Power Conditioners - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 11 Old 08-20-2012, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Brutux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi,

I'm a bit confused about purchasing a power conditioner and hope that people with more knowledge will help.

I'm trying to decide between the following devices: Acoustic Research PW1000, Belkin PureAV PF60, BrickWall PW8R15AUD, Monster HTS5100 MKII, and Panamax M4300-PM. It's going to go in the A/V rack in my living room and be connected to a stereo & TV music system with TV, receiver, Blue-Ray player, and perhaps a media streamer (Apple TV) or some legacy equipment (e.g., cassette deck).

Here's how I'm thinking about this:
  1. These items are available on the Internet at prices ranging between $200 and $300. If I just wanted surge protection, I'd get a good TrippLite or APC surge protector at a price closer to $100. The value added for the devices I'm considering is that they condition the power, thereby improving sound and picture.
  2. There are no standards for measuring power conditioning, and there are precious few professional reviews for conditioners in this price range. (I found several reviews of conditions priced over $3,000). So how should one decide between the choices?
  3. Some manufacturers, like Panamax, say their warranty is no good unless the unit is purchased from an "authorized dealer." I looked at the web sites of the authorized Internet dealers, and they're all charging full price. The least expensive price I found on the Internet for the Panamax M4300-PM is $197.46, but all the authorized dealers are charging $340. This makes the Panamax about $140 more expensive than the other competitors. (But I haven't looked into them to see if they also have an "authorized dealer" condition on their warranties.) I'm viewing the extra $143 tacked onto the lowest Internet price as if it were the price of an "extended warranty." Is having the manufacturer's warranty worth such a huge markup? Is there any way to buy Panamax equipment from authorized dealers at a discount? What about the other vendors?
  4. The Acoustic Research unit has a network hub -- something I could really use. But I've not seen any reviews of the unit. Has anyone out there had experience with it?
  5. In light of my list, which conditioner would you recommend?

Thanks.
Brutux is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 Old 08-25-2012, 08:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
SAM64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,568
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 69
Quote:
they condition the power, thereby improving sound and picture.

They don't improve picture or sound quality, they won't make better toast or a better vacuum either.
Quote:
There are no standards for measuring power conditioning,

There are many well respected standards for measuring the parameters of a power supply.

There is no agreed upon definition of "power conditioner"....what could a power conditioner possibly do to the incoming sine wave to make it 'better'?
Quote:
The Acoustic Research unit has a network hub

A hub? Does anyone actually use hubs these days when a switch is cheaper?
Quote:
which conditioner would you recommend?

The only 'conditioner' I've ever seen, that wasn't just a bunch of low quality L/C Pi filters, was a motor driven variac, voltage stabilizer, feeding two 25KV, 4Amp DC supplies for a TV transmitter....You don't want that in your home though.
SAM64 is online now  
post #3 of 11 Old 08-25-2012, 03:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Colm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Hard to beat a motor generator set with a big flywheel. Of course, you probably don't want that in your living room, either.
Colm is offline  
post #4 of 11 Old 04-01-2013, 01:25 PM
Advanced Member
 
yelnatsch517's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 980
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I wasn't sure if I should start a new thread or post in this one, but I'll give this thread a shot first.
I'm usually in the Audio section of AVS.

Has anyone ever done simple power quality analysis with and without power conditioners just to measure differences?
Something simple like this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o-uhDJvr0Q
yelnatsch517 is offline  
post #5 of 11 Old 04-01-2013, 05:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Colm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Why bother? It is well understood that the filters in power conditioners will reduce noise on the AC line and how they do it. The only relevant question is whether it makes any difference in the performance of the gear attached to it.
Colm is offline  
post #6 of 11 Old 04-02-2013, 11:53 PM
Advanced Member
 
yelnatsch517's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 980
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm View Post

Why bother? It is well understood that the filters in power conditioners will reduce noise on the AC line and how they do it. The only relevant question is whether it makes any difference in the performance of the gear attached to it.

