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post #1 of 21 Old 04-22-2013, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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So we just brought a house with 14 or 16 speakers. I have not counted them all yet. However they look like this:




And these are the wires. There was 15 of the



I am assuming some of those wires are speakers and some are the volume control? They have already been install on ceiling and the volume controls are all in different rooms.

I have a pioneer 1522k with a 5.1 system already. I like to be able to use the zone feature of the receiver.

However, I like to integrate all of those 14 to 16 speakers into the receiver as well.

How can I hook up all of those speakers and add them into the receiver? I ask this already in speakers, thought I could get some better explanation. Someone recommend a niles sms-10 but I have no idea what this does besides it being able to accept 10 speakers.

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post #2 of 21 Old 04-22-2013, 10:36 AM
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The four-conductor cables (red/black/green/white) are speaker wires for each pair. If there are 8 pairs of speakers, and you have 8 of those, plus 8 more, hopefully those other wires are cat5e - which would allow you to install keypads now or in the future in place of simple volume controls.

Assuming the volume controls are impedance-matching (you should pull one out of the wall to get the make/model to be sure), you could connect all 8 pairs to an AVR. The SMS-10 would only be needed if those VC's are NOT impedance-matching. A speaker selector may make it easier to connect all of these pairs together, but it's really just a matter of wire-nut splicing them together in parallel.

For that many rooms (zones), though, you should start thinking about a "whole house audio" system, especially if you have cat5e wires available for keypads. Having this many rooms connected to a single zone limits its usefulness to parties, really.


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post #3 of 21 Old 04-22-2013, 02:06 PM
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If your volume controls are impedance matching, you would do something like this, using zone 2 of your AVR:



If they are not impedance matching, you would use a speaker selector box:



If the sound is not loud enough, you would use a multichannel amp between the AVR and the speakers:



More details on the Crutchfield website.

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post #4 of 21 Old 04-22-2013, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

The four-conductor cables (red/black/green/white) are speaker wires for each pair. If there are 8 pairs of speakers, and you have 8 of those, plus 8 more, hopefully those other wires are cat5e - which would allow you to install keypads now or in the future in place of simple volume controls.

Assuming the volume controls are impedance-matching (you should pull one out of the wall to get the make/model to be sure), you could connect all 8 pairs to an AVR. The SMS-10 would only be needed if those VC's are NOT impedance-matching. A speaker selector may make it easier to connect all of these pairs together, but it's really just a matter of wire-nut splicing them together in parallel.

For that many rooms (zones), though, you should start thinking about a "whole house audio" system, especially if you have cat5e wires available for keypads. Having this many rooms connected to a single zone limits its usefulness to parties, really.

Jeff

it was my bad. 10 Green shield cables attached above. It was 18 speakers total. There's already volume control which I have attached at the bottom.
4 blue additional wires which I don't think is hook up to any speakers. There's no cat5. This receiver has multi-zone feature 2,3,4 so I'll just use that. I'm pretty satisfy with that many zone. I don't really have a need for more.

so i made this diagram. i think that's how they are wired.
I went through the house and look at all the speakers and volume control.
i have no idea what is impedance matching? They're all the same speakers and same volume control judging by the looks of it.
remember i'm still attaching the 5.1 set to this receiver as well.



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post #5 of 21 Old 04-26-2013, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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any thoughts on how to incorporate all of them into the current setup?

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post #6 of 21 Old 04-26-2013, 10:29 AM
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Neurorad's post explained it pretty completely. "Impedance matching" is required for attaching more than 1-2 pairs of speakers to a single amp channel-pair. The Crutchfield link he provided has a lot of additional detail.

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post #7 of 21 Old 04-26-2013, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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any easy way to find if they're impedance matching?
if they are impedance matching?
How can I do the following? Is it simple to just using banana plugs?
quote: it's really just a matter of wire-nut splicing them together in parallel.

how is this achieve?

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post #8 of 21 Old 04-26-2013, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenmastera View Post

any easy way to find if they're impedance matching?
if they are impedance matching?

Take one out and look at it, find the make/model and Google it. If there's a jumper / switch that says something like "1X / 2X / 4X", that's what you're looking for...
Quote:
How can I do the following? Is it simple to just using banana plugs?
quote: it's really just a matter of wire-nut splicing them together in parallel.

how is this achieve?

Use a wire nut or a splice block like Neurorad suggested.


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post #9 of 21 Old 04-26-2013, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

Take one out and look at it, find the make/model and Google it. If there's a jumper / switch that says something like "1X / 2X / 4X", that's what you're looking for...
Use a wire nut or a splice block like Neurorad suggested.


when you said splice block, you mean connecting block?
when you suggested wire nut: maybe I'm missing the point where they're all connecting?
I would use a wire nut to wire the pair together and then what?

I'll check to see if they're matching today.
Thanks for the info!

