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post #1 of 22 Old 04-05-2013, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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To All,

For those of you who browse the A/V Dist. board regularly you will have noticed my post in the "New Build Wiring" thread. I am projecting new construction in the forth quarter this year and am trying to absorb as much information about creating a "Smart Home" as possible.

I will be taking a phase in approach with the following intentions;

PHASE ONE:

Full wire pull that will include wiring to all bed rooms / bathrooms / phone / HDMI / etc.... I will also put a rack in the Mech closet although for the time being it will only house a network switch. I intend on putting the Coax drop amp / splitter as well as phone dist. in a structured wiring panel in the same closet.

PHASE TWO:

Achieve WHA. Here is my question???? If eventually I have full intentions on integrating a Control4 or similar product into the mix does adopting WHA tech like NuVo / Russound / HTD etc.... do me any good?

What are the pros / cons about using such a product versus allowing C4 to do all of the matrix switching / amplifying / etc...

Hope I was clear in my ?...

JC
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post #2 of 22 Old 04-06-2013, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownSouthAV View Post

If eventually I have full intentions on integrating a Control4 or similar product into the mix does adopting WHA tech like NuVo / Russound / HTD etc.... do me any good?

The key words there are "eventually" and "similar". If you knew for certain you'd be integrating with Control4, then perhaps their WHA components would be a good choice. Since you won't need the products for another year, there will probably be other choices available by then, too.

If you want to start with a WHA system, and later expand into automation - any of the top names will have the driver / integration support for the automation systems. This is true for Russound and NuVo, and since HTD has RS232 control, I'm sure it can be integrated as well.

Jeff

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post #3 of 22 Old 04-06-2013, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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So...

This is how I see it:

Control4 8-Zone Amp : $2500
Control4 HC-800: $1500
Control4 Remote: $250

VERSUS

Nuvo Essential (6 Zones vs 8 ) w/ Controls : $2600 or so via Smarthome
OR
Nuvo Grand Concerto (8Zones) w/ Controls: $4200 via Smarthome

So the 6 Zone Nuvo would get me into WHA a little cheaper although with less zones and with less watts per zone (40 vs 120)

I think I will just hold out until I see what Control4 products are available when I am ready for Phase 2...

Thanks again Jeff.
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post #4 of 22 Old 04-06-2013, 03:36 PM
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That price compare is a bit off, as both of those NuVo systems contain in-wall control keypads for six zones at that price. So quite a bit more functionality than a single handheld remote...

But none of the above include any sources, you'll need to consider that as the primary cost/benefit - for most systems the "matching" server / streaming device should be considered a mandatory piece.

Jeff

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post #5 of 22 Old 04-06-2013, 05:56 PM
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Have you looked at the new Nuvo distributed audio system?

Jeff, why did you not mention it?

Probably a C4 driver for it already.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha

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post #6 of 22 Old 04-06-2013, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

That price compare is a bit off, as both of those NuVo systems contain in-wall control keypads for six zones at that price. So quite a bit more functionality than a single handheld remote...

But none of the above include any sources, you'll need to consider that as the primary cost/benefit - for most systems the "matching" server / streaming device should be considered a mandatory piece.

Jeff

The fact that the Nuvo systems include the in wall control is really having me think about going this route. Coupled with the Nuvo Music Port I guess I'd be set for awhile. And I did read that Nuvo does has drivers available for when I eventually incorporate the C4 system.

My primary goal was always to obtain WHA long before I attempt any automation.

As for as a source I was really tossing up a few difference options. BUT...as mentioned previously I will not be purchasing any of the like products for at least a year and at the rate tech advances I may have vastly different options than what I have now.
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post #7 of 22 Old 04-06-2013, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

That price compare is a bit off, as both of those NuVo systems contain in-wall control keypads for six zones at that price. So quite a bit more functionality than a single handheld remote...

But none of the above include any sources, you'll need to consider that as the primary cost/benefit - for most systems the "matching" server / streaming device should be considered a mandatory piece.

Jeff

After a little research I am assuming that this would be the necessary piece to complete the C4 set up?

Multi-Tuner?

http://www.control4.com/products/audio-video/C4-TUN2-E-B
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post #8 of 22 Old 04-06-2013, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownSouthAV View Post

After a little research I am assuming that this would be the necessary piece to complete the C4 set up?