I didn't realize that most power conditioners worked as advertised in reducing AC noise. If they all work similarly, they should all be priced similarly as well.
Improvement in performance I don't care about. It is the longevity of the electronic components that interest me.
I only bring this up because I believe I have some power issues at my house that I'll need to investigate.
yelnatsch517 is offline  
post #7 of 11 Old 04-03-2013, 12:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Colm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post

If they all work similarly, they should all be priced similarly as well.
Doesn't follow. House branded corned beef hash at one local super market chain is 15% more expensive than at another chain, and it is the exact same product from the same factory. Just the labels are different.

BTW I didn't say they all worked similarly. I just said they work and there is no mystery how they work. IOW if someone with a modicum of electronic knowledge were to look at a schematic of the product they could tell you how much noise reduction to expect at a given frequency. How much noise reduction a filter will yield at a given frequency is a function of the design. Some manufacturers will give you specifications like "-x dB at y MHz". Others just use meaningless terms like "digital" or "high current".

As far as compensating for any power issues at your house, don't hold your breath. CE gear can tolerate wide fluctuations in supply voltage and noise with no noticeable degradation in performance.

What kind of issues are you experiencing?
Colm is offline  
post #8 of 11 Old 04-03-2013, 10:50 AM
Just add water and stir
 
zuluwalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,620
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 461
Anyone notice how the guy who originally posted this, never replied? He had two posts. Then the big kids in the sandbox started throwing their toys around. I wonder if he found his answer?
zuluwalker is offline  
post #9 of 11 Old 04-03-2013, 11:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Colm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Having a bad day and need someone to kick?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuluwalker View Post

Anyone notice how the guy who originally posted this, never replied?
Yeah, so what? It happens.
Quote:
Then the big kids in the sandbox started throwing their toys around.
Nonsense. SAM64 gave an appropriate response, and I gave an additional example of a power conditioner that works.
Quote:
I wonder if he found his answer?
He did if he read SAM64's response. If he was looking for confirmation of his erroneous beliefs, I guess he didn't.

Did you even notice that you took an active thread off-topic with your name calling? You obviously don't care.
Colm is offline  
post #10 of 11 Old 04-03-2013, 12:45 PM
Just add water and stir
 
zuluwalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,620
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm View Post

Having a bad day and need someone to kick?

My apologies if you took that too personally.

Yeah, so what? It happens.

You're right, people do not always respond back to their original post after other take the time to answer it.

Nonsense. SAM64 gave an appropriate response, and I gave an additional example of a power conditioner that works.
He did if he read SAM64's response. If he was looking for confirmation of his erroneous beliefs, I guess he didn't.

Erroneous indeed. I don't know what he was thinking. I am sure he is on the right path now.

Did you even notice that you took an active thread off-topic with your name calling? You obviously don't care.

I should never have compared you to children in a sandbox. No, I really don't care. Please continue. I won't interrupt again.
zuluwalker is offline  
post #11 of 11 Old 04-04-2013, 11:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Glimmie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7,810
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutux View Post

Hi,

I'm a bit confused about purchasing a power conditioner and hope that people with more knowledge will help.

I'm trying to decide between the following devices: Acoustic Research PW1000, Belkin PureAV PF60, BrickWall PW8R15AUD, Monster HTS5100 MKII, and Panamax M4300-PM........

[*] There are no standards for measuring power conditioning, and there are precious few professional reviews for conditioners in this price range. (I found several reviews of conditions priced over $3,000). So how should one decide between the choices?

Well these aren't "professional" units either. They are audiophile jewelry. Actually there are IEEE standards on power quality as well as other research by respected organizations such as NASA. But then the above mentioned companies aren't from professional engineering circles either and would not have access to that data.

Just get a good quality surge strip. If you need power failure protection, then get a $100-200 UPS unit. Beyond that if your power is unacceptable call an electrician or the utility. I am not being a smart *** here but those pricy audio power conditioners with blue LED displays are a waste of money. They will not make any improvements over a good low cost surge strip.

Now isolation transformers do provide a benefit but are not in the price range.

Glimmie's HT Page
Being redone - comming soon!

Glimmie is online now  
Reply Home A/V Distribution

Tags
Acoustic Research , Belkin Ap41300fc10 Pf60 Pureav Home Theater Power Console Black , Monster , Monster Hts 5100 10 Outlet Power Center With Stage 4 Clean Power , Apple Tv Md199ll A
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off