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post #1 of 17 Old 01-11-2013, 06:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Just wanted to get a few things cleared up on my end. I am pretty familiar with wiring for WHA due to already having existing wiring completed on first floor. I am about to do some work in a bedroom upstairs (convert from bedroom to nursery) so I figured I would go ahead and run addt'l wire for other things.

The bedroom I am running wire to is pretty small (12x12) so I am thinking one speaker will be plenty. My "wiring closet" is in the basement and having to go up to the second floor is probably a 80-100 ft run. I was thinking about running 14/2 to the VC due to the distance (instead of 16/2), looping and going to the speaker location. I will also run Cat5e with the 14/2 for keypads (for future).

Questions:

1. There would be no reason to run 14/4 to the VC if the room is so small I would never plan on putting in two speakers correct?

2. I am thinking 6 1/2 round speaker in the ceiling?

3. When and why would someone consider installing a DVC speaker?

I think those are all the questions that I have for now.....

Thanks,
Michael
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post #2 of 17 Old 01-11-2013, 07:28 AM
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There would be no reason to run 14/4 to the VC if the room is so small I would never plan on putting in two speakers correct?

That's big enough for two speakers. A bathroom would get a single speaker, but for a 12x12 room, throw in two.

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I am thinking 6 1/2 round speaker in the ceiling?

Your preference. My advice, start with a decent/good set of small speakers (such as 6 1/2). You can always increase the size of the speaker hole... it's a little more difficult to decrease that hole though.
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post #3 of 17 Old 01-11-2013, 09:07 AM
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Hey M1chael,

First off I'd tend to agree with Gramin, You could definitely go with two speakers in a room that size. However, if you are dead set on a single speaker location, I would still recommend pulling 14/4. Then shop around for single – stereo speakers. It essentially gives you a left and right speaker in a single enclosure. We use them often in bathrooms and showers. They obviously require 4 conductors.

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post #4 of 17 Old 01-11-2013, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by M1chael View Post

1. There would be no reason to run 14/4 to the VC if the room is so small I would never plan on putting in two speakers correct?

Run wiring consistently for all zones so you don't have a mismatch of control methods. Regardless if the room is big or small, independent volume control is good...
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2. I am thinking 6 1/2 round speaker in the ceiling?

Yes, as Gramin said, 6.5" is a good size, lots of speaker choices available, and upgrading to larger speakers is much easier than trying to fill in big holes.
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3. When and why would someone consider installing a DVC speaker?

Truly small spaces or hallways, I would say these should (for residential use) be considered a lot less often than a lot of people expect...

Jeff
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post #5 of 17 Old 01-11-2013, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jgrif08 View Post

Hey M1chael,

First off I'd tend to agree with Gramin, You could definitely go with two speakers in a room that size. However, if you are dead set on a single speaker location, I would still recommend pulling 14/4. Then shop around for single – stereo speakers. It essentially gives you a left and right speaker in a single enclosure. We use them often in bathrooms and showers. They obviously require 4 conductors.

JG


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Thanks for the recommendation....stereo wouldn't be the same as a DVC correct? I think I may be a little confused here.....?
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post #6 of 17 Old 01-11-2013, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jautor View Post

Run wiring consistently for all zones so you don't have a mismatch of control methods.

What do you mean exactly by "mismatch of control methods"...I think I am having a brain slide at the moment.
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post #7 of 17 Old 01-11-2013, 12:47 PM
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Ha, yeah sorry for the confusion. I wasn't familiar with the term DVC, but yeah, looks like they're the same thing.


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post #8 of 17 Old 01-11-2013, 12:53 PM
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What do you mean exactly by "mismatch of control methods"...I think I am having a brain slide at the moment.

Meaning you don't want to have five rooms wired for in-room volume control and one room without it. Because that means you have to come up with a separate control method for that one "different" room. Now, there may be cases where the use case is such that this might be acceptable ("I'll always use my iPod to adjust that zone"), but it forces it to be different FOREVER. Much better to install a consistent wiring to allow the same control method in every zone - keypad / VC / whatever. No one says you have to touch it after installation, or even install a keypad if you can "do without" it. But wire it correctly, so you, or the FUTURE owner, can change your minds...

Jeff

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post #9 of 17 Old 01-11-2013, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jgrif08 View Post

Ha, yeah sorry for the confusion. I wasn't familiar with the term DVC, but yeah, looks like they're the same thing.


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Ok..sounds good, thanks for clarifying!
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post #10 of 17 Old 01-11-2013, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jautor View Post

Meaning you don't want to have five rooms wired for in-room volume control and one room without it. Because that means you have to come up with a separate control method for that one "different" room. Now, there may be cases where the use case is such that this might be acceptable ("I'll always use my iPod to adjust that zone"), but it forces it to be different FOREVER. Much better to install a consistent wiring to allow the same control method in every zone - keypad / VC / whatever. No one says you have to touch it after installation, or even install a keypad if you can "do without" it. But wire it correctly, so you, or the FUTURE owner, can change your minds...