Multi-Tuner?

http://www.control4.com/products/audio-video/C4-TUN2-E-B

Unless you want the AM/FM radio as a backup in case of Internet access failure (storms, etc.), you can skip the tuner modules these days as most local radio stations, as well as SiriusXM, stream over the Internet. And since you'll most likely want one of the Internet streaming / digital media server devices, the tuner is redundant.

I got a deal on my FM/XM tuner when I set mine up (pre-Internet-Radio-availability on WHA systems), but never use it any more. I keep it in the system purely for hurricane use. eek.gif

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post #9 of 22 Old 04-06-2013, 10:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Then what would C4 equal be to NuVo's MusicPort? I'm pretty new to this as you can probably tell. I did see C4 advertise Rhapsody service on the site what product streams that service? Shoot just as I thought I was getting to a final build direction I keep confusing myself even more.
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post #10 of 22 Old 04-07-2013, 04:40 AM
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My local dealer recommended the Autonomics Mirage (http://www.autonomic-controls.com/products_hardware_mirage_mms5.php) as the best in class media server. Instead of just streaming your itunes music, it will actually copy and store the music files to play locally (ie the computer can be turned off and you still have access to all of your itunes (or other music organizer) music).

I loved everything I heard about it, except the price. It's about 4X as expensive as the Nuvo P3100 and to me only offers a little bit more functionality. What do the experts here think about this one?

Scott
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post #11 of 22 Old 04-07-2013, 05:38 AM
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Relevant discussion at another forum.

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-custom/thread.cgi?30913

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha

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post #12 of 22 Old 04-07-2013, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Neurorad View Post

Relevant discussion at another forum.

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-custom/thread.cgi?30913

No mention of any NuVo products but in a SONOS vs Control4 it seems to pretty one sided. SONOS is looking like a viable option.

On another note: I stayed up half the night last night digging deeper into a few of the products mentioned. Other than the two concerns of : 1) No wall key pad function (YET) & 2) Only 20w /channel the P3100 is really looking like a very nice WHA solution. I think I could get used to no key pad but does anyone have any concern with such a low power output?
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post #13 of 22 Old 04-07-2013, 10:55 AM
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For those zones where you may want more power, e.g. patio, deck, pool, use external amps. 20 amps is fine for the majority of areas. I have never blasted my Nuvo GC (40 watts), but it's more than adequate for my deck and backyard. Overkill for inside.

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post #14 of 22 Old 04-07-2013, 11:00 AM
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You may want to find a good C4 installer, to talk things over, at this time. Discuss C4 cable requirements, and to find a company you're comfortable with. A discussion of future options would be a good test for the salesman. You may have trouble finding an installer you like. They won't want you installing cable, instead of them. They want to make sure it's done right, and they want to make money from it. You'll find out how flexible each dealer is.

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post #15 of 22 Old 04-07-2013, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Neurorad / Jautor,

Thanks for all of the help. Here in South Louisiana I have a few options for installers so I suppose I'll meet with a few. Options are limited here in South Louisiana but we have a few companies. I know of 2 reputable Control4 dealers that also handle SONOS products. I'll start there. According to NuVo's site I only have 1 dealer fairly local to me. (1hr away) I'l also discuss installation requirements if I settle up on a NuVo product over SONOS / C4 audio.

I have briefly discussed an install with one local dealer and he said they would be open to me providing cabling and charging for labor only. I did not however ask about the options for me pulling the cable and having them terminate and hookup the components.

As previously mentioned my goal has always been to achieve WHA then...as many of our projects do the scope grew as i stumbled upon all the sweet A/V options I could do. With that being said I def. think my next step after wiring and rack install will be to adopt a WHA system that will allow for a phase in approach.

At this point the products in the spotlight, at least for me are...NuVo with their P3100 platform and SONOS.
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post #16 of 22 Old 04-08-2013, 03:18 PM
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Going back to JC's original question (as I'm contemplating the exact same thing right now) - are there any major drawbacks in user experience/sound quality/integration with installing Nuvo today and then adding Control4 in the future?

Would the Nuvo keypads only control audio? (I assume so). The C4 integration just means that from my C4 app or via the remote/TV I could select "Music" and play any source through the Nuvo system, just like I could if I opened up the Nuvo app or used a keypad, right?

Would I be throwing anything away (or have duplicate hardware) once I buy the C4 system? Would you still need the Nuvo processor to handle the WHA or would Control4 step in?

Thanks!
Scott
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post #17 of 22 Old 04-08-2013, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smenzer View Post

Going back to JC's original question (as I'm contemplating the exact same thing right now) - are there any major drawbacks in user experience/sound quality/integration with installing Nuvo today and then adding Control4 in the future?

