if all speakers have the same ohms rating? Ie can this be eliminated and just have volume controls without damaging equipment or making sound quality suffer unduly?
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post #14 of 14 Old 04-22-2013, 05:42 PM
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Most VCs made in recent years offer impedance matching, so an impedance matching speaker box is usually unnecessary.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha

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