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post #61 of 77 Old 01-24-2013, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I would assume that it works the same way as NUVO or Russound or something. Are you saying that those don't offer direct control of those sources? I know that the HTD system uses IR control but now I'm thinking you might be right.. HHHMM The minute I think i got it, bam, something else comes up! biggrin.gif
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post #62 of 77 Old 01-24-2013, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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This actually has me questioning the system... this would mean that i would then need to connect all my sources' IR outputs to the inputs of the iTach TCP/IP to IR and then from that to a switch/router... I would then control all rooms via my iPad/iPhone/iPod or something. Tends to question why i would need all the LyncPads if I can control everything from the phone with the 232 and TCP/IP to IR for iRule. Is this how you see it also?
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post #63 of 77 Old 01-24-2013, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholsps View Post

I would assume that it works the same way as NUVO or Russound or something. Are you saying that those don't offer direct control of those sources? I know that the HTD system uses IR control but now I'm thinking you might be right.. HHHMM The minute I think i got it, bam, something else comes up! biggrin.gif

They do, from the keypads, and their apps have direct control of their source products (music servers). But you're combining products from multiple companies and doing the integration yourself, so... you have to do the integration... wink.gif
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This actually has me questioning the system... this would mean that i would then need to connect all my sources' IR outputs to the inputs of the iTach TCP/IP to IR and then from that to a switch/router... I would then control all rooms via my iPad/iPhone/iPod or something. Tends to question why i would need all the LyncPads if I can control everything from the phone with the 232 and TCP/IP to IR for iRule. Is this how you see it also?

Keypads in the rooms are useful regardless for volume control, on/off and source selection. NuVo / Russound systems would integrate the metadata and source control features, which is the primary difference between them and the much-lower-priced HTD system(s).

Jeff

Rock Creek Theater -- CIH, Panamorph, Martin Logan, SVS PB2000, Carada Masquerade, Grafik Eye, Bar table, Green Glue, JVC RS50 
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post #64 of 77 Old 01-25-2013, 06:45 AM
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Glad I found this thread. Will be referencing it when I start putting my system together later this year.
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post #65 of 77 Old 01-30-2013, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Meeting with a local A/V store this weekend whom my bldr works with and gonna see what they offer as options compared to HTD... More to come!
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post #66 of 77 Old 02-10-2013, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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All...

Need some assistance here. I got all my boxes for speakers and video throughout house ready to be wired... Got 2 gang boxes at all wall unit control locations and single gang boxes for where speakers will be and also where I will run all Cat5 cable. Here's the ???'s I have and need a great deal of help in making a decision:

1- Have a system priced out with HTD.com (is a 12-zone system with all speakers, equipment, and wall controls) for 5800$... Seems like a great deal. The thing that scares me is the lack of metadata and control of sources. Thoughts on my worries or go with this system?
2- Really want to do a video distribution as I don't want BD players at all locations so am thinking of going with an Octava system. A 4X8 HDMI system cost 3K. This will allow me to have 1-AppleTV, 1-BD player, 1-DTV, and another AppleTV/DTV player. Is this a good idea or thoughts here? My original though would not connect the DTV to this as I could get the DTV Genie and distribute this to 4 alt TVs and then use the little boxes if needed more, bypass the matrix all together. Good/bad?
3- Is there an HDMI splitter from 1 to 2, so that I can take the HDMI from a PS3 and split it to both my AVRs that feed the Theater and the Rec Room (basement locations) and allow my son to play it on either TV. Do they have a blutooth extender so that I can put the PS3 in the Mech Room and still access it from either Rec/Theater room or do I need to have it where the remote will be?
4- If I use iRule with say the HTD.com or the Octava unit, do I need to buy an IP2SL for each and connect to the 232 port to control and then to the Switch?

I am sure Jeff will read this and have a huge input, and I'm hoping so b/c I'm lost a bit with what to go with on the A/V. Whether HTD.com will be best (price is attractive for EVERYTHING) and then go with a reasonably priced Octava system; or splurge and get a control4/savant type of controller...
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post #67 of 77 Old 02-10-2013, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
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One more question I forgot to add... is adding all the A/V equipment to the Theater room a benefit or is adding it to the A/V closet just as good. i'm curious how good the HDMI extenders work. Thoughts?
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post #68 of 77 Old 02-10-2013, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholsps View Post

1- Have a system priced out with HTD.com (is a 12-zone system with all speakers, equipment, and wall controls) for 5800$... Seems like a great deal. The thing that scares me is the lack of metadata and control of sources. Thoughts on my worries or go with this system?

