6x2 Video distribution over coax. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 45 Old 01-04-2013, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello and thanks for helping me out.

My problem:
I have a set of 3 32" displays and a set of 2 60" displays that I need to get video to from 6 input devices (sat box, xbox 360, camera feed over coax, dvd player, vhs player, computer)

I need to be able to have different sources on each set of tvs (the 30 inches and 60 inchers) and the ability to have the same source on all of them.

The video from the switcher to the tvs will be carried over already run coaxial cable. The audio will be run from each source device through a powered mixer then to wall speakers.


1. What can I buy to do the switching with independently controllable outputs(just need two coax outputs).

2. Will I run into any issues doing this.


Thanks for your time
Mel
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post #2 of 45 Old 01-04-2013, 05:12 PM
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You're not going to be happy with the answer... You've got a mix of HD and SD sources, and if you're stuck with using only a single coax without running more wiring, your only real choice will be a set of NTSC/ATSC/QAM modulators for the sources.

You didn't say whether all the TVs are HD-capable displays or not. That will make a big difference. I assume you want HD distribution for the satellite receiver? A mix of HD and SD distribution will be cheaper, and if the satellite receiver is your only true HD source (who is your provider?), placing satellite receivers at each HD display and another one for SD-only distribution will be cheaper.

Distributing multiple HD sources over a single coax to more than one display will require ATSC/QAM modulators - the most popular ones being from ZeeVee. This will cost at least $750 per source. Doing six sources via SD modulation will be much less expensive (a few hundred), which is why I'd suggest moving the HD source to the primary display(s) and get them out of the equation...

So before going any further:

1) What's your budget?
2) Is running additional wiring out of the question?
3) Are all the displays HD? Do they have ATSC tuners built-in? (anything in the last 5 years will)
4) Who's the sat provider?


Jeff

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post #3 of 45 Old 01-04-2013, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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They are hd panels. All sources are sd(use a video and rca outs on dvd player and sat box) we may go hd eventually just not right now. Sat box and video game console will only be used occasionally.

If there are any other bits of info you need please let me know.
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post #4 of 45 Old 01-04-2013, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I will be running a 1 > 2 coax splitter before the 60" panels and a 1 > 3 splitter before the 32" panels both of these after the switcher.
WIlling to sacrifice some quality for cost.

Inputs to be used:
S-Video
RCA Video
VGA

Would Also Like, But Not Needed:
DVI Video
Component Video

Outputs:
SVIDEO
and / or
Coax
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post #5 of 45 Old 01-04-2013, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
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1) What's your budget?
A few hundred max

2) Is running additional wiring out of the question?
No, just can't spend much money on it.

3) Are all the displays HD? Do they have ATSC tuners built-in? (anything in the last 5 years will)
They are new vizio flat panels, have yet to recieve the 60" units.

4) Who's the sat provider?
Directv, will only be used occasionally - very ok with SD quality.
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post #6 of 45 Old 01-04-2013, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry to keep posting...
http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Go-28750-Composite-Selector/dp/B0032ANC8M/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1357355434&sr=1-1&keywords=2+output+video+switch

I just want something like that with a few more inputs and the ability to run one thing to each output simultaneously.
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post #7 of 45 Old 01-04-2013, 08:05 PM
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If you're ok with SD, you just need a 4-channel frequency-agile modulator, which will give you 4 simultaneous "channels" to watch - you can use some external composite switches to fit into a 4-channel model if that's acceptable for little-used sources.

There's lots of them used running around these days as folks switch to HD. ChannelPlus / Linear makes probably the best gear in consumer-grade (read: within your budget), and BOCS has a nice kit with RF remote control (3-channel), too.

http://www.amperordirect.com/pc/c-video-bocs/audiovideo-BOCS_TiVo_DVR.html

Or look for ChannelPlus 4-channel (aka Quad input) models 5545 or 5445.

You'll feed each source to the modulator, then distribute the coax output to the TVs.