Would the Nuvo keypads only control audio? (I assume so). The C4 integration just means that from my C4 app or via the remote/TV I could select "Music" and play any source through the Nuvo system, just like I could if I opened up the Nuvo app or used a keypad, right?

Would I be throwing anything away (or have duplicate hardware) once I buy the C4 system? Would you still need the Nuvo processor to handle the WHA or would Control4 step in?

Thanks!
Scott

Okay here it goes guys...I will attempt to give back a little. Jautor and Neuro please be kind:

The only draw back I see is that you would have a WHA system that is different than your Automation controller. From the research I have done it seems that Control4 was founded upon home automation roots and has only recently (a few yrs now) have gotten into offering WHA audio componentry. I could be dead wrong here and they may have been offering WHA gear since inception but this is not their core competency. NuVo on the other hand does audio distribution and from it looks like does it well. Core competency = WHA

NuVo controllers control audio only from what I gather. Although I vaguely remember reading something that they may control other things?? And yes the C4 would be the front end to your NuVo hardware. BUT Control4 would lend you the ability to integrate video / lighting / climate / etc....

I don't think you would throw away a thing, UNLESS you purchase the NuVo branded android wireless controller. No need to purchase a Control4 audio processor if you already have the Nuvo distribution set up. I think the C4 HC800 would become the GUI rather than the NuVo hardware remaining the same. Extra Vegetables has a driver that allows full control over your NuVo system via Control4
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post #18 of 22 Old 04-09-2013, 04:55 PM
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Hi JC - thanks for the response. Have you made a decision on which direction you're going to go yet?

Scott
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post #19 of 22 Old 04-09-2013, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Scott, after doing some self reflection and getting back to the primary goal of WHA at this point I'm leaning towards the NuVo platform. While I still fully intend to wire the crap out of the house while the walls are open I don't foresee C4 coming into play for at least 2 more yrs. Entry point to achieve WHA via C4 products is much more $$ than the NuVo gear. And it allows a platform to build upon while the min eq you would need for C4is the HC250/800 , amp, remote, and some sort of streamer or music database.

I spoke with my local NuVo guy and intend to see his personal home that is equipped with the P3100 gear. I'll give a report after the demo.

Hope all of this makes sense.

Jacob
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post #20 of 22 Old 04-09-2013, 08:39 PM
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I think you guys should read the Nuvo installation manual. I haven't read it, but it may provide some insights.

I have only played with the C4 and new Nuvo equipment at CEDIA, so I'm really not in a position to make specific recs. Usually it's the integrator/CI making the hardware decisions. If you want to make decisions in his/her place, read the manuals. Learn all you can about C4, and the new Nuvo system, before deciding they're right for you.

Read the Nuvo manual before the demo.

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post #21 of 22 Old 04-12-2013, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Well guys a little bad news. I did not get to demo the P3100 system today. I spoke with the NuVo rep and unfortunately his entire team was out at a build site. He offered apologizes and told me to make sure i call him back and he will show me a full demo.

On my flight back from Dallas I read the Nuvo manual and this evening I did a little more digging into the C4 system. As I see it now this is what I am looking at ... and I guess Scott may be in the same boat.


To achieve 8 Zones w/ mandatory Pandora streaming the following would be required

Nuvo: P3100 x 2 = 6zones & P200 x 2 = 8Zones --Pandora achieved via built in streamer. Additional source: iTunes library via NAS drive.

I like the idea of adding at least one P200 into the system due to the functionality of having Bluetooth streaming. Could use numerous control option. Cheapest being free app all the way up to the NuVo android controller. As mentioned in another thread you could install iPod touches at desired wall locations.

Control4: 8 Zone Amp = 8 Zones w/ Full Audio Matrix switching , HC800 controller, Grace Digital Tuner pro to achieve Pandora. (have not done any more digging to find like products)

I suppose each set up has their pros / cons....I'll be purchasing either gear post 2013 CEDIA so i'll probably be evaluating new and exciting features by then.

Thanks again for all the help everyone.

JC
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post #22 of 22 Old 04-13-2013, 04:08 PM
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JC - be sure to post after you get a Nuvo demo. It does sound like I'm in exactly the same boat (including timing for purchasing). I have a dealer coming to my house next month to talk about designs so I can prewire this summer, and I'll be sure to post details once that happens
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