What are you going to use for sources? Assuming a Sonos unit or two, you'll have the best you can for that money. A 12-zone system with metadata keypads plus the music server will be ~$7-10k depending on what pricing you can get from a dealer and how much DIY install you're willing to take on.
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2- Really want to do a video distribution as I don't want BD players at all locations so am thinking of going with an Octava system. A 4X8 HDMI system cost 3K. This will allow me to have 1-AppleTV, 1-BD player, 1-DTV, and another AppleTV/DTV player. Is this a good idea or thoughts here? My original though would not connect the DTV to this as I could get the DTV Genie and distribute this to 4 alt TVs and then use the little boxes if needed more, bypass the matrix all together. Good/bad?

A $3k matrix to distribute content from a $99 BD player and AppleTV? What's your reason to avoid the local sources - device clutter / placement?

I'd suggest splitting the zones up to two, 4x4 matrix switches. Put a BD player, AppleTV and D* box on each (or two), divide the zones logically between the two systems. You could split the HDMI from a source if you really need it.
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3- Is there an HDMI splitter from 1 to 2, so that I can take the HDMI from a PS3 and split it to both my AVRs that feed the Theater and the Rec Room (basement locations) and allow my son to play it on either TV. Do they have a blutooth extender so that I can put the PS3 in the Mech Room and still access it from either Rec/Theater room or do I need to have it where the remote will be?

Yes, simple HDMI splitters (but use a 'powered' one) available. Don't know any solution for extending the controller reach, but just like the BD players - remember you're going to have to travel to the unit every time you want to switch movies/games. I solved the gaming console problem between the family room and the theater by simply buying a 2nd Xbox. Cheaper and less hassle.
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4- If I use iRule with say the HTD.com or the Octava unit, do I need to buy an IP2SL for each and connect to the 232 port to control and then to the Switch?

If you need two RS232 ports, use the Global Cache GC-100 instead.
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I am sure Jeff will read this and have a huge input, and I'm hoping so b/c I'm lost a bit with what to go with on the A/V. Whether HTD.com will be best (price is attractive for EVERYTHING) and then go with a reasonably priced Octava system; or splurge and get a control4/savant type of controller...

biggrin.gif

The "middle ground" option would be to move up to the metadata keypad system for audio, save some on the video distribution by dividing and conquering, but still be considerably less than an integrated system like Savant or Control4. Those systems will have a lot of additional potential, but you'll pay for the integration. But as long as you at least go with equipment that has decent control interfaces (RS232, IP), moving those pieces into an integrated system later can be accomplished, too...
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One more question I forgot to add... is adding all the A/V equipment to the Theater room a benefit or is adding it to the A/V closet just as good. i'm curious how good the HDMI extenders work. Thoughts?

A decent extender will work just fine, especially the HDBaseT ones. Don't forget the 'common denominator' audio problem with HDMI - you'll want to dedicate sources to the theater and/or route digital audio separately from any matrix solution, as those sources will very likely be limited to 2-channel PCM.

Jeff

Rock Creek Theater -- CIH, Panamorph, Martin Logan, SVS PB2000, Carada Masquerade, Grafik Eye, Bar table, Green Glue, JVC RS50 
Theater build photos: http://photobucket.com/autor-ht
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post #69 of 77 Old 02-11-2013, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
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For my sources I plan to use an AppleTV, to stream iTunes and a Sonos box so that I can get Pandora, but maybe I should just go with the Sonos box b/c that will do Pandora and do iTunes. Will probably also connect my DTV box to it so that I can get sound throughout the house based on what is on TV (ie: Superbowl) or something. Thoughts here?

