Losing HDMI signal when lights fans etc.. turn on or off - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 03-07-2013, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a 25 ft run to my projector from a monoprice 4x4 hdmi matrix. I also have that matrix hooked up to two other plasma's. when i turn my lights on full brightness, or kick a fan on the hdmi signal gets lost, and it takes 5-15 seconds for it to come back. Some times I have to turn the lights off for it to come back... This is very odd, as the projector is on a circuit literally by itself. 20 amps, straight from the box. The other gear is basically on it's own circuit, and it's connected UPS. Here's where it gets even stranger, I plugged the projector into a battery backup, and ran it strictly off the backup, not plugged into the house, it won't work at all, as in hdmi won't display a thing. when I plug the battery backup into the wall it works fine? Do i have some kind of odd ground problem? This is driving me nuts. Any ideas?
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post #2 of 12 Old 03-07-2013, 01:59 PM
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Differing grounds would be one of my guesses. The other is that they're on different phases of power. Most U.S. homes get two of the three phases coming from the power company. Connecting different pieces of A/V equipment to different phases frequently causes strange problems. I think you need to plug your projector and A/V equipment all into the same UPS, and make sure it's not connected to the phase which feeds your lights and heavy-duty electrical equipment (refrigerators, HVAC, etc.).

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post #3 of 12 Old 03-07-2013, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I didnt think about them being on different phases. Not sure what side of the circuits are on. Ill try an extension cord off the same ups and if that fixes the problem ill move all of my equipment to one 20a vircuit. More when I get home later.
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post #4 of 12 Old 03-07-2013, 06:30 PM
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Your UPS needs to be replaced. If it won't power anything on its own, it's done. Try connecting you equipment into a regular plug (non UPS). See if that solves the problem. You house will be single phase power. It's 2 different legs of power (120/240V where i live) off the secondary winding of the transformer. There could be problem with one leg of the power feeding you house, it could be caused by something in your house or even someone else's house nearby. Dimmers could cause issues, as well as the fan, and even the type of lights. It could be the wiring in your house (loose grounds, neutrals, or hots). If switching the leg it's connected too doesn't work, or not using the UPS, you might need to have an electrician look at your wiring on the circuit that you are having issues with.
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post #5 of 12 Old 03-07-2013, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I think you misunderstood the ups powers the device 100% fine but the hdmi signal only works when thr ups is plugged into the wall. Very odd. Its single phase 110/220 here as well so 2 legs. 200 amp service. Im still leaning towards a weird grounding issue just not sure where.
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post #6 of 12 Old 03-08-2013, 07:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Most U.S. homes get two of the three phases coming from the power company.

No they don't. That would result in 120 degree phase difference and a potential of 208V.
North american households get a single phase split supply, 240V centertapped.
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post #7 of 12 Old 03-08-2013, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Differing grounds would be one of my guesses. The other is that they're on different phases of power. Most U.S. homes get two of the three phases coming from the power company. Connecting different pieces of A/V equipment to different phases frequently causes strange problems. I think you need to plug your projector and A/V equipment all into the same UPS, and make sure it's not connected to the phase which feeds your lights and heavy-duty electrical equipment (refrigerators, HVAC, etc.).

I'm sorry but this "all AV equipment on the same phase" requirement is a consumer audio myth. Go into any Radio station, TV Station / mastering facility, or major recording studio and you will find three phase power. There is no standard as to what equipment goes on which phase other than to keep the phases reasonably balanced like under 10%. You do need to keep neutral current to a minimum and perhaps the moving of equipment to different circuits for phase balance reasons is where this misunderstood myth developed. Isolated ground systems are common but even these are falling out of favor due to cost as most gear today is digital or even IP based and pretty much immune to ground loop issues.

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post #8 of 12 Old 03-08-2013, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Gimmie,

Fair enough, but my issue has to be some kind of ground loop issue? Something really odd? Any ideas?
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post #9 of 12 Old 03-08-2013, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SAM64 View Post

No they don't. That would result in 120 degree phase difference and a potential of 208V.
North american households get a single phase split supply, 240V centertapped.

But you can find three phase in multiple story apartment buildings.

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post #10 of 12 Old 03-08-2013, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by michael55123 View Post

Gimmie,

Fair enough, but my issue has to be some kind of ground loop issue? Something really odd? Any ideas?

Yes a ground loop or more likely a mis-wired circuit. You can get those circuit testers at any home center that will show you if the outlet is wired properly. If you have a mis-wired outlet that needs to be fixed not only for your AV prolems but more importantly for general safety.

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post #11 of 12 Old 03-08-2013, 02:28 PM
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Glimmie,

Thanks for the clarification! Two phases 180 degrees out of phase with one another are sure to be quite bad enough! I'm sure that's where my confusion originated.

Hopefully one would not normally encounter three different phases in the same apartment. I can imagine cases where later building remodeling might introduce that as a possibility, but I hope that conscientious building inspectors wouldn't permit it.

(I live in an apartment with just one phase supplying it, but the Lab where I work has three phases throughout the building. Some equipment requires multi-phase power.)

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post #12 of 12 Old 03-09-2013, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Glimmie,


Hopefully one would not normally encounter three different phases in the same apartment. I can imagine cases where later building remodeling might introduce that as a possibility, but I hope that conscientious building inspectors wouldn't permit it.

(I live in an apartment with just one phase supplying it, but the Lab where I work has three phases throughout the building. Some equipment requires multi-phase power.)

In an apartment building with a 3 phase utility feed I would expect to see a standard split phase panel across two of the phases. That would give you 120v/120v to neutral but only 208v phase to phase for an range or HVAC unit. They could install three phase local panels but I would think not due to cost. You just spread all the split phase panels evenly across the phases. Perhaps an electrician can chime in here.

I believe Europe does use three phase in residential?

As far as the equipment on the same phase, there are honest reports on this and other forums where moving say a sub woofer to a different phase did fix a hum problem. But the true issue there was a ground loop or mis-wired outlet I am sure. By moving to a different circuit, you change the ground topology slightly, enough to sometimes reduce the voltage in the loop to an inaudible level.

The all time home HT hum culprit is CATV. CATV must be bonded at the service ground point and this will create a ground loop 50% or more of the time. The CATV trunk is also bonded to the electrical ground along the poles though the trunk amplifier power supplies . The solution is a CATV isolating transformer. You can also make one with two 75/300 ohm baluns wired back to back.

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