Jeff

Oh ok...that is kind of what I thought you meant. I don't want to give you the impression that I will do that. All my other "zones" have VC's and cat wire ran. So when its time all I have to do is swap out with keypads and I will be ready. I wouldn't think of doing another zone without at least adding a VC...especially how cheap they are these days (monoprice).

Thanks for the assistance.....on to wiring this weekend or at least wire "pathing" ugh!
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post #11 of 17 Old 01-14-2013, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Just wanted to bump this thread once again because i am planning on ordering some products in the next day or so and wanted to make sure what i have planned is adequate.....

Speaker for nursery/bedroom: www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10837&cs_id=1083702&p_id=4619&seq=1&format=2

VC (not sure what wattage to get exactly):www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10903&cs_id=1090301&p_id=8242&seq=1&format=2

4 conductor speaker wire: www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023902&p_id=4040&seq=1&format=2

Also planned to pick up a fresh spool of cat5e solid utp for future
keypads: www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10233&cs_id=1023303&p_id=881&seq=1&format=2

Just curious, does anyone else color code their wire depending on use? I was planning on using red for the keypads just like most of my network cable is blue.

If anyone has other suggestions or comments please let me know!
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post #12 of 17 Old 01-16-2013, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Bump...anyone?

Any specific feedback on how monoprice speakers hold up and compare with higher end companies? I plan on using one of their DVC models for the small bedroom we are working on.

Thanks,
Michael
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post #13 of 17 Old 01-16-2013, 10:50 AM
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(note to readers: It's painful to follow a whole bunch of links in a list just to know what products you're talking about... Links are great, but in a list, add the model numbers in the text...)

Lots of folks here have used the Monoprice speakers. I haven't heard them, but their construction and specs would at least make them comparable to other speakers normally seen in the $100-200/pair range. I do notice the difference between the various models of speakers I used in my ceilings - with the Boston Acoustics and Definitive Tech's significantly outperforming.

My advice on cheap in-ceiling speakers is to stick with the 6.5" variety, as that will give you a lot of upgrade options since there are a lot of other speakers (same size or larger) that will fit in that hole, or a larger one. Don't buy cheap 8" or larger speakers, as that will force any upgrade into a much narrower range of products.

The Monoprice wire is what I used throughout, and color-coding is "free" when you buy multiple spools, so why not. Best utilized when the endpoints are in different locations, but can also be helpful to distinguish multiple cables at the same location. Just don't get too married to the concept and get too anal about it, as there will be cases where you'll need to use a wire for a different purpose than your color code...

Jeff

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post #14 of 17 Old 01-16-2013, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jautor View Post

(note to readers: It's painful to follow a whole bunch of links in a list just to know what products you're talking about... Links are great, but in a list, add the model numbers in the text...)Jeff

Jeff-

Sorry about the links....I will be sure to list model / description info as well next time...Thanks for the heads up:)

I am going to install just one of the 4619's (DVC) speakers in that room. I don't think it is necessary for my particular setup to put in (2) 6.5's...the room is really small.

I have never ordered wire from them so I was curious as to the quality and I am glad you chimed in. I will go ahead and do a little color coding while I am at it! Thanks for the assistance!
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post #15 of 17 Old 01-16-2013, 11:35 AM
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Sorry about the links....I will be sure to list model / description info as well next time...Thanks for the heads up:)

Yours was not the worst offender I've seen in the past few weeks... At least you didn't claim you weren't an audiophile... eek.giftongue.gif
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I am going to install just one of the 4619's (DVC) speakers in that room. I don't think it is necessary for my particular setup to put in (2) 6.5's...the room is really small.

DVC is much better than "one". If the room is truly small... But I wouldn't count any bedroom as too small for a pair of speakers. 12 x 12 is not a small room. A pair of in-ceilings 4-6' feet apart would be a better solution, IMO. That's certainly how I've done my secondary bedrooms, which are similar-sized.

Jeff

PS - Use purple. My favorite low-volt wire color. No one expects purple! biggrin.gif

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post #16 of 17 Old 01-16-2013, 11:55 AM
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PS - Use purple.

Great suggestion... love it! I'm going to do this... now my A/V closet will even tie into the color scheme of my home. Going with a purple bedroom... purple is the color of passion wink.gif
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post #17 of 17 Old 01-16-2013, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Yours was not the worst offender I've seen in the past few weeks

Well that's good to know...(best of the worst smile.gif )
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At least you didn't claim you weren't an audiophile... eek.giftongue.gif

I have seen that word floating around here quite often lately.....I've been called a lot of things but audiophile hasn't been one of them!
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DVC is much better than "one". If the room is truly small... But I wouldn't count any bedroom as too small for a pair of speakers. 12 x 12 is not a small room. A pair of in-ceilings 4-6' feet apart would be a better solution, IMO. That's certainly how I've done my secondary bedrooms, which are similar-sized.

Yeah, I will give it some more thought (2 versus the 1 DVC). To me the room looks so small that people would "think" its ridiculous...but dunno......
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PS - Use purple. My favorite low-volt wire color. No one expects purple! biggrin.gif

I would be poked fun of in my own house if I used purple....I think I will opt for red...lol
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