Also, the reason I am hooked on the distributed Video is for the reason you stated, I don't want a lot of equipment at all locations. For instance, I had a BD Player in my living room at my old house, it never got used, and I also had one in my Master Bedroom (used it all the time). So i thoughts, why not find a way to share the 1 source in both locations. I do like the 4X4 option as it would allow me to do just that, but how do you control both individual matrixs? Is there a way to chain them together and share the sources between the 2 Matrixs?

I have a meeting Thursday with our local AV store to get this nailed down and see what they can offer, so we'll see. Thanks for the inputs and basically looking for the best economical way to do the AV portion but i know the 2 don't go hand and hand smile.gif Thanks again.
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post #70 of 77 Old 02-11-2013, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholsps View Post

For my sources I plan to use an AppleTV, to stream iTunes and a Sonos box so that I can get Pandora, but maybe I should just go with the Sonos box b/c that will do Pandora and do iTunes. Will probably also connect my DTV box to it so that I can get sound throughout the house based on what is on TV (ie: Superbowl) or something. Thoughts here?

Yes, go Sonos for that - having all the music services / library in a single app will be much easier.
Quote:
Also, the reason I am hooked on the distributed Video is for the reason you stated, I don't want a lot of equipment at all locations. For instance, I had a BD Player in my living room at my old house, it never got used, and I also had one in my Master Bedroom (used it all the time). So i thoughts, why not find a way to share the 1 source in both locations.

Just be careful about buying a $3k matrix to replicate <$100 devices... Remember also that for BD players, you have to go to the unit to put the disc in...
Quote:
I do like the 4X4 option as it would allow me to do just that, but how do you control both individual matrixs? Is there a way to chain them together and share the sources between the 2 Matrixs?

You can share sources between them with an HDMI splitter, and control the source with a dual-input IR emitter cable. But if you're doing that, the 'split' matrix idea may not be right for you. My suggestion was more to duplicate the sources or split them logically. Two AppleTV's, one on each matrix - would give you the ability to have two different ATV shows/movies streaming, for example. Whether this makes sense will depend on what rooms are getting video, the desired sources, and for what purposes. If all the set-top boxes have access to shared DVR "whole house" content, splitting them up doesn't lose anything *except* synchronized viewing in zones across matrix setups...

Jeff

Rock Creek Theater -- CIH, Panamorph, Martin Logan, SVS PB2000, Carada Masquerade, Grafik Eye, Bar table, Green Glue, JVC RS50 
Theater build photos: http://photobucket.com/autor-ht
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post #71 of 77 Old 02-12-2013, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholsps View Post

3- AVR 5.1 receiver... Will be plugged into matrix as an OUTPUT not an input
I would go with Denon (I have the AVR 3311 which I love) or Onkyo. Key is IP control. Also, I use my Denon as an input to my Sonos connect. Works in two situations: when I want to share the audio from my TV - superbowl - it makes it easy to set up as a source, and I use my Samsung as an OTA HD receiver and the sound has to go back from the TV to the AVR.
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10- HVAC Control- Any special thermostat needed for control?
You are in a transitional period from the Crestron proprietary model to more device-driven. Neither is great. I would run CAT5 to thermostat location, but I would use Nest thermostats. It has its own iphone app, but is it that hard to switch apps for those few times that you can't reach the actual thermostat?

My biggest advice if you are thinking of going iRule is to pick your gear based on its support for IP control with open codes. Denon and Onkyo are awesome. I have heard Oppo for BD is good. iTach can act as a bridge for those that are not awesome, but at least get a serial port if there is no IR. IR is fine as a default for simple remotes, but if you are buying new gear, get something with an Ethernet port where someone on the iRule forum has successfully controlled it.

Samsung is really frustrating on this front.
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post #72 of 77 Old 02-18-2013, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Jeff (and all)... Please help... I started doing all the wiring for the HTD WHA system. Here's what I got so far:

- 14/2 cable from Speakers to wall plate
- 1 Cat5e/1 16/4 cable ran from wall plate back to the Mech Room
- Theater room wired with 14/2 back to location of AVR (in theater)
- Rec Room (5.1) wired with 14/2 back to location of AVR (in Rec Room, below TV)

Needing to run:
- 3 Cat5e runs from TV locations back to Mech Room
- 1 RG6 run from TV Locations back to Mech Room

My big questions are:

1- Since I don't plan to do Video Distribution YET (will be wired for it), what is best way to get DTV back to the WHA system to use as a source? Directly from DTV or from Zone2 of the AVR from the Rec Room or Theater...? This would allow for DTV/BD/PS3/FM/XM to be sent back to WHA and be distributed. Thoughts?
2- Should I plan for the Rec Room or the Theater to be a subzone of one of the other zones in the WHA system? If so, what's best way to get RCA from AVR to Mech Room?
3- What other wiring should I consider (ie: Door bell, security, Lighting)? They are doing lighting now but is there something special to be done to get it to work with iOS or something? What special wiring for security should be taken into consideration?

Please let me know. I have just a few more days before they start with insulation and don't want to hold up anyone... THANK YOU!
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post #73 of 77 Old 02-18-2013, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholsps View Post

1- Since I don't plan to do Video Distribution YET (will be wired for it), what is best way to get DTV back to the WHA system to use as a source? Directly from DTV or from Zone2 of the AVR from the Rec Room or Theater...? This would allow for DTV/BD/PS3/FM/XM to be sent back to WHA and be distributed. Thoughts?

I'd run both from the D* box and from Zone2 of the AVR, assuming you have enough source inputs available on the WHA system. That will allow you to use the D* audio without having to power on the AVR's zone2 (which will require more IR / integration work). I used the MuxLab Quad Audio Balun to do a very similar setup (connecting the AVR and the WHA system to each other). Works either direction, over one cat5e cable. (See why you want so much extra at the A/V locations!)

http://muxlab.com/product?class=baluns&product=videoease-quad-audio-balun&pid=97
Quote:
2- Should I plan for the Rec Room or the Theater to be a subzone of one of the other zones in the WHA system? If so, what's best way to get RCA from AVR to Mech Room?

Muxlab balun again - maybe the "HiFi audio" balun here.
Quote:
3- What other wiring should I consider (ie: Door bell, security, Lighting)? They are doing lighting now but is there something special to be done to get it to work with iOS or something? What special wiring for security should be taken into consideration?

Security is a whole other topic, look at the Cocoontech forums for more detailed advice there. Plan for cat5e cables to exterior locations where you might want to place a camera. Same for the front door plus the doorbell location.

Other stuff I did:
  • TV and WHA zone in garage / workshop
  • cat5e to sprinkler timer location
  • cat5e to back yard outlet
  • conduit runs to back yard (used them this year for adding garden speakers)
  • TV outlet in laundry room

The few I didn't think of and expect to deal with over time are (all cat5e):
  • Outdoor WiFi access point
  • Keypads (automation / home control) in high-traffic hallways
  • TV outside for covered patio

Look again at the Cocoontech 103 wiki page as they go overboard on a room-by-room basis. Pick and choose from that list, and note that many of the out-there stuff can be accomplished with cat5e cable, so having a spare one or two in every room isn't a bad idea, and it's super cheap...


Jeff

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post #74 of 77 Old 02-18-2013, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Jeff...

Thanks man. I revisited the download that I had from Cocoontech and came up with some things I forgot. I planned on doing the following:

1- Doorbell
2- Garage
3- Lighting for landscape
4- etc...

but forgot a few important things:

1- Thermostat (Cat5e)
2- Security Box (Cat 5e)
3- Sprinkler TImer

Thanks Jeff...
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post #75 of 77 Old 02-19-2013, 10:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Got a question after tonights running of Audio cable...

What is needed to control the garage? Do I run a Cat5e cable to where the openers (push buttons) are on the wall or do I run them somewhere else? Not sure on this question and am confused.

Thanks.
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post #76 of 77 Old 02-20-2013, 11:27 PM - Thread Starter
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ALL... Please HELP!!!!

since I am running the wire myself, I need to be sure to run the wire for the utilities guy to get Internet to the house. Do I just run a basic Cat5e cable or is there something else that is needed. I have ran every other cable and this is the last run to make. If someone could PLEASE help me, it would be greatly appreciated!!! Thank you.
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post #77 of 77 Old 02-21-2013, 03:56 AM
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Call the cable company. Make sure the incoming cable is properly grounded.

I think my builder ran conduit from the street to the service entrance.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha

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