Jeff

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post #8 of 45 Old 01-04-2013, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
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That looks like it would work perfectly,
Do you happen to know of a model that would have additional inputs off the top of your head?


Thanks again.
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post #9 of 45 Old 01-04-2013, 08:59 PM
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Never seen one, but you can just buy another 2-channel modulator like it and combine the outputs.

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post #10 of 45 Old 01-05-2013, 04:57 AM
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I use distributed channels from two Channel plus 5545 modulators. It has 4 inputs and I have about 8 inputs from everything from cameras, DVD players and satelite DVRs. After the 5545 I then use a combiner/amplifier and whole house distribution. You assign channels that are not used by your cable system and now you have extra channels. It works great and although all of my TVs are HD I don't find that I mind. I still use HDMI for some direct sources but that's another system.
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post #11 of 45 Old 01-05-2013, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Are there any solutions that would also allow for component video?

And will this be "ok" quality, i don't want to spend the money and get a terrible picture - not that i am expecting anything perfect.

And do you have any suggestions for an RF amplifier and 5 way splitter?

Would i be able to run an antenna for ota tv to one of the above mentioned units and send the signal through the chain?

Is there an inexpensive way to do HD over coax or another cheap cable (ethernet?)


Thank you very much everyone for all of your help.
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post #12 of 45 Old 01-05-2013, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melagius View Post

Are there any solutions that would also allow for component video?

No, not in your budget. The ZeeVee products use component video inputs and provide HD distribution.
Quote:
And will this be "ok" quality, i don't want to spend the money and get a terrible picture - not that i am expecting anything perfect.

It will be SD quality - note also that it will be native 4:3, you can zoom on the TV for 16:9 display, but it will not be perfect.
Quote:
And do you have any suggestions for an RF amplifier and 5 way splitter?

The ChannelPlus / Linear amplified splitters - aka "coax panels".
Quote:
Would i be able to run an antenna for ota tv to one of the above mentioned units and send the signal through the chain?

Yes, you can easily incorporate OTA signals into this distribution - it gets combined with the modulator output, and you just need to steer your modulated channels away from any OTA frequencies to avoid interference. The ChannelPlus coax panels have dual inputs to support a modulator and an antenna for exactly this purpose.
Quote:
Is there an inexpensive way to do HD over coax or another cheap cable (ethernet?)

This is why I asked if you can run cables... Lots of possibilities if you can run cat5e cables to the display locations. The equipment total will be more than the system I described, but it will certainly be better money spent at this point. And you'd get full HD quality. If you can run 2 cat5e cables to each location (total investment <$100 for the wire and terminations), you can use the Monoprice cat5e matrix switch:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10113&cs_id=1011310&p_id=8151&seq=1&format=2

That will get you 4 inputs and 4 outputs. Ditch the VHS deck from distribution and you'll be set. Use the existing coax to provide the camera feed if it's already a modulated output.

Jeff

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post #13 of 45 Old 01-06-2013, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I really wish i could just do the HDMI/Cat5e method - just don't think i can get them to spend that much money.

And i am not sure that hdmi would work since i am also needing an audio signal (pref rca) sent to this external mixer directly from each source.

Is there a cheaper and decent solution if im ok with the same image on every tv at once?

And all of these televisions are in the same room. Roughly 30x60.

Thanks for all your help
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post #14 of 45 Old 01-06-2013, 04:08 PM
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You really need to explain what you're trying to do and what the application is if you want good advice.

If these sets are all in one room, running 2x cat5e to each and using either a matrix or a set of 4x1 switch and 1x4 splitter will do. External audio can be handled separately regardless - just run ECA cables from the sources

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post #15 of 45 Old 01-06-2013, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm doing some video work for a local youth community center(Great group of people doing good work for the kids, keeping them "off the street" and what not) - I'm good for anything relating to computers or pro audio - its the video distribution stuff that is above me.

They have a medium sized upper room they use for classes and as a general hang out area.

We want to set up three tvs on one wall for use during classes and for general movie watching, and will also have two big panels on another wall for watching football games or
teaching classes with bigger groups.