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post #10 of 21 Old 04-26-2013, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenmastera View Post

when you said splice block, you mean connecting block?

Yes.
Quote:
when you suggested wire nut: maybe I'm missing the point where they're all connecting?
I would use a wire nut to wire the pair together and then what?

A "pigtail". Another short piece of wire spliced in with the rest of them, that goes from your wire-nut splice to the equipment. So with 4 speakers, you have 5 wires. The fifth goes to the amp. It's the same as a connecting block without the block. A block makes it cleaner and easier to deal with... Go with that.

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post #11 of 21 Old 08-06-2015, 06:24 AM - Thread Starter
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I know I'm resurrecting a 2 year old thread. I finally got around to opening the volume control....

It is a niles vcs-2d, vcs-2s, vcs-2u. I google this and it is impedance matching right?

So my pioneer avr is downstairs. All of these speakers wired back to a closet in my master bedroom.
It'll be hard to run speaker wires from master bedroom to living room.

Any way for me to connect all of these speakers together but wireless from the AVR?
Do you have an idea how it was hook up before?

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post #12 of 21 Old 08-06-2015, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenmastera View Post
Do you have an idea how it was hook up before?


I would buy another AVR or consider Sonos, or run a cable (and use extenders).

What is the distance from the AVR to the MBR? Wireless may be challenging.

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post #13 of 21 Old 08-06-2015, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenmastera View Post
So my pioneer avr is downstairs. All of these speakers wired back to a closet in my master bedroom.
It'll be hard to run speaker wires from master bedroom to living room.

Any way for me to connect all of these speakers together but wireless from the AVR?
Do you have an idea how it was hook up before?
Honestly, I wouldn't even bother with the AVR in your livingroom. Just get a separate setup to go in your bedroom closet to drive all those speakers. Preferably a whole home audio distribution system. It will be much easier to implement and you'll likely be far happier with the functionality.
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post #14 of 21 Old 08-06-2015, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Montucky View Post
Honestly, I wouldn't even bother with the AVR in your livingroom. Just get a separate setup to go in your bedroom closet to drive all those speakers. Preferably a whole home audio distribution system. It will be much easier to implement and you'll likely be far happier with the functionality.
I was thinking another cheaper avr. It's on another floor, but across the whole floor. Would a 5.1 receiver be enough for 8 pairs of speaker or do I need 7.2?

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post #15 of 21 Old 08-06-2015, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenmastera View Post
I was thinking another cheaper avr. It's on another floor, but across the whole floor. Would a 5.1 receiver be enough for 8 pairs of speaker or do I need 7.2?
No need for a 5/7.1 AVR. A 2-channel stereo receiver will do the trick just fine, but sometimes you can honestly find regular multi-channel AVRs just as cheap. Keep in mind you'll only be using 2 channels, though.

You can either hook it up to something like this:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=8230
An 8-channel speaker selector (which has impedance matching), and only $28!
But you'll be pretty limited as far as functionality, ie independent volume control, etc.

Or go something like this route:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2
Pricier, but far more controllable.

Even pricier is something like the Niles/Russound offerings, but they are far more useful for a closet setup like yours since you can control them wirelessly with apps and such.
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post #16 of 21 Old 08-06-2015, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Montucky View Post
No need for a 5/7.1 AVR. A 2-channel stereo receiver will do the trick just fine, but sometimes you can honestly find regular multi-channel AVRs just as cheap. Keep in mind you'll only be using 2 channels, though.

You can either hook it up to something like this:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=8230
An 8-channel speaker selector (which has impedance matching), and only $28!
But you'll be pretty limited as far as functionality, ie independent volume control, etc.

Or go something like this route:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2
Pricier, but far more controllable.

Even pricier is something like the Niles/Russound offerings, but they are far more useful for a closet setup like yours since you can control them wirelessly with apps and such.
The volume controls has impedance matching so I won't need the selector.
I was planning to hook it all up to the new AVR. I just order one, Onkyo R593 mostly for streaming music etc.
Now I just have to figure out how to wire them together and where to connect on the new receiver.


Last edited by drunkenmastera; 08-06-2015 at 11:51 AM.
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post #17 of 21 Old 08-06-2015, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenmastera View Post
The volume controls has impedance matching so I won't need the selector.
I was planning to hook it all up to the new AVR. I just order one, Onkyo R593 mostly for streaming music etc.
Now I just have to figure out how to wire them together and where to connect on the new receiver.
It's great you have volume controls (sorry if I missed that detail before), but you're still going to want the speaker selector or connecting block to be able to easily and safely connect all your speakers to the two channels you'll be using on your AVR.