I am running all of the video and audio back to a cabinate in a closet off the main room which is at most 30ft away from the farthest tv.
It will have a powered audio mixer, the combo VHS/DVD player, Directv Reciever, Gaming Console, computer (eventually), and an extra input for future use.

Just FYI the audio will be two nice JBL wall speakers (donated) near the two big tvs, and four ceiling speakers spread throughout the room for fill (also donated),
the wall speakers will be run to the main out on a mackie power mixer, and the ceiling speakers will be run to the monitor out on the same mixer.
Im guessing that i will just use RCA to 1/4" cables to get each source to the mixer. (I'd like each source on a separate channel so that while one source is going
through the main speakers, another source can be playing through the ceiling speakers and/or the same source can be on both)

I would like to make the setup as simple as possible so that it can be used while i am not there.

Ideally i'd like it so that they can watch one source on the three smaller tvs and one source on the two bigger tvs at the same time,
keeping in mind that the audio will be fed directly from the source to a channel on the audio mixer.

My budget is not existent and anything i have to buy (except the donated tvs) will be out of my small pockets.

They are HD panels, but we are ok with an SD feed (as long as its decent) for now and its easy for me to run more cable in the future.


I hope that was not to long,
and i genuinely mean it when i say that i appreciate all of your help!
Thank you!
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post #16 of 45 Old 01-06-2013, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melagius View Post

I'm doing some video work for a local youth community center(Great group of people doing good work for the kids, keeping them "off the street" and what not) - I'm good for anything relating to computers or pro audio - its the video distribution stuff that is above me.
They have a medium sized upper room they use for classes and as a general hang out area.
We want to set up three tvs on one wall for use during classes and for general movie watching, and will also have two big panels on another wall for watching football games or
teaching classes with bigger groups.

Ok, that helps, now we understand what you're trying to do...
Quote:
I would like to make the setup as simple as possible so that it can be used while i am not there.

In my experience, pro audio gear / mixers and "ease of use" do not go well together. A pair of cheap, used AVRs (or simple stereo receivers) would be a better choice, IMO...
Quote:
Ideally i'd like it so that they can watch one source on the three smaller tvs and one source on the two bigger tvs at the same time,

A 4x2 matrix (less than a 4x4) could do this - run cat5e x2 to each wall from the equipment for the two outputs, then use a splitter with short HDMI cables to get the TVs in each group (3 on one, 2 on the other). Monoprice has inexpensive ones, and many have front-panel pushbutton control.

Jeff

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post #17 of 45 Old 01-06-2013, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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So i would go:

Source > HDMI 4x2 Matrix > ???? > Cat5 Cable > ???? > Hdmi Splitter > Televisions.

The only issue i see with going this way is having to buy a new sat receiver and DVD deck unless there is also a cheapish way to go RCA / Component to HDMI - which i had thought could only be done with expensive converters.
I don't think we have HD source gear yet - and its unlikely that this time around.

And normally i'd agree on the mixer, but many of the kids are trained on the sound system in the gym and this
is going to be a simple setup with lots of labels and instructions with it mostly being used by the (trained) adult leader team.
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post #18 of 45 Old 01-06-2013, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melagius View Post

So i would go:
Source > HDMI 4x2 Matrix > ???? > Cat5 Cable > ???? > Hdmi Splitter > Televisions.

HDMI-to-cat5e balun set - use the "powered" variety which are about $50 each. You could also use the long Redmere HDMI cables - which would be simpler...

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025501&p_id=9170&seq=1&format=2

(don't use non-Redmere cables over 20-30' as you may start to have issues. The Redmere cable has an active chip to correct for the cable length)
Quote:
And normally i'd agree on the mixer, but many of the kids are trained on the sound system in the gym and this
is going to be a simple setup with lots of labels and instructions with it mostly being used by the (trained) adult leader team.