5.1/7.1 channels on your AVR doesn't mean you're going to get 5/7 channels putting out the same signal. You're basically going to want to split up your L/R speaker outputs which will be 2 channel sound. You should call the guys at AVS and they can direct you toward some great equipment that will work best for you.
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post #18 of 21 Old 08-06-2015, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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It's great you have volume controls (sorry if I missed that detail before), but you're still going to want the speaker selector or connecting block to be able to easily and safely connect all your speakers to the two channels you'll be using on your AVR.

5.1/7.1 channels on your AVR doesn't mean you're going to get 5/7 channels putting out the same signal. You're basically going to want to split up your L/R speaker outputs which will be 2 channel sound. You should call the guys at AVS and they can direct you toward some great equipment that will work best for you.
Someone mention earlier I can go that route. I don't feel like hooking up extra equipment.
Also, I notice your avatar and your location is Montana. We were looking to snowboard at big sky, but it's expensive. Also coming from Atl didn't help either. However, it's still in our plans.


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post #19 of 21 Old 08-06-2015, 01:54 PM
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Someone mention earlier I can go that route. I don't feel like hooking up extra equipment.
Also, I notice your avatar and your location is Montana. We were looking to snowboard at big sky, but it's expensive. Also coming from Atl didn't help either.
Ooh! You should TOTALLY come to Big Sky! It's my favorite resort on the planet. I am biased, but I'm serious too. That's actually where I am currently. But yeah, I'll admit. Airfare to get here isn't cheap unfortunately. For cheaper lodging, you should think about renting a vacation rental. Check out www.VRBO.com or my good friends at www.bookbigsky.com. PM me if you end up coming, and I can give you the inside scoop and perhaps I'll see you on the hill for a few turns!


Back on the original topic, I still think it'd be easiest to go with that selector or something similar. You COULD probably get away with splicing all your wires together and hooking them up to the AVR's L/R channels directly, but I'd be seriously concerned with damaging either your speakers or amplifier. Especially with having to rely on existing equipment of which I haven't tested myself and me trying to more safely give advice over the internet. Whichever way you go though, keep in mind that for every speaker you have tied into the same channel though, you are effectively cutting down the volume you'll get out of each one. By the time you're talking a dozen speakers, you're going to have to seriously crank the volume knob to get them to a listenable level, which could be very hard on your equipment.

Thus, if I were you, I'd probably go with your AVR connected to a separate multi-channel amp as recommended above to maintain good power to each speaker while minimizing any risk to your equipment. Personally, I'd want dedicated system like the Niles MRC-6430, as opposed to an AVR, but we're talking more money there. I know you don't want to buy any additional equipment, but that's kind of the most ideal thing for home-wide distributed audio like your house came with. I'd be curious what the former owners of your house were using in that closet.
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post #20 of 21 Old 08-06-2015, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Ooh! You should TOTALLY come to Big Sky! It's my favorite resort on the planet. I am biased, but I'm serious too. That's actually where I am currently. But yeah, I'll admit. Airfare to get here isn't cheap unfortunately. For cheaper lodging, you should think about renting a vacation rental. Check out www.VRBO.com or my good friends at www.bookbigsky.com. PM me if you end up coming, and I can give you the inside scoop and perhaps I'll see you on the hill for a few turns!


Back on the original topic, I still think it'd be easiest to go with that selector or something similar. You COULD probably get away with splicing all your wires together and hooking them up to the AVR's L/R channels directly, but I'd be seriously concerned with damaging either your speakers or amplifier. Especially with having to rely on existing equipment of which I haven't tested myself and me trying to more safely give advice over the internet. Whichever way you go though, keep in mind that for every speaker you have tied into the same channel though, you are effectively cutting down the volume you'll get out of each one. By the time you're talking a dozen speakers, you're going to have to seriously crank the volume knob to get them to a listenable level, which could be very hard on your equipment.

Thus, if I were you, I'd probably go with your AVR connected to a separate multi-channel amp as recommended above to maintain good power to each speaker while minimizing any risk to your equipment. Personally, I'd want dedicated system like the Niles MRC-6430, as opposed to an AVR, but we're talking more money there. I know you don't want to buy any additional equipment, but that's kind of the most ideal thing for home-wide distributed audio like your house came with. I'd be curious what the former owners of your house were using in that closet.
yeah I'm sure he was using some high end stuff since he yank it out. All the controls are niles audio brand. When you said avr connected to separate multi-channel amp like a monoprice 8 channel selector? I was thinking of connecting all the speakers to the monoprice and then wire it from there to the dedicated AVR which i just purchase separate for this due to streaming music. The one part I don't get is the connection from monoprice to avr, is it just straight audio cable and then banana plugs into the AVR?

As far as Snowboarding goes, I might take you up on that offer if Big sky ends up being the destination. Thanks for all your help!

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post #21 of 21 Old 08-10-2015, 01:12 PM
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Assuming that you are correct and the VC's are impedance matching, just use a distribution hub ILO a speaker selector.
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