Good, sounds like you've got a handle on it. You understand then what a mixer looks like to the untrained eye. biggrin.gif

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post #19 of 45 Old 01-06-2013, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Haha - Yeah. They can be quite intimidating - just like this 'video stuff'rolleyes.gif
Im actually thinking of pulling all the not-needed knobs off once i set it. tongue.gif


And i know that running it HDMI is the right way to go...its just getting quite pricey.

I may try out of those channel plus modulators (trying to snag one cheap on ebay) and see how that works out,
if it does not i will go the hdmi route.


If anyone has any other suggestions or ideas please let me know.

Jeff - Thanks for all your help, you've gotten me off to a good start.
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post #20 of 45 Old 01-06-2013, 10:13 PM
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Yeah, you should be easily able to grab one off eBay for cheap. Give that a try. The next step could be a hybrid approach with some HDMI for the larger screens and the real HD sources (set-top and game console).

Hopefully you have the parental controls set on the DirecTV box! biggrin.gif

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post #21 of 45 Old 01-07-2013, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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If i need to go s-video > rca a standard cable adapter will work, right? No need for a powered converter box?
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post #22 of 45 Old 01-07-2013, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melagius View Post

If i need to go s-video > rca a standard cable adapter will work, right? No need for a powered converter box?

Not sure if there's a simple combiner to do that - but you should just use composite video unless the modulator you pick up can take an S-Video input.

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post #23 of 45 Old 01-11-2013, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I am in the process of buying a channel plus 5545 off of eBay, and spent the day re-running the cable after it had accidentally made contact with
an active 20amp circuit - Not hiring that electrician again! ( mad.gif )

I am placing the 5545 in a closet with the mixer, a coax cable will go from there to the ceiling of the room where the 6 way splitter/amp will be (power is already in place),
there the coax strands will go out to each of the 5 televisions.


However - i am having some trouble finding a decent 5 way splitter,

Am i correct in thinking that it needs to be an active (powered) distribution panel?
And if so, are there any self-contained models you would suggest?




And one other question, it turns out they want to have the set top box for the DirectTv in the gym,
i have a coax cable run from the gym to where the 5455 will be in "the loft area", what would be the best way to run it?
Use the coax out on the stb and go straight into some sort of coax combiner then to the amp, or convert it to rca at the source?
What is the best way to 'split off' the audio in order to send it to a 1/4" input on the mixer?




Thanks again, i really am learning a lot here - maybe one day(quite aways off...) i'll do some of the advice giving instead of just asking for stuff.
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post #24 of 45 Old 01-11-2013, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I am also wondering if the best way to get an s-video input would be to just use one of these? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882203036
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post #25 of 45 Old 01-12-2013, 06:31 AM
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5-way splitters do not exist. You will need to do either a 6-way or use a 2-way splitter, with 1 leg going to another 2-way splitter and the other leg going to a 3-way splitter.

CIAO!

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post #26 of 45 Old 01-12-2013, 07:28 AM
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You can get a 2-channel S-video modulator at http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=ctarm-2sv&d=cabletronix-ctarm-2sv-2-channel-component-residential-digital-agile-modulator-with-infrared-capability-%28ctarm2sv%29 for ~$85. Combine 2 of them utilizing a 2-way splitter to get 4 channels.

CIAO!

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post #27 of 45 Old 01-12-2013, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, i really don't need s-video, i just wanted to get them the option to use it. So a regular cable will not work? RadioShack has one that says it does all the chroma/color "adaptation" passively.
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post #28 of 45 Old 01-12-2013, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you have any suggestions on a 6 way splitter then? Or would you get better quality out of the other method?
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post #29 of 45 Old 01-12-2013, 05:48 PM
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Do a search for a CTGHS-6. Be sure to terminate the unused port. Perhaps you could connect a small monitor TV to it where the equipment is. Utilizing a 6-way splitter would give you the same signal level going to each TV.

CIAO!

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post #30 of 45 Old 01-13-2013, 08:53 AM
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Why would you build a system that's not HD? SD is a long dead technology, and it's just going to look like crap.
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